Joy & Austin 23: Still Sticking Around

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

13 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

I think they realized the babies were breech, and decided to stay home anyway. Then they decided it was too much and went in for pain and the hospital for some unGodly reason did a C-section because people think that's how you get breech babies out.

 

That is how you get 9 + pound breach babies out, in fact that is how you get most breach babies out, safely.

[VBOY9977]

New promo video of Joy and Austin with Gideon when he was a newborn. I actually like Austin in this video a lot. I honestly don’t get the bad vibe other people get from him. 

https://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-austin-forsyth-fears-raising-newborn/

[SassyPants]

49 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

That is how you get 9 + pound breach babies out, in fact that is how you get most breach babies out, safely.

And are these lay midwives that the Duggar girls have used for care affiliated with MDs with admitting privledges? Are these ladies known patients? If not, how entitled can you be?

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

8 minutes ago, VBOY9977 said:

New promo video of Joy and Austin with Gideon when he was a newborn. I actually like Austin in this video a lot. I honestly don’t get the bad vibe other people get from him. 

https://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-austin-forsyth-fears-raising-newborn/

I don't get it either. While they are a very young couple they seem very well suited for each other.  They both like doing outdoor activities, they both like living in in the country, they are both down for hard work, neither is afraid of getting dirty, they have the same religious and political beliefs, both also seem to not mind living rough (ie the RV). He seems to care for her very much and she him.  I think they both have an odd sense of humor and enjoy poking fun at each other and just being silly. Neither of them are the mushy lovey dovey type.  JinJer are very mushy and both are very almost prissy in their appearance, and both enjoy dressing nicely and looking good and traveling.  Joy & Austin seem to be more homebodies who don't care so much about pretty packaging on their mates.  Doesn't mean they love each other less, they are just different.

[RainbowSky]

6 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

That is how you get 9 + pound breach babies out, in fact that is how you get most breach babies out, safely.

We're they transverse or breech? Transverse, yeah, they aren't really coming out easily without cutting. Breech as in just upside down? It's used a LOT. If supposedly only 4% of babies are breech, there's a shit ton of csections for that reason. Also Arkansas has one of the highest neonatal death rates in the country to begin with. Adding a risky surgery to it wouldn't be my first call either.

[VelociRapture]

3 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

We're they transverse or breech? Transverse, yeah, they aren't really coming out easily without cutting. Breech as in just upside down? It's used a LOT. If supposedly only 4% of babies are breech, there's a shit ton of csections for that reason. Also Arkansas has one of the highest neonatal death rates in the country to begin with. Adding a risky surgery to it wouldn't be my first call either.

Israel was transverse:

https://www.google.com/amp/s/people.com/tv/19-kids-and-counting-jill-duggar-derick-dillard-introduce-baby-israel-david/amp/

We have no clue what happened with Sam or why Jill needed a repeat c-section. It’s possible that Jill’s body just isn’t built for delivering babies vaginally or that her babies just really don’t want to come out. I believe the Forsyths did say that Gideon was breech though. Considering he was over 10 pounds it’s absolutely possible that Joy would not have been able to safely deliver a breech baby that size vaginally. 

[Daisy0322]

Depending on the type of heart decel. That can be a big risk for the baby. I technically chose a c-section due to heart decels and baby position. It wasn't worth the risks to me, they maybe felt the same when push came to shove so to speak. Ended up being a good thing because my ob said the way his head was he might've ended up a paraplegic if he was forced out vaginally. 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

it is also possible Joy had a failure to progress, if G was breach or transverse or head down and she's not built for vaginal births she may not have dilated past a certain point.  19 hours of not getting past a few cm would be just cause for a c/section. My sister labored for 15 hours and never got past 4 cm and was given a c/section and her baby was only 8 1/2 pounds and head down, and in the hospital after getting quality prenatal care.   

[Dandruff]

My aunt told me that her doctor recommended she smoke, while she was pregnant with my cousin, to help her relax.  Late 1950s.

I was just a little over 7 lbs, nearly two weeks late, my mom was tiny, and I was breech.  She had prenatal care, but they only figured out that she needed a c-section once she arrived at the hospital in active labor.

[Pecansforeveryone]

It's always been Jeremy who got on my nerves with his smug, preening, pseudu-intellectual ways. (Witness his preening about his club of expository preaching, I kid you not. They even came up with prep-school style badges. Oh Jeremy, bless your heart.) Austin has a viable skill set that has nothing to do with being a fundie preacher or under the control of Jim Bob. That's a definite positive in my book.

[spatulahandeddancer]

2 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

or that her babies just really don’t want to come out.

I don't blame them for that one...

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

2 hours ago, Dandruff said:

My aunt told me that her doctor recommended she smoke, while she was pregnant with my cousin, to help her relax.  Late 1950s.

I was just a little over 7 lbs, nearly two weeks late, my mom was tiny, and I was breech.  She had prenatal care, but they only figured out that she needed a c-section once she arrived at the hospital in active labor.

I had an u/s the night before my 1st was born, he was 4 weeks early and they didn't know if he was breach or not by feeling around so they did an u/s, he was head down and sunny side up.  

[JillyO]

16 hours ago, RainbowSky said:

We're they transverse or breech? Transverse, yeah, they aren't really coming out easily without cutting. Breech as in just upside down? It's used a LOT. If supposedly only 4% of babies are breech, there's a shit ton of csections for that reason. Also Arkansas has one of the highest neonatal death rates in the country to begin with. Adding a risky surgery to it wouldn't be my first call either.

Your statement is a complete logical fallacy if I've ever seen one. Saying that most breech babies are born via c-section does not mean that most babies born via c-section were breech.

Also, I'm the first person to say that the neonatal and (in particular!) maternal death rates in the U.S. are WAY too high (shamefully high!), but the last thing that's going to help there is avoiding proper prenatal care.

[VelociRapture]

14 hours ago, spatulahandeddancer said:

I don't blame them for that one...

I wrote that hoping someone would make a joke out of it. Thank you for not disappointing me. 

[just_ordinary]

3 hours ago, JillyO said:

Your statement is a complete logical fallacy if I've ever seen one. Saying that most breech babies are born via c-section does not mean that most babies born via c-section were breech.

Also, I'm the first person to say that the neonatal and (in particular!) maternal death rates in the U.S. are WAY too high (shamefully high!), but the last thing that's going to help there is avoiding proper prenatal care.

Exactly. As a European I am astonished how you all deal with, what I would say is insufficient prenatal care (or health care in general). Why would you ever choose to do even less is beyond me. 

On the breech topic- there is actually a hospital near me who specialises in breech vaginally deliveries. But they also try everything thing possible to turn the baby first (certain poses, moxibustion, external turning, acupuncture...). If nothing helps there are tons of tests were your pelvis and the baby gets measured extensively. Based on the data they decide if you are a good candidate even as first time mom.

This only works because our monthly and from the 32nd week fortnightly check ups hardly leave a chance to miss a breech baby. 

The hospital has very good rates but of course this is partly because they only try it with promising candidates (like our home birth rates are great because no midwife or doctor attends a home birth when there are concerns).

So while I absolutely support vaginally deliveries of breech babies and home births- I think you are stupid if you go into a situation like this without extensive care (and from what I read on this board- I wouldn’t feel save doing it in the US).

[HarryPotterFan]

On 9/10/2018 at 6:46 AM, SweetJuly said:

"Don't worry, you'll stretch enough" ?

Ah, to be a glamorous pregnant lady in the 1950s when everything was graceful and elegant, and your obstetrician would suit up to check on your knitting labouring self!

I haven’t watched it yet since I’m sitting in an airport, but this sounds like something my grandma needs to see. She still talks about how broad my dad’s shoulders were when he was born.

[Born Skeptic]

just-ordinary

I think you have some misconceptions about standard American pre-natal care.  Below are the recommendations of the US Department of Health and Human Services.  https://www.womenshealth.gov/pregnancy/youre-pregnant-now-what/prenatal-care-and-tests  Most Pregnant women in the US receive care that follows these guidelines.  Very few, like the Duggar women, choose less comprehensive care.

“During pregnancy, regular checkups are very important. This consistent care can help keep you and your baby healthy, spot problems if they occur, and prevent problems during delivery. Typically, routine checkups occur:

Once each month for weeks four through 28

Twice a month for weeks 28 through 36

Weekly for weeks 36 to birth

Women with high-risk pregnancies need to see their doctors more often.

At your first visit your doctor will perform a full physical exam, take your blood for lab tests, and calculate your due date. Your doctor might also do a breast exam, a pelvic exam to check your uterus (womb), and a cervical exam, including a Pap test. During this first visit, your doctor will ask you lots of questions about your lifestyle, relationships, and health habits. It's important to be honest with your doctor.

After the first visit, most prenatal visits will include:

Checking your blood pressure and weight

Checking the baby's heart rate

Measuring your abdomen to check your baby's growth

You also will have some routine tests throughout your pregnancy, such as tests to look for anemia, tests to measure risk of gestational diabetes, and tests to look for harmful infections.

Become a partner with your doctor to manage your care. Keep all of your appointments — every one is important! Ask questions and read to educate yourself about this exciting time.”

“Tests are used during pregnancy to check your and your baby's health. At your fist prenatal visit, your doctor will use tests to check for a number of things, such as:

Your blood type and Rh factor

Anemia

Infections, such as toxoplasmosis and sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including hepatitis B, syphilis, chlamydia, and HIV

Signs that you are immune to rubella (German measles) and chicken pox

Throughout your pregnancy, your doctor or midwife may suggest a number of other tests, too. Some tests are suggested for all women, such as screenings for gestational diabetes, Down syndrome, and HIV. Other tests might be offered based on your:

Age

Personal or family health history

Ethnic background

Results of routine tests

Some tests are screening tests. They detect risks for or signs of possible health problems in you or your baby. Based on screening test results, your doctor might suggest diagnostic tests. Diagnostic tests confirm or rule out health problems in you or your baby. “

 

I won’t list all of the tests and screenings specifically, but they are available through that link.  Again MOST American women follow this schedule.

[Rachel333]

3 hours ago, JillyO said:

Your statement is a complete logical fallacy if I've ever seen one. Saying that most breech babies are born via c-section does not mean that most babies born via c-section were breech.

Also, I'm the first person to say that the neonatal and (in particular!) maternal death rates in the U.S. are WAY too high (shamefully high!), but the last thing that's going to help there is avoiding proper prenatal care.

And C-sections improve mortality rates for breech babies. That doesn't mean every breech baby needs a C-section but it makes no sense to say that you should avoid C-sections for breech babies to avoid adding to mortality rates.

[HarryPotterFan]

17 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Jill’s body just isn’t built for delivering babies vaginally or that her babies just really don’t want to come out

 

15 hours ago, spatulahandeddancer said:

I don't blame them for that one...

Damn, you beat me to it! They know what they’re being born into and want to stay where it’s safe from preaching assholes

[just_ordinary]

26 minutes ago, Born Skeptic said:

just-ordinary

I think you have some misconceptions about standard American pre-natal care.  Below are the recommendations of the US Department of Health and Human Services.  https://www.womenshealth.gov/pregnancy/youre-pregnant-now-what/prenatal-care-and-tests  Most Pregnant women in the US receive care that follows these guidelines.  Very few, like the Duggar women, choose less comprehensive care.

“During pregnancy, regular checkups are very important. This consistent care can help keep you and your baby healthy, spot problems if they occur, and prevent problems during delivery. Typically, routine checkups occur:

Once each month for weeks four through 28

Twice a month for weeks 28 through 36

Weekly for weeks 36 to birth

Women with high-risk pregnancies need to see their doctors more often.

At your first visit your doctor will perform a full physical exam, take your blood for lab tests, and calculate your due date. Your doctor might also do a breast exam, a pelvic exam to check your uterus (womb), and a cervical exam, including a Pap test. During this first visit, your doctor will ask you lots of questions about your lifestyle, relationships, and health habits. It's important to be honest with your doctor.

After the first visit, most prenatal visits will include:

Checking your blood pressure and weight

Checking the baby's heart rate

Measuring your abdomen to check your baby's growth

You also will have some routine tests throughout your pregnancy, such as tests to look for anemia, tests to measure risk of gestational diabetes, and tests to look for harmful infections.

Become a partner with your doctor to manage your care. Keep all of your appointments — every one is important! Ask questions and read to educate yourself about this exciting time.”

“Tests are used during pregnancy to check your and your baby's health. At your fist prenatal visit, your doctor will use tests to check for a number of things, such as:

Your blood type and Rh factor

Anemia

Infections, such as toxoplasmosis and sexually transmitted infections (STIs), including hepatitis B, syphilis, chlamydia, and HIV

Signs that you are immune to rubella (German measles) and chicken pox

Throughout your pregnancy, your doctor or midwife may suggest a number of other tests, too. Some tests are suggested for all women, such as screenings for gestational diabetes, Down syndrome, and HIV. Other tests might be offered based on your:

Age

Personal or family health history

Ethnic background

Results of routine tests

Some tests are screening tests. They detect risks for or signs of possible health problems in you or your baby. Based on screening test results, your doctor might suggest diagnostic tests. Diagnostic tests confirm or rule out health problems in you or your baby. “

 

I won’t list all of the tests and screenings specifically, but they are available through that link.  Again MOST American women follow this schedule.

THANK YOU! 

This really helped in clearing some of my misunderstandings of your prenatal care!

That is something I really like about FJ in general. You can learn so much from people that actually live in that country and you hear about first hand experiences.

[wandering woman]

It is hard to believe I'm saying this, but I kind of like Austin. He comes across as more intelligent and articulate than any of the other Duggar sons or SILs. I'm sure he is chauvinistic and sexist, but he comes across OK on TV.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

@Born Skeptic - Seriously, once a month starting at four weeks? Is that dating from your last period? My doctor didn’t want to see me until ten weeks after my last period (unfortunately, I never made it to ten weeks).

[justoneoftwo]

15 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

@Born Skeptic - Seriously, once a month starting at four weeks? Is that dating from your last period? My doctor didn’t want to see me until ten weeks after my last period (unfortunately, I never made it to ten weeks).

Same, but after that it was once a month as listed.

[Runningfromreality]

21 minutes ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

@Born Skeptic - Seriously, once a month starting at four weeks? Is that dating from your last period? My doctor didn’t want to see me until ten weeks after my last period (unfortunately, I never made it to ten weeks).

I've been once a month since 8 weeks. 4 weeks from LMP is when most people find out they're pregnant! I did go to my primary doctor for blood test confirmation around 4 weeks though. 

[spatulahandeddancer]

6 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I wrote that hoping someone would make a joke out of it. Thank you for not disappointing me. 

I aims to please!  I was surprised that no one beat me to it ? @HarryPotterFan, you can have the next one!