Joy & Austin 23: Still Sticking Around

[libgirl2]

40 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

No, I don't think it was. Jinger seemed scared of giving birth and likely wanted the reassurance. 

Joy is drunk on the kool aid. As is Austin.

I think Jeremy had some input into it. 

[melon]

I had 3 big babies,8lbs 15oz,9lbs 7 and 3/4 oz and 10lbs 4oz.Relatively easy.All vaginal births,but did need an episiotomy(sp?) each time.Longest labor about 19 hours,then 12 ,and then 7 hours.

Avoid having a baby when the moon is full..lol.Second son,I labored most of the time,alone,in the labor room...busy,busy.

My mother stayed with me in the labor room with my last one.She said "Melon,you have such easy time".She had 4 c-sections.Actually,she said with my younger brother,her fourth child,when they made the incision for the c section...my brother was visible,I think her uterus had thinned.She claimed it could have ruptured.

[Baxter]

I suspect with Jinger that she was nervous about giving birth and Jeremy wanted to make sure that she got proper medical care. That being said, I'm sure that if Jeremy had said it was perfectly fine for her to have a home birth since women have been giving birth at home forever then it wouldn't have mattered what Jinger's feelings were. She would have gone along with what he said that he wanted. It's just good that he clearly thinks proper medical care is important. But he could have thought that without Jinger being worried about child birth. We don't really know.

[Iamtheway]

9 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

I still wonder about the 40h labour of Jill. 40h seems like pure hell, or did she count from the very first contraction? Normally people count from regular (1h+) and intensifying contractions  about 10min (or even 2-3min) apart onwards. Or the water breaking depending on what happens first. The water breaking or the 2-3 minute range is when people (here) normally go to hospital and that is when the clock starts ticking. Water break with no contractions does still not count as active labour I think. No way someone would get up to 40h. Even in a home birth every midwife would sent you to hospital way before that. With 40h I see her (and her body) being too exhausted pushing out a baby without help anyway even if it would have been a tiny baby in perfect position.

Me seeing this thread was hot: Oh no Joy! But it’s just talk about baby #1. 

I had 53 hours between my water breaking and Miniway coming out. I had contractions the whole time, 5-7 minutes apart for the first two days. The water broke at 4am so I hadn’t had that much sleep and 44 hours later I was so tired they gave me an epidural to give me some rest and induced me to get the labour speeding up. So it probably wouldn’t count as 53 hours of active labour. But pfht! Count schmount. The first 44 hours were no freaking walk in the park. 

[SamiKatz]

53 minutes ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I've said it before, but I don't think Gideon & Izzy were breach, it was just an excuse for the c/section.  It is much more acceptable to have a c/section for a breach baby than because you aren't womanly enough to deliver vaginally, at least in the fundy cults like Joy & Jill are part of.  Hopefully Joy, or Austin learned their lesson and the next Forsythe offspring will be born in the hospital, WITH proper medical care, either by a REAL midwife or a real doctor, not that quack they see occasionally.  

I think I'm missing something here.  Are you saying they decided to  have a c/section after long labors, and covered that up by saying the babies were breach?  Sincere question as I know with Joy there is video of her in labor and while I don't have kids so I don't really know these things, I would think that a planned c/section would need to be prearranged and am doubtful the hospital would have allowed them to begin labor.

It's possible I'm just having a moment here though.

[Dandruff]

56 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

No, I don't think it was. Jinger seemed scared of giving birth and likely wanted the reassurance. 

Joy is drunk on the kool aid. As is Austin.

I suspect Jill encouraged her daughter buddy to go for a home birth, while Jinger had some distance from the idiocy.

Joy and Austin, along with his family, appear to make good $$ off the kool aid.  I agree that they seem drunk on it though.

[ViolaSebastian]

I'd think that making it sound like they had breaches that went undetected would be an unfair thing to do to a midwife. The midwives in both incidents have rightly come under a lot of fire for failing to note that the babies were breach. I would think it'd be legally actionable to lie on national television and make it look like one has a shit medical provider, when in fact they were competent. 

[Tatar-tot]

I think Jill was the midwife through our the pregnancies and the licensed one was brought in by TLC at the end.  

[VelociRapture]

7 minutes ago, Tatar-tot said:

I think Jill was the midwife through our the pregnancies and the licensed one was brought in by TLC at the end.  

Except a blonde midwife was shown in an earlier episode providing some sort of prenatal care and a blonde midwife was shown using a Doppler on Joy during the delivery. It’s very likely the same woman in both episodes. So she wasn’t brought in just for the delivery.

[metheglyn]

4 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Except a blonde midwife was shown in an earlier episode providing some sort of prenatal care and a blonde midwife was shown using a Doppler on Joy during the delivery. It’s very likely the same woman in both episodes. So she wasn’t brought in just for the delivery.

During that appointment shown on screen there were implications Joy had seen her at least once previously, but it's not clear how LONG Joy had been seeing her. So she may have only entered the picture late in the game and Jill may have provided "care" for much of Joy's pregnancy. But I agree, she'd definitely been around for at least a couple weeks by the time Joy had the baby and may have been caring for Joy even longer than that. We just don't know.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

9 minutes ago, SamiKatz said:

I think I'm missing something here.  Are you saying they decided to  have a c/section after long labors, and covered that up by saying the babies were breach?  Sincere question as I know with Joy there is video of her in labor and while I don't have kids so I don't really know these things, I would think that a planned c/section would need to be prearranged and am doubtful the hospital would have allowed them to begin labor.

It's possible I'm just having a moment here though.

Yes and no, they didn't plan the c/section, and yes planned c/sections are prearranged.  I think they (Jill & Joy) discovered after many hours that they weren't going to have vaginal deliveries and used the "baby flipped breach" as an excuse.  I could be wrong I'm forming this assumption on thought that it is rare for babies to turn naturally after 37 weeks, and even more rare for them to flip during labor.  There really is too much missing information to say for sure if they are being misleading and stupid or honest and stupid. 

[karen77]

Joy still hasn't updated us with the promised update....has she?

[mstee]

I had active labor for about 32 hours aka painful, regular contractions. I labored at home for the marjority (per my CNM’s advice) and was able to eat/drink to keep my energy up. So it’s totally possible that Joy had an active long labor. But I have a very hard time understanding why Joy skipped out on prenatal care after the mess Jill was in. And they have big babies. It’s just so irresponsible. I’m glad that so far that all the girls and their  babies have been okay but it just seems like they are playing with fire (sans Jinger). 

[Mama Mia]

4 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I've said it before, but I don't think Gideon & Izzy were breach, it was just an excuse for the c/section.  It is much more acceptable to have a c/section for a breach baby than because you aren't womanly enough to deliver vaginally, at least in the fundy cults like Joy & Jill are part of.  Hopefully Joy, or Austin learned their lesson and the next Forsythe offspring will be born in the hospital, WITH proper medical care, either by a REAL midwife or a real doctor, not that quack they see occasionally.  

God, I get tired of saying this, but it really pisses me off. Sometimes they turn in labor. Mine did. And I was at a hospital. With a Doctor. It can happen. JFC. And stop spreading bullshit .

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

1 hour ago, Mama Mia said:

God, I get tired of saying this, but it really pisses me off. Sometimes they turn in labor. Mine did. And I was at a hospital. With a Doctor. It can happen. JFC. And stop spreading bullshit .

Pardon me, I said it was unusual (and it is) not impossible. Reading comprehension is all of our friends.  

[Mama Mia]

1 minute ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

Pardon me, I said it was unusual (and it is) not impossible, since I also mentioned that my mother told us that my brother flipped twice during her labor. Try reading for context before jumping someone and calling their post bullshit.

I read for context. You strongly implying that someone is faking something simply because it’s unusual, or rare, is bullshit. That’s why I called it bullshit. It’s also really demeaning to women to tell them that their birth experiences aren’t valid because they don’t fit your textbook definition of “normal”. Labor and birth vary greatly from woman to woman and also from birth to birth. 

 

[Rachel333]

Maybe it's naive of me, but I doubt they would decide together to outright lie about something like that. Stretch the truth, hide things, convince themselves that what they're saying is the truth, sure, but outright lie? That's very much against their beliefs, and I doubt several very devout people like them would decide together (as opposed to someone like Josh lying on his own) to violate their beliefs with a blatant lie.

And again, that's not to say that religious people never lie--I know very well that isn't true!--I just have a hard time seeing it in this particular situation.

[MsSaylor]

I think the more likely scenario is that the babies were breach the whole time and they didnt realize until labor wasnt progressing as expected.   

[JillyO]

7 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I think it all depends on the inner opening of Joy's pelvis, any existing medical issues with mom or baby, and luck I suppose. 

My family has huge babies and everyone has a crazy easy labor. I was nine and a half pounds and my mom's smallest baby. My sister was 11 lbs and my brother was 12 freaking pounds*. She had an uneventful natural birth with each one of us and was ready to go home right afterwards (and was furious that they expected her to stay the night at the hospital). 

My mom is also thin and 5'7", so not super big. That woman was just designed to give Michelle Duggar a run for her money (but thankfully, used common sense and didn't). 

 

*My brother is not the record holder for biggest baby in the extended family. And no one has ever been diagnosed with gestational diabetes. ?

Same here. My brother was 9 1/2 pounds and I was almost 10. My mom is 5'4" and probably weighed 120 pounds pre-pregnancy. No gestational diabetes and two uneventful vaginal births. Mom actually did go home a few hours after each birth (didn't stay the night in the hospital either time, and I was born at 7pm). You couldn't pay that woman to spend a night in the hospital if she doesn't absolutely have to.

I just hope I have her good birthing genes (although I wouldn't mind if my babies come out a little smaller ?)!

[just_ordinary]

This whole discussion made me rewatched the episode (on YT) and maybe I didn’t pay enough attention or the upload was not complete- there never was a word of the baby turning in labour. Joy said- it was realised the baby was breach. On the fan blog is nothing on the baby turning either- just that it was breech. Where exactly did we get the info from that Gideon turned in labour?

Also- we have no idea from what point on the midwife was at the birth. Maybe they called her after some time and she detected the breech position? Never trust the shown timeline. We saw Joy having at least one midwife appointment (that I won’t go into because that sugar level check up is a joke- Level to high? Get a real test not a drop of blood from the finger!) but have no idea if she received regular (as in at least once per month) prenatal care.

The 39week induction seemed very much like Jinger‘s idea. She wasn’t too comfortable with the whole birth scenario in other episodes. That is why many counted on her to be the first to go to hospital from the start.

 I feel like Kendra, Queen of Giggles, might get more screen time in the future. She is like the bubbly counterpart to Jessa and I believe people respond well to her sweet ways. Also the decisions around her birth and her demeanour on honeymoon make her look much better to „normal“ heathens compared to the Duggars.

[DMouse007]

7 hours ago, Mama Mia said:

I read for context. You strongly implying that someone is faking something simply because it’s unusual, or rare, is bullshit. That’s why I called it bullshit. It’s also really demeaning to women to tell them that their birth experiences aren’t valid because they don’t fit your textbook definition of “normal”. Labor and birth vary greatly from woman to woman and also from birth to birth. 

 

I had unstable lie with my 5th baby.  For anyone that doesn't know, that is a possibility when you have had multiple pregnancies and your uterus gets the arse with it all.  I was hoping for another homebirth (I managed it with my 4th, but only with him) and was seeing the midwife weekly.  Baby was breech at 38 weeks, so that required a scan to confirm, although I had a midwife willing to homebirth with a breech.  She had turned the next day, but then the next day decided transverse was the way to go, and that was another scan.  My waters started leaking the next day, and she was back to breech when checked, so that was another bloody scan.  My waters broke the next day, and the monkey was head down (thankfully, as one complication is cord prolapse).  Labour was induced the next day as I was having no contractions (a pattern with all my girls) and thankfully she stayed head down until she emerged Superman style.  That was fun.

 

[Ali]

My daughter turned from breech to head down somewhere around 35 weeks. I was in a great amount of pain when it happened and she was under 5 pounds at that point. I ended up going to the hospital because I thought I might be in preterm labor and felt fine by the time I got there. The position was confirmed by ultrasound before and after she turned. I suspect that they are probably not getting good prenatal care.

[Mama Mia]

6 hours ago, DMouse007 said:

I had unstable lie with my 5th baby.  For anyone that doesn't know, that is a possibility when you have had multiple pregnancies and your uterus gets the arse with it all.  I was hoping for another homebirth (I managed it with my 4th, but only with him) and was seeing the midwife weekly.  Baby was breech at 38 weeks, so that required a scan to confirm, although I had a midwife willing to homebirth with a breech.  She had turned the next day, but then the next day decided transverse was the way to go, and that was another scan.  My waters started leaking the next day, and she was back to breech when checked, so that was another bloody scan.  My waters broke the next day, and the monkey was head down (thankfully, as one complication is cord prolapse).  Labour was induced the next day as I was having no contractions (a pattern with all my girls) and thankfully she stayed head down until she emerged Superman style.  That was fun.

 

Superman Style ! Yikes! That’s PAINFUL! One of mine was that fist out ( and flying upside down to boot ) and now I’m stealing that phrase. I suspect I must have had a wonky shaped uterus as all of mine had some sort of positioning issue.  You have my sympathies for Your Superman delivery.

[Born Skeptic]

5 hours ago, Ali said:

My daughter turned from breech to head down somewhere around 35 weeks. I was in a great amount of pain when it happened and she was under 5 pounds at that point. I ended up going to the hospital because I thought I might be in preterm labor and felt fine by the time I got there. The position was confirmed by ultrasound before and after she turned. I suspect that they are probably not getting good prenatal care.

It really depends on the mother.  Some moms feel a great deal of pain when the baby turns late in pregnancy, some feel none.  One of my kids was breech at 38 weeks and my (high risk) OB scheduled me for an in-hospital external version.  Both his medical assistant and receptionist told me to come to the hospital prepared to deliver because it was so painful most mothers went into labor.  The medical student at the hospital told me the same thing.  The doctor turned the baby and I felt absolutely nothing.  When I went in for my next weekly checkup, the rascal had turned breech again - and again I had felt nothing.  I was readmitted to the hospital for another external version (again no pain) followed by an immediate induction.  The baby was 8 lbs 6 oz.  I am 5 feet tall on a good day and was just under 100 lbs pre pregnancy.  Some babies can and do turn without the mother noticing.

[MoonFace]

20 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I'd think that making it sound like they had breaches that went undetected would be an unfair thing to do to a midwife. The midwives in both incidents have rightly come under a lot of fire for failing to note that the babies were breach. I would think it'd be legally actionable to lie on national television and make it look like one has a shit medical provider, when in fact they were competent. 

It's been many years since I've been pregnant - but I thought they could detect that babies were breech and they could try flipping them before the mom went in to labor - or they would try flipping them once in labor?    Please correct me if I am wrong. 

Also, I do understand that sometimes babies will flip rather quickly on their own?