Joy & Austin 23: Still Sticking Around

[ViolaSebastian]

4 hours ago, MoonFace said:

It's been many years since I've been pregnant - but I thought they could detect that babies were breech and they could try flipping them before the mom went in to labor - or they would try flipping them once in labor?    Please correct me if I am wrong. 

Also, I do understand that sometimes babies will flip rather quickly on their own?   

They can detect it, which is what makes Joy and Jill’s reason for having long-ass labors that ended in c-sections a bit sketchy. So either a midwife didn’t notice it, the sisters knew and wanted to try a breach birth, or it’s a lie on their part. I personally think they knew and wanted to go for it against all sane advice. 

[melon]

5 hours ago, MoonFace said:

It's been many years since I've been pregnant - but I thought they could detect that babies were breech and they could try flipping them before the mom went in to labor - or they would try flipping them once in labor?    Please correct me if I am wrong. 

Also, I do understand that sometimes babies will flip rather quickly on their own?   

My oldest was head first but sunny side up.The doctor tried to turn him,he would not move.I know it isn't exactly the same as a breach birth.When I would go in for check ups,a few times,my baby was breach.My doctor said they would do a C section,if my baby did not turn.

[NotQuiteMotY]

On 9/4/2018 at 8:26 PM, Mama Mia said:

God, I get tired of saying this, but it really pisses me off. Sometimes they turn in labor. Mine did. And I was at a hospital. With a Doctor. It can happen. JFC. And stop spreading bullshit .

Had anyone actually said it can't? All the comments I've been reading in this thread and elsewhere are that it's rare, not impossible. I may have missed one, though, I admit.

I suspect in Jill and Joy's cases the babies were breach and no one realized, given their apparent disregard for medical care and the babies' sizes. Yes, Joy had a non-Jill midwife there, but do we have any idea of her competency, her training, or how involved she was compared to Jill? Plus, I doubt they had a positioning ultrasound beforehand; apparently more OBs are ordering those late in the pregnancy because it's easy to mix up a bony butt with a head using manual palpation.

As far as length of labor, I'm starting to think everyone counts it differently! I'm never sure how to count mine with Little NQ's. Do I start counting from Sunday, when I started getting contractions that actually felt like mild contractions but never settled into a regular or escalating pattern? From Monday, when the doc hooked me up to a Pitocin drip but nothing more happened than those same occasional, mild contractions? Or from early Tuesday, when my water broke and I basically catapulted into transition and had my son less than three hours later? Depending on which, my "labor" could have been anywhere from two days to two hours.

[nst]

15 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

They can detect it, which is what makes Joy and Jill’s reason for having long-ass labors that ended in c-sections a bit sketchy. So either a midwife didn’t notice it, the sisters knew and wanted to try a breach birth, or it’s a lie on their part. I personally think they knew and wanted to go for it against all sane advice. 

and again probably because joy was part of jill's buddy team only wanted jill's opinion

and wanted to follow in her footsteps 

[Carm_88]

59 minutes ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

I suspect in Jill and Joy's cases the babies were breach and no one realized, given their apparent disregard for medical care and the babies' sizes.

That was always the thing that I found quite odd, with how overdue Israel was and how large, it seems odd that he would have flipped so late in the game. I don't think they said that Gideon flipped, but that he was breach. With how large Gideon was, I don't think he had any room to move about. Completely possible? Yes. Probable? That's uncertain. 

The Duggar women need to get proper medical care because there are such large babies in their families. 

[Daisy0322]

1 hour ago, NotQuiteMotY said:

As far as length of labor, I'm starting to think everyone counts it differently! 

My doc said starting at regular contractions at 5 minute intervals for and hour is when she starts counting or when the waters break whichever comes first. I'm not sure if that's universal though. 

[DMouse007]

3 minutes ago, Daisy0322 said:

My doc said starting at regular contractions at 5 minute intervals for and hour is when she starts counting or when the waters break whichever comes first. I'm not sure if that's universal though. 

With all of mine, my waters broke long before contractions started.  My labour was counted as active by the midwives pretty much from when I asked for gas and air, because they left me alone to walk the corridors until I wanted the pain relief to get things moving.  As it turned out, I was always around 4-5 cm at that point, and the baby flew out a couple of hours later - I've never had a long labour, but they have all been very intense.

If counting started from when my waters went, my labours were 52 hours, 55 hours, 98 hours, 24 hours, and 37 hours.  But really, I wouldn't say any were over 5 hours from first contraction (natural or induced) to placenta delivery.  

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

12 minutes ago, DMouse007 said:

With all of mine, my waters broke long before contractions started.  My labour was counted as active by the midwives pretty much from when I asked for gas and air, because they left me alone to walk the corridors until I wanted the pain relief to get things moving.  As it turned out, I was always around 4-5 cm at that point, and the baby flew out a couple of hours later - I've never had a long labour, but they have all been very intense.

If counting started from when my waters went, my labours were 52 hours, 55 hours, 98 hours, 24 hours, and 37 hours.  But really, I wouldn't say any were over 5 hours from first contraction (natural or induced) to placenta delivery.  

With my 1st my water broke 4 hours before the Pitocin started, if I went by that my 1st labor was 26 hours not the 22 I tell people. I had one very long very intense labor and one c/section. I've heard that short labors can be very intense, a friend of mine had 2 babies in less than 3 hours between the 2 labors.  She said that that 90 minutes was the most incredible pain she'd ever experienced. 

Our oldest kids are 3 days apart, and while she looked like Kate Middleton at church that following Sunday I looked like I'd been hit by a train. Busted blood vessels in my eyes and face, puffy & swollen from all the IV fluid and the water retention from the pregnancy, 

[karen77]

With my 1st, my water broke (lightly) about 12 hrs before we started pitocin... she just wasn't getting going (they let me "sleep" at the hospital overnight to see if my body would start on it's own...nope!)

#2, water broke (Niagra Falls style) and contractions started within an hour or so.. BUT looking back, I'd been having fairly regular (what I thought were) Braxton Hicks all day.

[JingerSnaps]

I was a naturally born footling breech. I was almost born in the elevator going to get X-rays to see my position. My mom let them know I wasn’t waiting since I was sticking my feet out. My mom swears that I was a faster and easier birth than my sister who was sunny side up. 

[DMouse007]

21 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

With my 1st my water broke 4 hours before the Pitocin started, if I went by that my 1st labor was 26 hours not the 22 I tell people. I had one very long very intense labor and one c/section. I've heard that short labors can be very intense, a friend of mine had 2 babies in less than 3 hours between the 2 labors.  She said that that 90 minutes was the most incredible pain she'd ever experienced. 

Our oldest kids are 3 days apart, and while she looked like Kate Middleton at church that following Sunday I looked like I'd been hit by a train. Busted blood vessels in my eyes and face, puffy & swollen from all the IV fluid and the water retention from the pregnancy, 

I have always been pretty lucky.  My feet and ankles swell a little after birth,  but otherwise, if you saw me and didn't see the baby, you wouldn't know I'd just had one (unless you saw me before I gave birth - I was large enough to have moons in orbit around me).  I pushed for 45 minutes with my first, but the rest were just 3-4 pushes.

I found that I had a lot of double peaked contractions with all of them, and with my last, those were also just 30 secs apart as soon as I hit 4-5cm.  I think I would far prefer to have them spread out over 10-12 hours in a more manageable style than to have it all compressed in to a shorter time.  I had to lay off the gas and air for a bit as the contractions were so thick and fast I wasn't getting enough oxygen in the short breaks I had, so I had to do a few contractions without it.  There was some swearing at that point.

[Knight of Ni]

Hearing all these birth stories makes me think I got off easy with a C-section. I had minimal pain and was up and walking almost as soon as they took out the catheter. I feel like I’m almost as scared of natural birth as Joy was of a C-section. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

53 minutes ago, Knight of Ni said:

and was up and walking almost as soon as they took out the catheter.

LOL - I had to walk from the delivery room to the recovery room immediately after a vaginal birth.

[Daisy0322]

3 hours ago, Knight of Ni said:

Hearing all these birth stories makes me think I got off easy with a C-section. I had minimal pain and was up and walking almost as soon as they took out the catheter. I feel like I’m almost as scared of natural birth as Joy was of a C-section. 

I had an emergency c-section after 41 hours of active labor and 3 hours pushing I'd STILL to that any day over the c-section. I don't know why but I was traumatized as fuck from my c-section. 

 

ETA: on second thought it was the being paralyzed and not able to move or feel people touching me that was absolutely horrific. Plus I got stitches for the c-section and vaginally because I'm just that lucky. My doc actually told me it was one of the roughest labors and deliverys she'd seen. She said she wants me to do a vbac next time though because everything was apprently the perfect shit storm of random occurrences that caused the c-section. 

[mango_fandango]

I was spine-to-spine/sunny side up (guessing that’s what it means). My poor mother. Plus an episiotomy was not enough for my giant head. 

My brother was more of a normal delivery... except he was “spotty” at birth and needed antibiotics, at one point he had to go to the special care baby unit (just a brief visit). Then, as he was about to be discharged, the nurse was giving him oral medication when he suddenly started going blue... thankfully it cleared up pretty quickly. My jaundice probably seemed like a breeze in comparison to that worrying period! We’re both fine now by the way. No one ever really knew what was wrong with my brother either. 

[Daisy0322]

13 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

. No one ever really knew what was wrong with my brother either. 

When the fetal circulation changes to typical at the time of cord clamping approx. 25 percent of people have a PDA shunt. Sometimes it takes longer for that to correct and sometimes it never does (usually its asymptomatic). I'm not saying that's what it was by any means but it's a possibility. My point is there's quite a few things that sometimes lag post birth like that. PDAs tend to be a common one I see. 

[just_ordinary]

On 9/7/2018 at 7:59 PM, Daisy0322 said:

I had an emergency c-section after 41 hours of active labor and 3 hours pushing I'd STILL to that any day over the c-section. I don't know why but I was traumatized as fuck from my c-section. 

That is something I am a bit concerned about. If there is the need for a c-section I would rather go into it without being physically and probably mentally worn out completely. I believe that this might make a massive difference in recovery. I also believe this is true for every bigger surgery.

But you never know how things will go. There is just one thing for sure. The baby will come out- one way or the other.

[Daisy0322]

2 hours ago, just_ordinary said:

That is something I am a bit concerned about. If there is the need for a c-section I would rather go into it without being physically and probably mentally worn out completely. I believe that this might make a massive difference in recovery. I also believe this is true for every bigger surgery.

But you never know how things will go. There is just one thing for sure. The baby will come out- one way or the other.

That's true... I think past events in my life made me a lot more vulnerable to being upset by it. I know many people who (while it was major surgery) felt just fine about thier csection. However from a medical standpoint yes, going through a rough labor prior does make it harder to recover. Recovery wasn't hateful for me once I stopped having anxiety attacks and refusing to get out of bed. About a week after I was able to go for short walks and got around pretty well. 

[felicitysbow]

Had my first baby nearly 50 years ago.  I'd put on about 50 pounds during the pregnancy, mainly through eating everything and anything and was 3 weeks overdue when I was taken in to the small maternity hospital in our seaside town.  I was given a large glass of castor oil topped with orange squash ("to take away the taste, dear"), the single most beastly thing I've ever swallowed, followed by a full roast pork dinner with all the trimmings and then plums and custard.  By the time the castor oil had worked its noisome way through my system the actual birth itself was a piece of cake - just as well as I had not attended any prenatal classes - just 5 minute check ups at the docs each month.

I spent 2 weeks in the maternity hospital, not because I was ill but because that is what was done then.  Babies were trundled into the little wards at 4 hourly intervals during the day to be fed (or to be shown off to their dads when they were allowed to visit in the evening) and then taken off to the nursery.  It wasn't till I got home that I realised that babies did not sleep all night long....  Thank goodness my lovely mum came and stayed with us for a month afterwards

[PVMom]

It isn't the fundy way to disparage anyone so I'm thinking they'd never say anything negative about this midwife experience.   I'm guessing though,  behind closed doors Austin and Joy are saying the same things we are....."How the heck could that midwife let me labor with a 10 lb baby and not know he was breech?".     Joy's the one who went thru all that pain and Austin the one trained to be an EMT watched it all.   I bet this topic is a regular conversation for those two.    I think Austin does have a head on his shoulders and I'm just guessing a doctor will be involved with their future births.   Plus Kendra and Jinger had legit successful hospital births, I think they will think differently with this experience and age and maturation on their side.

Austin doesn't bother me at all.   He's a worker bee and doesn't throw his opinion around unless asked for it.   When Joy says something stupid, he gently re-works it.  He flips houses for a LIVING.   Basically that means when one house is done, he doesn't get income unless that house SELLS.   So buying, fixing and selling is what they do for a LIVING.   The life of a young flipping family means they live in the houses they flip.   They live in them usually while they are being flipped and they have no income until it sells.   So when he's pushing for 2 months what he's saying is....we need the money, this is our income to eat.   Until they've reached the point where they can afford to own their own home and have the income to buy and sell another house to flip, he makes no money until that house sells.   I'm guessing not too many Freejinger families could live multiple months without any income.    This is why Austin has to pressure her to move.   So he has money to support them!

Also, Joy is 20.   Most 20 year olds are sharing a tiny dorm room half the size of that RV!    We act like just because she has given birth she should be living in a real house, grown up style with all the comforts and conveniences of years of hard work and maturity.    She's 20.   She's chosen to raise a child at the age of 20.    These are the compromises you have to make when you have children before being financially stable.    You live in an RV, you flip a house and you move even with a young infant because you absolutely need that money to support your little family.   There is no other income.   JRod lived in an RV with how many kids?    People actually do live in RV's.    She's 20 and married to a flipper, livin the life.   At least they are independent of Jboob.   They aren't bible thumping preaching fund's like Jeremy, Derick or even Ben.  The other's are living off Jboob, lucky to "temporarily" stay in one of Jboob's houses.    I'd rather have Austin and his independent sense any day.

[HurricaneBells]

ok i got to share this then... its worth the watch for the giggles! Childbirth education circa 1950 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZXlI32Tyu4

It must have been a helluva shock to actually then give birth!

and its Vacumn! LOL

 

[Satan'sFortress]

@HurricaneBells That was very interesting.  I really enjoy learning about the history of childbirth.  I was actually sort of surprised how "natural" that video was in some places---talking about relaxation, etc.  My mother had 5 babies in the 1960s and was "put to sleep" for all but me--her last one.  She didn't like that method and said my birth was really wonderful, being awake and all.  So, it is interesting that a decade earlier, this was not necessarily the norm. 

I've said it here before, but enjoy repeating, that my MIL said we shouldn't take childbirth classes because learning about birth would only scare us.  I guess she went into it blindly.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

46 minutes ago, HurricaneBells said:

LOL ok i got to share this then... its worth the watch for the giggles! Childbirth education circa 1950 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZXlI32Tyu4

It must have been a helluva shock to actually then give birth!

and its Vacumn! LOL

I will forever now call it an ab DOH min.  That was so very unrealistic. 

[RainbowSky]

I think they realized the babies were breech, and decided to stay home anyway. Then they decided it was too much and went in for pain and the hospital for some unGodly reason did a C-section because people think that's how you get breech babies out.

 

[SweetJuly]

12 hours ago, HurricaneBells said:

ok i got to share this then... its worth the watch for the giggles! Childbirth education circa 1950 https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fZXlI32Tyu4

It must have been a helluva shock to actually then give birth!

 

"Don't worry, you'll stretch enough" ?

Ah, to be a glamorous pregnant lady in the 1950s when everything was graceful and elegant, and your obstetrician would suit up to check on your knitting labouring self!