Jinjer 37: The Joys of Pregnancy

[SamiKatz]

I used to have a really long daily commute (two hours each way on a good public transit day), so I used to knit and listen to audiobooks.  I listed to two Outlander books, which were great but I did learn that it was uncomfortable to have some one reading sex scenes to me while I was surrounded by strangers on the subway.

I'm a big podcast fan and usually listen to one while I'm trying to fall asleep.

[Don'tlikekoolaid]

Kind of off thread here but in the visiting Bates episode of 17 Kids @ Counting episode there is a huge satellite dish on the end of the house.  But they don't watch TV, not much. Liars

[Glasgowghirl]

I have a fire tablet, a galaxy tablet and lots of books. With working more hours going to university and doing an open university course, I haven't read much other than required reading for uni. I finish uni for summer end of April so will read more then, hopefully outside in the sun some days. 

I always liked to read, my brother and sister were not readers, I still have the original Harry Potter books and a new set and Roald Dahl books. I used to love spending my pocket money on books as a child, sometimes mum would let me get books more expensive than my allowance because it was educational. 

[potato]

Just echoing a lot of what has already been said here, but I'm in science grad school and I have next to no time to read for fun.  I read here a lot, I read textbooks, and I read scientific papers about my research, but it makes me sad that I can't just sit down with a novel.

[Escadora]

Oh, I love love love when thread drift includes reading and books. The JinJer threads seem to have a books-related thread drift every 10 threads or so, which is nice.

For me, I know exactly when I stopped reading books as a form of escapism, and it coincides when I had the rest of my big life breakdown. It does suck, to me, that I’ve been able to gain back almost everything I lost during that time except for my love of settling down with a chunky book in my hand, and reading the whole thing all in one go. I used to eat a breakfast, pick up a novel, spend a good few hours getting lost in it, and then come back for dinner all dazed and happy with the conclusion the book had led me to.

I guess that my two main problems are that 1: I don’t like the same fiction I did before. My ‘me’ is different now, and - as a mostly female preferring bisexual woman - I, respectfully, am bored with reading stories of heterosexual cisgender couples in books. It just bores me so much now, unless it’s not the main focus of the story (say, I love a good epic adventure. sci-fi, pirate universes, fantasy land, medieval-era type plot) whereas I could totally read a f/f story that didn’t have much plot purely because it’s what speaks to me/resonates with me.  I imagine straight people would feel the same way, but in reverse. Tell you what, I think I prefer books that have little-to-no romance in them at all. My latest favourite novel is The Book Thief by Markus Zusak, and I’ve been reading it over and over again since November 2016 because I haven’t been able to find anything else that interests me. Problem 2: I hate the feel of new books. And the smell. And the price. What with my course at uni taking up funds, and not being able to take on a job right now for a multiplicity of reasons, I don’t have the money spare to invest in new books. Seriously, though, the smell of new books unsettles me for reasons I can’t articulate, and new books have paper that’s rigid and scratchy and it just sets my skin and teeth on edge when the pages rub together and it makes a sound/sensation I can’t describe but it makes me want to puke. 

But yeah I’m having trouble sourcing books that fit both my sensory and literary preferences, which is why I mostly turn to fanfiction these days. Knock it if you want, but 200,000+ word stories about characters I’m already attached to, where these characters can be in any setting, having aaaany adventure, and falling in love with people not explored in canon… it’s just a special kind of literature, and gets way less credit than it deserves.  

As much as I love fanfic, however, it doesn’t - for obvious, copyright related reasons - come in old, worn book form. And, like I said, I really do miss books. 

[Ivycoveredtower]

21 minutes ago, Escadora said:

 

As much as I love fanfic, however, it doesn’t - for obvious, copyright related reasons - come in old, worn book form. And, like I said, I really do miss books. 

I love fanfiction it's fun to get lost in an already familiar world but see how others view it. 

I read those dreaded Romance novels I Have three shelves packed full and more. I also read a lot of history books also though.. 

[KelseyAnn]

2 hours ago, mango_fandango said:

That was exactly Erika Shupe’s attitude to fiction. She, and many other fundies, have the mindset that you have to be constantly learning (if you’re not reading Biblical stuff of course).

1

Someone should tell Shupe that constant reading from an early age was the reason I had such an impressive vocabulary. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

@lumpentheologie - My dad has a significant hearing loss, so when we visit him the CC is always on. I really enjoy having that - and, like you, sometimes it's just easier to understand the dialog. BTW - can you tell me what your screen name means? 

@Don'tlikekoolaid - I haven't seen that episode, but I think the Bateseseses live in a remote area; that satellite dish could be for their Internet connection.

[Escadora]

Just now, Ivycoveredtower said:

I love fanfiction it's fun to get lost in an already familiar world but see how others view it. 

I read those dreaded Romance novels I Have three shelves packed full and more. I also read a lot of history books also though.. 

@Ivycoveredtower , I’m truly sorry, this got away from me. Please don’t take it as a giant rant at you, I loved the points you made. I just was replying and then had some more thoughts. I'll put a line in between my reply and my other thoughts.

I don't think I'll ever not love fanfiction. Not only was it what started off my desire to learn how to write well back when I was just entering my teenage years, but it's pretty much my only connection to fiction based literature now.

You know, it's awesome that you read and enjoy Romance novels. I'm a big supporter of you do you when it comes to fiction, although I feel like there should be some limits (but I think everyone has those limits, and they're entirely to do with each individual person's ethics and morals and values). Underage sexual things, and themes that glorify racial violence/suggest disgusting things about people who are not the straight, white ideal are books that I would argue have very little, if any value, and I’m typically not one to promote book censorship.

But, hey, give me a romance that's not too cheesy/cringey, or too unrealistic, or doesn't promote what I believe to be an example of a healthy relationship, and I'm there and reading it

-----

I think what I'm referring to, as the romance I can't stand, is the cookie cutter type books that were so popular back when my mum was an avid reader in the mid 2000s (I used to pilfer from her collection) and it was all about women who abandoned their friends in search of love or put up with mediocre/abusive men and I used to love all that because back when I was young I thought my life was going to be just like that. That I’d keep friends until I married some guy but I’d make it work even if we were unhappy (which, to be fair, is what was modelled to me in my parents’ marriage when I was young) and that would be it.

But that’s not what I want now, those aren’t my values are now, and it’s why I get so mad when I see people go “Oh, but gender and sexuality aren’t important and shouldn’t define who you are, why does it need to be in literature and games and media?” and my answer to that would be that non diverse literature (meaning books that don’t explicitly champion PoC,  LGBT+ people, feminist principles etc…) has existed forever. You don’t have to search hard to find it. It’s why no one is surprised and no one is fussed when another Nicholas Sparks book comes out, because it fits in with what people expect. It’s why there’s such an uproar when these diverse books and other forms of media (video games, films, etc…) are released. And the thing is, if sexuality, gender identity, race, disability, and all other others than the straight, white, cis, abled ‘ideal’ truly, truuuuly did not matter, then these people wouldn’t create a fuss every time their favourite franchise includes a minority, because if it didn’t matter that someone isn’t that ‘ideal’ then what, exactly, I ask in an eyebrows-raised fashion, because I know the answer damn well, is the problem with including that minority?

And that’s not to say that books and media that focus on straight, white, abled characters have no value. Of course they do. Most books have value, barring the ones I mentioned before, and that’s only my opinion.

Gah, it’s my hill. I’ll die on it.

(Also, I probably shouldn’t speak for minorities that I myself am not a part of. I’m white and abled and cisgender. If anyone who belongs to these groups or has experience with this and I’ve said something incorrect then please let me know. I have good intentions but am horrible with wording things, at times)

[coexist]

2 hours ago, Don'tlikekoolaid said:

Kind of off thread here but in the visiting Bates episode of 17 Kids @ Counting episode there is a huge satellite dish on the end of the house.  But they don't watch TV, not much. Liars

I grew up mainstream Seventh-day Adventist which was bad enough, then unfortunately in my early teens my parents were introduced to a sort of offshoot, fundamentalist, extreme SDA group of lunatics who didn't believe in watching TV (and a whole host of other things like wearing neckties, collared shirts, belts, etc.)  There was an exception though: a Adventist channel called 3ABN (Three Angels Broadcasting Network). In the early days it was only available by satellite, though now it's available on regular cable. A lot of those wackadoodle fundie SDA offshoot nutjobs I was stuck living with* had those monstrous old school dishes installed just for that *one* channel. Blocked access to all the others.  I wonder if the Bateseseseses did something similar.

*Stuck living with, because there was a whole culty compound with multiple families living there that operated a health sanitarium, and a sister compound in a neighboring town with multiple other families living there that operated a "medical missionary training facility". And now I'll stop derailing the thread. Back to the Duggars!

[Ivycoveredtower]

3 minutes ago, Escadora said:

@Ivycoveredtower , I’m truly sorry, this got away from me. Please don’t take it as a giant rant at you, I loved the points you made. I just was replying and then had some more thoughts. I'll put a line in between my reply and my other thoughts.

I don't think I'll ever not love fanfiction. Not only was it what started off my desire to learn how to write well back when I was just entering my teenage years, but it's pretty much my only connection to fiction based literature now.

You know, it's awesome that you read and enjoy Romance novels. I'm a big supporter of you do you when it comes to fiction, although I feel like there should be some limits (but I think everyone has those limits, and they're entirely to do with each individual person's ethics and morals and values). Underage sexual things, and themes that glorify racial violence/suggest disgusting things about people who are not the straight, white ideal are books that I would argue have very little, if any value, and I’m typically not one to promote book censorship.

But, hey, give me a romance that's not too cheesy/cringey, or too unrealistic, or doesn't promote what I believe to be an example of a healthy relationship, and I'm there and reading it

-----

I think what I'm referring to, as the romance I can't stand, is the cookie cutter type books that were so popular back when my mum was an avid reader in the mid 2000s (I used to pilfer from her collection) and it was all about women who abandoned their friends in search of love or put up with mediocre/abusive men and I used to love all that because back when I was young I thought my life was going to be just like that. That I’d keep friends until I married some guy but I’d make it work even if we were unhappy (which, to be fair, is what was modelled to me in my parents’ marriage when I was young) and that would be it.

But that’s not what I want now, those aren’t my values are now, and it’s why I get so mad when I see people go “Oh, but gender and sexuality aren’t important and shouldn’t define who you are, why does it need to be in literature and games and media?” and my answer to that would be that non diverse literature (meaning books that don’t explicitly champion PoC,  LGBT+ people, feminist principles etc…) has existed forever. You don’t have to search hard to find it. It’s why no one is surprised and no one is fussed when another Nicholas Sparks book comes out, because it fits in with what people expect. It’s why there’s such an uproar when these diverse books and other forms of media (video games, films, etc…) are released. And the thing is, if sexuality, gender identity, race, disability, and all other others than the straight, white, cis, abled ‘ideal’ truly, truuuuly did not matter, then these people wouldn’t create a fuss every time their favourite franchise includes a minority, because if it didn’t matter that someone isn’t that ‘ideal’ then what, exactly, I ask in an eyebrows-raised fashion, because I know the answer damn well, is the problem with including that minority?

And that’s not to say that books and media that focus on straight, white, abled characters have no value. Of course they do. Most books have value, barring the ones I mentioned before, and that’s only my opinion.

Gah, it’s my hill. I’ll die on it.

(Also, I probably shouldn’t speak for minorities that I myself am not a part of. I’m white and abled and cisgender. If anyone who belongs to these groups or has experience with this and I’ve said something incorrect then please let me know. I have good intentions but am horrible with wording things, at times)

I will say that a plotless romance is something I"m not good with I like them with strong friendship/family ties those are the ones I usually gravitate towards. 

as for diverse books I admittedly don't read many but in reason months I Have read a few books Biracial relationships and LGBT+ books that I really enjoyed. Plus I seem to have a fascination with LGTBT+ Harry Potter fanfiction no clue why LOL I do need to broaden my herizon's a bit and I am excited to do that as long as there is a smidge of romance I am usually good with a book. no matter who the two main characters may be.

7 minutes ago, coexist said:

I grew up mainstream Seventh-day Adventist which was bad enough, then unfortunately in my teens my parents were introduced to a sort of offshoot, fundamentalist, extreme SDA group of lunatics who didn't believe in watching TV (and a whole host of other things like wearing neckties, collared shirts, belts, etc.)  There was an exception though: a Adventist channel called 3ABN (Three Angels Broadcasting Network). In the early days it was only available by satellite, though now it's available on regular cable. A lot of those wackadoodle fundie SDA offshoot nutjobs I was stuck living with had those monstrous old school dishes installed just for that *one* channel. Blocked access to all the others.  I wonder if the Bateseseseses did something similar.

 I don't know why but this whole post made me think of Mrs Kim from Gilmore girls if I remember right she was 7 day Adventist  and sent Lane to that weird college and told her there was a camera in the tv but I always laughed at the french fries where a gate way food and the devils starchy fingers scenes 

[Jellybean]

@EscadoraI can only speak as a disabled person (white, straight, cisgender female), but I’m always delighted to see minorities in all kinds of media. I tend to critique peripheral characters in film and tv - the ones for whom we don’t know a backstory and who are not really important to the plot. It’s so common for them to be shown as male, white, able. I desperately hope that Frances McDormand’s promotion of inclusion riders will improve the look and feel of the media that we consume. 

I would have loved to see more characters that use mobility aids that are not used as sympathy or inspiration porn, especially when I had to start using a wheelchair full time at the age of 21. I have always tried to be visible in my community so that people see me and recognise that there is a need for better access, but mostly that I’m just human like them - running errands, getting on with my life. I smile a lot too. Because I’m happy, but I think it can also be good for people to be reminded that people with disabilities are not all miserable all the time.

[Escadora]

@Ivycoveredtower Y'know, funny you should mention Harry Potter. I've never really been into the fanfiction for that series, but I have recently been considering reading those through again. At least, I think it's again? I definitely watched the movies and I believe I read the books but then people mention characters I've no memory of and so perhaps I haven't but I just can't say for sure because, well, I guess I've just blurred out most of my Harry Potter experience. I did recently rewatch all the Starkid AVPM videos, though, so I have that going for me. 

I have to say that I love that so many people here love reading, and that it's so supported. Ans you shouldn't pay any mind to what I say about romances, by the way, if you love them. Fill your bookshelves with them, read guilt-free and happy in the knowledge that you've enjoyed your time in the fictional worlds. Expand your horizons and and when you see fit, and not before you're ready and willing. I know you already know this, but have boundless affection for your experiences with reading and keep a tight hold of your love for books and literature for as long as you can. Keep old natty, torn books, buy pristine, freshly printed copies, keep a mix of the both. Read on a tablet, kindle,or laptop. You do you. Read what you want, when you want, and love it. If you want to. And also, if you can, if you feel that way inclined, maybe lead or teach the children in your life to love books too. 

I did my mini thesis last year at the end of Access to Uni about how books and fiction allow children to interact with concepts on a more personal level than abstract discussion allows, and the statistics I found, and the study work just confirmed it all to me that reading is so, so important. Of course, this can be used for bad (I have a lot of work on Nazi propaganda in the form of children’s literature on my computer that I used for my project, and the results are quite chilling), but the earlier on children are exposed to the world through all mediums (especially fiction, where children can connect to characters who represent people they may not have a chance to interact with on a human, physical level) the better - I feel, as a not parent but frequent caregiver for many children and someone who has grown up as someone who has been in charge of looking after my family’s children, so please do take what I say with a grain of salt and feel free to disregard it if you so wish - they’ll be able to understand and engage with people and ideas and concepts.

Of course, human interaction with these things is more effective than stories, but fiction is a great option for introducing children to ideas, people, and situations. I feel like I'm preaching to the choir. I'll hush now. 

Ahh I just love reading.

[lumpentheologie]

11 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

@lumpentheologie can you tell me what your screen name means? 

"Lumpentheologie" was a German neologism used by Paul de Lagarde (who was a proto-fascist and anti-Semite, but also a famous biblical scholar) in the mid-19th century as a pejorative term for the official Protestant theology of Prussia the time.  He was protesting the religious response to philosophical and scientific criticism of religion, which was mostly to become more entwined with the state and monarchy, to emphasize strict surface-level observance in the face of the challenges of modernity, and to deny the need for change or reform. 

The prefix "lumpen-" is taken from the model of Lumpenproletariat, and generally means worthless and potentially destructive.  It started getting added to all kinds of German words in the 19th century as a way to express disapproval. Lagarde also says "unscientific, deceitful theology" and "spiritual bankruptcy" to describe the same thing as "Lumpentheologie". 

I was delighted when I came across the word around the same time I was considering de-lurking here at FJ, since it seemed like IBLP and a lot of the fundies we discuss here are doing basically the same things (trying to merge religion and government, as well as embracing legalism and an anti-science worldview) that Lagarde had so much disdain for. To be clear, though, I don't at all approve of his political views or what he thought would be a better version of Christianity (a "manly, Nordic" version that had been cleansed of all objectionable "Semitic" elements). I'm just working on the weird theological ideas of some German conservatives for my dissertation. 

[Pretzel]

@lumpentheologie I understood the word perfectly but I just assumed you made it up to describe the teaching of ATI and IBLP in one word. lol 

@VelociRapture It saddens me that you seem to be feeling guilty about not having the time or desire to read. I think that the time and place for certain hobbies like sewing, or crocheting, or reading, comes in waves. Now is just not the time for reading i.e. a low tide. You have a beautiful baby girl and it's a-ok to just enjoy her and reading Cat in the Hat or Very Hungry Caterpillar instead of Poe or Thoreau. You shouldn't feel guilty. Other things are more important and reading can wait. There will be a time again when you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a good book and you will appreciate that time even more then. 

Additionally, and I don't know why nobody's mentioned it yet, but if you have little time, or a limited attention span for reading, short stories are a great alternative. 

--------

My take is this: read books, don't read books, listen to books, read periodicals, journals, reports whatever. To each their own. Intelligence isn't exclusively linked to the amount of reading a person does. 

[lumpentheologie]

4 minutes ago, Pretzel said:

@lumpentheologie I understood the word perfectly but I just assumed you made it up to describe the teaching of ATI and IBLP in one word. lol 

As someone insecure about my German, I'm taking this as a huge compliment! Thanks! 

[Pretzel]

5 minutes ago, lumpentheologie said:

As someone insecure about my German, I'm taking this as a huge compliment! Thanks! 

I actually thought you were a German native speaker. IMHO it would take a native speaker or someone with a near-native command of the German language to specifically make up this term. 

[Jellybean]

I know you weren’t talking specifically to me, @Pretzel, but thank you for the encouragement. It definitely does come in waves for being creative, making things, reading. It’s hard to feel that one’s mojo has disappeared but in my experience it almost always returns. 

After my dad died in his 50s, I was utterly distraught and one of the things that  happened was that I couldn’t read. He had always been my ‘dealer’ for new books and authors, and I couldn’t fathom reading without him. We read the same book just before he died, and it was wonderful to be able to talk to him about it and share our thoughts. It’s been 7 years now, and my many siblings and I have supported each other to find books and read again. We send each other books on the anniversary of his death, as an encouragement to each other, and a reminder of how much Dad loved books and reading, and all of his children. 

[Four is Enough]

2 hours ago, Pretzel said:

My take is this: read books, don't read books, listen to books, read periodicals, journals, reports whatever. To each their own. Intelligence isn't exclusively linked to the amount of reading a person does. 

Intelligence isn't, but the ability to rhyme, make inferences, count by numbers seems to be.

We read to One and Two extensively. Three and four came as early school aged children. All that "We Like to Hop on Top of Pop" worked well for One and Two. If you asked them for a rhyming word, they could supply or make one up.

Didn't work at all for Three and Four. They just do NOT intuit rhyme. They weren't read to at all. They could gyrate to the latest thing on the radio, but they couldn't say rhyming words. They never saw blocks or ABC books, and didn't know their letters. Same with numbers. They never counted up piles of plain blocks, either.

And Two Four Six Eight? Nope. They don't have that, either, or Five Ten Fifteen Twenty.. and it REALLY affected their ability to learn to multiply. Those two are calculator users for the smallest math problem.

[mydoggoskeeper]

On 3/10/2018 at 4:33 PM, TheMustardCardigan said:

I miss reading for fun. When I went to law school there was just so much reading for school that reading for fun fell by the wayside for me. I'll have to poke around and see what's out there to download on Kindle these days.

After law school (and the bar exam!) it took me a solid 2-3 years to read anything more than a newspaper/magazine for fun.  I think my poor eyes needed to recover!

[VelociRapture]

5 hours ago, Pretzel said:

@lumpentheologie I understood the word perfectly but I just assumed you made it up to describe the teaching of ATI and IBLP in one word. lol 

@VelociRapture It saddens me that you seem to be feeling guilty about not having the time or desire to read. I think that the time and place for certain hobbies like sewing, or crocheting, or reading, comes in waves. Now is just not the time for reading i.e. a low tide. You have a beautiful baby girl and it's a-ok to just enjoy her and reading Cat in the Hat or Very Hungry Caterpillar instead of Poe or Thoreau. You shouldn't feel guilty. Other things are more important and reading can wait. There will be a time again when you can sit back, relax, and enjoy a good book and you will appreciate that time even more then. 

Additionally, and I don't know why nobody's mentioned it yet, but if you have little time, or a limited attention span for reading, short stories are a great alternative. 

--------

My take is this: read books, don't read books, listen to books, read periodicals, journals, reports whatever. To each their own. Intelligence isn't exclusively linked to the amount of reading a person does. 

Oh, I’m not feeling guilty at all. I just miss having time to read. I read a lot prior to my miscarriage and it’s simply been an adjustment for me. I wouldn’t trade my tiny person for anything tgiugh, even unlimited reading time.  

I did start a book my grandparents gave me recently that I haven’t read yet. I can’t read much in a sitting (because tiny tyrant and adulting), but I’m hopeful I can start easing back into it.

[nausicaa]

20 hours ago, coexist said:

I grew up mainstream Seventh-day Adventist which was bad enough, then unfortunately in my early teens my parents were introduced to a sort of offshoot, fundamentalist, extreme SDA group of lunatics who didn't believe in watching TV (and a whole host of other things like wearing neckties, collared shirts, belts, etc.)  There was an exception though: a Adventist channel called 3ABN (Three Angels Broadcasting Network). In the early days it was only available by satellite, though now it's available on regular cable. A lot of those wackadoodle fundie SDA offshoot nutjobs I was stuck living with* had those monstrous old school dishes installed just for that *one* channel. Blocked access to all the others.  I wonder if the Bateseseseses did something similar.

*Stuck living with, because there was a whole culty compound with multiple families living there that operated a health sanitarium, and a sister compound in a neighboring town with multiple other families living there that operated a "medical missionary training facility". And now I'll stop derailing the thread. Back to the Duggars!

Please don't apologize for derailing. We love this sort of stuff, and I at least have so many questions for you!

We had a SDA thread a while back with some former members, and the no-neckties or collared shirts people were mentioned. I can't believe we have someone who actually grew up with them. 

[coexist]

That was me, lol! I can't recall the thread anymore, but this was several years ago when I'd finally stopped lurking. I'm not sure how bringing them up tied in to the thread I derailed at the time (wait, like all thread drift it didn't tie in, lol!). I just know it felt so good to finally be able to talk about the crazy. : )

[feministxtian]

I can't do audiobooks. It's just background noise. I'm one of those "see it, touch it, taste it, roll in it" learners. But, my reading tastes run to non-fiction geek (everything from the Columbia Accident Board report to astronaut biographies/autobiographies), fiction geek (hard sci-fi like Bova and Robinson) and action/adventure (Cussler, Clancy) and theology. I get 90% of my news online too from multiple sources from across the spectrum. 

Today I'm pretty out of it. Ended up in the ER last night for the hubby...he had an abscess on his gum that was going up into his face and well...as a diabetic, that shit needs to get taken care of PRONTO!!! Fortunately we went to the VA hospital and they knew we were on our way by the nurse line and were waiting for us (especially since his blood sugar was over 500)...and I wake up with a ferocious headache every fucking morning since my car accident. I HATE it! 

[SapphireSlytherin]

@feministxtian - I'm hopeful your husband is on the mend soon! 

Also - I'm a HUGE Cussler fan, and really NOT a fan of all the books he's pimping out his name for (although the Isaac Bell books are decent enough).