Turpins 2- California Torture House (Graphic content discussed)

[Crazy Enough to Join]

1 hour ago, bird said:

This is what I wanted to ask! A lot of people defending homeschooling write about children with special or additional needs not fitting into mainstream schools. My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

I'm not talking about developmental delays. The U.S. school system provides wonderful services for those. Let's say a child is academically gifted but emotionally too immature for kindergarten. Homeschooling for a year or two until the kid is ready to enter a classroom environment in 1st or 2nd grade might be ideal. Let's say a kid has cancer and going to school is just too much for a while. Or maybe a child transitioning to middle school is getting horrible anxiety from bullying and just needs a year or two away from the school system to recover their confidence. Or maybe your high schooler is getting into drugs at school so you keep them home to do substance abuse classes and separate them from those negative peers for a year. It's K-12 homeschooling where I see most of the problems. Pulling a kid out for a year or so here or there if circumstances require (a family trip to travel the world perhaps?) is fine by me.

[DisgustedofHove]

18 minutes ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

I'm not talking about developmental delays. The U.S. school system provides wonderful services for those. Let's say a child is academically gifted but emotionally too immature for kindergarten. Homeschooling for a year or two until the kid is ready to enter a classroom environment in 1st or 2nd grade might be ideal. 

This was my daughter. We tried starting her schooling on time, she suffered greatly. A year of liaising with the school didn’t help. We pulled her out, home schooled for a couple of years, then eased her back in. She was ready that second time, and has done great since.

 

[Seren Ann]

56 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I don't know where you're from, but you're clearly not from Germany since you say you were homeschooled. Well, I AM from Germany and I can assure you that the state does not "[interfere] and [regulate] every single thing so rigidly." In fact, people tend to be much freer in my experience (I now live in the US) because of government "invervention." Because people don't have to fear for their livelihoods if they get sick, or have a child with disabilities, or any other fact of life that can pretty much ruin a person here in America.

Frankly, I see the fact that parents of children with special needs in the US often see homeschooling as their only choice as proof of a lack of freedom. If the government of one of the richest countries in the world proverly provided for its citizens, parents would have access to proper services for their children and wouldn't feel forced to homeschool their children. That is the exact opposite of freedom, to me. Now I'm not at all saying that some parents wouldn't still choose to homeschool, and that's fine. But it appears that for many parents of special needs children, there simply is no choice.

I impore you to at least talk to actual Germans (or people from other countries with stronger governments) before coming up with such a strong conclusion. I have yet to hear ANY German say that they feel like the state interferes too much with their business. A single one. While I'm sure they exist, they must be in a VERY small minority for me to never have encountered one, as I lived 26 years of my life there.

I am from France, the UK and Belgium. I have talked to plenty of Germans, don't worry. I still find completely banning homeschooling and removing children from parents who attempt to homeschool to be a bridge too far in controlling the lives of citizens. Frankly, if my country banned homeschooling and for whatever reason I felt my child needed to be homeschooled, I would leave the country. The majority of Germans may be used to these laws and do not have a need of homeschooling, but I do know of German families who have had to leave their country and now live in France or the Netherlands to do so, so clearly, I am not alone in thinking this way.

I live in a country with a "stronger" government as you call it, my country also has socialised medicine and social aids and I am grateful for them, I love living in a country that takes care of its citizens. Thankfully this care doesn't extend to making decisions for people's families, for the moment at least. It's true that there is a general trend towards more control, including in France, and it doesn't sit well with quite a few French people, as you may have heard about vaccine obligations.

[FilleMondaine]

53 minutes ago, JillyO said:

I don't know where you're from, but you're clearly not from Germany since you say you were homeschooled. Well, I AM from Germany and I can assure you that the state does not "[interfere] and [regulate] every single thing so rigidly." In fact, people tend to be much freer in my experience (I now live in the US) because of government "invervention." Because people don't have to fear for their livelihoods if they get sick, or have a child with disabilities, or any other fact of life that can pretty much ruin a person here in America.

I lived in Germany for a while along with other "nanny-state" countries, and I support everything you say. There is freedom in financial stability. 

1 hour ago, Seren Ann said:

I was a kid who was very, very unhappy in school. When I was 7-8 years old,I  was extremely bored, the teacher singled me out and humiliated me repeatedly in front of the class (had my parents gone to her asking for special adjustments for me I am certain she would not have listened). I ended up so terrified of class that I would shake and cry every day, and every morning before school I would feel physical pain in my belly from the terror at the thought of having to return to school. After that, I could not adapt to classes well, and I was well on my way to giving up and being what we call a schooling failure here. My parents pulled me out of school and homeschooled me and it was a revelation. I could work at my speed, I was so happy not to have to deal with the pressure of school. I really flourished in a home environment.

 

As a former professional educator, I am very sorry that you were unhappy in school. I have read that better teacher pay is positively correlated to better learning outcomes for students. While throwing money at a problem doesn't always fix the problem, it can help a lot. And sounds like you deserved some help.

[FilleMondaine]

2 hours ago, bird said:

This is what I wanted to ask! A lot of people defending homeschooling write about children with special or additional needs not fitting into mainstream schools. My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

Oh boy! There are many reasons for this. I have some opinions, but really don't want to start too much.

What I can say are experiences I have had that helped: Instead of suspension or expulsion, to guide the kid to a special school that more districts are developing where they CAN get more help/learn more supportive behaviors. On-site nurseries for students who have given birth. Vocational training (Regenschule or Landschule) given equal respect as college-prep (Gymnasium). Teachers aides who follow one student throughout the day. Re-inclusion of on-site school nurses, social workers, and guidance counselors, and speech-language pathologists. The last one really costs money--which is why we need to lobby our congress-critters and support school levies. Such therapies are not a guarantee in American schools, for political reasons I don't feel like getting into  right now.

[SilverBeach]

I have no problem at all with the courtroom shackling and hope that the irony wasn't lost on the monsters. No apologies here. Besides, its SOP in many courtrooms, I never see a black man who isn't shackled regardless of the charges. 

[Seahorse Wrangler]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Someone on Websleuths pointed out that this would be a perfect job for him. He is likely isolated from others, even if he works in an office, and so his strange mannerisms and poor hygiene would not be as noticed. He would also be able to supervise the household via phone calls and even a webcam. A

Do we have any reason to suspect he and his wife followed the same Draconian rules regarding showers as the children? We know they were well fed, so I can't imagine why they weren't showering on a daily basis either.

[Tiny Bubbles]

Usually I'm appalled by courtroom shackling but not this time.  I'm not proud of this, because they looked very unwell, but it just felt satisfying to see Mom and Dad Depravity in shackles.  

[Otto Titsling]

I'm not a fan of homeschooling. I think it's entirely too easy to kid yourself about your qualifications. To be able to teach in our public schools we require a bachelors degree, time spent student-teaching, extensive background checks, fingerprinting, etc. You have to demonstrate the ability to present information, break it down into pieces, resummarize, and implement said information. And then to honestly test your children and be completely impartial. If this is what we require of our teachers, is this not what we should require of ourselves? Im not saying that parents necessarily need a bachelor degree in teaching, but asking parents to prove their ability to be effective teachers shouldn't be out of the question either. And it shouldn't come down to standardized testing, which is an inefficient method for testing some children anyway. How useful is it to find out you're not an effective teacher at the end of one year now that your child is a year behind? 

I've known people who have successfully homeschooled their children into Ivy League schools. These were parents who worked closely with the school district  and other homeschooling parents to ensure their curriculum was up to date and that any new methods were implemented immediately. They were also very conscientious about socialization for their children, and not just with one other homeschooling family. It is a full time job that has to be selflessly preformed at the highest levels to ensure children get the best education possible.

If parents are unprepared to give this kind of time and effort, why do it? If it's out of the idea that they can do it better than the government, they better damn sure be able to back it up. Because there comes a point at which your rights to homeschool your kids overlaps with your children's rights to get a good education. This isn't buying a sweater in the wrong color and then being able to return it. Returning a child to school a year behind and subsequently frustrated trying to catch up could have devastating consequences. 

Choose carefully. 

[3SecondSideHugger]

40 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

Oh boy! There are many reasons for this. I have some opinions, but really don't want to start too much.

What I can say are experiences I have had that helped: Instead of suspension or expulsion, to guide the kid to a special school that more districts are developing where they CAN get more help/learn more supportive behaviors. On-site nurseries for students who have given birth. Vocational training (Regenschule or Landschule) given equal respect as college-prep (Gymnasium). Teachers aides who follow one student throughout the day. Re-inclusion of on-site school nurses, social workers, and guidance counselors, and speech-language pathologists. The last one really costs money--which is why we need to lobby our congress-critters and support school levies. Such therapies are not a guarantee in American schools, for political reasons I don't feel like getting into  right now.

In my husband’s home country, homeschooling is illegal. Public schools are free and if you qualify for welfare, parents receive money for their child’s good attendance to school. My understanding is that they do not provide special services aside from special education being in separate classes, but therapy is not part of the school system. This country has universal healthcare, however, so one would presumably be getting therapy outside of school at no/minimal cost...

[Sydney Fox]

2 hours ago, bird said:

This is what I wanted to ask! A lot of people defending homeschooling write about children with special or additional needs not fitting into mainstream schools. My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

Well, we started homeschooling 14 years ago because I realized that our oldest daughter was not going to fit in to regular school. She has ASD, ADHD, and a variety of LDs. Plus, she’s gifted and taught herself to read at age 3. She was a real misfit socially and was already being bullied by the neighbourhood kids as a preschooler.

My husband’s career meant that we moved internationally, state to state or province to province about every 2 years. There was no chance to provide the continuity that would give her a chance to learn well. I looked into private schools, but they were extremely expensive. So, I undertook the responsibility of providing her with a good education.

She was an only child until age 8 (we suffered from secondary infertility), so I was able to devote all my time and energy to her education. After her sister and brother were born, Mr. Fox made a career change and we have been living in the same town for the past 10 years. This has opened up many opportunities for activities and friendships. 

At the age of 16, my daughter decided to go to high school. The high school was very welcoming and the transition was extremely easy. She graduated with honours in June, she has amazing friends, a great job, and is currently applying for admission to universities across the country.

I did not set out to homeschool my child, but it was the best option for us and I think we have been very successful. However, I don’t think everyone should homeschool. It is difficult, especially with a special needs child, and I think it is important that the parents are well educated. I think people should have a choice in schooling, whether it’s public school, private, distance learning or homeschooling; whatever is best for the child is the important thing.  I also think that government oversight should be mandatory. 

Anyway, I didn’t start out to write an essay, but here we are. I just wanted to explain that there are valid reasons to homeschool a special needs child.

 

[nausicaa]

24 minutes ago, Seahorse Wrangler said:

Do we have any reason to suspect he and his wife followed the same Draconian rules regarding showers as the children? We know they were well fed, so I can't imagine why they weren't showering on a daily basis either.

True, I don't think they followed the same rules for themselves, but I can't believe they wouldn't smell somewhat coming from a trash and feces filled house with twelve unwashed bodies around them. There's no way anyone who lived in that Texas house would smell like roses. And that was before things got really bad in California. I also think they both looked kind of unkempt in the last vow renewal video, and that was for a major event. Just his haircut alone freaks me out.

[libgirl2]

My best friend ( who has a Master's Degree) homeschooled her daughters until on was a freshman and the other in 7th grade. She was very good with the girls making sure they did what was required and following state guidelines but the homeschool was religious based. Both girls went to college, one is a teacher of special needs kids and the other plans on doing the same. My friend is no longer very religious neither are the girls. I also know others who homeschooled and their kids are succeeding.

 

I think there needs to be guidelines.  Not everyone is qualified or has the best of intentions. I wouldn't do away with it, but we can't keep letting kids slip under the radar due to bad parenting/teaching.

[iweartanktops]

10 hours ago, bird said:

A number of days have passed, I've read many articles and all of the fj threads but my thoughts keep going back to the photos. I just can't reconcile those "happy family" holiday snaps with the unfolding horror stories. I have been shocked by the depths of human depravity these parents have sunk to but somehow those family outings/ holidays make it so much worse. And so much harder to wrap my head around. For those children to be close to death/ starvation and then in the next minute cleaned up, dressed up and paraded in the open, their brazen parents so confident that they were sufficiently terrified not to try run or ask for help, has been keeping me up at night too.

 

Yep. The kids were likely terrified of what might happen if they didn't appear to be absolutely delighted at all times.

3 hours ago, Nikedagain? said:

Wonder why there hasn't been a single one?

 

3 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Depending on the security requirements of working for a defense contractor, his coworkers may not be allowed to speak. 

I think it's also possible that law enforcement has talked to a lot of potential trial witnesses, and asked them not to speak to the media. I was involved in a high profile case, and in my experience, they get the word out quickly. They cannot force anyone to not speak to the media, but they certainly discourage it, and explain why it's important for the case. Usually it's effective. I'm glad reliable witnesses seem to be silent right now. Hopefully they are only talking to investigators about anything they know. It's really important to protect the integrity of the case. 

[feministxtian]

I worked for a division of one of the companies MonsterMan worked for...and yes, employees are NOT to speak to the media...ALL requests are to go to the PR department. Also, when you sign an NDA, there's so many clauses in there, nobody really reads it (it's a cure for insomnia)...so the best bet is to just not say anything. If I remember correctly, the NDA for this particular company ran about 10 pages, single-spaced in about a 6 point font. So, no, I didn't read it, I just signed it. 

[ViolaSebastian]

44 minutes ago, Otto Titsling said:

I'm not a fan of homeschooling. I think it's entirely too easy to kid yourself about your qualifications.

If I ever have kiddos, which grows increasingly unlikely, I would like to have homeschooling as a option, even if its a supplement to the regular school day. (The schools here suck a big you know what...). My personal journey in school consisted of being rejected from the gifted and talented program by a thin margin, so I found ways to entertain myself that weren't positive--there was also a lot of bullying due to me having severe scoliosis, but at that point my mother was a single parent and homeschooling just wasn't in the cards. That said, if I did, I think it would be incredibly important to know when to 'tap out' and get someone with more knowledge and experience. I can't see myself helping a junior in high school with chemistry lab or physics class, but I would be all over history and English. And plenty of people get involved in co-ops to do just that. It's just essential to know when to put one's ego aside for the sake of the child's education. 

[Sideways]

22 minutes ago, Sydney Fox said:

Well, we started homeschooling 14 years ago because I realized that our oldest daughter was not going to fit in to regular school. She has ASD, ADHD, and a variety of LDs. Plus, she’s gifted and taught herself to read at age 3. She was a real misfit socially and was already being bullied by the neighbourhood kids as a preschooler.

My husband’s career meant that we moved internationally, state to state or province to province about every 2 years. There was no chance to provide the continuity that would give her a chance to learn well. I looked into private schools, but they were extremely expensive. So, I undertook the responsibility of providing her with a good education.

She was an only child until age 8 (we suffered from secondary infertility), so I was able to devote all my time and energy to her education. After her sister and brother were born, Mr. Fox made a career change and we have been living in the same town for the past 10 years. This has opened up many opportunities for activities and friendships. 

At the age of 16, my daughter decided to go to high school. The high school was very welcoming and the transition was extremely easy. She graduated with honours in June, she has amazing friends, a great job, and is currently applying for admission to universities across the country.

I did not set out to homeschool my child, but it was the best option for us and I think we have been very successful. However, I don’t think everyone should homeschool. It is difficult, especially with a special needs child, and I think it is important that the parents are well educated. I think people should have a choice in schooling, whether it’s public school, private, distance learning or homeschooling; whatever is best for the child is the important thing.  I also think that government oversight should be mandatory. 

Anyway, I didn’t start out to write an essay, but here we are. I just wanted to explain that there are valid reasons to homeschool a special needs child.

 

Appreciated hearing your personal story!   You were fortunate to have the time to teach and educational level yourself to do what was best for your child, who is now being successful at her age.  Would that all HSed children have this experience.  

Unfortunately a very vocal movement in HSing the U.S. today seems to be the Fundies, where religious "education" is the backbone to the exclusion of critical thought and secular ideas.   Fundamenetalists' refusal to believe science, the failure to expose their children to religious and ethnic diversity, and non-religious ideas, promotes a cult of willful ignorance.  This warrants concern in the overall homeschooling discussion.   Dinosaurs did not roam the earth when Jesus was alive

[Crazy Enough to Join]

36 minutes ago, libgirl2 said:

My best friend ( who has a Master's Degree) homeschooled her daughters until on was a freshman and the other in 7th grade. She was very good with the girls making sure they did what was required and following state guidelines but the homeschool was religious based. Both girls went to college, one is a teacher of special needs kids and the other plans on doing the same. My friend is no longer very religious neither are the girls. I also know others who homeschooled and their kids are succeeding.

 

I think there needs to be guidelines.  Not everyone is qualified or has the best of intentions. I wouldn't do away with it, but we can't keep letting kids slip under the radar due to bad parenting/teaching.

Succeeding is not the only goal. Of course, they're succeeding. Homeschooled kids are some of the most hardworking people I know. Even those whose parents don't educate them often end up very well-educated because the 10, 12, or 16 year old is passionate enough about knowledge to teach themselves. (Not how things should work!) Another goal of childhood is being able to have fun and be a kid and have a social life. Many homeschooled kids never get those opportunities.

[Jana814]

Homeschooling in my area does not happened. The schools are some of the best in the state. The public schools in my area do their best to educate all the kids. Their are some special needs schools in my area that if a kid goes their a lot times the district pays for them to go. 

[Hisey]

59 minutes ago, Sydney Fox said:

Well, we started homeschooling 14 years ago because I realized that our oldest daughter was not going to fit in to regular school. She has ASD, ADHD, and a variety of LDs. Plus, she’s gifted and taught herself to read at age 3. She was a real misfit socially and was already being bullied by the neighbourhood kids as a preschooler.

My husband’s career meant that we moved internationally, state to state or province to province about every 2 years. There was no chance to provide the continuity that would give her a chance to learn well. I looked into private schools, but they were extremely expensive. So, I undertook the responsibility of providing her with a good education.

She was an only child until age 8 (we suffered from secondary infertility), so I was able to devote all my time and energy to her education. After her sister and brother were born, Mr. Fox made a career change and we have been living in the same town for the past 10 years. This has opened up many opportunities for activities and friendships. 

At the age of 16, my daughter decided to go to high school. The high school was very welcoming and the transition was extremely easy. She graduated with honours in June, she has amazing friends, a great job, and is currently applying for admission to universities across the country.

I did not set out to homeschool my child, but it was the best option for us and I think we have been very successful. However, I don’t think everyone should homeschool. It is difficult, especially with a special needs child, and I think it is important that the parents are well educated. I think people should have a choice in schooling, whether it’s public school, private, distance learning or homeschooling; whatever is best for the child is the important thing.  I also think that government oversight should be mandatory. 

Anyway, I didn’t start out to write an essay, but here we are. I just wanted to explain that there are valid reasons to homeschool a special needs child.

 

Thanks for sharing your experience!

I think there are different types of needs. Schools are designed to handle some of those needs, but not all. For certain needs, school can often do a better than a parent, because the school will have more resources. For example, schools are required to provide braille or audio books to a blind student, something a parent might not be able to afford. A child with a reading difficulty is probably better off in a well-funded public school with reading specialists. An IEP can force the school to provide therapies for kids for free.

OTOH, a profoundly gifted child is better off with a parent homeschooling than in a public school system with no gifted program.

Bullying is a special case. It is not a "special need." But a bullied child needs support or to be pulled out of the situation. That's why choice is so important. If a country forbids homeschooling, where is the "out" for the bullied child? Can they transfer?  I sure wouldn't want to spend hours every day in a place where I was being bullied. I always felt that I would pull my kids out of PS in such a situation. School is not that all-fired important compared to a child's mental health.

[FilleMondaine]

1 hour ago, 3SecondSideHugger said:

In my husband’s home country, homeschooling is illegal. Public schools are free and if you qualify for welfare, parents receive money for their child’s good attendance to school. My understanding is that they do not provide special services aside from special education being in separate classes, but therapy is not part of the school system. This country has universal healthcare, however, so one would presumably be getting therapy outside of school at no/minimal cost...

In the military community, we also have universal healthcare. Therapy is free to us. So yes, I can say that a system of free support professionals along with public school can really help. 

[Sydney Fox]

5 minutes ago, Sideways said:

Appreciated hearing your personal story!   You were fortunate to have the time to teach and educational level yourself to do what was best for your child, who is now being successful at her age.  Would that all HSed children have this experience.  

Unfortunately a very vocal movement in HSing the U.S. today seems to be the Fundies, where religious "education" is the backbone to the exclusion of critical thought and secular ideas.   Fundamenetalists' refusal to believe science, the failure to expose their children to religious and ethnic diversity, and non-religious ideas, promotes a cult of willful ignorance.  This warrants concern in the overall homeschooling discussion.   Dinosaurs did not roam the earth when Jesus was alive

Yes, I was fortunate to be in the situation I was in. I did find it difficult socially during the years we lived in the US because of the emphasis on religion. Many homeschool groups were religious only. As an old earth, secular humanist, I did not fit in. It has been much easier to find like minds in Canada. I find it scary that these religious homeschoolers are further isolating their children by only allowing them to have contact with other fellow believers. 

[Otto Titsling]

6 minutes ago, ViolaSebastian said:

If I ever have kiddos, which grows increasingly unlikely, I would like to have homeschooling as a option, even if its a supplement to the regular school day. (The schools here suck a big you know what...). My personal journey in school consisted of being rejected from the gifted and talented program by a thin margin, so I found ways to entertain myself that weren't positive--there was also a lot of bullying due to me having severe scoliosis, but at that point my mother was a single parent and homeschooling just wasn't in the cards. That said, if I did, I think it would be incredibly important to know when to 'tap out' and get someone with more knowledge and experience. I can't see myself helping a junior in high school with chemistry lab or physics class, but I would be all over history and English. And plenty of people get involved in co-ops to do just that. It's just essential to know when to put one's ego aside for the sake of the child's education. 

I couldn't agree more. I guess I should have said that I'm not a fan of the CURRENT standards of homeschooling. 

While I've known families that have done excellent jobs, I've also known some that have and are currently failing their children with homeschooling.  Parents who don't have the patience, self-discipline, or impartiality to teach. Sitting at the computer giving the correct answers to the kids. These same kids are weeks behind so their mother tries to make them cram it all in in a few days and then it all ends in tears and frustration. I've tried to gently suggest catching them up over a few weeks only to be told that busy work schedules and THE PARENTS' social schedule won't allow for that. After voicing my opinion that she is a selfish brat, I was asked to leave. But not before I alerted her mother (this is a family member) to the failure of a job her daughter is doing and the resulting failure to her grandchildrens education. I hear that it's been nag-a-palooza back home. Hehe!

See you at the family reunion!

[foreign fundie]

I recently had a chance to move to a nice country where homeschooling is illegal. I chose another country, and although there were many reasons for this, one certainly was that I wanted homeschooling to be an option.

Previously we had been in a situation where one of my children was very anxious about going to school and there were no good alternatives in our area. So I homeschooled till we moved again. Homeschooling was not my preference, but I realized that it could at some point be vital to my children’s well-being.

 Now all my children are happily enrolled in good schools, but I do feel that a parent should have the freedom, when seeing a child is not flourishing, to pull it out of school. Provided that the parent can provide a satisfactory education.

As for oversight, I would think that very reasonable. There are many reasons apart from abuse to require oversight.

- a country has a right imo to set a core curriculum, something all children should learn, the basics needed to function in society. Parents should include this in whatever else they teach and the government has a right to check this is happening

- State oversight can be supportive, and offer alternatives when parents can’t provide some aspect of their child’s education

- parents can overestimate themselves and find they don’t have what it takes. However they may not be willing to admit and need someone to tell them to send the kid back to school. 

- life happens! If a mum has a difficult pregnancy, homeschooling may really suffer. Or if a child developeds behavioral difficulties, and as a result takes away the attention from the other children in the family, this could be detrimental to schooling. House moves, deaths in the family or prolonged illness can all make a home a less than ideal place to study. Regular oversight can establish if the student is still able to have a satisfactory home education. 

- some teens may go out of control, and completely give up on learning when at home. Oversight by the state can back up the parents, in that a teen which refuses to learn at home will be required to go back to school.

But I agree that without criminalizing home schooling parents, it is important every child has some form of outside-of -family input and contact. If the parents don’t provide that, it should be required by the state.

[FilleMondaine]

6 minutes ago, foreign fundie said:

I recently had a chance to move to a nice country where homeschooling is illegal. I chose another country, and although there were many reasons for this, one certainly was that I wanted homeschooling to be an option.

Previously we had been in a situation where one of my children was very anxious about going to school and there were no good alternatives in our area. So I homeschooled till we moved again. Homeschooling was not my preference, but I realized that it could at some point be vital to my children’s well-being.

 Now all my children are happily enrolled in good schools, but I do feel that a parent should have the freedom, when seeing a child is not flourishing, to pull it out of school. Provided that the parent can provide a satisfactory education.

As for oversight, I would think that very reasonable. There are many reasons apart from abuse to require oversight.

- a country has a right imo to set a core curriculum, something all children should learn, the basics needed to function in society. Parents should include this in whatever else they teach and the government has a right to check this is happening

- State oversight can be supportive, and offer alternatives when parents can’t provide some aspect of their child’s education

- parents can overestimate themselves and find they don’t have what it takes. However they may not be willing to admit and need someone to tell them to send the kid back to school. 

- life happens! If a mum has a difficult pregnancy, homeschooling may really suffer. Or if a child developeds behavioral difficulties, and as a result takes away the attention from the other children in the family, this could be detrimental to schooling. House moves, deaths in the family or prolonged illness can all make a home a less than ideal place to study. Regular oversight can establish if the student is still able to have a satisfactory home education. 

- some teens may go out of control, and completely give up on learning when at home. Oversight by the state can back up the parents, in that a teen which refuses to learn at home will be required to go back to school.

But I agree that without criminalizing home schooling parents, it is important every child has some form of outside-of -family input and contact. If the parents don’t provide that, it should be required by the state.

These are EXACTLY the sorts of conversations we need to be having about homeschooling. Glad to have you around on the boards, @foreign fundie, being honest and thoughtful and forthright.