Turpins 2- California Torture House (Graphic content discussed)

[Crazy Enough to Join]

1 hour ago, Aine said:

There is a difference between "intelligent design" and creationism. There are some but not plenty PhD level scientists who do maintain religious belief and they believe that their higher power/being did intelligently design and have a hand in evolution. That God created the process. I think that's what the vast majority of religious people in general believe and even the Pope has endorsed this. I have no issue with that line of thinking even though it is not aligned with my own beliefs. 

Creationism in the way we're all talking about it (I think...) is the absolute denial of evolution and that humans and dinosaurs lived together and all the fossils that support the theory of evolution are there to "test their faith" and that scientists are part of a big conspiracy to fool everyone with all their evidence for evolution and how old the Earth is and carbon dating etc. 

I believe in the last wide polling that was done of PhD level scientists, over 90% did not identify with a religion (agnostic or atheist or spiritual). Those that actually practice SCIENCE, which does involve carbon dating and understanding how fossils come to be and how you can even demonstrate evolution in short periods of time with some specimens, and are religious generally don't struggle to reconcile that their God created these amazing and complex processes that have allowed so many living things to adapt and survive in such wondrous and genius ways in so many hugely varied environments around the world. 

There are 700 Ph.D. scientist members of the Creation Research Society alone I believe. I've personally met dozens of Ph.D. scientists who were young earth creationists (I used to hang out with a ton of scientists because of certain social ties.) I'm not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate since that's not the purpose of FJ. But I just hate to see inaccurate information passed around saying that 0 Ph.D. scientists believe in young earth creationism. I know very intelligent Ph.D. scientists on both sides of the issue and I respect both.

[formerhsfundie]

1 hour ago, metheglyn said:

While I had friends who did completely homeschool, and theoretically homeschooling might have been better for me emotionally in third grade than staying with that teacher, learning algebra from my mother taught both of us that if my mother had ever tried to formally homeschool me (my mother did actually teach in schools years before I was born, so was qualified) it would have been an utter disaster. I love my mother dearly, but due to specific personality issues around learning and how I handle feeling ignorant we do *NOT* gel well as a teacher-pupil pair.

This was me and my mother. Except she did homeschool me. And we had epic fights. It was brutal and I spent most of my childhood as the family scapegoat. At age 12 I quit even pretending to listen to her and figured out my education for myself. I don't have any idea what my father was doing, he outsourced most of the abuse to my mother.

Abusive family dynamics are so confusing, especially to the children caught in the middle of two unhealthy parents.

Homeschooling and isolation go hand in hand waaay too conveniently. Not sure my overall point, just, it's every bit as hellish as you'd imagine! And that's without chains. 

It's one thing to have a bad teacher you hate. It's another thing if that bad teacher you hate is your only teacher, and it's your mother, who also corporally disciplines you. 

[adidas]

1 hour ago, metheglyn said:

I had a third grade teacher who did not believe in negative numbers. I mean, she didn't believe they even existed and told me so

So what did she think happened on really cold days when it was below freezing temperature? How did she refer to that phenomenon?

What a crackpot!

[Lgirlrocks]

I was homeschooled until 8th grade. I hated it for many reasons but the biggest one was the isolation. I spent the day with my mom and brothers, not people my own age. My education also suffered greatly because my mom didn’t have time for myself and my younger brother. She spent all of her time taking my older brother to classes and sports games/ practices. She was all set to put my older brother in private school but went to a home school information meeting and loved that the kids their could talk to adults. I always excelled in reading and that was it. I was so far behind when I did go out for school, and the public school I went to was 5 years behind in their education.

I agree that homeschooling does need to be regulated to make sure no child falls behind their peers. Missouri is very lax in their home school laws and my mom never kept grades. We were allowed to repeat problems until we got them right, which helps I terms of getting more practice but doesn’t do anything to motivate the student to learn it right the first time. 

Home schooling your kids because it’s easier on you or because you want to issolate them for religious reasons is selfish. I have known people who have successfully home schooled their kids, it is a full time job, and ones that haven’t. 

[metheglyn]

24 minutes ago, adidas said:

So what did she think happened on really cold days when it was below freezing temperature? How did she refer to that phenomenon?

What a crackpot!

Honestly, I have no idea. She subsequently got bumped down to teaching younger students (somewhere from PreK to 1st grade is as specific as I remember) and did better with them, but I don't even know how she could have graduated from university (probably in the UK) without at least having to learn about negative numbers somewhere in there. After all, I'd been learning about them in 2nd grade. Maybe she was trying to make me not want to do more complex math than everyone else in the class, and thus making stuff up, but both my mother and I specifically remember her saying that "there's no such thing as negative numbers" and being flabbergasted. I mean, how could she possibly have qualified to teach in an international school no less, with that kind of attitude or belief?

[Otto Titsling]

@bird Consider the state that I live in. I live in Michigan. If you started at the bottom of the state and drove the entire state to the top, it would take 6-7 hours. If you then wanted to drive across the upper peninsula, it would take another 6-7 hours. You encounter rural farming counties, suburbia, and some of the most crime ridden cities in the country in just my state alone. I'm lucky that my (more or less) suburban county has outstanding services for special needs children. Less than an hour away-Detroit. There are schools up there with rats running on the floors and in the halls. A few years ago, sometimes teachers weren't getting paid on time or checks were bouncing. Sometimes it's not even the rural part that kills the schools, it's the make up of the student body. Because, let's face it, education dollars follow the white students. The poor black and brown kids don't count as much. It's a harsh truth, but there it is. And you better believe that Betsy DeVos couldn't give a shit about those kids either. 

My point is, this is the education problem that we face in just this one state. And there are 49 others that I'm sure have their own set of circumstances and problems. It's kind of sad that we can't seem to do better as a nation. I think it's one of our biggest shames. 

[metheglyn]

53 minutes ago, formerhsfundie said:

This was me and my mother. Except she did homeschool me. And we had epic fights. It was brutal and I spent most of my childhood as the family scapegoat. At age 12 I quit even pretending to listen to her and figured out my education for myself. I don't have any idea what my father was doing, he outsourced most of the abuse to my mother.

Abusive family dynamics are so confusing, especially to the children caught in the middle of two unhealthy parents.

Homeschooling and isolation go hand in hand waaay too conveniently. Not sure my overall point, just, it's every bit as hellish as you'd imagine! And that's without chains. 

It's one thing to have a bad teacher you hate. It's another thing if that bad teacher you hate is your only teacher, and it's your mother, who also corporally disciplines you. 

Agreed. I do have an overall positive relationship with my mother, so if we had gelled well as teacher and pupil homeschooling could potentially have been a positive experience. But since we don't gel in that particular way I could see how our relationship could have become a bit more toxic if we were constantly fighting like what would have probably happened if she tried to homeschool me full time.  And if the relationship is ALREADY toxic, I could definitely see how homeschooling, especially isolated homeschooling, could seriously intensify the opportunities for long-term damage. 

[Black Aliss]

9 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Regarding religion, the sister said on 20/20 that they left their Pentecostal church but researched other religions, including I believe she said witchcraft? So whatever they were doing, it was almost like they made their own religion or borrowed from others if it was referenced at all. 

Which is true of many of the fundie families we discuss. It's not only about being able to declare your barn a church and your home a parsonage so you don't have to pay taxes on them but I think the main reason is that the headships have so little tolerance for differences of opinion that a family home church is the only option.

[Seahorse Wrangler]

2 hours ago, metheglyn said:

I had a third grade teacher who did not believe in negative numbers. I mean, she didn't believe they even existed and told me so, despite my having learned to use them in 2nd grade at a different school.

We are Anglophones living in Quebec.

 

Sounds like Seacolt's 4th grade ESL teacher. Newly passed his degree and was trying to impress the parents' at PTA. When he told me that it wasn't a problem that he was just ahead of his students in learning English, he was shocked that I was horrified.

 

And when he said that he expected SC to be his helper, I laid down the law. Previously the Seafillies and Seacolt had been asked not to over-answer since the other pupils then didn't bother learning as they could rely on one of our children answering. It got to the stage where the fillies  didn't study English because they were too advanced for their grade level. And I didn't want the colt to be dragged backwards by supplementing the teacher's inexperience.

[Beermeet]

1 hour ago, Lgirlrocks said:

I was homeschooled until 8th grade. I hated it for many reasons but the biggest one was the isolation. I spent the day with my mom and brothers, not people my own age. My education also suffered greatly because my mom didn’t have time for myself and my younger brother. She spent all of her time taking my older brother to classes and sports games/ practices. She was all set to put my older brother in private school but went to a home school information meeting and loved that the kids their could talk to adults. I always excelled in reading and that was it. I was so far behind when I did go out for school, and the public school I went to was 5 years behind in their education.

I agree that homeschooling does need to be regulated to make sure no child falls behind their peers. Missouri is very lax in their home school laws and my mom never kept grades. We were allowed to repeat problems until we got them right, which helps I terms of getting more practice but doesn’t do anything to motivate the student to learn it right the first time. 

Home schooling your kids because it’s easier on you or because you want to issolate them for religious reasons is selfish. I have known people who have successfully home schooled their kids, it is a full time job, and ones that haven’t. 

I really liked what you shared, thank you.  It made me think in a crystal clear way ( to me at least, lol!) as to why homeschooling can, in what it seems like to me, overwhelmingly fundies with an attitude of "don't bother me evil government!!!1!11!!"  I really liked the poster who said their country has a universal system whether public or homeschooled.  Light bulb!  Yes, of course!  A great idea, imo.  Whether HS or public we do teach our children all sorts of stuff at home anyway.  Nothing will change except a universal guidline and requirements.   Sounds like a win-win, to me.

[JillyO]

58 minutes ago, Otto Titsling said:

My point is, this is the education problem that we face in just this one state. And there are 49 others that I'm sure have their own set of circumstances and problems. It's kind of sad that we can't seem to do better as a nation. I think it's one of our biggest shames. 

It seems to me that many of the problems America's school system faces are due to the fact that public schools are funded through local taxes. If schools were instead funded on a state or even federal level, there wouldn't be such grave differences between schools in poor and rich (black and white) neighborhoods. People wouldn't need to pay horrendous housing costs to be in a better school district, or to be in a school disctrict that offers proper special ed classes, or whatever. I know that it would be hard to change because people who own property in good school districts will surely fight tooth and nail to defend their properties' value. But come on, how sad is that?

[BlackSheep]

2 hours ago, metheglyn said:

I had a third grade teacher who did not believe in negative numbers. I mean, she didn't believe they even existed and told me so, despite my having learned to use them in 2nd grade at a different school.

In school, math was always my weakest subject. It intimidated me. It was the bane of my existence. English grammar and lit? French? Spanish? Latin? I loved them and consistently did very well. History was mostly boring, but not intimidating. Science was challenging at times, but interesting.

Math and I never clicked. It's as if I wasn't wired for it. But even I, the perennial math struggler, understand how and why negative numbers exist and why they're necessary.

It's baffling how your teacher got away with not teaching part of the curriculum, based on an irrational* personal belief.

*math pun!

[Seahorse Wrangler]

19 minutes ago, BlackSheep said:

 

Math and I never clicked. It's as if I wasn't wired for it. But even I, the perennial math struggler, understand how and why negative numbers exist and why they're necessary.

 

Me too. I managed to shove enough math into by brain to pass an 'O' level. I never wanted to go further even though it meant limiting my prospective university studies.The fact I failed my 'A' levels stopped that as a potential path at the time.

 

As a former scientist, the math I used on daily basis was second nature until I had to explain it.  I'm  a do-er not a teacher.

[HoneyBunny]

43 minutes ago, JillyO said:

It seems to me that many of the problems America's school system faces are due to the fact that public schools are funded through local taxes. If schools were instead funded on a state or even federal level, there wouldn't be such grave differences between schools in poor and rich (black and white) neighborhoods. People wouldn't need to pay horrendous housing costs to be in a better school district, or to be in a school disctrict that offers proper special ed classes, or whatever. I know that it would be hard to change because people who own property in good school districts will surely fight tooth and nail to defend their properties' value. But come on, how sad is that?

Welcome to America 2018. That, in a nutshell, about far more than property values, is why we are where we are. 

[Lgirlrocks]

To many people that home school, and their kids, use the argument that public and privates schools don’t teach everything. They aren’t supposed to. Parents have things that they should want to teach their kids and need to teach them. 

I was lucky enough to have friends that went out for school and who weren’t saved. I knew to many people that would never let their kids hang out with someone that wasn’t being raised like them. 

[iweartanktops]

Why the fuck are people so eager to identify these children? I understand curiosity, but damn. These kids have been through so much. None of them, including those over 18, need to see their names all over the internet in the future! 

[KnittingOwl]

3 hours ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

There are 700 Ph.D. scientist members of the Creation Research Society alone I believe. I've personally met dozens of Ph.D. scientists who were young earth creationists (I used to hang out with a ton of scientists because of certain social ties.) I'm not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate since that's not the purpose of FJ. But I just hate to see inaccurate information passed around saying that 0 Ph.D. scientists believe in young earth creationism. I know very intelligent Ph.D. scientists on both sides of the issue and I respect both.

The US awarded over 52,000 PhD degrees last year (source). Granted, those aren’t all science degrees, but I can’t actually access the NSF statistics on scientist PhDs due to the shutdown, but 700 is substantially less than 1% of all PhD-trained scientists in the US. 

I am one of the scientists with a PhD. I don’t know any others who believe in young-earth creationism. It’s just not as prevalent as you want people to believe. 

[FundamentallyShocked]

Before we start on a "ban homeschooling" crusade, please stop for a moment and realize how many homeschooling families there are. There are more than you imagine. A lot more! We are one of them...and a K-12 family, too. Most do a wonderful job tailoring learning for their children. Homeschooling did not cause the Turpin abuse to happen. Evidently, the oldest one or ones presented as dirty, odd, and neglected in public school, but that didn't trigger a report or any follow up.

Why did we homeschool? It wasn't to isolate or abuse our kids, for sure :-)

It started because kid #1 was going to be a pill in school because he could already read well in Kinder and would be the class clown. But, after a couple of years, we found we really liked it. It fit well with our family. There are all kinds of wonderful curricula that guide your through the material. We just had to be faithful to do school each day. It was a wonderful experience. PM me if you'd like details of what we used or how the kids have turned out. (And in high school, we hired teachers for what I couldn't handle myself.)

I've seen all kinds of homeschooling families. Some are amazing and their kids are well-educated. Some do a so-so job; these same families would be so-so public school families...they just don't value education as I do. I've seen a few overwhelmed families who I wished would send a kid or two to ps. I've seen a few where the kids would respond better to someone other than mom. I've also met someone who homeschooled because she couldn't get her teen out of bed for school.

However, we can all say, I sure, that some families value education more than others do in public school settings. Some families let their kids slack off in the local high school. Some families are overwhelmed despite their kids going to public school. And some kids don't learn effectively from certain kinds of teachers. And some teens consistently miss school or sleep through classes in public school. The same problems with how committed families are to educating their kids are present in home, private, and public school settings. Yes, teachers might notice problems in a certain family that a homeschooling family might hide, but the problems are not unique to homeschooling families.

Am I a classroom teacher?  NO! I have no clue how to manage a class of 25 with diverse learning needs. But, I could daily see where my kids were excelling and struggling. I could slow down or speed up as needed. It works; it's not classroom teaching, but it is learning! Just because we homeschooled  does not mean that I denigrate public schools or public school teachers. We just strongly felt that our kids would benefit from personalized education.

Should homeschooling be regulated? Yes. It should not be possible to hide your kids. Should there be some kind of annual or biannual assessment? Yes. And a standardized test is fine; that's what public schooled kids get and it's fine for homeschooled kids, too. (Although I found it a pain to match ps tests to what we did at home.) Should kids be assessed more than once a year? Maybe, but definitely if a previous evaluation showed a problem. Should a homeschooling family submit to a home visit? No, not without cause. Nor should a public schooled family be forced to accept an inspection without cause.

What did my state do to regulate homeschools? Almost nothing. I had to register and say we would test yearly. They never followed up on whether we tested or what those score were. And I'm in a high regulation state! LOL

But, please, do not think that this hideous family is a good reason to crack down on what works for a lot of families. But, consider this an opportunity to evaluate how we respond when we see something that is off. Consider this an opportunity to evaluate how a ps district can evaluate and assist homeschooling families effectively and usefully.

How do homeschoolers view people like the Turpin or Nogs? We would say they are not homeschoolers at all....they are torturers or truants. Homeschooling is a VERB. It is work and it takes discipline and sacrifice. The Turpins never sacrificed for their kids. The Nogs also put parent-needs over child-needs, with a healthy dose of poverty and mental illness thrown in for good measure.

The Rods and Duggars?  Most would say that are "sort of" homeschooling. There isn't a lot of diligent or rigor or effort on the part of the parents. I watched the Duggars long enough to see how they homeschooled and once I saw what they used, I laughed and turned the channel. The Rods are even worse. The kids in those families are getting the kind of education that the worst of failing schools serve up. I'm as sad for them as I am for kids in failing schools. We are setting them up to fail as adults.

So, I written an (unintended) book tonight. Sorry. The horrid story raises so many emotions. Some are triggered, some are horrified, some are motivated to "do something", some want to change laws, and some can only weep over these poor children. May this situation not be like gun-control: everyone wants to change laws after a mass shooting incident and then the horror fades and we lose the drive to alter our society. May we remain vigilant on behalf of the vulnerable in our society.

(Hitting submit before I erase this missive.)

[SoybeanQueen]

11 hours ago, bird said:

My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

It depends on where they live. I can tell you from experience that it absolutely was the best choice to homeschool my son who has autism, information processing disorder, and dylexia/dyscalculia. I asked the school in January 2014 to evaluate him for special education services. They did, slowly, and then told me he was not eligible because he was normal. He was failing 3rd grade. He couldn't read. We live outside of a small, rural community. There are no dedicated special ed teachers in the K-8 school nearest us. He wouldn't have been eligible in the next town over, 20 miles away, either, because they share the same district psychologist, who declared him perfectly fine.

We removed him from the school in March, and I went back to basic reading and math with him. I tested him on all of the math concepts for kindergarten, 1st, and 2nd grade before we went on to 3rd and 4th grade. We repeated anything he struggled with. I researched reading programs for dyslexic students and worked through an intensive program with him. I took him several times a month to the city, 2 hours away, to be evaluated by psychiatrists and neuropsychologists at the children's hospital, and incorporated their advice into what we did at home.

He hated school when we pulled him out, because school kind of sucks when you're flunking, so we based his science and history lessons on things he really liked - cars, planes, and baseball. He could describe the Bernoulli effect, talk about how Jackie Robinson changed baseball, and describe the basic parts of a motor.

By the time he went back into public school, he could read and do math on grade level. He was reading and writing for fun, something he had never done before.

Even now, with a documented learning disability (thanks to the children's hospital) that qualifies him automatically for an IEP, we had to practically fight with the school to give him any time with a para. He gets 30 minutes with a trained special education teacher per week. She is only at the school once a week. She also doesn't seem to understand his background of neglect, and has been asking around about whether we feed him enough, so I'm expected a call from CPS at some point. Not a problem, because I'll just let them watch him eat 7 bowls of soup for dinner and say he's still hungry. Case closed. The para he can work with for an hour and a half per day has only a high school diploma. I don't say that to be rude, but many people assume these are highly trained specialists. They're not, at least not here.

We live in one of the "no oversight" states. I know there are families that don't do much, homeschool-wise. However, four of our homeschool group families have sent kids to public high school in the last 2 years. All of them have transitioned seamlessly, with no need to repeat classes. I guarantee my son received a better education at home than he got or is getting in public school. Sports are the only thing keeping my older kids in public school.

I'm also getting ready to teach another homeschool writing class, where students come to my house weekly to work on essays, creative writing, contrasting books the group has read recently, etc. I have a waiting list for this class currently.

[FecundFundieFundus]

Beautifully put, @FundamentallyShocked.

Pretty sure you're the mom I aspire to be, @SoybeanQueen. I'm petrified of navigating the school system and fighting for the best IEP. 

[Aine]

3 hours ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

There are 700 Ph.D. scientist members of the Creation Research Society alone I believe. I've personally met dozens of Ph.D. scientists who were young earth creationists (I used to hang out with a ton of scientists because of certain social ties.) I'm not trying to start a creation vs. evolution debate since that's not the purpose of FJ. But I just hate to see inaccurate information passed around saying that 0 Ph.D. scientists believe in young earth creationism. I know very intelligent Ph.D. scientists on both sides of the issue and I respect both.

I'd be interested to know exactly where they got their PhDs and also what field they specialize in- and by that I don't just mean biology/chemistry/physics etc but the specific sub-fields of various sciences. I'm going to guess possibly small or Christian universities, that may be accredited but are not rigorous and don't require a certain amount of studies published in peer-reviewed journals for graduation as well as a dissertation. For example, in my PhD program at a flagship university in a science that some people who aren't super involved in the field consider 'soft' (the field is definitely moving away from most things that are considered soft- especially in quality peer-reviewed journals), I'd be literally laughed out of my program and quite likely put on some sort of probation if I even CONSIDERED teaching an intro course and espoused any kind of view that deviated from an understanding of evolution. Seriously, my advisor would drop me like a hot potato. End of my path to a PhD...he can do that too because it isn't discrimination, I'd be showing a complete lack of scientific knowledge that is affecting the education of my students.

I never said that 0 PhD scientists believe in creationism. But define "PhD scientist"? Is it someone working at an R1 research facility? What field do they specifically specialize in? Do they actually work in academia? Many people with PhDs do not for a variety of reasons and some of those reasons in no way undermine their qualification but if they aren't working in the field because they have had some sort of "epiphany" that literally denies thousands of solid published research studies that support evolution and have "realized" the Bible was correct (supported by no quality peer-reviewed rigorous evidence), then they aren't a scientist. Here's the thing about science and scientists- we need to keep an open mind and be willing to constantly change, alter, or expand our understanding of things based on well-run, methodologically sound, rigorous, and peer-reviewed studies. This is especially so when they are replicated. Any belief that evolution is not the best explanation of how we and all the living things around us currently came to be would be not doing science. You get that right? I'm not saying there aren't a few crazy renegades out there who got tenure and then had their "epiphany" or that there aren't PhDs at tiny universities, especially those with a religious foundation, who have the luxury of literally not doing their job as a scientist and remain dogmatic to non-evidence-based ideas- but they are not people working in R1 institutions. They are not the people being published in prestigious journals, the people doing cutting edge research, the people passing the in depth criticism and analysis of their peers to get published. 

Like I said, many true scientists can and do believe that God has a hand in how all of these things have unfolded- and what an unbelievably complex and intricate world He created, with such marvelous processes, if he did. But you will find that you are absolutely incorrect if you think there are plenty that believe in the "BOOM- now they were all there fully formed in a day" stuff. 700 is NOT A LOT. How many PhDs in various fields of science do you think are given out every year? Look, I don't know a solid number, but in my R1 large flagship university, I'd take a guess that around 100-110 were handed out in the science fields last year when you added them all together. Maybe 3-10 in each cohort of various programs and tracks. Take that nationwide to PhD-granting universities that are accredited. Add those that aren't accredited (John Shrader's "education", anyone?). Then times that over years and years. 700 crackpots is a TINY percentage, especially when PhDs are usually very very focussed on one specific field within a larger field of a science and they definitely don't all have expert knowledge on evolution.

[Otto Titsling]

@HoneyBunny you're exactly right. People would rather be dipped in boiling oil than see school tax dollars spread evenly among districts to help the disadvantaged or attract better talent to the districts that need it most. But, they are the first to complain about crime and poverty in those districts. It breaks my heart that the family, Christian values that are preached by many only go as far as the district line. 

John Oliver did a great piece school integration and funding. If you're interested, it's on YouTube. 

[Aine]

1 hour ago, KnittingOwl said:

The US awarded over 52,000 PhD degrees last year (source). Granted, those aren’t all science degrees, but I can’t actually access the NSF statistics on scientist PhDs due to the shutdown, but 700 is substantially less than 1% of all PhD-trained scientists in the US. 

I am one of the scientists with a PhD. I don’t know any others who believe in young-earth creationism. It’s just not as prevalent as you want people to believe. 

Thanks, @KnittingOwl- I didn't have time to look up links etc so thank you! I didn't see your reply before I posted mine. 

I have never ever met a single PhD candidate or someone with their PhD in a science related field, including those who are quite conservative Christian and have families who do believe in young-Earth creationism, that believe in young-earth creationism themselves. Not one. I do know some that believe God created all these processes that they study (again, not many) and that's fine. In fact, in my conservative uber-Christian state, the ONLY people who I believe when they say they feel like a minority and sometimes looked down upon for being Christian are PhD students in the sciences. I don't think discriminated against but while I sometimes fear for my life if it were public that I was an atheist (if I was loud-mouthed about it), they definitely are hesitant to share their mostly very moderate religious beliefs when surrounded by a bunch of scientists. 

As a clarification: I'm highly involved in our PhD group/club on campus and have loads of friends pursuing PhDs in the sciences and the humanities. I am in psychology/neuroscience in a department that is dogmatic about evidence-based practice/knowledge (so no Freud for us except for historical context!). Some of my best friends are in Biology, Chemistry, and Physics (what they actually do is so specific and awesome and complicated that I feel bad ever just saying "They're in biology" haha). I go to conferences regularly and I have worked in one of the largest research hospitals in the country a couple of hours away for the past 2 years doing research. I know a lot of PhDs even though I'm being very anecdotal right now  

[xlurker]

Quote

 

Home schooling---while there are those that do so to isolate and take advantage of children there are many many families that choose to do so for their childs best interest.  Common Core and No Child Left behind can be wonderful, but they also lack.  In my case it held my kids back.  (NCLB, both had graduated just as CC was taking off)  Even when tracked for harder courses, many kids that need a challenge arent getting it.  That tends to lead to boredom which can lead to being a class clown or worse.  I choose for a year to home school, and every year, from K-12 to supplement what the school taught in any way I possibly could.  Do I think every child deserves to be taught?  Without a doubt!  I also think that each child deserves to be challenged, and that the love of learning and curiosity should never be pushed aside.  Am I incredibly lucky that this was my problem?  yes, yes I am.  My point is every family is different, and there are many families that home school for a myriad of reasons, and none of those reasons are abuse.  You just dont hear about them, you hear about the horror stories.   

My heart breaks for these kids, and for any child that is hurt and hungry and uncared for.  These type of things should never be allowed to happen.  I dont know the answers, and for those that would do things such as this, well, I think they will always find a way to cause hurt and pain.

[SoybeanQueen]

5 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

However, I also think that teachers need to stop rushing through lessons when other kids are getting left behind. That's NOT learning and it's NOT fair. I think the common core has helped to put more pressure on the teachers to make sure every student is understanding what's going on. I also think that teachers should be held account on performance. It's uncomfortable to know that some teachers are continuing to have their students struggle yet continue to pop in movies and assign group work projects instead of educate and still be there teaching for decades. "Interactive, dynamic learning" my ass, it's lazy teaching so the teacher can text or catch up on gossip with Mr/Ms. Marple in the hall. I say that example from COUNTLESS of personal experiences. The states that issue the tough standardized exams and the school districts need to be on the same page. If one is not measuring up, changes need to be made.

This is exactly why many U.S. homeschoolers don't want the state or nation to have more oversight into what happens in their home school. The public school system is broken in many ways. Why would I want their requirements put on to my (hypothetical) homeschooled kid? Also, I disagree that homeschool parents are just teaching to the test for ACT/SAT. Just like any other student, homeschooled kids can take test prep courses. My public schooled niece is taking an ACT prep class in her public school now.

As for the tele-classes mentioned (don't recall if that was you or someone else), that is already possible. Synchronous video classes are used in some of the online public and private schools. However, synchronous learning takes away a lot of the advantage of scheduling freedom in homeschool. I looked at the k12 online schools when I thought we might be living abroad for a while. Ultimately I decided that the live video classes would render spontaneous adventures impossible, and I didn't want that when we would be in a place that offered so many opportunities for learning outside of the house.

I know a family that does their schooling by synchronous teleclasses and videos.  I could never do it. There are so many fun ways to learn besides sitting in front of a screen. Even in our small community there are co-ops to do classes with a lab component or to be able to discuss books with other students around the same age or grade level.