Turpins 2- California Torture House (Graphic content discussed)

[foreign fundie]

When at one point I took my children out of government school to a private school no less, we were summoned to the School office. We did not know why. My husband went with the children. Then he was asked to leave and police came in. They questioned our children asking them if they were abused at home. My children were first freaked out by the police, then completely puzzled about what they wanted and when they finally understood (the police barely spoke English and my children had never heard the word for ‘abuse’ in the local language) they burst into giggles. It was all rather absurd. I suspect the school wanted to cover their asses in case we were a crazy family, as we had to sign papers they were no longer responsible for my children’s well-being. Also I wondered if they considered us a risk group because we were foreigners. Later I heard it was standard procedure for all children leaving the state system. It was meant to discourage parents from doing so. Still I was not impressed.

I agree that children should not be able to disappear off the radar. But I don’t think this kind of intervention would have picked out any children who really were abused. And putting families under suspicion for the sole reason they seek alternative education, I found unhelpful. 

So yes, I am in favor of oversight, but also of a positive approach (We want to help make sure the child reaches its potential)  rather then ‘You want to homeschool? Prove your not an abuser’

[HarleyQuinn]

2 hours ago, Sideways said:

Check this out.  Some man on FB has claimed knowing Jennifer Turpin in 3rd grade, at Meadowbrook Elementary school in Fort Worth.  Jennifer left the school that year.  He allegedly bullied her for being a "cooties" girl, as she was socially awkward and often wore the same clothes that smelled foul.  His post may give you mixed feelings, as it did for me.  It seems like her knew her, as corroborated by another older woman respondent, who appeared to have been an educator at the school.

https://www.facebook.com/taha618

That post sounds really pompous. I bet he does think about how she would've turned out if he and his classmates hadn't bullied her. 

[nelliebelle1197]

10 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

There really isn't a lot of new info on this at all.

So it is okay my flu-ridden self fell asleep half way through?

[nomoxian]

9 hours ago, Crazy Enough to Join said:

 Disclaimer, I do see the value of homeschooling children who have a specific special need that makes them unable to deal with the social environment of school.

I had the same viewpoint, especially when I was going through (suffering through!) school myself. 

But looking back, and seeing how Germany - a country that has outlawed homeschooling - I think if there is an issue, it should be solved in the community. If a kid is being bullied, the solution should not be to isolate them. If a kid has issues with learning, then they should get tutoring after regular school, or be placed in a smaller classroom with a teacher specialized in learning differences, or get 1-1 attention with the ability to still socialize during gym, recess and lunch, even if that is highly supervised in cases of behavioral issues.

[FilleMondaine]

3 hours ago, foreign fundie said:

 

So yes, I am in favor of oversight, but also of a positive approach (We want to help make sure the child reaches its potential)  rather then ‘You want to homeschool? Prove your not an abuser’

I can certainly agree with you that a more positive approach would be better. But as a torture survivor, I have to respect the school's protocol. Yes, it was a bother for you, but it was probably life-saving for others. I guess it comes down to this: how much discomfort are you willing to experience through protocol so that the community's children are not abused, tortured, or killed? 

Moving onto the the positive, I fully recommend again Coalition for Responsible Homeschooling, which seeks to find a positive solution for homeschool oversight for the protection of children and also the support of children seeking sports or educational boosts.

[FilleMondaine]

Oh! And HERE is a factsheet from childwelfare.gov telling you exactly what signs to look for. Many people on the thread were wanting something tangible they could look at when evaluating if something is "of". 

Between that, and basic needs list from @luv2laugh, (another one from women against abuse is here)

List of signs, below:

INDICATORS OF PHYSICAL ABUSE – CHILD

Unexplained bruises, welts, human bite marks, bald spots

Numerous bruises in various stages of healing

Marks on many surfaces of the body

Unexplained burns, especially cigarette or immersion burns

Withdrawal or aggression – behavioral extremes

Uncomfortable with physical contact

Afraid to go home

Dressed inappropriately for the weather

Cringes when approached by an adult (fears getting hit)

Overreacts to accidents such as spilling milk

Does not want to talk about home life

Extreme attachment to parents

Extreme attentiveness to needs of parents

INDICATORS OF PHYSICAL ABUSE – PARENT

Contradictory statements about child's injury

Excessive anxiety about child's behavior

Labels child as a “problem”

Says child makes up stories and that child should not be believed

Verbally aggressive toward child

INDICATORS OF SEXUAL ABUSE – CHILD

Pain or itching in genital area

Bruises or bleeding in external genitalia

Frequent urinary or yeast infections

Torn, stained or bloody underclothing

Venereal disease

A child's report or self-disclosure

Sexual knowledge beyond what is natural for a child

Preoccupation with their body

Acting out sexual behavior

Withdrawal, chronic depression

Self-devaluation and lack of confidence

Problems with bedtime or afraid to go to bed

Bedwetting – especially if it begins in a child who has been dry

INDICATORS OF SEXUAL ABUSE – PARENT

Poor sexual relationship between parents

Frequent changes of adults in household

Lack of supervision of child

Parent relates to child on adult level

Parent is jealous of child's relationship with others

Parent is overly possessive of child

INDICATORS OF NEGLECT OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE – CHILD

Unattended medical needs

Consistent lack of supervision

Persistent hunger, poor hygiene or inappropriate dress

Distended stomach or emaciated body

Delayed physical development

Substance abuse

Regularly displays fatigue or listlessness

Steals food or begs

Habit disorders (sucking, rocking, etc.)

Passive or aggressive behavior extremes

Neurotic traits such as sleep disorders or inhibition of play

INDICATORS OF NEGLECT OR PSYCHOLOGICAL ABUSE – PARENT

Disinterest in or rejection of child

Deserting or avoiding child

Threatening child, yelling, and/or screaming at child

Ignoring medical problems of child

Constant criticism of child, making negative comparison with other children

Embarrassing children in public or making child feel ashamed or guilty

Isolating child from society or normal friendships

Placing child in dangerous situations

Blaming child for situations not within child’s control

Failing to meet child's physical/emotional needs

(Edited to source the list: http://www.pa-fsa.org/About-Us/Understanding-Child-Abuse-Neglect-in-Pennsylvania/Recognizing-Abuse-Neglect)

[nausicaa]

14 hours ago, snickerz said:

I've read that the kids were forced to memorize big chunks of the Bible, and some trying to memorize the whole thing. Sounds religious to me.

Yes, however that is the only thing we have so far. The police stated in the press conference that there were not religious motivations and there was nothing religious on the Facebook page or in the photos. I wonder if the Bible could have been randomly chosen as a difficult and long book they had easy access to and the memorization a form of punishment.

I just think we shouldn't jump on the "OMG Vision Forum!" train without more evidence. And God knows I loathe Doug Phillips and his ilk. 

[SoGladIWasCofE]

Religion can be a factor without nessarily being the cause of the abuse.

In a lot of these cases it's kind of an incidental or a cover.

They probably didn't think God wanted them to chain the children up.

But the perception of the family as a nice Christian family (at least by the grandparents) may have covered for the abuse. The blurring of protective with controlling is an issue.

[nausicaa]

11 hours ago, church_of_dog said:

Apparently he worked the night shift.  And I guess there is a wide range of "normal" for engineers...  Although I won't be surprised if stories start popping up from co-workers.

Someone on Websleuths pointed out that this would be a perfect job for him. He is likely isolated from others, even if he works in an office, and so his strange mannerisms and poor hygiene would not be as noticed. He would also be able to supervise the household via phone calls and even a webcam. And yes, I'm also waiting for co-worker stories...

20 minutes ago, SoGladIWasCofE said:

Religion can be a factor without nessarily being the cause of the abuse.

Agreed. I'm not defending religion here, so much as pointing out to people who wanted to label the whole thing as religious extremism like the Yearning for Zion ranch, that we just don't have that evidence for that yet.

People expressed surprise that they would watch mainstream movies, but from what I've seen so far, they had no problem with secular society.

[bird]

1 hour ago, nomoxian said:

I had the same viewpoint, especially when I was going through (suffering through!) school myself. 

But looking back, and seeing how Germany - a country that has outlawed homeschooling - I think if there is an issue, it should be solved in the community. If a kid is being bullied, the solution should not be to isolate them. If a kid has issues with learning, then they should get tutoring after regular school, or be placed in a smaller classroom with a teacher specialized in learning differences, or get 1-1 attention with the ability to still socialize during gym, recess and lunch, even if that is highly supervised in cases of behavioral issues.

This is what I wanted to ask! A lot of people defending homeschooling write about children with special or additional needs not fitting into mainstream schools. My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

[Nikedagain?]

19 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

And yes, I'm also waiting for co-worker stories...

Wonder why there hasn't been a single one?

[church_of_dog]

8 hours ago, Milly-Molly-Mandy said:

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2018/jan/19/california-turpin-13-children-rescued-future

aplogies if posted I can’t keep up. Mentions the Hale family who we follow. 

The 20/20 show from last night also interviewed the mother and some of the sons from the Wolfpack, a story and documentary that we have discussed on fj.  I found the update encouraging and the similarities to the Turpins fascinating (as well as heartbreaking).

There is a link on Websleuths to watch the 20/20 show online, but I can't find it just now.

1 minute ago, Nikedagain? said:

Wonder why there hasn't been a single one?

It's early yet...

[FilleMondaine]

The Guardian published a story this morning on "what happens now" for the kiddos and adult survivors

Some highlights:

• Parents were brought into court in shackles and chains (some of this community really wanted for them to experience that...I'm including myself if I'm honest)
• Linguistics professor who worked with Genie offered some insight (professor continues to work with traumatized children)
• Clinical counselors and mental health professionals also offer insight
• Comparisons and updates on similar-ish stories of abuse and survival

 

 

[FecundFundieFundus]

9 minutes ago, bird said:

This is what I wanted to ask! A lot of people defending homeschooling write about children with special or additional needs not fitting into mainstream schools. My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

Because it's not always available? Not every special ed department is fully staffed with caring, attentive teachers qualified and prepared to help special needs children achieve their full potential. Some, sure. All or even most? Hahahaha. No. 

My son is not school age. He spends 6-10 hours a week in therapy appointments. This is partially covered by the state but still costs us about half what our rent is every month. He also has lots of specialist medical appointments, which are not cheap. Traveling to get the best surgeon? Not cheap. We're wealthy (in our eyes, anyway) and can afford it with budgeting. Most families around here are not as fortunate as we are. Those are the kids who will go without the services they need to reach their potential. 

We live in a city with cheaper cost of living and we've been repeatedly warned that we need to move before his therapeutic care/oversight is transferred from the state to the local school district. There isn't any money, the need vastly outweighs the available services, and it's just not where you live if you have a choice. 

Families wealthier than ours have fought tooth and nail with their school districts to get their kids what they are owed by law. It's exhausting, it's tedious, it's complicated, you have to pay lawyers... And sometimes you lose or can't wait the years for the legal battle (because your child is suffering while this is going on) and need to move to a different school district (sometimes necessitating change in jobs, house, downsizing to afford a better area, the whole shebang). 

Basically, for middle class families and below, raising a child with special needs is two full time jobs: parenting a high(/er) needs child and battling multiple institutions. Disability rights, parental leave, the healthcare system in America all suck. 

 

[SapphireSlytherin]

25 minutes ago, Nikedagain? said:

Wonder why there hasn't been a single one?

Depending on the security requirements of working for a defense contractor, his coworkers may not be allowed to speak. 

[Seren Ann]

39 minutes ago, bird said:

This is what I wanted to ask! A lot of people defending homeschooling write about children with special or additional needs not fitting into mainstream schools. My question is surely these are the children who need specialist schools with teachers trained to meet their educational needs? Are there not schools equipped for children with things like ASD etc? Why do parents feel that homeschooling is their best option? 

I'll just answer for myself and for my country but where I live, there are a few very inadequate measures like special classes for gifted kids in private schools (not in public schools) but mostly there is no help, teachers are overwhelmed with too many students and not enough resources, there is only one part time nurse for a whole school, and no therapists at all. It is also very difficult and a constant fight for parents to be heard by teachers when they have children in need of special help like children on the spectrum. 

I was a kid who was very, very unhappy in school. When I was 7-8 years old,I  was extremely bored, the teacher singled me out and humiliated me repeatedly in front of the class (had my parents gone to her asking for special adjustments for me I am certain she would not have listened). I ended up so terrified of class that I would shake and cry every day, and every morning before school I would feel physical pain in my belly from the terror at the thought of having to return to school. After that, I could not adapt to classes well, and I was well on my way to giving up and being what we call a schooling failure here. My parents pulled me out of school and homeschooled me and it was a revelation. I could work at my speed, I was so happy not to have to deal with the pressure of school. I really flourished in a home environment.

The thing is, I have not been diagnosed with anything. I was quite a bright and sensitive child, but I'm now a completely average adult, with some anxiety issues due to all the stress I was under as a child. I don't think I would have qualified for any special help. Public school just wasn't a good fit for me.

In my opinion, a country like Germany is taking away families' freedom. It is frightening for me when the state interferes and regulates every single thing so rigidly. We human beings are incredibly variable individuals. One size fits all will always crush any who do not fit the mould. Until we have an absolutely perfect education system, with very small class sizes and responsive teachers who know how to deal with every different type of child they might encounter (and oh how far away we are from these ideals), I think banning homeschooling is very damaging.

On the other hand, no one came to check on us when we were homeschooled. My parents could have been abusing us and no one would have noticed. Nowadays, instead of instituting checks on children in their home environment to see that they are doing ok, the government is focusing on forcing everyone to follow public school programs, which is ridiculous and absurd, as if they were truly the be all end all of education. As a former homeschooled child, I think the best thing would be for a social worker or someone qualified to come into the home and talk to the children and check the family once a year, maybe a doctor's visit once a year to make sure children aren't in obvious ill health that would have been noticed in school, and to have tests about every 2 years to check children are advancing to a reasonable level in core subjects like reading, writing, maths, science.

[HarleyQuinn]

Regarding religion, the sister said on 20/20 that they left their Pentecostal church but researched other religions, including I believe she said witchcraft? So whatever they were doing, it was almost like they made their own religion or borrowed from others if it was referenced at all. 

[MarblesMom]

52 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

And yes, I'm also waiting for co-worker stories...

Might be waiting on these.... everywhere (big) that I have worked had a clause in the Handbook that employees were not to speak to the media about anything having to do with the company.... I had to release one fellow who meant no harm, but broke the policy.

Turpin's employer might have the same policy.

[FilleMondaine]

As @FecundFundieFundus and @Seren Ann say, our teachers are overwhelmed. (I was an educator before I became a social worker) There was care and love, but it is almost impossible to adequately care when working with impossible requests. Under Trump and Education Secretary DeVos, the care and education of special needs children have been insulted even more! Both funds and guidance have been removed. Not cool, Don and Betsy! 

It has recently become acceptable to openly disparage teachers and to make education a partisan issue. (It used to be social death to be against educators, but not anymore....sigh)

Things to think about as school levies are proposed, and as we move into the 2018 elections. We have to support our schools, and we have to support the congress-critters who will help. 

 

[BullyJBG]

3 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

Might be waiting on these.... everywhere (big) that I have worked had a clause in the Handbook that employees were not to speak to the media about anything having to do with the company.... I had to release one fellow who meant no harm, but broke the policy.

Turpin's employer might have the same policy.

I was wondering about that; if they're scared of such consequences. If they have to be careful not to reveal the company they work for, or worked for. (makes me wonder how people can get away with venting about work on their social media, but that's another topic)

[bird]

14 minutes ago, FecundFundieFundus said:

Because it's not always available? Not every special ed department is fully staffed with caring, attentive teachers qualified and prepared to help special needs children achieve their full potential. Some, sure. All or even most? Hahahaha. No. 

 

I was expecting an answer like this as I hit submit- I'm really learning a lot about how things work in America now. I suppose I naively expected there to be provision for children who need specialist care/ education and that perhaps people were not making use of the service for other reasons. 

I'm sorry that you have to fight so hard for your son. 

[FilleMondaine]

4 minutes ago, MarblesMom said:

Might be waiting on these.... everywhere (big) that I have worked had a clause in the Handbook that employees were not to speak to the media about anything having to do with the company.... I had to release one fellow who meant no harm, but broke the policy.

Turpin's employer might have the same policy.

I agree with you. Dad does HR. Most on-boarding involves signing something that says that you will pass along media requests to HR. Personally, I have mixed feelings about the policy. But I respect the coworkers' rights to be able to be silent, and to provide an adequate response to any press so that they are not harassed. I suspect that there will be an internal investigation as well, due to this guy's crappy personal behavior that could put so many at risk (if clearances are involved, it is important to maintain a clean-nosed workforce so that a person is impervious to blackmail. Obviously, some investigator failed)

[Bad Wolf]

I read the Genie update. So  disheartening. They said that everyone who interacted with her was affected for life. This is true in our local case. It was 12 years ago, but people are still affected. I think that's why I'm so shaken up by this case. It brings back a lot of memories. 

[luv2laugh]

36 minutes ago, FilleMondaine said:

As @FecundFundieFundus and @Seren Ann say, our teachers are overwhelmed. (I was an educator before I became a social worker) There was care and love, but it is almost impossible to adequately care when working with impossible requests. Under Trump and Education Secretary DeVos, the care and education of special needs children have been insulted even more! Both funds and guidance have been removed. Not cool, Don and Betsy! 

It has recently become acceptable to openly disparage teachers and to make education a partisan issue. (It used to be social death to be against educators, but not anymore....sigh)

Things to think about as school levies are proposed, and as we move into the 2018 elections. We have to support our schools, and we have to support the congress-critters who will help. 

 

To share my experience, I went to a top ranked public school and many teachers there (not all) were extremely lazy, rushed through lessons, loved group projects so they didn’t have to teach, movies, and did not care who was left behind. Then, they would give intense exams and grade strictly. I struggled and we needed to spend a lot of money on tutoring. I think something should be done to make sure teachers are actually teaching. I noticed this with the at risk kids I tutored also. This is why I love the common core which has greatly helped with this.

However I do love educators do have immense respect for the tough job they do. That was only my experience and probably not the norm in most cases. I will proudly send my future kids to public school and support the teachers. Homeschooling definitely needs to be regulated and I’m angry it’s not being done.

[JillyO]

51 minutes ago, Seren Ann said:

For me, a country like Germany is taking away families' freedom. It is frightening for me when the state interferes and regulates every single thing so rigidly.

I don't know where you're from, but you're clearly not from Germany since you say you were homeschooled. Well, I AM from Germany and I can assure you that the state does not "[interfere] and [regulate] every single thing so rigidly." In fact, people tend to be much freer in my experience (I now live in the US) because of government "invervention." Because people don't have to fear for their livelihoods if they get sick, or have a child with disabilities, or any other fact of life that can pretty much ruin a person here in America.

Frankly, I see the fact that parents of children with special needs in the US often see homeschooling as their only choice as proof of a lack of freedom. If the government of one of the richest countries in the world properly provided for its citizens, parents would have access to proper services for their children and wouldn't feel forced to homeschool their children. That is the exact opposite of freedom, to me. Now I'm not at all saying that some parents wouldn't still choose to homeschool, and that's fine. But it appears that for many parents of special needs children, there simply is no choice.

I impore you to at least talk to actual Germans (or people from other countries with stronger governments) before coming up with such a strong conclusion. I have yet to hear ANY German say that they feel like the state interferes too much with their business. A single one. While I'm sure they exist, they must be in a VERY small minority for me to never have encountered one, as I lived 26 years of my life there.