Turpins - 13 shackled kids

[Sideways]

11 minutes ago, VVV said:

The father took the child back into their apartment and I begged the police officer to notify CPS. What the officer told me was: he believed me. He did not believe the father. But because he didn't see the child left unsupervised with his own eyes, it was hearsay and even though he completely believed me and considered the father to be obvious scum, there was no basis to call CPS and they wouldn't do anything even if they were called.

I'm not saying that the extended family and/or the neighbors shouldn't have tried to report them. The neighbors, I think, had reason to be concerned enough to call. But I'm also not convinced anything would have happened differently because, as has been pointed out already, it would have been hearsay.

You would have had a right to call CPS and report the father on your own.  Now in this day and age we have phone cameras to document events, and that would have told the story all on its own.

2 hours ago, chaotic life said:

I get angry, really I do. I cannot stop being haunted by this story. The number of fundie families I know that look exactly that that family’s pictures is frightening. But the aunt did not do this. I think it’s misplaced anger to blame her, madd easy to do because she stepped out into the public spotlight. But his peeping Tom act twenty years ago doesn’t warrant calling authorities long afterward. And this woman endured abuse herself. At the time he was creeping on her, she likely had little to not concept of how abnormal it was.

It’s not nearly as uncommon as you might think that fundie families cut off family as they go fundie. My childhood best friend has done that to me and most of her family because no one but her IBC is the right kind of Christian.

A neighbor that knew there were supposed to be 13 kids there and could not account for them DID warrant a call. That was something concrete and first person that could have triggered a welfare check.

The "aunt did not do this", but as her views are nearly as screwed up as her sister's, I'm going to hazard that she wouldn't have intervened even if she'd seen the family in the flesh.  

Listen to the podcast link I posted.  She went on a three month fast to ask God to help her solve her marital problems.  This was just after giving birth to her 7th or 8th kid.   What mother does that with a newborn?   What person does that period??  

[Firebird]

@feministxtian

I can verify those amounts as well

We get a 650 dollar bill every few months for pump supplies.

Thankfully insulin is covered well, but when we bought it out of pocket is was over 200 dollars a vial.

My husband's pump is thousands of dollars. Hopefully it stays working.

I am still paying off a 500 dollar bill from the ED when I was having a massive dizzy spell and couldn't stand and felt like I couldn't breathe. That doesn't include my 125 dollar copay.

Currently I'm not getting some blood work done that would cost me 2,500 dollars to see if I have a clotting disorder that might have been why I miscarried. I'll address that after we put a new roof on the house.

[acheronbeach]

37 minutes ago, VVV said:

Regarding hearsay and who could have called CPS on what basis... (snip)

I'm not saying that the extended family and/or the neighbors shouldn't have tried to report them. The neighbors, I think, had reason to be concerned enough to call. But I'm also not convinced anything would have happened differently because, as has been pointed out already, it would have been hearsay.

This doesn't make sense. By that reasoning, if you'd seen a murder committed, the person couldn't be charged.  That's either a lazy or crappy cop.  In my jurisdiction, he had a duty to act on your report.

For everyone reading here... you have every right to call children's aid directly.  They generally have more power to investigate families than police do and their mandate is focused on child welfare.

Edit: Just to add... legally, that's not hearsay.  It's a witness statement.  

[Kailash]

2 hours ago, chaotic life said:

What's next for 13 siblings allegedly starved, held captive in parents' home - ABC Newshttps://apple.news/ANJwgOZCjRvWdzIeSG_Ab1Q

CPS is on the record stating that the adult children will be assessed for their capacity to be independent adults and if they are not ready they will be placed under CPS services and not adult protective services.

Iirc, something similar was done with Jaycee Dugard when she was found years ago, although she had family there and overjoyed to catch her back and support her.

I am glad to read that the adult children will be placed with CPS if necessary. I thought earlier that could possibly be a solution. 

These poor children and (kid)adults. It just isn't fair what they've had to endure and nothing can fully make up for it. 

[MzMcLean]

9 hours ago, nausicaa said:

I completely agree, and I seriously hope they never see daylight again. However, is there any other American case of even horrific child abuse that entailed such a high bond amount? (I'm genuinely asking, I don't know enough about legal precedent here.) Million dollar bonds always seemed reserved for murder. 

There are some situations that are "worse" than murder.  This appears to be one of them from all angles.

[VVV]

1 hour ago, Sideways said:

You would have had a right to call CPS and report the father on your own.  Now in this day and age we have phone cameras to document events, and that would have told the story all on its own.

 

This was in the days before cell phone cameras. I had no documentation. It was my word's against the father's, and he stood there and lied to the officer

[Gnomewizard]

We were financially stable with good insurance. We live less than 5 miles to work and grocery stores and we have been slowly moving towards being car free by switching to primarily commuting via bike, foot, and bus with the goal of not replacing our old high mileage cars. Then the employer sponsored insurance changed for the worst. Then cancer. We are now debating selling our house and moving in with my parents. I am worried about the long comute on poorly maintained roads over a bridge declared dangerous. My parents are looking at draining their retirement to help. 

I would happily live in a Nanny state, beats the heck out of dealing with the additional stress of keeping a roof over my kids heads.

[Flossie]

Our local news this evening warned that a number of Go Fund Me's have been set up for these kids, but the authorities have asked people not to donate because they're not legit.  So yeah, some people out there are trying to profit from this tragedy.

[nvmbr02]

10 hours ago, nausicaa said:

Does anyone have any stats concerning child abuse reports/occurrences in more collectivist countries (South Korea was used as an example earlier) versus more individualistic countries like the United States? I'm wondering if we're painting with a broad, and perhaps overly optimistic brush here, and I'd be interested in seeing some data. 

I have zero statistics but I have heard of similar instances in other countries. For example in Japan about a month ago a 27 year old woman was found locked in a shed, she had been there since she was a teen. IIRC, she was acting out as a teen and her parents decided she had some sort of mental illness but didn't want to take her to be seen by a medical professional so they locked her in a shed instead. There was also the Fritzl case from Austria. That was several years ago, 2008 or 2009 I think. The daughter was locked away for 20+ years and had 7 children fathered by her father.  It does seem like it happens more in the US though. 

[Jana814]

1 hour ago, nvmbr02 said:

There was also the Fritzl case from Austria. That was several years ago, 2008 or 2009 I think. The daughter was locked away for 20+ years and had 7 children fathered by her father.  It does seem like it happens more in the US though. 

That story is horrific. The mother had no idea her daughter was locked in the basement!!  

[JesusPony]

They were fed once a day and allowed to shower twice a year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-torture-house-13-siblings-allowed-eat-once-day-shower-n838671?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

I CANNOT.

 

ETA: My frickin cat gets far better care.

[Queen Of Hearts]

One thing that has me shocked is that the 17 year old hero even knew to call 911. It sounds like these victims were very sheltered and controlled but at some point along the way they must have been exposed to enough normal things for her to know that a deactivated cell phone could call 911 and that 911 would bring help. 

Another amazing thing is that this person was able to crawl out a window without any of the other siblings alerting their parents. You would think the Stockholm Syndrome would be strong and at least some would have spoke up. That tells me things went from already bad to very, very bad recently in that house.

[bird]

46 minutes ago, JesusPony said:

They were fed once a day and allowed to shower twice a year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-torture-house-13-siblings-allowed-eat-once-day-shower-n838671?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

I CANNOT.

 

ETA: My frickin cat gets far better care.

I never thought I'd see the day when I would need to pop to the Anderson thread to feel better about things. So so sad. 

[BlackSheep]

Hard to imagine showering only twice a year. Those poor children/kidults. The smell of unwashed humans in that house must have been overwhelming. Plus the risk of infections from not keeping clean. And the dehumanizing effect.

And rooms "filled with urine" according to the article. The health risks that these children faced is staggering.

Kudos to the social workers, foster families, and others who work around the world, every day, to bring safety, health, love, and justice to children like these. You're doing God's work.

[HarleyQuinn]

Showering Twice a year? Jesus. 

[BlackSheep]

20 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

One thing that has me shocked is that the 17 year old hero even knew to call 911. It sounds like these victims were very sheltered and controlled but at some point along the way they must have been exposed to enough normal things for her to know that a deactivated cell phone could call 911 and that 911 would bring help. 

Another amazing thing is that this person was able to crawl out a window without any of the other siblings alerting their parents. You would think the Stockholm Syndrome would be strong and at least some would have spoke up. That tells me things went from already bad to very, very bad recently in that house.

It's possible that she didn't know that it was deactivated, so that line of thinking might not have come into play at all. Either way, thankfully she knew that 911 is the way to get help.

Someone mentioned upthread that more than one sibling may have been involved, with one or more of them covering for the one who escaped - creating a distraction, perhaps.

[libgirl2]

25 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Showering Twice a year? Jesus. 

I know. I can't even fathom this. 

[nomoxian]

15 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'm sorry but I would think "dad watches me shower and isolates kids" would be worth at least an anonymous tip to CPS. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯ 

Same here, but I don't think she had the same upbringing as most people.

Even if CPS got involved, they might have not done much. My family was involved with CPS, and even though an adult admitted to being physically abusive, they didn't do anything. If you have a "nice" home (that is literally what the worker said when he looked at the house) they are less likely to take action. Bonus points if you are light skinned... Their family had kids who could perform all happy like and they had money for a trip to Disneyland, so they could probably clean up well enough if CPS came knocking.

[FunFunFundie]

On my deactivated phone, the only thing that is possible is to call 911. It’s at least theoretically possible that she thought the cell phone would be of use, got it charged, and that option was there for her. Thank God. Not the one that told Louise to have 13 kids, though, that God sucks.

[iweartanktops]

1 hour ago, JesusPony said:

They were fed once a day and allowed to shower twice a year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-torture-house-13-siblings-allowed-eat-once-day-shower-n838671?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

I CANNOT.

 

ETA: My frickin cat gets far better care.

From the article:

Psychologists will be brought in to evaluate them when their physical conditions improve, the official added.

So sad. That's exactly what they do for anorexia, among other things. When you're severely malnourished, physiological help is basically useless. 

This case is beyond heartbreaking. I second the poster above, who is thanking social workers, medical providers, le, etc. I used to work in an emergency shelter for kids who were removed from the home by le or dhs. It was important work, but quite stressful, and the secondary trauma was unbearable sometimes. My heart goes out to those who are working with these survivors. 

 

[Anonymousguest]

1 hour ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

One thing that has me shocked is that the 17 year old hero even knew to call 911. It sounds like these victims were very sheltered and controlled but at some point along the way they must have been exposed to enough normal things for her to know that a deactivated cell phone could call 911 and that 911 would bring help. 

Another amazing thing is that this person was able to crawl out a window without any of the other siblings alerting their parents. You would think the Stockholm Syndrome would be strong and at least some would have spoke up. That tells me things went from already bad to very, very bad recently in that house.

I said something to this effect early on. I was hoping that it meant they had lead at least a some what normal life to some point. But obviously we know it's not true. She knew to call 911, she knew how to take pictures, she knew the police would help her and she trusted them. And she knew that how she was being treated wasn't normal or ok. And she had the bravery to escape. 

After reading the most recent article about their conditions I just want to know WHY??? Any I know there is no answer. My heart just breaks. 

[nausicaa]

2 hours ago, JesusPony said:

ETA: My frickin cat gets far better care.

Read this at first as "my fricking car gets far better care." And it's still true. I treat my piece of shit car better than those kids were treated. 

 

[nausicaa]

12 minutes ago, Anonymousguest said:

I said something to this effect early on. I was hoping that it meant they had lead at least a some what normal life to some point.

Total idle speculation: I think those kids were abused for years, but things became significantly worse in the past year or so when one or both parents' mental states deteriorated. It explains how the 17 year old would know how to use a phone and what 911 is. I have trouble believing all of those kids would have survived one meal a day, two showers a year, shackled to a bed all day for decades.  Or maybe that's what I just need to believe because it's too terrible otherwise.

 

[December]

These poor kids and young adults. It's just horrifying beyond words. Thank goodness this girl was so brave and they are now rescued, even if it can never make up for what they all endured. 

2 hours ago, BlackSheep said:

Kudos to the social workers, foster families, and others who work around the world, every day, to bring safety, health, love, and justice to children like these. 

This. We're so lucky to have individuals and services that can help people from even really unthinkable situations like this one.

[artdecades]

3 hours ago, JesusPony said:

They were fed once a day and allowed to shower twice a year: https://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/california-torture-house-13-siblings-allowed-eat-once-day-shower-n838671?cid=sm_npd_nn_tw_ma

 

I CANNOT.

 

ETA: My frickin cat gets far better care.

forgive me if this was talked about earlier since i haven't read the whole thread, but she is 49 and he is 57. She married him when she was 16. He would have been 24. How was that not a red flag to the family to begin with?