Lori Alexander 35: Closing Windows Because of the Fires

[jerkit]

I think this follows naturally from the fundie belief (that Lori is super deep into) that men need sex and women "give it" to them. Women are completely asexual - they have no sexual desire and their job is simply to shut  up and put out in order to quell men's uncontrollable lust. Women should control men's sexuality while having no sexuality of their own. Women should control men's lust by dressing modestly.

I've said this before, but I think more of men. I think men are better than being uncontrollable beasts. My father, my brother, and my husband somehow manage to treat women with respect no matter what they're wearing. Sorry Ken doesn't, Lori! That doesn't make him a man, that makes him a shitty person!

[Liza]

Since we are on the subject of sexual assault, I learned that it is about power and control ... not about sex.   As to the fundie belief that women are asexual and men are overly-sexual, I had not heard this one before.  I DO believe they live by this double standard and play these roles.

If you marry a man (and vice versa) without having premarital sex, how can  you possibly know if you are a good match?   I know they say it's a sin, but not knowing if you are compatible,, could lead to a greater "sin", divorce.   Read about a man who after 22 years of fundie marriage, could not get his wife to have sex with him.  She did so, only begrudgingly for the entire marriage.  There are only two things that I see to explain this behaviour:

1)  She was not physically attracted to him.

2)  She/he had sexual hang-ups

3)  There  was a huge difference in sex drive, thus making them incompatible.

[TeddyBonkers]

Pulling from the KASOS (Ken Alexander School of Statistics), 98% of parents teach their children not to lay hands on other people.* What the hell is this "not everyone is raised like you were" shit? Men ARE taught to keep their hands to themselves as boys. Some bad men don't (regardless of what a woman is wearing). It's completely okay to call them out on it.

*sometimes this backfires. In standing up for her friend yesterday at school, Younger Bonkers took a little boy's milk and poured it over his lunch. At least it wasn't on his head.

[EowynW]

@Liza I have friends who slept together and were very compatible before marriage who still have miserable marriages, both in bed and out of it. So I don't think it's a reliable indicator. Also, sex drives & interest change during seasons of marriage and it's hard to reliably know these things ahead of time IMO. 

 

Many women raised fundie and in fundie marriages have sexual hang ups due to the shitty teachings taught by fundies about sex. And many fundie men aren't taught any better so they both come into marriage disadvantaged in bed. It's really very sad. 

[Imrlgoddess]

The one line that stood out to me in today's particular drivel is this;

"Being patted on the butt isn’t something that would cause long-term pain as the other two would."  

How do you know that Lori?  How many times has it happened to you that you inadvertently blocked out as a coping mechanism?  How many times did you brush a fellows hand off of you knowing that it embarrassed/infuriated you but you weren't going to make peep to anyone because it would just raise questions as to why you "let him"?  The behavior does leave lasting impressions.  We internalize it and compartmentalize and tell ourselves "it could have been worse, move on."  I can personally guarantee you, Lori, I remember every boy and man (starting around middle school) that ever copped a feel.  

I live in a hot climate and currently spend most of my days on college campus full of young men and women.  Our town is pretty diverse as far as belief systems and people go.    I'm really needing to know where she's seeing all this super immodest dress.  Shit, I live 3 hours from New Orleans!  The red light district of the south and I'm not seeing this massive influx of women who dress to "attract attention."  Now, I'm not saying it doesn't happen, just that it isn't this super common, every day occurrence that she makes it out to be.  

Ever since I started reading here and saw the heavy emphasis on modest dress I've been paying more attention when I go out into public.  Unless there's a specific kind of event that lends itself to a "little black dress", I rarely see anyone walking around in what would be "immodest dress."  Most of what I see are regular clothes:  pants/skirts/leggings, top that go from the shoulders to the hip or longer with a regular scoop neckline that falls somewhere between the top of the cleavage and the collarbone.  

I certainly don't see a mass of women (any age) who are "flaunting" themselves a'la Maurie Povich.  I call bullshit on her entire diatribe.  If a man is going to touch a woman he's going to do it whether she's wearing a gunny sack or a mini skirt.  Period.  

[Koala]

Chad says:

Quote

What about her immodest dress?

Well Chad, you still have to control yourself.  That's right, you have to keep your hands to yourself even, if you labor under the delusion that any woman wearing a dress that you've deemed "immodest"= invitation to touch.  It doesn't.  That's why we call it sexual assault.

Lori's sarcastic response:

Quote

 You’re not allowed to say anything about that.

Nope...you're totally allowed, which is why you and Chad are both saying something.  

What you don't like, is the fact that YOU can't disallow other people from calling you the victim blamer you are.  

Freedom to say what you want (in your case, to shame the victim), doesn't mean no one can disagree with you, or tell you exactly what they think of what you're doing.

What I'd like to know, is what kind of message this sends to Lori's daughters and daugters-in-law.  They have both worked (Lori and a reader mused last week that if women stayed home where they belong, none of this would be happening in the first place).  At least one of her daughters and one of her dils wear things that Lori regularly posts about (labeling them as immodest).  Does she really believe that it's okay for men like Chad to harass them and then whine, "But what about her immodest dress?!?!"  Really?  Because it's totally NOT OKAY!

My god, what is wrong with these people?

[delphinium65]

Even if-IF-a woman is dressing to attract attention that does not give anyone, male or female, the right to put his/her hands on her body. Period.  I concede that it may be difficult to ignore a very deep neckline or short skirt, but so what?  Men are capable of noticing, and appreciating, an attractive female body without laying a hand on her.  There are more options than being absolutely blind to an attractive women, and a man having so little control over himself that he simply MUST assault her.  I think most men are at least a little better than that!  

[Koala]

8 minutes ago, Imrlgoddess said:

Ever since I started reading here and saw the heavy emphasis on modest dress I've been paying more attention when I go out into public.

Here's the thing- it's totally subjective.  That's why Lori wears dresses and shorts WAY above the knee, and navy tops cut so low that I'm not even sure why she bothered. 

She says that Ken says it's okay, but I know many Christian men who would consider Lori very immodest.  

Who gets to decide who's immodest enough to deserve being harassed?  The obvious answer here, is The Godly Mentor herself!  Makes me sick.  She judges other women, and then when she gets called out (with pictures) of her own immodesty, she writes some snotty post about how it's A-Okay because she's not "ultra-conservative". 

*Her book is back down to 2.5 stars, so the ladies in the chat room should be prepared for another shameless beg for 5 star reviews.*

[Imrlgoddess]

4 minutes ago, Koala said:

Here's the thing- it's totally subjective.  That's why Lori wears dresses and shorts WAY above the knee, and navy tops cut so low that I'm not even sure why she bothered. 

She says that Ken says it's okay, but I know many Christian men who would consider Lori very immodest.  

Who gets to decide who's immodest enough to deserve being harassed?  The obvious answer here, is The Godly Mentor herself!  Makes me sick.  She judges other women, and then when she gets called out (with pictures) of her own immodesty, she writes some snotty post about how it's A-Okay because she's not "ultra-conservative". 

I totally agree with you.  Seeing her photos and her explain away what she wears...it just confuses the crap out of me.  I began to assume that she is taking the extreme cases to make her point.  Pouncing on the ones who go out in athletic casual because leggings are de debil or trashing celebrities because they will wear the designer dresses that often have a shock factor built in....or thinking the actor in real life dresses the way their characters do.  All her rules apply to everyone but her--do as I say, not as I do.

I heard so many women tell me similar stuff growing up, the "boys will be boys" crap.  Oddly enough my mom was weird about that subject.  She had a measure of sympathy because she did have a pervy uncle that she threatened to light on fire once when he grabbed her.  But even she had a tendency over the years to make the "why were alone with him?" or "what were you wearing" accusations.  The behavior was normalized in my community, it ended up making some of us a bit militant...you want sexism?  Hold my beer.  More than once issues that grown ups swept under the table were later handled by groups of girls who were tired.

[Koala]

Lori will probably delete this one (even though she responded):

Quote

 The comments here are disturbing... male or female, no matter how you dress, should not excuse anybody from putting their hands on you if it isn’t wanted... I was raised to not touch anything, no matter how shiny or pretty it is, unless it’s mine...

 

[WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?]

It's such a minor point, but when Lori said:

Quote

Many people would not even understand what she meant by this!

all I could think was, "Lori, honey, just because you can't understand the big words and big ideas/concepts, it doesn't mean that other people are as simple-minded as you are." I guess I'm feeling a little BEC today. 

[SuperNova]

Even if Lori believes the garbage she's spouting, why can't little girls and boys also be taught about bodily autonomy?

For some reason I received a lot of attention as a child. Perfect strangers, aunt and uncles, people at church, or the grocery store, always wanted to touch me. I was a very shy little girl and was embarrassed by the attention. My father would tell me, go on, give him/her a hug. It's ok. There was no arguing with him because his word was law. If I had refused, my father would have been angry with me. So I did. My father normalized unwanted attention. Later on, I was very confused as a teenager and it was difficult to find a voice. I had trouble indentifying wanted and unwanted touch. It's scary just typing that because I'm sure it's something that is still being played out in patriarchal homes like mine was growing up. 

Taking away a child's right to choose who touches their body, even with something as innocuous as a hug, is a great way to set them up for unwanted attention or sexual abuse. The wink that goes along with the statement, boys will be boys, further normalizes the idea that our bodies are not our own and attention should make women feel good about themselves. I can agree that a hug (or a pat on the butt) isn't the same as rape but it's inviting those with no self control to go further. Sometimes those exchanges are about testing the waters. Why oh why is Lori so stupid? 

[Imrlgoddess]

@WhatWouldJohnCrichtonDo?

 

 

Spoiler

 

[fundamentallyfearless]

How dare Lori minimize sexual assault... How dare she be such a vile bitch... Grrr...

[saintmom]

On 12/15/2017 at 12:26 PM, EowynW said:

Pump him dry... WTF

I.....I threw up in my mouth at the thought of her doing this to him.....

[AlwaysDiscerning]

8 · 4 hrs

Manage

Ken Alexander Are you saying I am that bad? Oh, used to be that bad :). Thanks for loving me so fully!

8 · 4 hrs

Manage

The Transformed Wife ❤️

2 · 4 hrs

Manage

Chris Tackett Ken, you hit the jackpot with this beautiful inspirational woman :)

1 · 2 hrs

Manage

The Transformed Wife Chris Tackett that is very kind of you to say.

[Frog99]

We know she’s paying to get her views out to a larger audience (someone here said a post appeared as a sponsored post), and there is speculation that she is paying for followers (I don’t know how that works). And her posts have been especially rigid, contentious, and controversial. 

She doesn’t have a Christmas tree because the gift she wants can’t be found under a tree. She wants to go viral again- bigger than before (and of course get those passive aggressive digs in at her kids). And she’s probably seething inside over the fact that her efforts have gotten her nowhere. 

I will admit that I googled Ken’s business today, curious to see if I could find anything regarding a sexual harassment claim in light of some of her posts but I couldn’t find anything.  

[Frog99]

I am a feminist. I know that I bring a different perspective and different set of skills. I don’t want to be like a man. I don’t want to rule over men-I don’t want to rule over anyone really- I just want people to show respect and kindness. I pray every day for God to show me His path and will for me- because I know that it is more than Paul’s ordained role for women (the role she has taken out of context). 

 

And can someone help me understand what on earth Savannah is talking about here? 

[Sarah92]

I just can't with these recent posts on sexual assault. I refuse to open this one as well since I have a pretty decent idea of what she's going to say. It's like they just can't let guys take full responsibility for themselves. Women have to maintain perfect control but guys? Nah we can't expect that we might hurt their egos! They're expected to sin sometimes, they can't help it because boobs.

And the victim blaming. Does she not know that a large portion of sexual assaults happen to minors? Are you going to blame their immodest nightgowns? 

Also to the woman who said she doesn't understand gender equality and doesn't think middle schoolers understand it as well, It's. Not. That. Hard. 

And I'm pretty sure she takes Is 3:12 out of context. The only verse she uses out of the OT. 

[mango_fandango]

Women should be allowed to wear what the hell they want, unless it’s an occasion where you’re expected to adhere to some kind of dress code (eg school, work, formal occasions). 

I can’t even with the woman who said “yes we should teach boys not to stare but girls shouldn’t dress immodestly”. Laying the blame squarely at the feet of girls again. Boys will be boys, “we can teach guys but if a girl is immodest, well, boys can’t help it”. Fuck that shit. 

[Sarah92]

10 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

Women should be allowed to wear what the hell they want, unless it’s an occasion where you’re expected to adhere to some kind of dress code (eg school, work, formal occasions). 

I can’t even with the woman who said “yes we should teach boys not to stare but girls shouldn’t dress immodestly”. Laying the blame squarely at the feet of girls again. Boys will be boys, “we can teach guys but if a girl is immodest, well, boys can’t help it”. Fuck that shit. 

That reminds me of what a lot of fundamentalist/ complementarians about women being equal to men but men still need to lead in all things.... So what you're really telling me is that you don't believe men and women are equal? Because if you did you'd consider the talents and abilities of the person to lead rather than their gender. 

So teach boys but not really

[EowynW]

My husband married me because I was the "wife of his dreams in every way possible." No transforming here. 

[Loveday]

"It is a blessing to have her transformed into the wife of my dreams."

Something about that sentence just nauseates me.  

[EowynW]

1 hour ago, Loveday said:

"It is a blessing to have her transformed into the wife of my dreams."

Something about that sentence just nauseates me.  

Agreed. I've also always been uncomfortable with the "I married you because you'd be a good mom" line. We aren't selecting broodmares for the breeding program here!  It's probably just me being too sensitive due to my background as a daughter in a fundamentalist, misogynistic & patriarchtic home, but I always wanted to be loved and valued for more than my potential mothering skills. 

[delphinium65]

48 minutes ago, Loveday said:

"It is a blessing to have her transformed into the wife of my dreams."

Something about that sentence just nauseates me.  

Like she wasn't what he wanted to start with, but he still married her, then she had to change to suit him.    The more I read about people like Lori and Ken, the happier I am with my man, who doesn't think I need to be 'transformed' or any shit like that!