Maxwell 14: Editing Out Fun-Loving

[anachronistic]

Dear Sarah,

despite what your father has told you, you are NOT, and never have been, serving Jesus. You are serving your megalomaniac asswipe of a father who THINKS that he is Jesus. Serving Jesus means giving your time and money to help the poor, the environment, children in need, etc. Jesus lived in the world and he served the world. Your family is not the world. You need to leave it in order to truly understand Jesus. Because the version that you’ve been brainwashed into believing? That’s not Jesus. That’s stevehovah.

[BullyJBG]

I guess "young lady" is the lesser evil than "girl". But yeah I'm badly tempted to make a comment of, and at what age do you stop being a "young lady" if you don't marry? Or does that not happen until your parents die? But, well, we know how the editing comments can be.

[socalrules]

I thought Steve was against people having friends. I though your siblings are to be your best friends. Is this just when a minor but once you hit 18 you can have a non-sibling friend?

[Jana814]

10 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I thought Steve was against people having friends. I though your siblings are to be your best friends. Is this just when a minor but once you hit 18 you can have a non-sibling friend?

He does say this. But I also think he feels the only friends his off spring should have are Christian friends. 

[Captain Obvious]

2 hours ago, SPHASH said:

If the Leake girls lives are as mundane as the Maxwells do what do they have to discuss when they get together?  Tips on ceiling fan cleaning?  How to cut lettuce without a pizza cutter?  How to sneak meat into burrito filling without your headship knowing?  

Their lives aren't as mundane as the Maxwells though, since they have their own quite successful businesses (Garlands of Grace, Snugars, Shiloh Photography), which seems impossible for the Maxwell girls because developing the skills for them to do that would lead to the business becoming an idol or something. The Leake girls also go to a regular church. 

[mango_fandango]

I always forget the age range of FJers. I'm only early 20s so maybe I presume many people are of a similar age, then I see people posting about being in their 40s+ so I get a reality check!

And friends are probably OK if they're for fellowshipping purposes. The friends don't all have the same beliefs: the bottom photo shows a girl in a knee-length skirt. 

[Captain Obvious]

30 minutes ago, socalrules said:

I thought Steve was against people having friends. I though your siblings are to be your best friends. Is this just when a minor but once you hit 18 you can have a non-sibling friend?

We don't really know what his rule is for adult children having friends because he hasn't gone into that much detail about it. Presumably they are OK to some extent, but there's no indication as to how a Maxwellian adult is supposed to find such friends since they don't socialise with anybody or go to a real church.

i find it interesting that a lot the people who Sarah has described as friends are people she seems to have known from at least 15 years ago, so likely they were friends in childhood - which kind of contradicts Steve's philosophy. Seems likely that Steve was friends with the parents and so the friendship between the children were sanctioned in that way.  Not sure if that is in the books though.

Out of all of this, I would love to know how the Maxwells actually met the Bontragers. They're not in the "old friends from KC" category, and I'm not sure if it would be through mutual conference/event attending, since they essentially have rival products. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

2 minutes ago, mango_fandango said:

I always forget the age range of FJers. I'm only early 20s so maybe I presume many people are of a similar age, then I see people posting about being in their 40s+ so I get a reality check!

And friends are probably OK if they're for fellowshipping purposes. The friends don't all have the same beliefs: the bottom photo shows a girl in a knee-length skirt. 

The other Maxwell sisters are there for accountability. They'll make sure none of the other sisters goes astray and starts thinking knee length skirts are OK.

[BullyJBG]

28 minutes ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

The other Maxwell sisters are there for accountability. They'll make sure none of the other sisters goes astray and starts thinking knee length skirts are OK.

Interesting. And yet, Sarah was allowed to travel alone to visit friends. I guess when you're 30+ that was re-evaluated? I thought someone asked a question  about that, and no daughter was allowed to go ANYWHERE completely alone? Well, maybe there was a circumstance that made that impossible once and Steve finally had to surrender. A little. Poor Steve.

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, mango_fandango said:

I always forget the age range of FJers. I'm only early 20s so maybe I presume many people are of a similar age, then I see people posting about being in their 40s+ so I get a reality check!

Oh, please never presume or assume anything on FJ!  I used to think I was one of the oldest FJers but I think about 20 people are even older than me.  I think we range from 18 to 70+.  And we are from many nations and some of us are POC.  Some of us are people with disabilities too. 

Never assume otherwise.  FJ is pretty diverse.  Take joy in that.

I've seen much wisdom from people who later disclose that they are under 20, or in their 20s, 30's and 40's.  It is one of the joys of FJ that we don't know ages when we read posts.

I have also seen foolishness from some people whatever their claimed age.  Age does not necessarily mean wisdom.  It can mean experience.

I do think that most FJers are sensitive to ageism though.  At least, I hope so.

[socalrules]

1 hour ago, BullyJBG said:

Interesting. And yet, Sarah was allowed to travel alone to visit friends. I guess when you're 30+ that was re-evaluated? I thought someone asked a question  about that, and no daughter was allowed to go ANYWHERE completely alone? Well, maybe there was a circumstance that made that impossible once and Steve finally had to surrender. A little. Poor Steve.

Maybe Mary and Anna don’t have any friends other than Sarah’s friends. It’s possible Sarah and the family have known these people so long they were able to cultivate a real relationship. Anna and Mary may have never had the opportunity to find good friend who follows the right type Maxwell Christianity. 

[Palimpsest]

2 hours ago, socalrules said:

I thought Steve was against people having friends. I though your siblings are to be your best friends. Is this just when a minor but once you hit 18 you can have a non-sibling friend?

It is not that contradictory in Steve's world.  If you are a true Steve-worshiper your "best friends" are your siblings.  Until they become "extended family."

People who buy your products and attend your conferences are "friends."  You may not know them very well at all.

Everyone else is unsaved and unworthy to be called a friend.

[Hane]

While we’re on the subject, what’s with all the 20- and 30- somethings who wait on me at drive-thrus suddenly calling me “Hon” or “Sweetie” all the damn time? I want SO much to say, “‘Ma’am’ will do nicely—I’m old enough to be your grandmother.”  At the Apple Store a couple of weeks ago, after the pushy 18-year-old waiting on me asked my name, I said, “Miss Lastname.” When she turned me over to the tech setting up my new computer, she introduced me as “Firstname.” I told them, “No. I’m Miss Lastname. You’re both young enough to be my grandkids and at this age I want the respect.” The tech—a young AA man—was obviously cool with it, but his colleague looked miffed. 

I am generally easygoing, but insisting on being addressed according to my own preferences is a hill I *am* willing to die on.

[Palimpsest]

1 minute ago, Hane said:

I am generally easygoing, but insisting on being addressed according to my own preferences is a hill I *am* willing to die on.

I'm usually very easy going on this too.  However, when a very young (to me) doctor addressed me by my first name recently, I responded to him by calling him "Kenneth." It was on his name tag. 

He was not pleased.  At all!  I'm fine with being on first name terms - if it is mutual and not a power play.  

The best thing people can do is to ASK how someone wants to be addressed and go with the flow.  

[anjulibai]

44 minutes ago, Hane said:

While we’re on the subject, what’s with all the 20- and 30- somethings who wait on me at drive-thrus suddenly calling me “Hon” or “Sweetie” all the damn time? I want SO much to say, “‘Ma’am’ will do nicely—I’m old enough to be your grandmother.”  At the Apple Store a couple of weeks ago, after the pushy 18-year-old waiting on me asked my name, I said, “Miss Lastname.” When she turned me over to the tech setting up my new computer, she introduced me as “Firstname.” I told them, “No. I’m Miss Lastname. You’re both young enough to be my grandkids and at this age I want the respect.” The tech—a young AA man—was obviously cool with it, but his colleague looked miffed. 

I am generally easygoing, but insisting on being addressed according to my own preferences is a hill I *am* willing to die on.

Just age differences. Most people in their 20s and 30s don't say sweetie and hon other than to those much younger. I call my students sweetie all the time. 

Some stores tell their employees to use first names, supposedly to promote a more informal atmosphere. I wouldn't get too mad at individual employees for it, because they can get in trouble for not following that policy. Write to the store to let them know you don't like the policy, though. 

[lilith]

3 hours ago, Captain Obvious said:

We don't really know what his rule is for adult children having friends because he hasn't gone into that much detail about it. Presumably they are OK to some extent, but there's no indication as to how a Maxwellian adult is supposed to find such friends since they don't socialise with anybody or go to a real church.

i find it interesting that a lot the people who Sarah has described as friends are people she seems to have known from at least 15 years ago, so likely they were friends in childhood - which kind of contradicts Steve's philosophy. Seems likely that Steve was friends with the parents and so the friendship between the children were sanctioned in that way.  Not sure if that is in the books though.

Out of all of this, I would love to know how the Maxwells actually met the Bontragers. They're not in the "old friends from KC" category, and I'm not sure if it would be through mutual conference/event attending, since they essentially have rival products. 

I’m pretty sure Steve used to allow “whole family” socialising. So he and Teri would fellowship with a godly couple, and the children of both families, ranging from newborn to 30s, would all hang out in a group for accountability.

As to where they met the Bontragers - I’m sure they have been aware of each other for a long time, they move in the same circles and have mutual friends, but Chelsy and John were spotted together at last years Bible Bee, and shortly after that the Maxwells were announced as speakers at the Bontrager conference (later cancelled due to weddings), so maybe they got closer then.

[MamaJunebug]

1 hour ago, Hane said:

While we’re on the subject, what’s with all the 20- and 30- somethings who wait on me at drive-thrus suddenly calling me “Hon” or “Sweetie” all the damn time? I want SO much to say, “‘Ma’am’ will do nicely—I’m old enough to be your grandmother.”  At the Apple Store a couple of weeks ago, after the pushy 18-year-old waiting on me asked my name, I said, “Miss Lastname.” When she turned me over to the tech setting up my new computer, she introduced me as “Firstname.” I told them, “No. I’m Miss Lastname. You’re both young enough to be my grandkids and at this age I want the respect.” The tech—a young AA man—was obviously cool with it, but his colleague looked miffed. 

I am generally easygoing, but insisting on being addressed according to my own preferences is a hill I *am* willing to die on.

Last week, when a woman young enough to be my granddaughter (if my child and I had both had kids at 17) called me “sweety” and then “dear” as she sold me something, I said, “call me ‘sweety’ or ‘dear’ one more time and you’ll have to buy me dinner.” She half-huffed a “sorry” and then pointedly called me “ma’am,” which I find perfect.  So much so that I called her “ma’am” as well. 

The woman has been teaching music to a class of older customers.  She’s a fine teacher, enjoys getting off the subject with us — but the terms of endearment? NO.

A while back, a physical therapist “honey’ed” and “dear’ed” me and I also stopped her.  I said, “you don’t know me well enough to mean it when you call me ‘dear.’  My name is June, or we can just call each other ‘ma’am’.”  She complied but I was grateful that she only worked with me one session.

I don’t know if I “look my age” or not, but it annoys me when casual acquaintances or people transacting business with me choose to use those words.  They’re phony and  inappropriate.   I sometimes used to ramp up the stupidity by calling them “sweetheart” or “moon pie” but no more—that subtlety was wasted on them.

Henceforth, I’m simply saying, “I’m not [term] — just call me ‘ma’am,’ please.”  Even if it means the end to a pleasant repartee — because their patronizing over-familiarity actually made it unpleasant.

Yeah, I’m this upset about something so small; so sue me.

 

[Justmurrayed]

15 minutes ago, MamaJunebug said:

I don’t know if I “look my age” or not, but it annoys me when casual acquaintances or people transacting business with me choose to use those words.  They’re phony and  inappropriate.   I sometimes used to ramp up the stupidity by calling them “sweetheart” or “moon pie” but no more—that subtlety was wasted on them.

Henceforth, I’m simply saying, “I’m not [term] — just call me ‘ma’am,’ please.”  Even if it means the end to a pleasant repartee — because their patronizing over-familiarity actually made it unpleasant.

Yeah, I’m this upset about something so small; so sue me.

 

I literally HATE this too. If you don't know my middle name and what my sister's first name is you don't have the right to call me any of those terms of endearment. It's gross and SO fake. I can't stand the fake niceness of it. 

[nastyhobbitses]

I'm 26 and I get called "ma'am" occasionally, which I like fine. But I loathe when people I barely know call me honey/sweetie/dear. I just find it condescending, and, in the case when a guy on LinkedIn tried to message me about a "professional opportunity" and called me several terms of endearment in what was supposed to be a professional email, very sexist and creepy. I find it a little weird when people call me Ms. Hobbitses, if only because I'm just so used to being called by my first name (though to be fair, a few years ago I had so much trouble calling older adults by their first names after years of being trained to call any non-related adult Mr./Mrs./Ms. until told otherwise). When I taught in China, I used a Chinese name and my students would call me Miss Chinesesurname, but I found that sort of awkward, so I ended up telling them that it was also OK to call me Chinesesurname Laoshi (which means teacher, and is how teachers are generally addressed), which I liked better and found much more dignified-sounding.

[terranova]

No one calls anyone ma'am here unless they're the Queen!

 

I just imagine Sarah, Anna and Mary and their friends roleplaying Jesus' life, writing fanfic about him...

[mango_fandango]

I’ve seen another board where someone complained about being called “dear” etc and pretty much everyone else said “they’re just being friendly” “it’s just a simple term of endearment” etc. And yeah no-one gets called “ma’am” here. When you address the Queen “ma’am” rhymes with ham and not harm.

I’m not a particular fan of “dear”, “sweetie” etc but I wouldn’t complain about it. Putting up with stuff and not complaining is the British way though

[Eternalbluepearl]

This is so interesting. I'm in my early 30's and while I don't personally call anyone honey, sweetie, etc. It has never bothered me to be called those names by strangers out in public. I figure public-facing jobs are stressful and they are trying to connect on a personal level with the customer in front of them. Everyone deserves to be addressed respectfully and just because honey doesn't bother me doesn't mean someone else's feelings about it are invalid. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

5 hours ago, lilith said:

I’m pretty sure Steve used to allow “whole family” socialising. So he and Teri would fellowship with a godly couple, and the children of both families, ranging from newborn to 30s, would all hang out in a group for accountability.

Yes, in the "Keeping Hearts" book, Steve described whole family socialization as the ideal. Even then, during those rare instances where the kids were allowed to go off by themselves without a parent, the younger Maxwell children had to have an older Maxwell child in the room while they were playing with the other family's kids. I think what we're seeing today is a variation on that theme.

[Dandruff]

I'm in my late 50's, essentially grey, and am occasionally referred to as "young lady" or "sweetheart" (always by men).  "Young lady" doesn't bother me anymore, since it always seems to be said in a friendly way.  "Sweetheart" is another story.  Clearly flippant or condescending, and pisses me off every time.  Those guys get a look which typically shuts them up fast.

[lilith]

5 hours ago, lilith said:

I’m pretty sure Steve used to allow “whole family” socialising. So he and Teri would fellowship with a godly couple, and the children of both families, ranging from newborn to 30s, would all hang out in a group for accountability.

As to where they met the Bontragers - I’m sure they have been aware of each other for a long time, they move in the same circles and have mutual friends, but Chelsy and John were spotted together at last years Bible Bee, and shortly after that the Maxwells were announced as speakers at the Bontrager conference (later cancelled due to weddings), so maybe they got closer then.

Quoting cause I can’t edit -

The Bontragers and Maxwells may well have met through the Duggars. Both families have known them since before 17 Kids & Counting and we know Maxwells have attended Duggar weddings and graduations. We also know that Chelsy at least attended Joy’s wedding and the whole family has probably attended other Duggar weddings (though I know they missed Jinger’s). That may well be where John and Chelsy caught each other’s eyes - those massive weddings have got to act as huge opportunities for meeting potential courtship partners, especially for more isolated families like the Maxwells. Maybe if Jana ever marries there will be an age appropriate groomsman for Sarah to meet.....