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Destiny

Stockdale Family Murders Part 2: The Sequel

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hoipolloi
2 hours ago, anniebgood said:

We can all thank the great Republican saint Ronald Reagan for the decimation of the California Mental Health System.

This is only one of many, many reasons I hope that Ronald Reagan is burning in an everlasting hell. He was a truly vile human being and Nancy was no better. 

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Lurky

One of the insidious things about the 'provocation defense' is there's [EDIT!!] SOMETIMES no evidence.  There were some high profile UK cases where men who murdered their wives claimed she's told him she was having an affair, or derided his masculinity/performance in bed, and he snapped, but there was no evidence for any of it, and there was evidence of domestic abuse.  In these cases the defense lawyer could smear the dead woman as much as they like, and she couldn't answer back.

And the idea that men can just "see red" and snap, and commit murder, but otherwise be a fine, upstanding member of the community with no underlying mental health issues, was really horrible, and dangerous.

Here's why the specific Provocation defense was abolished in UK law:

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2008/jul/29/justice.ukcrime

& more legalese on wiki:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Provocation_in_English_law

And provocation in terms of "gay panic" is incredibly problematic.  Men claiming that there was an aggressive come-on that made them snap and commit murder is so often completely unproveable (though they can generally prove a history of homophobia)

Edited by Lurky

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laPapessaGiovanna
11 hours ago, Ozlsn said:

When firearms aren't readily to hand their use in unplanned murders drops proportionally to whatever is readily at hand. So knives, blunt objects etc. I bet the number of murders involving an axe dropped as more people stopped needing to chop wood for heating and cooking too. I mean yeah, people quite often still have an axe but unless the argument is taking place in the shed it's more likely to be a knife or large vase to hand.

True. But countries where thanks to strict gun control firearms are the least used method tend to be countries where the homicide rates among the population are a lot lower. https://www.unodc.org/gsh/

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Aine
On 9/22/2017 at 0:07 AM, Ozlsn said:

If Jacob recovers but with an acquired brain injury does that affect the likelihood of him being tried or jailed? Obviously it wasn't something he had at the time of the murders, but would it factor into where he would be detained if found guilty, or even whether they would press charges or not?  

I really feel for his family, friends and their community.  No matter what happens from here it is going to be painful.

I haven't read all responses but if he is not competent to assist in his own defense, that's grounds for insanity even if he wasn't mentally unwell at the time of the murders. He'll likely be institutionalized for the rest of his life though in that case (I'm a psychologist). It seems likely he was mentally unstable at the time but that's difficult to prove if he never accessed services and was isolated.

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Astonished
Soulhuntress
On 9/23/2017 at 11:42 PM, anniebgood said:

Today we still don't have enough beds for the ones who need it. One needs only to drive down Skid Row in downtown LA where 2 blocks from highly gentrified lofts and boutique hotels, you find tent cities full of mentally ill people. Drug addicts, prostitutes and all levels of mental illness flood those dark streets. 

That is a messy horrible situation:  documented horrible abuse at said mental hospitals led to the Lanterman Petris Short Act of 1967 which gave involuntarialy committed people civil rights.  (Mom was a speech therapy student when this all started and she had horror stories about the state hospitals they toured).    One big problem with LPS  and similar laws is that the mentally ill can sign themselves out when stable (involuntary holds have to be reviewed at various legally set points).  And they go off their meds when released. And NIMBY made it difficult to  establish community based homes.  In other words, good intentions and a really bad outcome.  I have really mixed feelings about NAMI (had to try and get a family member committed and legally they could say no).

 

http://www.lacourt.org/division/mentalhealth/MH0017.aspx

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peggyolson

are there any updates on this family? I've googled the case and found just old stuff from 2017.

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JermajestyDuggar
On 8/30/2018 at 1:54 PM, peggyolson said:

are there any updates on this family? I've googled the case and found just old stuff from 2017.

https://www.news5cleveland.com/news/local-news/oh-stark/brother-in-bluegrass-band-turns-himself-in-to-police

Jacob has turned himself in for the murders. He’s been in care for his self inflicted gunshot wound for awhile. 

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Happy
ViolaSebastian

According to this, it looks as though the grand jury took the death penalty off the table. He still faces jail time, naturally.

https://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-6304423/Wife-swap-son-shot-dead-mom-brother-not-face-death-penalty.html

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Retroman
Posted (edited)

Upon discovering this forum, I created a membership just to post a few thoughts about the tragedy of the Stockdales, because I have personal insight into some of the debated "reasons" for Jacob's act.

I have read every post in both halves of the forum, and at the risk of being exiled immediately, I would like to point out that, aside from CrazyMamma (sp?), no one ever mentioned the possibility of "orientation" and how it may have contributed to Jacob's mindset.  I now know that this is a forbidden topic, but again, due to my life experience, I simply could not NOT bring it forward.

I know firsthand the kind of inner conflict that such a personal issue can stir up.  The horrendous pain.  The grinding depression.  As a college student/young adult, I was suicidal most of the time because of the trash I was taught by my fundie parents, my fundie college, and the fundie church.  The message I absorbed from them was that I was doomed to hell because I had feelings for men instead of women.  Unless I changed...which is a whole other can of spaghetti-o's.  So my thoughts were, "Why wait?" 

I turned my back on the church--and God--for fourteen years.  I don't know if that caused my suicide attempt at thirty-six, or delayed it until then.  All I know is that I was saved by God and no doctrine, dogma, list of rules, catechism, etc, had anything to do with it.  Touched by an angel?  I was touched by the Real Thing.  And I now believe that my preference is hardly the feature that interests Him most about me.  If He had such a problem with it...why let me live?

I cannot even imagine the hell it must be for children to grow up in an environment such as that of the Stockdales, the Duggars, etc, while struggling to hide their true "identity".  And if this contributed to the horror of June 15th, 2017, it is completely understandable, if not excusable.  Mrs. Stockdale might have found something.  Jacob might have blurted something out.  I'm not saying this was the case, but it COULD have been.  It happens all the time.  And if it wasn't, I believe, as with the majority here, that Jacob had untreated mental illness issues, chronic ones, which somehow exploded out of control that day.  His upbringing and family may or may not have contributed.  I'm thinking it did.  One thing I would bet on--even if the Stockdales were nowhere near being the "bad" parents that others have painted them as, neither were they close to being the "saintly" parents which many still insist they were.  Their autocratic regime was just that, no matter how kind its lighting.

Another personal note which led me to speak here...I am from Brewster, Ohio, which is right next to Beach City, where the Stockdale family lived.  I never knew them, but my parents attend church with some people who did.  At the time of the tragedy, much was, of course, made of Mrs. Stockdale's bizarre, controlling tactics with the boys.  But the consensus of those in the know was, "HE was worse".  Make of that what you can.

My heart has from the beginning gone out to the whole family, including those who are gone.  As a person who identifies with struggling souls, whatever the cause, my heart goes out to Jacob the most.

Thank you, and God's peace.

Edited by Retroman

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Joyleaf
Satisfied
scoutsadie

I'm just now learning about all of this while reading the first thread. That family "manual" (found using this link - http://web.archive.org/web/20170616183644/http://stockdalefamilyband.com/stockdale-family-manual/ ) reveals such an incredibly oppressive home. Hard to believe that anyone is more controlling and vigilant about preventing fun than Steve Maxwell, but Kathy Stockdale seemed to have taken the cake (before her third son murdered her).

Here's the most recent info I could find, from early October 2019:

https://www.indeonline.com/news/20191007/stockdale-case-recorded-jail-phone-calls-sought

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Meh
smittykins

If I didn’t know better, I might have thought Braggie Abbie based  her family’s motto on the Stockdales’.

#hardisnotthesamethingasbad

#itsahardlifebutitsagoodlife

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JermajestyDuggar
23 minutes ago, smittykins said:

If I didn’t know better, I might have thought Braggie Abbie based  her family’s motto on the Stockdales’.

#hardisnotthesamethingasbad

#itsahardlifebutitsagoodlife

I really really hope that her kids just up and leave her ass and nothing comes to violence. 

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Glasgowghirl
1 hour ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I really really hope that her kids just up and leave her ass and nothing comes to violence. 

Yes, while obviously I don't condone what Jacob did, he grew up in horrible situation and often fundie family's dont believe in seeking treatment for mental illness so I unfortunately believe similar things will happen to other families. 

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Retroman

This is terrible...I mean REALLY terrible.  But the late Mrs. Stockdale thoroughly reminds me, in behavior and appearance, of Margaret White in CARRIE.  That character was not nearly as over the top as generally thought.  The parallels are nothing short of eerie.  I wonder if she had a prayer closet for the kids?

carrie-sinsofwomen.jpeg

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neuroticcat

I am reading this thread now because someone linked to it on the Plathville thread recently. 

I saw a few earlier posts questioning abuse because of the brother’s death, but I don’t think that tragic element excludes abuse. sibling relationships can themselves be abusive and intensely dysfunctional, especially if family dynamics are unhealthy - especially with triangulation, golden children, kids set up to protect abusive parents, scapegoating, and projection. Obviously we have no idea if any of that happened, but in an abusive home all relationships have high dysfunction.

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