Duggars by the Dozen 30 - On a Mission from GOD!

[SassyPants]

@tatifish9- I totally agree on all points. Much like Alyssa W., I think Jin. Is going to live her life a bit differently. Religious, yes, but maybe without the rigidity that fundamentalism dictates. I also think that Jin., like Alyssa, did not fully embrace the fishbowl atmosphere that the TTH provided. I am happy that these women both have a good geographical distance from their birth families. Good for them!

[JMO]

My mom still calls my grandfather "My Daddy".  He died in his 90's and she's now in her 80's.  We are from the North East so I can say it's not just a Southern thing.   I think it's sweet to hear her say it.  I call my father "Dad" but that's just me.  

[TatiFish9]

 

15 hours ago, SassyPants said:

@tatifish9- I totally agree on all points. Much like Alyssa W., I think Jin. Is going to live her life a bit differently. Religious, yes, but maybe without the rigidity that fundamentalism dictates. I also think that Jin., like Alyssa, did not fully embrace the fishbowl atmosphere that the TTH provided. I am happy that these women both have a good geographical distance from their birth families. Good for them!

Sorry, Alyssa Webster - no longer Bates. Thanks for catching that. I agree. Getting away is the key for anyone who is isolated in a certain culture/region. It helps to see how the world exists outside our own. That is why many of these first gen fundie parents try their hardest to keep even the married couples close by. The easier to make sure those children get into heaven. lol That is what it all comes down to in the end. Fear.

[front hugs > duggs]

I'm from the northeast and I always thought the stereotype (not my personal belief) of an adult calling his/her father "daddy" was that they were a total spoiled brat. I, like a previous poster, started calling my mom "mommy" again in her final days as I was feeling maybe a nostalgia in a way? Trying to revert back to better times perhaps? I also think I'd still call my dad "daddy" if he wasn't a controlling, self-absorbed jackass most of the time. I was a daddy's girl growing up, but it's amazing what an impact an insecure girlfriend can have on a man and his familial relationships!

[MayMay1123]

I called my father "Daddy" until the day he died when I was 20 and he was 49 and I still refer to him as my daddy...Not southern, obviously...if anyone dared to "make fun" or laugh at me for it, I'd probably deck them. Seriously, why would anyone think/look down on someone for this? 

[Rachel333]

Eh, some people have different opinions. Someone having a personal distaste for one word doesn't necessarily mean that they're condemning everyone who says it. I do understand why people would be upset by being called creepy, though.

[slp]

My grandmother called her Dad "Papa" until he died.  She was in her 70s and he was 90 something.  Sweet part is, he was her stepfather, and she began calling him "Papa" as a young girl around 8.  It meant a lot to them both that he was still "Papa".

My kids, even the teens and adult one call me "Mama".  My dad is 'Dad' and "Daddy", interchangeably, and he still calls me "Sugar" just like he did when I was little.  Not creepy, just a cultural/family difference with others. 

[Beermeet]

6 hours ago, SassyPants said:

@tatifish9- I totally agree on all points. Much like Alyssa W., I think Jin. Is going to live her life a bit differently. Religious, yes, but maybe without the rigidity that fundamentalism dictates. I also think that Jin., like Alyssa, did not fully embrace the fishbowl atmosphere that the TTH provided. I am happy that these women both have a good geographical distance from their birth families. Good for them!

Distance is very good!  And, I like how they both banned their families from visiting stat.  Alyssa with first baby, Jinge after marriage.    Good on them.

[JordynDarby5]

7 hours ago, SayWhat said:

 

Michelle is NOT an excellent mother to any of her kids.

This yes. Michelle isn't an excellent mother. She's an excellent example of what not to do as a parent. You gave a very good long list of reasons why she is a horrible mother. A good mother doesn't ignore her son molesting her daughters. She gets him the help he clearly needs and her daughters' as well. She doesn't turn parenting over to her daughters completely. Making her four daughters completely responsible for two or three kids and make them do everything else. She doesn't make a daughter sleep in the same bed with a toddler who wets the bed. A good mother doesn't deny her children a real education. Ban books, TV, and all outside interests. She doesn't isolate them from rest of the world while brainwashing them and taking away all of their choices. She doesn't toss a very premature baby that had a lot of serious medical issues in the hands of a teenager in addition to 16 or 17 other kids and go out of the country.  Michelle is not a good mother and I'm sorry her kids ended up with such a horrible mother.  No kid deserves Michelle Duggar as a mother or JB as a father. 

[Satan'sFortress]

23 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

When my son molested, he was 15 also. He looked much younger than his stated aage, didn't shave, and didn't come into his growth spurt until he was 18... so it's not universal.

That is true--fair enough.  Sorry to hear about what must have been a very painful situation. 

[Four is Enough]

51 minutes ago, Satan'sFortress said:

That is true--fair enough.  Sorry to hear about what must have been a very painful situation. 

It was, and thank you.. we pray every day that it is over... because they only say "low risk to reoffend" they don't say "cured".. and Josh didn't even have the benefit of what he went through, and that was very helpful..

[QuiverFullofBooks]

I went to the grandparenting conference, y'all! I'm in Springdale tonight alone on my way to other plans, and it was virtually across the street from my hotel. (The hotel is almost next door to Marketplace Grill, where I'm writing this.) Even though I'm not a grandparent (or even a parent), it seemed like a sign. I had gone to a thrift store earlier in the day and I swear they had a lime green linen button-down shirt in my size for $5! So of course I bought and wore it.

The first few speakers were okay but not particularly interesting or controversial. Yay, grandparents, yay, Jesus. The audience was very small - only about 50 people, several of whom knew the Duggars personally and were acknowledged in their talk. The attendees were mostly in their 50s and 60s, but I didn't feel out of place being in my 40s.

Michelle and Jim Bob spoke together. They're very good at handing off back and forth. They started out by talking about Mason, and Michelle confirmed that she takes care of the newborns their first night. Jim Bob added that Donald Trump also had his ninth grandchild last week (it seems odd that he's keeping up with them, but his older kids' families are mostly completed and he doesn't have another 14 coming along after his five).

Michelle talked about Tyler in the context of how grandparents sometimes have to parent. (They said on the program flyer that they have 20 children, counting Tyler.) She says he's "made a lot of progress" this year. She digressed from that to tell the story of how her father grew up partially in an orphanage because his mother became an alcoholic after his father died. She tells Tyler to pray for his mother and continue to respect her, as her father did with his mother (who reclaimed him after she remarried).  She explained that that's why she's so against alcohol, and Jim Bob added that distant relatives of his had their lives ruined by alcoholism.

Jim Bob talked about struggling with anger again. He said that fathers should humble themselves before their families and ask for forgiveness for any failings. Michelle said that she talked to her children who are parents about the speech and they said that they appreciated that she bought new baby gear so that they don't have to bring it with them. Also, the kids' friends tell them that their parents don't always support them as parents, and she does. Michelle told the audience firmly that you need to follow the parents' rules on stuff like TV and sweets.

Part two coming up later. Marketplace Grill is really indulgent - the bread is a crusty roll sitting in a pool of melted butter.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

Part two. I forgot that Michelle started out by talking about Mary's example as a mother and grandmother of faith. She said that Mary sometimes taught her grandchildren to evangelize. She first realized how strong Mary's faith was when she caught her finger in a yogurt machine and she prayed instead of swearing. I hadn't heard previously that she started working at the yogurt shop because Cindy worked there and Cindy really liked Mary.

Michelle babysat the older M kids after Mason was born, and she asked them, "what are the three things that the Bible says you should do privately to be rewarded publicly?" They're praying, alms, and fasting. She encouraged the grandparents to pray for their grandchildren, even if they can't do anything else for them. She said that if you skip a fun activity or a meal and pray instead, your prayer will be more powerful. (I'm paraphrasing, but that's the gist of it.) I thought that was interesting because of the discussion on the J-rod thread about Jill not realizing that one of her daughters had fasted all day. Apparently they think it's supposed to be kept private. I'll bet part of the reason why Michelle visibly lost weight during Josh's scandals was that she was fasting for him.

They had handouts: the IBLP character qualities, a list of 16 things to pray for your children (it's also in one of their books), an IBLP handout about praising children, "20 questions to open the heart of your child" (also from IBLP), and an adaptation of 1 Corinthians 13 that Michelle wrote about love being the most important thing she can give her grandchildren.

 I talked to Michelle after the program. She was wearing the exact same outfit from the Bontrager wedding pictured earlier in this thread. She looks really great. I told her so and she complimented me too, and said "I love that color! I have about five shirts in that color!" So it's not one lime green shirt that she wears all the time, it's five shirts! I told her about buying it at the thrift store and thinking of her, and she laughed. She said it's a happy (or cheerful?) color, and then she said - I swear she really said this - that it reminds her of pickles.

[Bad Wolf]

@QuiverFullofBooks Thanks for taking one for the team. When you first mentioned Mary, I thought you were talking about Mary mother of Jesus. Boy, was that confusing.

[SapphireSlytherin]

19 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

@QuiverFullofBooks Thanks for taking one for the team. When you first mentioned Mary, I thought you were talking about Mary mother of Jesus. Boy, was that confusing.

I thought the same thing. Lol

[QuiverFullofBooks]

18 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

@QuiverFullofBooks Thanks for taking one for the team. When you first mentioned Mary, I thought you were talking about Mary mother of Jesus. Boy, was that confusing.

LOL, nope, Jim Bob's mom! I also forgot one non-Duggar thing I wanted to share: the church had this reverse ATM where you could use credit and debit cards to donate! Is that a thing now?

[marmalade]

3 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

LOL, nope, Jim Bob's mom! I also forgot one non-Duggar thing I wanted to share: the church had this reverse ATM where you could use credit and debit cards to donate! Is that a thing now?

I think so, since so few people carry cash anymore. 

[Kangaroo]

3 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

She said it's a happy (or cheerful?) color, and then she said - I swear she really said this - that it reminds her of pickles.

This is my new favorite Michelle fact.

I know we liked to say these people are drinking the Kool-Aid, but really they are steeped in the pickle juice!

[HurricaneBells]

Criticising? Vilifying? Hardly. Poor choice of words? Perhaps. I have 0 judgement about your relationships with your fathers and terms of endearment you share/d. I meant no harm but in my country, my culture, my experience (not speaking for all, just myself) it is not common for a 27 yo male to refer to his father as daddy and would raise an eyebrow. At NO point did i describe it as creepy.  Jeez

[Furbabiesonly]

13 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

-snip-

 She looks really great. I told her so and she complimented me too, and said "I love that color! I have about five shirts in that color!" So it's not one lime green shirt that she wears all the time, it's five shirts! I told her about buying it at the thrift store and thinking of her, and she laughed. She said it's a happy (or cheerful?) color, and then she said - I swear she really said this - that it reminds her of pickles.

This is possibly my favorite thing ever. I wonder if she gets hungry when she dresses? 

[HarryPotterFan]

14 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

I swear she really said this - that it reminds her of pickles.

That's amazing. I love it. Damn, they really like pickles.  

[calimojo]

I think there is a possibility that Michelle might actually be kind of fun, if you could get her to relax and drop the sweet act and the baby voice. 

She has some spunkiness in there  somewhere.  She waterskies and roller skates and probably has other fun talents as well. 

I think Michelle was lost and grieving after her first miscarriage.  And at this vulnerable time they found Gothardism, QF, etc.  She finds herself, with kid after kid and it is hard.  The support system around her, introduce her to the Pearls, and praise it.  She is more and more out of the mainstream at this point, and lacks or chooses not to question some of the more disturbing parts of the Pearl's advice.  To a mom sinking under the pressure of raising 6 or more kids, being told there is a way to train your children to stay in one spot, and not get into trouble, probably sounds really good to someone at near desperation. She believes in the ethic of getting kids to do chores, ( as most of us do), and really resonates with the whole Managing the home, system.  The older kids are getting to the point of being truly helpful.  Order is restored, and many of the people she knows are following the same system and so they support each other, etc. 

Kids keep coming, and JB is successful at scrounging up money, donations, free rent, etc and parlays that all to an adequate lifestyle.  They begin to get fame within their circle, which reinforces their beliefs and methods.  JB enter's public life, and soon the fame spreads, the Show happens, money starts coming in and life gets easier. 

It must really feel like their prayers are truly answered.  They have had reward after reward for their decisions.  But at a price of course.  Lack of Privacy,  scandals, etc. 

I think Michelle came into the relationship with some baggage.  We know, per her own words, she struggled with an eating disorder prior to meeting JB.  We know she seems to carry guilt for her previous life, while also having some pride from it as well.  We see that she likes to share stories of how spunky she was, how sassy she was back then. 

I think she has steeply bought into their lifestyle, but I also think, more than JB, she has also suffered more for it. 

I am not defending her as she has made many bad parenting choices, and has promoted hateful beliefs and judgements on many. 

[rainbowbabycakes]

On 9/5/2017 at 9:04 PM, scoutsadie said:

When I was a kid, you could order "extra crispy bits" at Long John Silver's with your fish. Yum. No idea if they still serve them these days.

And oh yum, malt vinegar! And green chile! Went to Frontier twice in two days this past Jan. in ABQ. Now I'm hungry!

I had a Long John Silver's across from my high school, and me and a buddy would go hang out after school and eat free crunchies,... The workers there would hook us up, and we'd hang out and chat with them... fun times

[potato]

Thanks for your summamry, @QuiverFullofBooks!  That was really entertaining to read.  Also, one of the churches I go to has an iPad with a credit card reader in the narthex in case anyone would prefer to pay for candles/donate by card.

[rainbowbabycakes]

My church just started offering a pay online option on our website.