Duggars by the Dozen 30 - On a Mission from GOD!

[lolo3300]

The state that I work for CPS in would have had Josh moved out of the home with family or friends who didn't have female children till juvenile justice decided what he'd have been ordered to do. We would have offered then court ordered the parents to complete services. My state is really strict about getting offenders and families help even if we have to take them to court. 

Also when you report abuse or neglect in my state you get a very general letter letting you know the case was investigated but you get no information about what happened because that is not your business. 

[doubleT]

@QuiverFullofBooks - Thanks for your recap of the Grand Parenting Conference.  Very interesting.  

Did you get that Chocolate Mess birthday treat while writing your post?    

 

[Bad Wolf]

You can pay online in our church, too. It's so they know what to expect, and I don't have to remember.

[QuiverFullofBooks]

10 minutes ago, doubleT said:

@QuiverFullofBooks - Thanks for your recap of the Grand Parenting Conference.  Very interesting.  

Did you get that Chocolate Mess birthday treat while writing your post?    

 

No, it didn't appeal to me. I got something called the mini angry (meaning spicy) s'mores. It wasn't mini or spicy. It was a pool of chocolate sauce topped with brûléed mini marshmallows, and homemade graham crackers.

9 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

You can pay online in our church, too. It's so they know what to expect, and I don't have to remember.

My church does online giving, but having something that looks like a slot machine that doesn't pay off in the narthex is just weird.

[KelseyAnn]

On the topic of CPS, they absolutely suck. Either they are purposely uncaring or just unable to do their jobs effectively. 

My siblings and I lived in literal piles of cat shit and dog shit and mounds of garbage piled up high enough to block windows. I slept on a goddamn floor with a couch cushion if I behaved myself. My brothers constantly beat me, and not just sibling rivalry crap, they would knock the life out of me. My mother had a large ziplock bag filled to the brim with pills and pot. CPS did a goddam walk through five times before they did anything, and then it was just to give us to grandma for a weekend before giving us back. After that, my mother brought a drug lord into the house- a goblin my mom knew was raping me. Still nothing! My older brother was a known molester too, and that didn't mean shit. I was stuck in that goddamn household for 16 years before getting out. People think parental rights are more important than kids rights so they just keep giving kids back to monsters. CPS needs reformed. 

[2manyKidzzz]

@KelseyAnn I am so glad you survived. You are amazing and strong. 

[KelseyAnn]

1 minute ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

@KelseyAnn I am so glad you survived. You are amazing and strong. 

Sorry for venting. It just pisses me off when people think CPS is some magical institution that always does their jobs. It's just not reality.  

[Rachel333]

For all the fear-mongering in some subcultures (like the homeschoolers I grew up with) about CPS coming to take people's kids away, I feel like I've heard a lot more stories of children staying in abusive situations than children being unjustly removed from their home.

[curlykate]

@KelseyAnn So sorry to hear about your situation growing up. I hope you've found ways to heal. 

I work in childcare and I've seen both sides.....I've seen children removed that maybe shouldn't have been (in my opinion, and I obviously don't have all the details) and I've seen children that should have been removed that never were (again, my opinion without knowing ALL the facts. )

Im sure it's a tough job. I know I could never do it. 

[Jenn The Heathen]

@KelseyAnnI'm sending you an internet hug.  No child should have to suffer in the ways you did. 

My husband has a job that often leads to him coming into contact with CPS and he'll agree that most of the time, they're a joke, not because the workers don't care but because they're hands are often bound by a lack of funds or archaic laws.

[HarryPotterFan]

I'm so sorry you went through that @KelseyAnn.

[lolo3300]

@KelseyAnn-I'm so sorry you had to go through that. I work for CPS and I don't like it when people think we are some magical institution. Like @Jenn The Heathen said we go up against ridiculously outdated laws and there's never enough funding. It is so sad to me that most states put our most vulnerable last when funding. 

[Bad Wolf]

Former CPS worker here. Most are hard working and compassionate. Yes, there were some horror stories, but rarely from continued neglect. Usually because nothing was reported until it was almost too late. I'm sorry you had such a terrible experience @KelseyAnn

[InTheNameofRufus]

@KelseyAnn sending virtual hug your way. No one, child or adult, should have to live in an abusive situation. I'm sorry CPS was not responsive to your needs. I know several CPS workers who are caring and compassionate and really try to make a difference. Unfortunately, as it has been stated, it's not always easy to do because of funding restraints and unfair, old laws that are not updated. 

Thanks for sharing your situation. 

[klabourdeth]

My favorite restaurant out west, that they don't have in Indiana, is Whataburger. When I lived in Arizona for a hot minute, all I ate was Whataburger. Whataburger is what made that satan's armpit of a state, remotely tolerable.

I'm not sure if you can get it or not in Indiana but Whataburger has a series of comederments you can get at the groceries stores now. It's things like the Patty Melt sauce & Spicy Ketchup. Parts of me thinking about getting a bottle of the ketchup for the mini road trip back to Michigan this winter.

[Snarkle Motion]

8 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

For all the fear-mongering in some subcultures (like the homeschoolers I grew up with) about CPS coming to take people's kids away, I feel like I've heard a lot more stories of children staying in abusive situations than children being unjustly removed from their home.

There are no easy answers. I've heard plenty of stories where the kid is more seriously abused/traumatized in the foster care system. And plenty of cases at the other end of the spectrum where CPS did remove a child successfully from an abusive situation. But it's rare, just due to the inherent nature of the situation for it to work out successfully. I worked with one teen who was removed when younger and placed into a great home with relatives, but has enormous guilt about other half siblings who weren't so lucky. And I've seen plenty of cases where nothing happens and kids face retaliation for disclosing the abuse.

But my understanding is that CPS wants to work with the family if at all possible and only removes children if there is imminent threat. Even then it's not always clear and I'm often surprised which kids stay and which are removed and for how long.

[Snarkle Motion]

On 9/17/2017 at 9:59 PM, lolo3300 said:

The state that I work for CPS in would have had Josh moved out of the home with family or friends who didn't have female children till juvenile justice decided what he'd have been ordered to do. We would have offered then court ordered the parents to complete services. My state is really strict about getting offenders and families help even if we have to take them to court. 

I suspect CPS was involved much earlier than is generally assumed in Josh's case. I think it may have been what pushed them to build their house (to have separate bedrooms for boys/girls, Josh having his own, locks on doors etc). And the "deadline" for needing to move into the house may have actually been related to  CPS rather than whatever reason they said on camera. I also suspect they married Josh off relatively early because they needed him out of the house or risk losing custody of the children.

I think Josh going to live with a friend to work construction or whatever they did instead of sending him to actual therapy was due to needing to get Josh out of the house to comply with CPS for a period of time. And I think they were able to avoid criminal prosecution and police intervention due to Jim Bobs connections in the community and as a state senator. I don't for one second believe that they voluntarily took Josh for a "talking to" with a cop who was later caught with child porn. I think it was strategic, CPS got local law enforcement involved and JB was able to finagle getting the department to look the other way, knew who would be on their side and basically sweep it all under the rug.

It wasn't until Oprah reported them that they had to make the real police report. I assume JB got a lawyers advice, was "proactive" by "voluntarily" taking Josh in to make a police report at a strategic time so that they could  inform CPS law enforcement was already involved and have some control of the situation. I don't think it's coincidence that's Josh missed that statute of limitations by mere days, possibly through coaching of the victims about dates/details. 

Keep in mind Josh sued to challenge the rulings of CPS and to seal the info, it just didn't apply to the police report.

 

[MarbleRainbow]

Not sure if this quite slots into the current discussion, but something I've been thinking about lately. I grew up in a "big" family (5 kids in my family, and we were the largest family at my parents' church for many years) and we were homeschooled (I started attending public school in 9th grade).

I have two sisters, but they can sound like 5 when they get going and talking quickly (my one sister has ZERO volume control and is always way too loud). Growing up in such a boisterous family with pretty much constant noise, it's just hard to have any time to think and hear your own thoughts. I can't imagine having 4 times as many kids in my parents' house - I would have gone insane from constantly being around that many people (I am very much an introvert). I shared a room until I was 14, and sometimes I would just sit in the room that has the furnace and water heater in it just to be by myself and get a chance to think and doodle in my sketchbook.

My husband and I were recently at my parents' for a family dinner, and I was exhausted afterwards from so much noise and 5 conversations happening in the same room. When you live in it all the time and that's all you've known, it doesn't seem draining and you don't realize how little mental space you have for your own thoughts. It's taken getting married and moving into my own house and going to counseling for the last couple years for me to be able to truly see the unhealthy patterns in my family. 

With the Duggar daughters, I think sometimes it can be easy to judge them and wonder why they don't break out and leave. Just from my own experience, I don't think they have the quiet and solitude to ever really sit and think over things. When you're constantly busy taking care of siblings and doing chores and are surrounded by over a dozen people all. The. Time. when do you find the mental space to question things? You really have to get away and step out of your "normal" life and be around others who live differently to be able to see how your family is unhealthy. 

I used to be a fairly strict disciplinarian when I'd babysit for other families, and was very much on team spanking is good and the only way to raise well behaved children. Over the last few years as I've spent time with young moms with different views on what the ultimate goal is for their kids (happy kids, not obedient kids), I have shifted and matured on my views and really had a big worldview shift on how I thought about children and parenting. 

I think some of my fascination with the Duggars is that my family was fundie-lite and there are certain beliefs the Duggar parents have that I've realized my parents hold as well. If my Mom had skewed more fundie and my parents had been more controlling, I could easily see me growing up like Jana. 

[Mayluka]

The Duggar's friend Krista has opened up a survey to ask questions about the conservative lifestyle and will be working with her conservative friends to answer the questions in a blog post next week. I really respect Krista and agree with most of what she usually writes. I just thought I would put it here in case anyone would like to respectfully submit a question for her. Here is the link to the survey since you can't copy links easily from Instagram posts: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScUHSV7ug8SJN-rPjvkbJ1cJUlrTr1lnX2OiTEwxp7t11w2Tw/viewform?usp=send_form

 

[Firebird83]

I was going to post about Krista's survey too. Looking forward to reading the questions and answers! 

[BlondeIdol]

On 9/18/2017 at 5:15 PM, Rachel333 said:

For all the fear-mongering in some subcultures (like the homeschoolers I grew up with) about CPS coming to take people's kids away, I feel like I've heard a lot more stories of children staying in abusive situations than children being unjustly removed from their home.

I was homeschooled. My family and a lot of the other homeschooled families I knew growing up (Some of who are still my best friends today.) were all very secular. Being super secular was actually the whole point of our community. Probably isn't what most people picture when they hear 'homeschooling' at all.  My family wasn't always the best growing up but in no way abusive. I can attest there being a lot of fear mongering about CPS, not without reason. I did actually have friends unjustly removed a home once just for being homeschooled. They were able to go back but it does go both ways speaking from my experiences.

[FleeJanaFree]

Kris is a shockingly normal and compassionate friend of the duggar girls. (Wellll, not sure how much their headships allow hanging out these days) anyway, she is welcoming questions we have about conservatives, women in particular. If I understand it correctly, she is a former fundie and now conservative. She lives in NY, did the women's march, and helped legally with the Muslim ban. She gives me hope. I know we can never expect the Duggars to be honest, but I think she would be. I think she is wanting to concentrate on basic Conservative questions, not fundies, but it could never hurt to ask,

https://docs.google.com/forms/d/e/1FAIpQLScUHSV7ug8SJN-rPjvkbJ1cJUlrTr1lnX2OiTEwxp7t11w2Tw/formResponse

 

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

Whether or not CPS should be involved (and to what extent) can be so complicated.  Jezebel had a post today about parents who's lives were devestated by CPS overreach, http://jezebel.com/in-one-day-i-had-lost-everything-that-mattered-to-me-s-1803755823, and it was an interesting read, but even the sample of people who were chosen for the post reflect how sticky the issue is (IMO.)

In one of the essays, CPS took the woman's kids for failing to protect them because she reported her husband's domestic violence (DV) to the police, which I thought was so sad and unfair, because getting help can be hard to do in DV situations, and abusers often threaten their victims (or emotionally blackmail/harm them in some other way) to keep them from coming forward to anyone. In another essay though, CPS took the woman's 2 year old son because she had hit him with a belt, and instead of sounding remorseful, even when recalling it years after it had happened, her response was (basically), "Well, MY parents hit ME with a belt, and I turned out fine!"  As someone who was also abused as a kid, it made me wonder if she really comprehended that what she did to her son was abusive.  

[Greendoor]

My mother and her sister, in their 70's, still refered to Mumma, and Daddy. 

I called my parents Mom and Dad. 

Half the time my son calls me by my name, I am not over fond of it.  I have one child, and I like to be called Mom. 

[JPickleDuggar]

Off topic: but any chance of a Duggar-Wissman courtship? I don't know much about the Wissman's but from the looks of it, they have similar values and standards as the Duggars