Joy and Austin: Attending Conferences and Getting Pregnant

[VelociRapture]

@Rachel333 I have irregular cycles. When I first started trying to get pregnant I seemed to ovulate around Day 33. I have no clue whether that's what normally happens as I conceived that first cycle, miscarried, and became pregnant a second time the next cycle (miscarried February 27 and conceieved again around April 23.)

I only know when I ovulated because of Ovulation Predictor Kits (OPKs.) I knew my cycles were irregular and I had no clue when I'd be ovulating, so I decided to give us the best chance we had. My Doctor used the likely ovulation date for dating my pregnancy rather than Last Menstrual Period (LMP) and confirmed the date during my first (Transvaginal) ultrasound when I was about 5w6d (which is early, but we were being cautious for a number of reasons.) I intend to use OPKs again when trying for our second child in the next few years because they worked so well for me the first times.

I would guess that a Doctor or Midwife of a woman in the situation you described would date the pregnancy based solely off the ultrasounds and, later, off bump size.

@Snarkle MotionOne reason that LMP is still typically used is because ultrasound isn't foolproof. We know when I ovulated and likely conceived, yet my daughter regularly measured a week to a week and a half ahead of schedule for her gestational age (and my belly measured ahead of schedule as well in the third trimester.) Some babies are just genetically big or tiny and ultrasound doesn't necessarily reflect that.

If the measurements are coming back way off, the Doctor/Midwife may adjust the expected due date to reflect that. I think other posters here have mentioned that they or a family member had their due date adjusted later in pregnancy for that reason. I don't think Jill had a ton of ultrasounds during her first pregnancy though - possibly just the one around 20 weeks to determine the SEX - and I'm almost positive her two dates comment was before they knew it was a boy. If I ever have time I'll try to search through google again to see if I'm correct.

ETA: And for anyone wondering, my pregnancy was dated the usual way - two weeks were added to my conception date. The average pregnancy lasts about 38 weeks from point of conception, but most women have no idea when they actually conceived. Going off LMP still gives the best initial time frame for dating a pregnancy and is standard medical procedure. In order to accurately and easily track my baby's development we added the two weeks to her conception date, despite having a very solid date for conception.

And fun fact, my daughter still has two different ages because she's a preemie - 38 weeks by birth age, 32 weeks adjusted age (how old she'd be if she was born on her due date.) The fun continues! 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

10 hours ago, QuiverFullofBooks said:

Yes, the point is that she might have been avoiding her period rather than trying to get pregnant immediately.

When I get married, I am going to be getting a temporary pill to suppress my period because i don't want to deal with that on my wedding day. 

(I don't respond well to taking hormonal contraception, but my doctor has told me there is a pill that can be taken just for a couple of weeks to suppress a period without having the ongoing side effects). 

[Markie]

Where are Austin and Joy living? Are they on his parents' dude ranch or in a home of their own? I would've liked to have seen Joy take an active role working on the ranch. Learning to ride and eventually lead trail rides, kayak, canoe, light camp fires, lead campfire songs... Now she will be shown shopping for used baby clothes, baby proofing her home and making horrible meals. I don't feel sorry for Joy. She wanted to join the Mommy Club. The females in her group spend so much time talking about courting and their Prince Charmings that once they are married, the only thing they can talk about is babies. 

Joy has been quite extreme for a while now. Years ago, Joy was the kid who covered up the female tv hostess' legs and yelled Nike for her brothers.  She never professed to be inquisitive about the world around her, nor did she fake an interest in obtaining any post SOTDRT training: first responder, doula, midwife, photography, music. 

[samurai_sarah]

13 minutes ago, Hashtag Blessed said:

I often think of the identity crisis Michelle has likely gone through, and is probably still going through. She spent so much of her life pregnant and caring for a newborn, one right after another. It would be totally natural for her to wonder "Who am I now? Who am I if I'm not a Pregnant Woman?" I imagine she just tries to pray the bad thoughts away, but they must come flooding back when things like this happen. Joy might just outbreed her. That has to sting.

(snip)

I'm not a psychologist either, I don't even play one on tv, but my inner armchair psychologist for all things internet (tm) tells me that you're on to something.

Here goes my totally unprofessional analysis: Michelle never stopped being that pretty teen cheerleader, in her mind and mental development.  She was adored then, she was adored as a, well, poster-child for fertility, and now doesn't have the maturity to deal with the next season of life. She's still competing in a league she can no longer win, and isn't adult enough to realize that, much less make her peace with it.

Don't get me wrong, I absolutely do not believe that all young parents turn out this way! I think that Michelle turned out this way. I have no opinion about other young parents who don't have a reality tv show, and as I said - I'm an armchair psychologist for all things internet (tm) with a degree from "That School that I just made up".

[JesSky03]

I assume doctors also use the gestational age when calculating the measurements of a fetus on ultrasound too. Like when I had mine done at 6+5 weeks baby would have technically only been 4+5 by fetal age but ultrasound measured baby as exactly 6+5. I'm not sure if they still do that if you don't know your LMP? Or are those dates purely based on fetal age? 

Also, regarding Jill and her dates, she likely did not have a first trimester ultrasound when the dating is most accurate (usually between 8-12 weeks). After that the dating gets less accurate because babies are of course all individuals and grow (rapidly) at different rates.

[VelociRapture]

4 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

I assume doctors also use the gestational age when calculating the measurements of a fetus on ultrasound too. Like when I had mine done at 6+5 weeks baby would have technically only been 4+5 by fetal age but ultrasound measured baby as exactly 6+5. I'm not sure if they still do that if you don't know your LMP? Or are those dates purely based on fetal age? 

It's measured the same regardless. My LMP before conceiving my daughter was when I miscarried two months prior. We still dated the pregnancy the normal way by adding two weeks to when I know I ovulated. So at my first ultrasound I was 5w6d pregnant, but conception had occurred only 3w6d prior. 

[Fundie Bunny]

6 minutes ago, JesSky03 said:

I assume doctors also use the gestational age when calculating the measurements of a fetus on ultrasound too. Like when I had mine done at 6+5 weeks baby would have technically only been 4+5 by fetal age but ultrasound measured baby as exactly 6+5. I'm not sure if they still do that if you don't know your LMP? Or are those dates purely based on fetal age?

Those are still the dates from your last supposed period. Even when refering to fetal age, fist day of pregnancy is the first day of last period. 

[Snarkle Motion]

@VelociRapture If you know when you ovulated that's going to be a better predictor of conception than last missed period. LMP relies on assumption that all cycles are 28 days and that ovulation occurs 2 weeks prior/after your period. 

Yes, it's standard practice to use this method as a reference but it's also misleading. I belive when people use in vitro they know for certain the day of conception and are instructed to add 2 weeks time to calculate gestational age - so that literally they are 2 weeks pregnant the day of the transfer.

If your estimated due date from ultrasound is more than a week after the calculation via ultrasound than you use the ultrasound data, not LMP. This is why I think Jill had "two due dates." The article I remember reading was published right around her first due date. I don't know if she discussed her two due dates before this: http://people.com/tv/jill-duggar-due-date-derick-and-jill-dillard-expecting-baby-boy-to-arrive-late/

 

[Melissa1977]

4 hours ago, SuffolkNWhat said:

The dating thing is used even in cases of IVF where conception is known down to the day! My sister was always 2 weeks "ahead" of when she could actually be pregnant due to this. It's just the way pregnancies are dated and will be used for pretty much all time I reckon (part of that is wanting to get to that "magical" 13 weeks for a lot of women where the risk of MC drops)

Cant speak for other countries but in the UK this is not common, our dating scan is at 12-13 weeks along with prenatal testing for chromosome markers. We don't get another scan until 20-23 weeks for a more detailed health check on the baby (usually the time couples find out the sex if they choose to)

 

. 

In Spanish public healthcare, there are 3 ultrasounds: 12, 20, 32 weeks. But lots of women have private ultrasounds at week 8. Also, using private healthcare for pregnancies is fairly common here,  and private doctors do monthly ultrasounds.

[coexist]

I think I probably talked a bit about this many years ago when I was new to FJ and unintentionally and very enthusiastically derailed a thread (it was good to finally talk about my story but I had no clue about "threadiquette" [lol])... Anyway, I skipped high school after freshman year, started college at 16 off-campus where we were stationed because my mother was concerned I was too young to go away to school. Transferred to a university 3000 miles away at 17, and was on track to becoming a neurosurgeon. Got raped by a platonic "friend" at 19 and my whole life changed. I had my 4lb preemie 8wks early, just under a month shy of my 20th birthday. (Side note, touching back on how pregnant she looks: I didn't show until a few days before going into labor, so yeah, our bodies are weird and interesting!) I was working full time, in school full time, had an apartment, etc. I adjusted to being pregnant and on my own immediately after finding out I was expecting. Quite well, given the particular circumstances of her conception, imho. I still wouldn't want this for Joy at 19, even though she's married and the baby was conceived in love and she's got a giant network of support, and she doesn't have to juggle parenting/work/school/STILL GROWING UP, etc. It would've been nice for her to get a chance to experience more "life", whatever that would've meant with this new headship. I knowwwwww this is all she thinks she's designed for so in her mind she's winning, but damn.

[VineHeart137]

When I conceived my daughter I was positive of the date that my husband and I "did the dance" that created her (we were not trying and there was only one day during which we didn't use protection. It only takes one time, kids!) My doctor's office still wanted to use the date of my LMP even though I knew it would put my due date off since my cycles have always been longer than the standard 28 days. Went in when I was supposed to be 8 weeks for an ultrasound, baby was measuring 7 weeks (and my doctor had me come back in a week to make sure baby was growing which of course freaked me out even though I was already expecting the LMP due date calculation to be off). Thankfully she was growing perfectly, so my doctor adjusted my due date. So my calculated first day of pregnancy was a date 2 weeks before conception that didn't coincide with my period at all. Science is weird, y'all. 

I also didn't get "two free weeks" since my kid didn't make her appearance until 41 weeks. She's perfect though so it's ok.

[scoutsadie]

1 hour ago, LawsonBatesEgo said:

Hell, she wasn't even allowed to kiss Austin until 3 months ago and now she's already knocked up. These poor people don't even get a bit of time to just enjoy having sex for the fun of having sex before they're already pregnant. 

This is what stands out the most for me, too. As a fundy young woman, she was actively discouraged from understanding her body and what feels good and doesn't. And then she's expected to be "joyfully available" at any time for sex with this childhood pal (in addition to all of the adult responsibilities she suddenly took on when she moved out of her parents' house)... and now her body and mind will go through extreme changes over a relatively short period of time, resulting in one of the most daunting responsibilities in the world... to me, it sounds like a horrible foundation for a marriage and young adulthood.

[Tangy Bee]

21 hours ago, Tangy Bee said:

Damn. Can someone PLEASE explain to me how you hide a pregnancy that far along??? Guess the folks in Arkansas don't talk or just don't care. So she had a little secret while sitting on her husband's lap. Oh well. Is this a Christmas baby?

Wait...? Why did I get a -8?? I'm certain this was not the worse thing said. Could someone tell me what I said wrong? 

[BlessaYourHeart]

Can you imagine how excited JRod is that Joy announced she's pregnant? All JRods wishes will be coming true, she's pregnant at the same time as a Duggar! 

I find it so strange that Joy is pregnant, she looks so young. She's only a couple of years younger than me and already married and pregnant. I hope she has a good pregnancy and a healthy baby 

[BeccaGrim]

15 hours ago, Ms. Squishels said:

I am not making fun or being ugly in any way when I say this.  I have large breasts and had a reduction 17 years ago.  She is only 19 years old.  I can't imagine what her breasts will be like after even baby No. 3 or 4.  I think she will be miserable.  None of the others (so far) are built like her.  I hope she can get a reduction one day if she wants to.  I also think her baby will be a girl and I think she will possibly have the most babies out of all of them, maybe even Michelle.

She looks more and more like Michelle to me. Maybe the most like Michelle. 

[bal maiden]

I just watched Boob and OfBoob's congratulations video, and it was just... weird? Michelle wasn't managing actual complete sentences at the beginning. Maybe even they are a bit shell shocked that such a youngster is headed straight into baby territory? That's my optimistic interpretation, anyway. Ben and Jessa's video also seemed a little jaded, Jessa was almost robotic (sarcastic?) when she was saying that children are such a joy and a blessing. The moment that she mentioned they're a lot of work sounded much more genuine and human. 

[ActualReality]

21 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

Well, fuck

http://people.com/tv/joy-anna-duggar-pregnant-first-child/

Well stand on your head if you didn't see this coming!

Also - did I just ready that Anna is expecting #5!?  That poor woman.  

[laPapessaGiovanna]

26 minutes ago, Tangy Bee said:

Wait...? Why did I get a -8?? I'm certain this was not the worse thing said. Could someone tell me what I said wrong? 

People don't have to explain their down votes. If they feel like it fine, but they don't owe you any explanation.

ETA From the guidelines

Quote

No one owes anyone an explanation for downvotes and they can be given for any reason, from serious disagreement to an avatar that doesn't amuse you.  Don't ask about down votes in the threads - that's not drift it's disruption.  Also remember that people accidentally downvote when on mobile so if it happens and there is no other reason to believe your post is objectionable do everyone a favor and let it go.

 

[nst]

for fun

we need a side by side picture of the month before her wedding (where she is standing with Josie) to the one from yesterday where we see the belly 

bueller 

[wandering woman]

26 minutes ago, bal maiden said:

I just watched Boob and OfBoob's congratulations video, and it was just... weird? Michelle wasn't managing actual complete sentences at the beginning. Maybe even they are a bit shell shocked that such a youngster is headed straight into baby territory? That's my optimistic interpretation, anyway. Ben and Jessa's video also seemed a little jaded, Jessa was almost robotic (sarcastic?) when she was saying that children are such a joy and a blessing. The moment that she mentioned they're a lot of work sounded much more genuine and human. 

Michelle and Jim Bob are probably not the least bit shocked that their teenaged daughter is pregnant. Michelle has been tuned out and a bit of a mess for some time, so I'm not surprised that she couldn't coherently express herself. My guess is that they are overjoyed about Joy's pregnancy.

[Seculardaisy]

3 hours ago, wandering woman said:

I used to enjoy following the Duggars and being outraged by their repressive, cult-like lifestyle. Joy's pregnancy is ridiculous, and I'm getting sick of all the stupidity in her family.  She is nineteen, has experienced very little of what life has to offer, and has already started creating what will, in all likelihood, be a huge family.  I am fed up. I may stop following this dysfunctional brood and just go away. The whole thing makes me sick.

I was recently watching season 1 of BUB and Alyssa Bates (Webster) also got pregnant at age 19 and had the baby at age 20. She talked about being 19 in the episode which is how i know.

 

just worth pointing out similarities I suppose.

[Fun Undies]

9 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

I think it is absolutely harder on one sex. There are definitely aspects of fundamentalism that affect men negatively but I think it's really important to make it clear that fundamentalism specifically oppresses women and girls and privileges men and boys.

I certainly didn't mean to come across as dismissive for what fundie women go through in this cult, I apologize, and it certainly wasn't my intent.  

9 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

-snip- I do think it's really important to know that no periods doesn't always mean no ovulation, though, because on forums discussing eating disorder issues I have seen so many women think that they don't need to worry about preventing pregnancy because they aren't getting periods.

-snip-

Same goes for moms who are BFing.  They think because their period hasnt come back, its all good.  Your cycle can change after birth and/or nursing.  Both in length, and days of the month when it used to come, and what it is now.

8 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

How about whether Joy will document her pregnancy obsessively on social media or generally keep it to a dull roar?

Or alternatively, will Joy now join Sierra and Jessa's mom club? (They always post about being part of a 'tribe' )She's never beem that close with Jessa but maybe she will now? Or will her and Jill have their own club?

Yes, she'll document just as "well" as Jill did.  And as to the second question about "tribes", Jill and Joy might want their own one, but will be reminded to keep sweet, and join the already established one.

8 hours ago, calimojo said:

-snip- And, it has been a few years since I worked OB, but Joy looks further along than 13-15 weeks.  Yes, there is a lot of variation in how women carry babies, and that is a significant bump.  There is something in the shape of her belly that just looks well beyond  13-15 weeks.-snip-

I looked 3 months, at ten weeks the first time around.  Bloat.  If she is further than 12 weeks, and maybe even closer to 15 weeks, I think she looks just fine

8 hours ago, Rachel333 said:

This is true. Except for pregnancy and menopause, losing your period isn't a good sign.

Thank you!  I was freaking out a year ago, because my period was ten days late, but had negative pregnancy tests (turns out my endo, and two nasty ovarian cysts were the issue).  Anyways, I was desperately trying to get seen, because I felt something was wrong - and the nurse was like, "oh we only worry if you miss more than one.  It's not uncommon for a woman to miss her period every once in a while."  Like okay, it might not be uncommon, but doesn't automatically mean everything is honky dory either :s

8 hours ago, FeministFunPolice said:

-snip- I don't know shit about how likely someone is to get pregnant at any given moment but it seems reasonable to me that a couple wouldn't get pregnant immediately, especially if the woman had a history of an eating disorder, which I suspect Jinger does. 

Eating disorders can throw off your cycles, and even make you miss your periods.  But once a person is able to conquer the disease, and eat a reasonable diet, then there is no reason she can't go on to have a normal cycle.  There's no reason to think Jinger isn't capable of getting pregnant, just because she may/may not have had an eating disorder in the past.  Now is she choosing not To?  Is there fertility issues??  Who knows, I just don't think an eating disorder is at the root of it.  Just my two cents.

5 hours ago, danni9242 said:

'Wit' used to be a word referring to a penis. So question is, is the Ravenclaw motto secretly a dick joke whilst sounding clever if you don't know that?

I'm saving this forever.  Can't wait to share this with my hubby

3 hours ago, Jug Band Baby said:

A pregnant friend of mine is heeding every caution there is, and she's due in November now.  -snip- She's not doing any activity with any pregnancy warnings, and has even stopped going to any stores with warnings about "birth defects or other reproductive harm."  She already decided that all her medical decisions will be left in the hands of her doctor and she won't question -snip-

I dont know if this is the case with the woman you're talking about.  But I had severe anxiety after my miscarriage, and PTSD, and i was extremly aware of all the things that could go wrong.  If there was even one article swearing off something, i followed it.  I didn't trust my own body, because it had "betrayed" me, so i relied heavily on doctors and nurses to assure me of things.  I didn't eat certain foods, i didn't go through metal detectors, i didn't do certain activities.  So honestly it sounds like she's going through some anxiety of her own :/

[wandering woman]

I realize that Alyssa Webster got pregnant at nineteen. However, she moved to Florida with her husband, started wearing shorts and pants, and has made public statements that she will be limiting the size of her family to six children.  Joy is a completely different type of person. She will follow the fundie lifestyle full force and continue to live near her parents.

 

[Mela99]

I think Mullet's green shirt is one of those things that "Jim Bob LOVES this shirt on me!!" She absolutely dresses for him. 

So she'll wear it till it falls off. That's my only explanation. 

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, Markie said:

Joy has been quite extreme for a while now. Years ago, Joy was the kid who covered up the female tv hostess' legs and yelled Nike for her brothers.  She never professed to be inquisitive about the world around her, nor did she fake an interest in obtaining any post SOTDRT training: first responder, doula, midwife, photography, music. 

Does anybody have urls to the skirt covering or other Nike yelling?  I know it happened, but I just want to see it for myself.  Thanks