Dillards 34: Finding Contentment

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

What ever is wrong with Jill, it isn't life threatening, and that is good, however, it sounds like something went terribly wrong with the birth, that caused Samuel to need extra care and Jill to be out of site for days.

[sophie10130]

1 hour ago, SilverBeach said:

Compassion and concern for human beings, fundy or not, is good. Jill's shitty fundy life exemplifies all that is wrong with that belief system.

But at 26, does she not have any responsibility for her choices?

This is a recurrent argument here: at what age, if any, do adult fundies become accountable for their own hurtful and hateful actions, like voting for Trump? When they marry? Become a parent? Leave home? Hit 30? Never?

If they have a lifelong excuse, then we may as well stop discussing the damage done by fundamentalists, as it will continue unabated from generation to generation.

I don't share the fascination with babies, weddings, and hair. I haven't recovered from Trump's election, and knowing that these people gave him and still give him unquestioning support makes me sick and I just can't squee over them. 

I know I am in the minority here and my rant is over. Back to your regularly scheduled discussion.

 

This is how I feel.

One thing that I realized very recently is that I am now EXTREMELY wary of evangelical Christians in a way I have never been before the election. Hell, I went to a fundie lite church on my own volition in high school and in college after being raised Catholic. A majority of my friends up until very recently were Evangelical Christians. But now all I can think is "Did you vote for Trump?" Especially now that I'm back in the midwest. It's a big cause of anxiety for me for whatever reason. People probably think I'm overreacting, but all I can think is, "You service people of different races, religions, ethnicities, genders, sexual orientations, citizenships, and SES. How can you reconcile that with the fact that you vote for Trump? Are you doing more harm than good in our community?"

 

Also the whole "Two kids are average" excuse Derick gave is just soooo convenient.  Soon it will be "3 isn't that much more than the average" and "4 kids isn't even that many" then "Plenty of people have 5 kids" then "6 kids isn't unheard of" all the while Jill is presumably having kids in rapid succession in increasingly more high risk pregnancies all before turning 30. 

If Derick says "2 kids is average and we are happy where we are. We won't be trying to have more kids. We are content with the ones we have" then I will respect his response. But everything they have ever said and done is supposed to lead us to believe they want to keep having as many kids as possible (AMKAP). Like yeah, 2 kids is average if you STOP THERE, but you won't and we all know it and you know it. 

[nst]

6 minutes ago, sophie10130 said:

If Derick says "2 kids is average and we are happy where we are. We won't be trying to have more kids. We are content with the ones we have" then I will respect his response. But everything they have ever said and done is supposed to lead us to believe they want to keep having as many kids as possible (AMKAP). Like yeah, 2 kids is average if you STOP THERE, but you won't and we all know it and you know it. 

and I don't know if anyone noticed about what Jessa said about her labor being so long and she was so scared....yet at this point we don't know Jill will have a second delivery that mirrored her first but for Jessa to just blatantly say that was a little again passive aggressive to a degree.

Derick and co are just wannabe pretenders who will lie to get their beliefs across

[Kjaerringa]

There was something about Jessa's eyes when she talked about Derick and Jill as godly parents and how she looked up to them made her look near tears...right at the end. Then she finished with a semi-perky looking forward to lots of playdates ending. Yes, I think we can confirm this birth did not go well, and whatever happened, truly frightened people....except possibly Derick. Well...he could be looking so ecstatic simply because she is alive. I'll give him that. I just hope Jill does not think this is punishment for being frightened in El Salvador because she didn't trust God enough, or some other nonsense. I know we don't have any real right to know what happened...but I can't stop being concerned for her emotional well being. 'Doing well' doesn't mean the birth was smooth...in Duggar speak, it just means she isn't actively dying.

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

2 hours ago, NeverBeenKissed said:

Hop on the ferry and come over, I'll give you 2 hugs!  Hello from the West Sound. 

Whaa? I'm on Bainbridge.

[So-Virgin-It-Hurts]

So how many does that make - - - those of us who want to out themselves as being lovers of the PNW and dedicated to the  socialistic leanings of Seattle and her environs?

So-Virgin-It-Hurts - Bainbridge Island

[Bad Wolf]

Wolf boy is in Silverdale and they love it.

[NeverBeenKissed]

17 minutes ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

Whaa? I'm on Bainbridge.

Crazy, I'm not on the island but so close you could probably hear me sneeze. 

[Coy Koi]

48 minutes ago, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

So how many does that make - - - those of us who want to out themselves as being lovers of the PNW and dedicated to the  socialistic leanings of Seattle and her environs?

So-Virgin-It-Hurts - Bainbridge Island

Lifelong Seattleite here. I thank Rufus every day that the Army brought my grandparents to the Seattle area long before I was born, because if not, we probably would have been in the middle of Bumfuck, Nowhere (or we wouldn't exist at all but that's more unsettling to consider). Seattle isn't nearly perfect, nor is anywhere else, but it's a pretty awesome city! To call it a hellhole is ridiculous to the point of being amusing. Seattle is an extremely pleasant, desirable city. If you don't like it, that's a relief, please don't join the hoards of people who are swarming here!

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/16/2017 at 6:22 AM, eveandadam said:

I don't see Jill as  a people pleaser. She was just lucky to have the personality traits of the idea fundie girl without needing much training. To me Jill just seems to most self-absorbed of all the older girls, or: she is just the one who can't hide it as well as the others.

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@Carm_88 replied:

 She does have the traits of a fundie girl but I think if she didn't, she would have molded herself into the perfect fundie girl. Like how she is trying to mold herself into Derick's perfect wife, being happy on the mission even if she's not totally there. 

Putting this way makes her sound like one of my best friends, to think of it now.  She as raised JW, and the way to get the most approval was to be a people-pleaser.  It's really not her nature, but she was shoved into the mold.  Now that she's no longer JW, and her true nature has come out, which is pretty self-centered and just having to be the bestest best that ever bested at everything, something she does it tries overly hard to be the best people-pleaser, and it's really annoying, and she's miserable, because she only cares about pleasing people for the praise she gets, and this is doubly true when it comes to men.  She's been on-again-off-again with her son's asshole dad for all the years I've known her, and she keeps going back to his sorry ass because she thinks a mom, dad, and kid all in the same home looks better and more pleasing to the public and is a better unit than separate homes.  She used to get praise from everybody except me for trying so hard to make it work.  Too bad asshole boyfriend (they're on again right now) isn't trying as much.  He expects a servant and praise, but never says a nice word about her while she praises him for being the bestest man ever!  He doesn't deserve the title "man."

I think that's something that couple keep fundy women with asshole husbands.  It looks better from the outside if you don't know the details of what all's going on beneath the surface.  And if you want to please people for whatever reason, be it because you're self-centered enough to want to put on a show of perfect family even if the kids are paying for it, or because you're a people-pleaser by nature (which might make you marginally happier, but still not fully happy), or whatever, then you stay. 

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/16/2017 at 7:45 AM, SilverBeach said:

I don't know...if one of her sisters was in her situation, you don't think she would spout that contentment crap? Perhaps she would not see her sisters being cruel at all. I never liked Jill and her sanctimonious way of interacting with her sisters, let alone being a narc. 

It is wonderful that Samuel did not suffer from his parents' stupidity with regards to zika.

 

I haven't had a chance to read every post (y'all post too fast for me to keep up!), so didn't see who said that she needs to work on contentment, but that is the exact brainwashing woman-blaming bullshit they're fed.  Do you think they know how to say it's okay to feel sad sometimes?  Or that postpartum is something that is natural and that there's help for it?  Do you think they know what hormones are, and that the sudden drop in them can throw the entire body out of whack, and that that can cause chemical depression that medication can help balance back out?  It's not about mindset, but a real, measurable thing in the body.  But they don't know that.  I swear whoever came up with that contentment bullshit idea just didn't want to spend some money on his wife because it adds up after so many times proving to the world that sex is happening.

On 7/16/2017 at 7:59 AM, So-Virgin-It-Hurts said:

If could have been editing but he shed far more tears about GIVING HER AWAY than all of the other girls combined, seemingly. 

Not saying she's not the favorite because I think she is, but I think "giving away" the 1st-to-marry daughter is a bigger emotional milestone than the rest.  It's like the first grandkid.  The first makes you a grandparent, and the rest are emotional too, but they didn't make you go from non-grandparent to grandparent.  Jill was 2nd to marry, but the 1st to change her name.

[klabourdeth]

Born and raised American and I find so much aspect of the culture here... stalled. I think that the term.

The stallness seems to increase the more you head south and west of the Mississippi to Utah. I grew up in Michigan lived south of Detroit and then as a Yooper during college. Things I took for granted in Michigan just don't translate to other parts of the country. Never paying taxes on food from the market only apply to a couple of other states. Along with a uniform state wide sales tax. Moved to Oklahoma right after college and I paid somewhere between 8.75-12% taxes on my food just depending on what city I was in.

There is so much other variant on other things to. I went from working in a university in Michigan to working at one of campuses of Dullard's alumate. What was appropriate in Michigan was consider to hooker clothes (exact same outfit just a year later) at OkState. If I had a child when I was at OkState all I would have gotten was sick leave & vacation days ( 4 weeks worth) to use along with FMLA. The university I as at in Michigan I would have gotten 6 week pay & FMLA with options to go part time as needed (or the chance to work at home) along with 13 sick days & 15 Vacation Days. The jobs were the exact same in title & duty.

One of things that also help paint the picture of how things are different across states are looking at what pay is along with things like average cost to live in certain areas plus taxes & other fees the state charges. The areas I lived while working at the universities were comparable with Rent & electric bills were the same. Internet cost was $50 a month in Michigan vs $80 a month in Oklahoma. While in Michigan my state income tax was more and the cost I paid per gallon was on average $.30 more then compare to Oklahoma. Buying food from the market ( I mean Walmart) in Michigan would run $40 a week for milk,wine, veggies, chicken, rice, bread, and peanut butter while in Oklahoma minus the wine from the shopping cart would be about $47.3 with the wine it would be an additional $13.3 with an additional stop. Oklahoma charges sales tax on food from the market that changes per city & county. There are also toll roads to that added some additional cost. Once a year Oklahoma has a sales tax free weekend but that can only be used on clothes up to a $100 per store. Another element to paint a picture is when I was living in Michigan minimum wage was $7.40/hr ($8.90 now) compare to Oklahoma's minimum wage is $7.25/hr.

If you want to peel back layers of that prefect picture of America it can get even less pretty. The states with 'right to work' have the potential to make matters worse. Some of the things that unions fought for are slipping away in these states because of unions are getting weaken allowing companies to pay less & offer less benefits. Another ripple that 'right to work' is having that it is creating an opening for companies to get rid of workers for things like the shirt you wearing or the case of other users for about to have a child yet these laws make it so that the employer don't have to give a reason (wiser employers create a paper trail).

From my experience another layer that might not get presented in outside of the states is the... use hard words that are hard understand to confuse and simple and buzz words to make them like you and hate the other side while making sure you look attractive at all times. At least that how I describe this layer. This past year was my first in Oklahoma Presidential Election which meant there was a lot up to vote on. I prefer to be educated when voting so I attend almost every town hall, forums, and debates and record a couple before voting in the primaries & general. Most of these events were for local & state election. The first event I thought it was odd that a pray was done ( it was in a public middle school) before the pledge followed by countless god & Jesus drops that it reached a count larger ' Obama is a Muslim and illegally the president' ( and yes the politician used this phase and he's a US Rep). Policy wise the focused on EPA- bad, ACA-the devil's work and eliminating the ACA, SNap, Wic, and minimum wage is what god want. Going down to each government position up to vote on used the same lines of thinking. A lot of those up for election for state positions focused on making the state a place were abortions meant jail for doctor and the mother, wind power did not need the reduce taxes but only the oil industry does, and ways to be rid of public funded schools because they are not allowed soak students into how Jesus is the only thing that matters. When asking a state rep candidate on minimum wage one came out that it should never have existed or if it must then it be lowered to something like $2. When talking to friends about who they will vote for repeated the same things and asking think this way is because Jesus tells them to

[aprilx]

Re the Jessa video clip, she said it was the day Samuel was born, so why wait til now to release it?  She also said Jill and Samuel were both doing well. Maybe Jill has just had enough negative public reaction and is choosing to step out of the circus?

[MadeItOut]

14 hours ago, singsingsing said:

I just took a look at what Derick's been 'liking' on Twitter lately, and I'd say it answers any questions we might have about whether they're planning to stop at two:

"Two is for quitters" - ugh, I don't know why, but that just makes my blood boil. Fuck off, lady.

Uh-oh. I've a feeling that last 'lady' follows me on Instagram (I'm still learning Instagram).

14 hours ago, Imagine20 said:

I'm not sure what TU system means, sorry I can't speak to that. When I was in high school in the late 90's there was no formal career advice exactly the questionnaire we took our freshmen year, and it gave us a print out of careers we may be suited for. There are also guidance counselors that may help, but I personally don't know of many students who asked for that.

Thanks for this!

Sorry, TU=Trades Unions.

Sounds like we're of an age then - I finished highschool in the summer of '99.

Our school was odd - funny enough, talking with a school mate the other day, we were realising quite how much emphasis there was for us girls on a career until marriage. The computer must've thought I was never getting married - it suggested: Paramedic; Nurse; Funeral director; Florist; Social worker (yes, in that order).

[MadeItOut]

5 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Like others have said, it doesn't. And what's a TU system?

How does a person get on in their career? With great difficulty. It took me ages to find my job. You basically see a job posting, apply, and hope you get selected for an interview out of potentially hundreds of candidates. Through some places might have picked who they want for a position, but the law says they have to post the job to allow others to apply. So you might waste your time applying for a job that's already been filled. It's basically a crapshoot. I feel like it's luck or networking.

Also I don't remember any career advice in high school. 

All of this crap you guys have to go through just elevates my admiration for all the sane Americans I know (you guys all totally count, as do most of the Americans we know IRL - there's always the odd one. No time for the Pres, or Mr Pense, ...or that 'education' woman though).

5 hours ago, Coy Koi said:

It's gonna be a regular hug-orgy up in this socialist hellhole!

Sounds like heaven!

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/16/2017 at 9:17 AM, JillyO said:

Okay, now I'm seriously confused. I know that maternity leave in the US is horrible and absolutely shameful, but I was always under the impression that new mothers had at least the right to take twelve weeks of unpaid maternity leave (how fucking sad is that?!) So I don't understand how it was legal to fire your friend two days post-partum.

Not in small companies.   

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Employees are eligible to take FMLA leave if they have worked for their employer for at least 12 months, and have worked for at least 1,250 hours over the previous 12 months, and work at a location where at least 50 employees are employed by the employer within 75 miles.

https://www.dol.gov/whd/regs/compliance/1421.htm

It's easy to get around this if you have more than 50 employees by giving people less than 24 hours a week.  Schedule someone 24 hours a week, and after their half hour unpaid lunch, they're under that 1250.  If you keep someone working under 30 hours a week, you also don't have to offer medical insurance.  If you don't, they'll have to go to the "insurance marketplace," where they might not be able to afford private coverage.

The place my friend worked had just under 50 employees.  She lost her health coverage, and now she has to go though the marketplace (her husband's coverage can add the baby, but not her, since he can only enroll her during open enrollment, and her insurance loss isn't seen as an exception to that).  Her coverage only covered 60% of the costs.  

The marketplace isn't kind.  The plan I can get next year (I have no coverage right now, and can't see a doctor if I need to, because of a paperwork kerfuffle a few months back) is about $600/mo for myself, and will cover 70% of medical care after I pay a $7,000 deductible, and up to 2 doctor visits a year for a $50-co-pay.  Visits over that will be covered after the deductible.

Welcome to America, where having insurance can mean you can't afford to use it.  This is better than it was, but not as good as it should be.  And we've got an administration that wants to make it worse.

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/16/2017 at 9:56 AM, JenniferJuniper said:

Yes.  As many employers don't provide much more than 2 or 3 weeks vacation time at most and if you're lucky a week or two paid of sick time, most pregnant women I know can't afford to take more than 6 weeks off after using all of their paid time off.  If that.  If you had a surprise baby late in the year and took most of your time off early in the year you could be facing zero paid time off.  I've seen women return a week after giving birth.

Many employers give no vacation at all.  I have a friend starting a new job tomorrow, and she's excited because she'll get a whole 5 paid sick days!  That's only because she got a job in Portland, Oregon, and the city has some new law that employers must give so much sick time, which I'm not sure covers part time or not, but at least it's something.  Another friend started a new job last week, and gets a few sick days too, and she's thrilled.  Both in their 30's, and this is the first paid time either has ever had, and it's still not vacation time.

Quote

Many Americans also don't realize that unless these is a specific federal law or state statute that applies to your specific situation, your employer can fire you because he doesn't like the color of the blouse you wore on Tuesday.  Large employers will find ways to discriminate against older people or people of color.  And most people can't afford to hire an attorney anyway as most lawyers won't take employment discrimination cases on contingency. 

And it's really horribly called right-to-work.  It's really right-to-fire.  There's no right to working about being able to be fired over your blouse, your political views, even saying something on a podcast or somewhere else.  We found that out when my husband was on a big podcast and gave a positive review of some video game made by a company that the company he worked for at the time was somehow involved with, and he was given a warning that he wouldn't talk about anything related to that company, even if it's positive.  We did get a consultation with an attorney, and found out that it's legal for employers to fire over anything you say or do or where or believe in if they don't say it's because you belong to a protected class, like race, religion, or gender, but that they can get around those by claiming it's a performance issue.  The attorney told us this is why Papa John's (I think it was Papa Johns, I can't remember) wasn't in trouble when the founder of the company sent an email to his employees telling them they'd better vote for Mitt Romney or else.  Even who you vote for can legally get you fired.

But even if you're told you're fired because the boss doesn't think women should work outside the home, your really only have the rights you can afford to defend in court.  There's no such thing as equal access to the court.

America is more backward than I think the rest of the world knows, and since we're so used to it, it's more backward than I think a lot of us know too.

On 7/16/2017 at 0:56 PM, SapphireSlytherin said:

Unless the company offers short-term disability.

That's separate from FMLA though.

[JillyO]

9 minutes ago, Jug Band Baby said:

America is more backward than I think the rest of the world knows, and since we're so used to it, it's more backward than I think a lot of us know too.

That, and also, Americans have themselves so convinced they're super extra special (see: American exceptionalism) that no international comparisons make the majority of Americans see just how fucked they are. Americans rank horribly in soo many measures, e.g. infant mortality rates, maternal mortality rates, poverty rates, incarceration rates, murder rates, etc. etc. etc. But any time a non-American dares suggest solutions, you get bombarded with "but this wouldn't work in America" or "well this isn't xyz socialist fairlyland." It's a really horrible situation that makes me incredibly sad.

And in case that's not clear from my post: I love the US dearly, and will soon call it my home. In spite of all these faults.

[wikinggirl]

To anyone who couldn't find the video, here's the link.

And I agree with everyone, it is weird that it is Jessa announcing it, instead of Jill, or even Derrick. I really hope she is OK.

 

[Jug Band Baby]

On 7/17/2017 at 3:28 AM, Queen said:

Reading all your pregnant employee stories makes me feel once again like Americans are living in some kind of dystopian, alternative reality. The US is supposed to be an industrial, western world country, damnit! Are you guys, like, okay? Need some hugs? 

Many.  A paperwork snafu resulted in me losing medical coverage until next year.  This just happened.  I'm have to call today to cancel some upcoming appointments, and and go back to massaging my gut when my hernia pops out.  No surgery now.  I'd be worried sick, except I've had to live most of my American life without medical coverage and know some ropes for getting at least my Wellbutrin on the secondary market.  I'd be angry if I wasn't defeated and resigned to this being American life.

20 hours ago, Timetostoplurking said:

Just a little ray of sunshine....Minneapolis just passed a $15.00/hr minimum wage. City-wide. It will be fazed in over a few years.  So things may be looking up.  A bit....   Sort of......

Seattle did the same, and employers have been cutting down on hours to hurt employee and claim they just can't afford to pay more when they're already charging a fortune for everything.

19 hours ago, PainfullyAware said:

Wow, this thread really paints a picture of income inequality and gender discrimination for women in the US. If you are a single mom earning minimum wage, who also has to pay for childcare immediately after giving birth

Full stop. If you're making minimum wage, you can't afford childcare.  The yearly average for childcare is $11,666 . Minimum wage is $15,080 a year before taxes. If you're a single mom at minimum wage with no support, you won't be able to work at all.

[Jug Band Baby]

9 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

I am sure I would be considered an evil heathen communist by a majority of Americans but I just really love paying heaps of tax and then get stuff like health care and education for free. 

Even our public schools might not be free much longer.  We have a Secretary of Education who never stepped foot in a public school before being appointed.  Literally.  She had never been to one.  When the Senate had a chance to question her, they got 5 minutes each, and kept having to spend the entire time explaining simple questions to her since she didn't know enough about education to know the difference between progress and proficiency.  She's planning to turn the country into vouchers, and each kid gets 1 for a set amount, and then schools can take whoever they want, and they get the money for the voucher.  My kids have higher needs, and last year, were already at a school that could only have kids half a day every other day (we're moving back home in a few weeks, where there are schools that take kids everyday).  Under the current system, they do count as 2 each to help pay for their extra needs.  But when the vouchers start, I don't know if any school will take more expensive kids for the same price as other kids.  So we could be paying thousands more.

[Quiver Full of Kittens]

All of this  is a huge factor in why Mr. Kitten and I are quite possibly not going to have children. He is fortunate to have a very good job, but the industry isn't as stable as we would like. It isn't out of the realm of possibility that he loses his job due to budget cuts/adjustments at any point. His company has done major layoffs twice in three years  

My current job is much lower paying and is contract based. Every time it's up for renewal it's a damn crap shoot if I get to keep working. To get full insurance benefits on my parental care and delivery I have to attend classes a year before conception. I go to classes after I'm pregnant my benefits drop significantly. If never go to the class I have hardly any benefit applied. After delivery  I'd have six weeks unpaid plus whatever PTO I'd managed to accrue. Besides, after paying for child care... I wouldn't bring any income in to our house. Good thing I'm very open to being a SAHM.

Then there is my student debt. Mr. Kittens was fortunate to have a free ride... me, not so much. Forget becoming home owners any time soon. I'm still paying for my crappy dining hall meals...

 

All of this being said though we know we're very lucky in the American landscape. There are others who have it way worse. It just shouldn't have to be like this. 

[SapphireSlytherin]

8 hours ago, sophie10130 said:

SES.

What is SES?

[purpleflowers]

9 hours ago, merg429 said:

I can't seem to find the video of that Jessa posted on tlc.com. Was it just on the main page?

Thanks!

 Is this the one you are looking for?

[Quiver Full of Kittens]

22 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

What is SES?

Socio-Economic Status