Dillards 34: Finding Contentment

[Leftitinmysnood]

I planned for the worst and hoped for the best. I'm a degreed medical professional and my coworkers told me horror story after horror story. My mom had 1 bad labor/delivery and then c sections. I had med free, short labors, all in-hospital, vag delivery.

I always laugh at counting from when your water breaks, because mine had to be done manually each time (and waiting for it to happen on its own added 4 hours of back labor and then stalled). I guess that makes me not "all-natural."

I did have to fire one nurse who refused to call and tell my doctor I was in labor. She wanted to send me home. I had many other great nurses, though. The one with my first was so attentive, she worked very hard to minimize the tearing. By my last baby, they were bringing in the new nurses to observe what an unmedicated birth looked like and my doctor was telling the nurses to let me do whatever I wanted. Not every story is scary and not every bad incident swallows the whole experience. Thousands of babies arrive uneventfully every day.

[Edhelfin]

20 hours ago, Escadora said:

See, now, my personal thoughts on this is that people raised in this sort of environment should become accountable for their espousal of various doctrines and political agendas and, well, call a spade a spade, hatred they spread gradually. I don't think it's fair to say that as soon as a daughter is married off that she becomes instantly accountable and should be heavily scrutinised for each and every little thing they post (of course, I'm not saying that you've said that either), as they go from being treated as though they were children by their parents, who have an obvious and overbearing agenda, to being essentially under the rule of their new husband (I simply won't be convinced that Jinger would still wear pants if Jeremy wasn't both fine with and encouraging about it, for example). 

For me, personally, I think that once a person has had a chance to experience life outside of the upbringing they've had, then they should be held accountable for their opinions and the message they try to promote. And that would go for everyone, not just fundies. Internally held beliefs and opinions are rarely challenged when one lives within an echo chamber, after all, and for all the travelling that TLC had the Duggars do, and all the people they've met, the one lesbian aunt they have, Cousin Amy and her wild (kind of boring actually) life, I really don't think that there was ever one day of any of the children born to Jimbob and Michelle’s (and I mean children as in when they were literal children, and not as a collective grouping name for all of the offspring) lives that the fundie message and all the bigotry that comes with it wasn’t drilled into their heads relentlessly. 

For that reason, I'd grant Joy a heck of a lot more slack than I would her older, married sisters, as they've all had chances to experience life outside of the TTH for longer than she has. I don't doubt she still believes all the same things that they do, but she's not had as much of a chance to be exposed to other ways of thinking and living just yet. 

Of course, spreading their hatred and encouraging others to share the bigoted, awful views they have is always wrong, I'm not disputing that at all. Those hideous beliefs have had produced some awful consequences, though, as an English person, I don't claim to know all about the intricacies of American politics.  Trump is an utter idiot, Pence has evil eyes, and they never should have been given the power they now have.  I'm not educated enough in that field to have much more of a public opinion than that (of course, I have my private opinion, and that's that they're both utter tossers who need to be removed from their positions of power and sent to a tiny island along with the rest of their ilk where they can build all of the walls they want to and never have to be heard from again). 

@SilverBeach I'm just curious, as I've seen you bring up the subject a few times, where do you personally draw the line in terms of accountability with the Duggar offspring? Is it by age or marital status, life experience or children? Another set of criteria entirely maybe?

I apologise, I know it's a sore subject, and obviously don't feel the need to answer the question if you don't want to.  Also, please don't think this was a giant rant at you, for the most part I was merely thinking aloud and trying to word it all in a way that doesn't make me look like a complete arse. 

It's, uh, actually almost half past four in the morning now. So I'm going to leave this like it is and post it, even though I'm not satisfied with how I've explained things. (also apologies if spelling and grammar and other things like that fell apart through this, again, half past four in the morning. I am an adult who makes excellent decisions)

I think the accountability lies with people who give this family airtime because they. just. keep. watching. The show is renewed fot another season apparently. Why? Because it brings money. 

[Carm_88]

37 minutes ago, nst said:

I like hearing about everyone's birth experiences. 

Me too! It's real life and though it makes me realize how not ready I am for kids, you're not getting anything but the truth!  The good, the bad, and the very ugly. 

[Henk12]

3 hours ago, breakfree said:

Try doing it while 35 weeks pregnant with your first... I was just feeling all optimistic from the birthing classes and then BAM....

I birthed an almost 12 lbs baby and had a little "scratch" that didn't really need stitches. No big deal. For every horror story there's a positive one. Good luck and keep reading positive birth stories.

[MadeItOut]

3 hours ago, breakfree said:

Try doing it while 35 weeks pregnant with your first... I was just feeling all optimistic from the birthing classes and then BAM....

Ah. Did they not mention the thing about sharing of war stories being an essential social bonding experience and meant as a supportive, loving eye-to-the-sidelines for the new parent/s

[SapphireSlytherin]

@breakfree Not every story is the same. My pregnancy sucked HUGE (hyperemesis) and I was even still puking in the delivery room. The medical professionals always told me "morning sickness means a healthy baby!!!" in a singsong voice that I found mean (as I was puking my guts out in the hospital, hooked up to IVs to keep me hydrated).

That said - my labor was 12 hours & 47 minutes from first contraction (I was induced) until GryffindorDisappointment arrived - very VERY healthy and a smidge over 7 pounds. I had a tiny tear, with one stitch (didn't care). What mortified me most, though, was pooping on the delivery table. lol

I know you can't wait to meet your baby.

 

[Gobsmacked]

4 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

@Born SkepticYour NICU must have been setup differently than our's then (or your's was just setup to accommodate the most serious cases.) At our NICU, there were three wards in one giant room - no doors separating them. You were buzzed in through the main door, washed your hands, and then walked to the ward your baby was in. Our daughter was in the first one, closest to the door, for the first two or three days. There were micropreemies in their isolettes in that area. Once a bassinet opened up, she was moved to the second ward. The third wasn't really being used at that time as they were getting ready for renovations. 

Thankfully, the NICU was renovated earlier this year. It's now setup to offer more privacy for families and a calmer environment for the babies. All I really remember clearly about her week there was lots of noise and bright lights (during the day - they turned them down at night.) It was tough trying to focus just on baby in that kind of environment or have any type of privacy.

I didn't see any family members wearing gloves or protective gear at our NICU either. I'm guessing there's likely another hospital in the area that would take the most severe cases. It's not the other hospital in that city though because that hospital doesn't have a NICU at all.

The NICU #1 was in allowed no visitors other than parents. It was loud during the day, quieter at night. Lots of handwashing required. We always felt that the light could have been slightly dimmed during the day. We found the atmosphere stressful for obvious reasons but also because of the constantly piped music. Mostly classical. We saw no need for this. Parents with babies in NICU need peace and quiet to talk to the staff. Mothers need to recover, fathers need care also.

When I visited a friend who had a nice peaceful normal birth shortly afterwards, the ward she was on was calm to let mothers rest!! NICU parents weren't afforded any peace.  The hospital #1 was born in is now a block of flats!!!! No more suffering there hopefully.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, foreign fundie said:

I think because birth can be quite a traumatic experience, women like to share their story. It helps process the pain, stress and all the overwhelming emotions that come with it. The harder the birth, the more women will often want to/ need to talk about it. I think I told the story of my last birth many times before I could at all be reconciled to it. It was really scary and I felt so out of control. Telling others your version of the events is a way if saying to yourself that it was ok what you felt, you did good enough and screw everyone with insensitive comments.

So all those who are freaked out or bored, that unfortunately comes with being an unpaid internet therapist  Sorry and thank you for listening. It helps.

 

 

This is so true for me. I had a really straightforward birth. Contractions weren't bad at all. I was 4 cm before we were told I was in labor - we didn't realize before then. Still got an epidural because I wanted to be able to rest a bit overnight. There was some tearing, but I didn't need pain medicine to deal with it or anything. And once the Doctor explained how to push it was pretty easy to finish getting her out.

The only issues were that she was born at 5 pounds and only 34 weeks gestation. The NICU stay was the worst for me, which is why I mention it so much on here - it was only seven months ago and I'm still kind of traumatized by that experience in one ways. Talking about it on here helps a bit.

[Henk12]

21 minutes ago, MadeItOut said:

Ah. Did they not mention the thing about sharing of war stories being an essential social bonding experience and meant as a supportive, loving eye-to-the-sidelines for the new parent/s

Really though. Most (not all) share these stories to bond and remember having their own kids. There are always those assholes who try to scare new parents but I don't think anybody here is doing that. 

I've had easy birth and traumatic births. Talking about it helps you process. I need to process the easy birth I had because it happened so fast I felt like I missed it. 

[Gobsmacked]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

For a bit of balance or the extreme other side of birth stories, none of my labors was over 4 hours long.  Unlike the Duggars I was told to count from regular solid contractions not water breaking.  I was never in agony or excruciating pain.  I had a few painful but not debilitating contractions with the first labor less than half an hour before pushing.  I never experienced the "ring of fire" and the fastest labor I had one painful contraction in addition to the one where they ran the gurney into the doors during a contraction. The fastest  labor was just over an hour and a half and it only took one push for the baby.  We all do it differently and you may not know your style until you get there. 

Blimey, I wish I had your body!!

7 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

This is so true for me. I had a really straightforward birth. Contractions weren't bad at all. I was 4 cm before we were told I was in labor - we didn't realize before then. Still got an epidural because I wanted to be able to rest a bit overnight. There was some tearing, but I didn't need pain medicine to deal with it or anything. And once the Doctor explained how to push it was pretty easy to finish getting her out.

The only issues were that she was born at 5 pounds and only 34 weeks gestation. The NICU stay was the worst for me, which is why I mention it so much on here - it was only seven months ago and I'm still kind of traumatized by that experience in one ways. Talking about it on here helps a bit.

I totally agree. #1 is 21 now. Taking about his birth with other FJrs is very therapeutic. When talking to other mums in real life they glaze over as most had reasonably normal birth experiences. Us NICU mums have to be able to vent safely somewhere. 

[VelociRapture]

13 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

The NICU #1 was in allowed no visitors other than parents. It was loud during the day, quieter at night. Lots of handwashing required. We always felt that the light could have been slightly dimmed during the day. We found the atmosphere stressful for obvious reasons but also because of the constantly piped music. Mostly classical. We saw no need for this. Parents with babies in NICU need peace and quiet to talk to the staff. Mothers need to recover, fathers need care also.

When I visited a friend who had a nice peaceful normal birth shortly afterwards, the ward she was on was calm to let mothers rest!! NICU parents weren't afforded any peace.  The hospital #1 was born in is now a block of flats!!!! No more suffering there hopefully.

Thankfully there wasn't music at our's. Just a lot of machines making noises and alarms. Our daughter is an absolute rockstar about not crying over loud noises though, so maybe that part worked in our favor. 

I think the toughest part for me was not being able to be a normal mom, especially in the age of social media. You see all these new parents posting photos of their healthy newborns or snuggling them at home all while your kid is still at the hospital. You can't pick them up and walk around because of the wires and if you accidentally bump a sensor wrong then an alarm goes off. Or you see photos of new families leaving the hospital together for the first time and you start crying because there's nothing more unnatural than walking out off a hospital without your new baby.

[MadeItOut]

14 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

Blimey, I wish I had your body!!

I totally agree. #1 is 21 now. Taking about his birth with other FJrs is very therapeutic. When talking to other mums in real life they glaze over as most had reasonably normal birth experiences. Us NICU mums have to be able to vent safely somewhere. 

Also that prism of fundiedom where you're not allowed to be afraid, or anything less than 100% satisfied with your birth, and where if you are caught traumatised you then have to deal with correction, that does damage too. That's one of the most awesome things about FJ - not only is it a safe space, but everyone here 'gets' that particular flavour of madness and danger.

[Gobsmacked]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

Thankfully there wasn't music at our's. Just a lot of machines making noises and alarms. Our daughter is an absolute rockstar about not crying over loud noises though, so maybe that part worked in our favor. 

I think the toughest part for me was not being able to be a normal mom, especially in the age of social media. You see all these new parents posting photos of their healthy newborns or snuggling them at home all while your kid is still at the hospital. You can't pick them up and walk around because of the wires and if you accidentally bump a sensor wrong then an alarm goes off. Or you see photos of new families leaving the hospital together for the first time and you start crying because there's nothing more unnatural than walking out off a hospital without your new baby.

Totally. After #1's birth I was alloted a bed in a ward full of mums with their babies. I'm normally a coward but kicked up a stink about this. I was kept awake by 3 babies whilst mine was in NICU.  On day 2 after his birth, myself and 3 other mums with babies in NICU were moved into a little ward by ourselves. Much more sensible. The dads were able to bond also. The ward sister was amazed at how well we all did!!! Common sense wasn't present in that hospital sadly. I was so glad when it closed. 

[Baaaaaabe]

23 hours ago, Iamtheway said:

Also my legal right to work part time, to not be fired when I'm sick and my right to four weeks paid vaccation in the summer time. And I wish I could shake every stupid Swedish person that doesn't understand how awesome we have it and is ruining it with their selfish me first attitude. Sadly there are way to many and my arms would get really, really tired.

I am sure I would be considered an evil heathen communist by a majority of Americans but I just really love paying heaps of tax and then get stuff like health care and education for free. 

As someone with multiple, soul-sucking chronic health problems, this sounds like a dream. I am having such a difficult time keeping up with full time work but I can't afford to give up my benefits to work part time (FMLA eligible leave, paid time off, health insurance, etc.).

[Denim Jumper]

I try not to share my birth story from my last baby, because I know it will scare the piss out of expectant mothers. I'm still too shell-shocked to finally make the appointment for my postpartum check-up. The baby is nearly 7 years old. 

[Gobsmacked]

3 minutes ago, Denim Jumper said:

I try not to share my birth story from my last baby, because I know it will scare the piss out of expectant mothers. I'm still too shell-shocked to finally make the appointment for my postpartum check-up. The baby is nearly 7 years old. 

Sending hugs your way.

[MadeItOut]

3 minutes ago, Gobsmacked said:

Sending hugs your way.

Seconded!

[SoSoNosy]

29 minutes ago, MadeItOut said:

Seconded!

Me too!

[Analytica49]

On 2017-07-17 at 9:48 PM, SilverBeach said:

This is a recurrent argument here: at what age, if any, do adult fundies become accountable for their own hurtful and hateful actions, like voting for Trump? When they marry? Become a parent? Leave home? Hit 30? Never?

If they have a lifelong excuse, then we may as well stop discussing the damage done by fundamentalists, as it will continue unabated from generation to generation.

I don't share the fascination with babies, weddings, and hair. I haven't recovered from Trump's election, and knowing that these people gave him and still give him unquestioning support makes me sick and I just can't squee over them. 

 

Thank you for this, @SilverBeach. I share your views.

The Duggar family--and TLC--know that the way to market this program is by showing us beautiful weddings, heroic birth stories, and charming babies. But these images simply disguise the oppressive and bigoted reality of Quiverful life; they do not change it.

[BabiesForJesus]

Coming out of "josh the molester is just a rumor" lurkdom to share this. I believe this is the first post from Jill since the birth, no? 

[Carm_88]

What are those pamphlets in the background? 

[BabiesForJesus]

15 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

What are those pamphlets in the background? 

They look like something from a doctors office/hospital. And it looks like Izzys shirt says "I'm the big brother". 

 

Perhaps a photo from the the hospital after SSD was born? I don't think I've seen this photo posted elsewhere before 

[SapphireSlytherin]

17 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

What are those pamphlets in the background? 

Worse:  why does she have one unread notification??? (Seriously - I can't stand those red notifications, whether they're Insta, text, phone, email, snapchat, etc...)

[Kayleigh83]

16 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Worse:  why does she have one unread notification??? (Seriously - I can't stand those red notifications, whether they're Insta, text, phone, email, snapchat, etc...)

That wouldn't be her notification,  but the notification of whoever took that screenshot, presumably BabiesForJesus.

 Backtracking a little, but I find all of this discussion about healthcare in the US to be fascinating and horrifying.  I live in Canada, in British Columbia,  and generally speaking you really don't pay for anything here out of pocket.  As a single person in my earning bracket I pay about $65 a month for MSP which is medical services premium.  How much you pay depends on family size and income, and if you earn under a certain amount  ( I believe it's 25,000 or 20,000 a year)  you pay nothing.  Many provinces don't charge MSP as a separate bill and it's  just sort of rolled into general taxes you pay from income.

Some full-time employers who offer extended health benefits will pay your MSP for you, and those same pemployers usually offer extended health benefits for things like chiropractor, massage, acupuncture, and things like disability leave and vision care and dental benefits.  So if you don't have benefits from your work you generally have to pay for your own dental care, vision care etc. but no one has to pay out-of-pocket in Canada for doctors office visits, hospital visits, anything like that.  In total I would say my expenses are the $65 a month for MSP and the amount that gets deducted off my paychecks for extended health benefits are maybe $100 a month?  But I try to make it worth my while by using the $500 a year I get for for chiropractor and massage ( each separate limits) and so on - it pays for itself.

ETA -  I forgot to mention when it comes to prescription drugs that generally that is something that's covered under extended health benefits through your employer, however from what I know the full price of prescription medicines is much lower than what you see in the United States anyways.  It's very possible there is some sort of assistance for people without employer benefits depending on their earnings bracket, but I've been working at a job where I've had benefits for long enough that I've never really had to find out.  In my case my health benefits through work pay either 80% or 90% of the cost of prescription drugs and I just pay the difference at the pharmacy counter.

[BabiesForJesus]

15 minutes ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

Worse:  why does she have one unread notification??? (Seriously - I can't stand those red notifications, whether they're Insta, text, phone, email, snapchat, etc...)

Hahaha it's a message from a "friend" about becoming a MLM consultant under her. Avoiding it on purpose