Joy and Austin: Back in Arkansas?

[Greendoor]

3 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

snip  snip snip

Paul was definitely a misogynist by today's standards. By his day's standards? Eh. There's a reason so many of the early converts to Christianity were women. It definitely wasn't worse, generally speaking, than the other alternatives, and may very well have been better. There's also some debate about whether Paul actually even wrote the more anti-woman sections of his letters. He certainly seems to respect a number of women and hold them in very high regard, specifically naming them, greeting them and praising them, speaking of them as leaders in their communities and churches. 

snip snip  snip 

I think this section of Paul get a lot of bad wrap.  Greek culture didn't really treat women well, and Paul only stated the party line re their obedience.  Men on the other hand were told to Love their wives.  That's a greater duty really at any time but even more so in that society.  He also talks about how women dress.  And that would equate to today I think.  People spend so much time and effort on how they look, what they wear, make up and hair.  Is that really what Christianity is about?  

[Fatuhiva]

Yes!  Agreed, if divine DNA doesn't exist, Jesus would have identical DNA to Mary - his only human parent.

[Greendoor]

3 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

If Jesus was married, then there would be no reason for RC priests not to marry.

You bet you sister.  In early times lots of wealthy families supplied sons for the priesthood.  Guess what instition inherited since there was no wife or kiddies?

 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

13 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

OK I am going to get slaughtered for this, but here goes.

The Bible is a book made in about the year 300.  Lots of books got in, and even more didn't make.  Yes, the Apocraphy are a part of those books, but there were a whole lot of other Gnostic and otherwise. 

The authorities, yes MEN, chose what books when in.  We know that they summed up all the Mary's with two archetypes.  Mary the mother of God (all decent women - virgin no less) and Mary Magdelan, all who were not so good.  For the record the woman caught in adultery was not named.  

I agree with most of this, except the Bible is closer to 2000 years old than 300 years. The 1st hand written bible in the English language was done in the early 14th century I think (I'm pretty sure it was ye 14th century but not totally ire about the early part) so the Bible as we know it today was translated over 700 years ago.

[crazysnark]

I never got the view that Jesus believed in equality of men and women. As soon as he heals a woman she jumps up and starts "serving them" and in numerous places talked down to his biological mother. I don't think he was super sexist but I also don't believe he is the feminist a lot of liberal christians like to paint him out to be. I also do think Jesus was married. Even Peter who is supposed to be the first pope was married. His mother in law is mentioned in the bible. Priests not being able to be married only came about because of inheritance like someone already mentioned. It didn't have much  to do with religion itself. 

[Four is Enough]

When I married the second, non practice husband, I kept the maiden name I'd hyphenated for the Practice husband. My mother sent me letters addressed to"Mrs. His first name Four"... I sent them back till she got the message. It took about four tries.

[Lurker]

I never changed my name but both families address mail to Mrs. Robert Smith. My mother bought some small stocks in trust for me and when she died it was a nightmare to get it into my account because I did not have any accounts nor ID that used my husbands last name.

 

[Coconut Flan]

4 hours ago, Buzzard said:

If catholic priests married there would be inheritance issues that would interfere with the church's money and property.  Its as simple as that.

There might have been an issue centuries ago, but none currently at least not in the US.  All church property and money is held by the church as a legal entity and has been for centuries.  The priests have no title to either the parish buildings or funds and neither do the priests assigned to the various diocese offices.  Currently the biggest objection to married priests, is how much time, effort, and energy it takes to be a priest and that a man could not serve both the church and a family.  Yeah, they still can't get over that man business. 

[crazysnark]

Just now, Coconut Flan said:

There might have been an issue centuries ago, but none currently at least not in the US.  All church property and money is held by the church as a legal entity and has been for centuries.  The priests have no title to either the parish buildings or funds and neither do the priests assigned to the various diocese offices.  Currently the biggest objection to married priests, is how much time, effort, and energy it takes to be a priest and that a man could not serve both the church and a family.  Yeah, they still can't get over that man business. 

Well that would mean they would have to admit this is the reason they can't marry. When asked they will usually say because Paul instructs people to only get married if they can't control their sexual desires. 1 Corinthians 7 " To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." Apparently Paul was asexual? ha

[Coconut Flan]

I've never heard a Catholic priest say that as an answer for why priests can not marry.  Perhaps some do, but not the ones that I've met.

Originally priests could be married.  In the Eastern Orthodox church (which was joined with the Catholic Church the first 1000 or so years) still allows married priests if they marry before ordination.  On the western side it wasn't the church property in question so much as church preference.  Priests were appointing their sons to plum positions. 

It isn't dogma, but tradition that priests can't marry so it could change again back to having married priests.  In fact some are now under very defined circumstances.

[JesusCampSongs]

2 minutes ago, Coconut Flan said:

It isn't dogma, but tradition that priests can't marry so it could change again back to having married priests.  In fact some are now under very defined circumstances.

Everyone needs to go read Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood. Her father is a Catholic priest and got a dispensation from the Vatican because he was already married and working as an (IIRC) Episcopalian priest when he decided to become a Catholic priest. Not only is it weirdly educational, it's absolutely hilarious. 

[Daisy0322]

 

5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

I'm not Jewish, but my study of history tells me that an unmarried person at that age was almost unheard of. I'm also fairly certain Mary Magdalen was his wife, she was made to look like a prostitute in the early church to avoid the appearance that Christ did indeed marry.  

But what I don't understand is if he was married what is the big deal? The Bible says he was without sin, but having a wife isn't sinful and having sex during marriage isn't sinful, so him being married doesn't take away from his sinlessness. Why do people get upset at the idea Christ was married?

I've seen a few documentaries and read a few papers therorizing Mary magdalen was his wife. Honestly it makes sense. Plus, she was the first to see him after he rose... and let me tell you if my husband died and was going to rise again he'd know I would have a bitch fit if I was not the first to know! Haha

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, crazysnark said:

I never got the view that Jesus believed in equality of men and women. As soon as he heals a woman she jumps up and starts "serving them" and in numerous places talked down to his biological mother. I don't think he was super sexist but I also don't believe he is the feminist a lot of liberal christians like to paint him out to be. I also do think Jesus was married. Even Peter who is supposed to be the first pope was married. His mother in law is mentioned in the bible. Priests not being able to be married only came about because of inheritance like someone already mentioned. It didn't have much  to do with religion itself. 

I remember taking a New Testament as Lit course in College. We spoke about Jesus' reaction to his mother at the wedding - how she was bugging him about the wine and he was getting snippy with her. The general consensus among the class and Professor was that they sounded like the stereotypical Jewish mother and son. Kind of like an ancient version of the Walowitzes from The Big Bang Theory. 

[Jana814]

@VelociRapture I love Big Bang Theory. That scene was so funny. Sad that the woman who played Howard's mother died.  I've missed the banter between him and his mother. 

[HarryPotterFan]

@VelociRapture Headcannon accepted. I will now forever associate the Jesus/Mary relationship with Howie/his mom. Amazing. I'm imagining Mary offering Jesus and the apostles a delicious snack.

[Greendoor]

1 hour ago, Coconut Flan said:

I've never heard a Catholic priest say that as an answer for why priests can not marry.  Perhaps some do, but not the ones that I've met.

Originally priests could be married.  In the Eastern Orthodox church (which was joined with the Catholic Church the first 1000 or so years) still allows married priests if they marry before ordination.  On the western side it wasn't the church property in question so much as church preference.  Priests were appointing their sons to plum positions. 

It isn't dogma, but tradition that priests can't marry so it could change again back to having married priests.  In fact some are now under very defined circumstances.

If you are married in Eastern or Russian Orthodoxy you can be a parish priest.  You can not be a bishop or anything higher, for that you must be celebate.

The defined circumstance for married RC priests I believe to only when a married priest from the Anglican Communion converts.

 

[freshlemonade]

2 hours ago, crazysnark said:

Well that would mean they would have to admit this is the reason they can't marry. When asked they will usually say because Paul instructs people to only get married if they can't control their sexual desires. 1 Corinthians 7 " To the unmarried and the widows I say that it is good for them to remain single, as I am. 9 But if they cannot exercise self-control, they should marry. For it is better to marry than to burn with passion." Apparently Paul was asexual? ha

Cue the Duggars rushing to marry Josh off. 

[Jana814]

20 minutes ago, freshlemonade said:

Cue the Duggars rushing to marry Josh off. 

Exactly they got him married as soon as he was will to. 

[twoanddone]

Hi liberal Christian!! I'm one too!

15 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

A thousand times yes. I'm an extreme liberal Christian and I don't feel that my being a Christ follower gives me speshul snowflake status.

 

[subsaharanafrica]

4 hours ago, JesusCampSongs said:

Everyone needs to go read Priestdaddy by Patricia Lockwood. Her father is a Catholic priest and got a dispensation from the Vatican because he was already married and working as an (IIRC) Episcopalian priest when he decided to become a Catholic priest. Not only is it weirdly educational, it's absolutely hilarious. 

At the time the rules changed 5-10 years ago so that married Episcopal priests no longer require dispensation to convert and become Catholic priests there were a few hundred married priests. I've not seen the numbers since but I'd imagine that number has gone up. 

[VeryNikeSeamstress]

6 hours ago, Fatuhiva said:

I think it's entirely possible Jesus was married.  I don't see a problem if he was married and had kids.  Who's to say that his divine side could be passed onto any children he fathered?  His progeny  might have been completely human, no more special than anyone else.  Also, 2000 years later his DNA would have been so diluted thru the generations that any of his descendants alive today might have very little of his DNA anyway.

Or maybe he was gay.  Being  human it's likely that he had sexual urges, and if he really wasn't married, maybe he was attracted to men.

Well, he did spend most of his adult live hanging out with a group of 12 men (disciples). Perhaps Mary Magdalene was his beard?

[HOTW]

On 04/07/2017 at 4:33 PM, Kittikatz said:

 

Why does TLC continue to support this family? 

They continue because people continue to view the show. They follow them on social media amd they buy the magazines they are in.

 

If everyone were to stop doing all this they would disappear.

[speller24]

21 hours ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

I just watched this week's episode (in the background, while doing housework), but I was struck by how happy and friendly the Forsyth family seems! Mr. Forsyth (who looks super grumpy in the wedding photos) was quick to do what his wife asked him to do, he greeted Joy warmly, etc.

Mrs. Forsyth, also photo-grumpy, was all smiles and friendly as well. You can tell they love Joy and their children and are true PARENTS.

Truth:  I've not watched the Forsyth thing on World's Strictest Parents.

They were really nice on that show too. Just a bit ridiculous in their beliefs on men and the women folk. lol So nothing but pleasant people, but really really backwards views on gender roles. COLOR ME SHOCKED! lol 

6 hours ago, twoanddone said:

Hi liberal Christian!! I'm one too!

 

Me too!! BFFS!

[Carm_88]

Misogynistic and church shall always lead me back to the "delightful" and "educational" Confessions by St. Augustine of Hippo. Basically, women are the worst thing ever, they shall lead you into temptation, he has been led into temptation and he loved it, but don't you have any fun! No learn from him and his sinning. Excuse me while I gag!  

[VelociRapture]

46 minutes ago, Carm_88 said:

Misogynistic and church shall always lead me back to the "delightful" and "educational" Confessions by St. Augustine of Hippo. Basically, women are the worst thing ever, they shall lead you into temptation, he has been led into temptation and he loved it, but don't you have any fun! No learn from him and his sinning. Excuse me while I gag!  

Why does this sound like the ancient world version of Zach Bates' kissing confession to his parents?

"I kissed a girl (premarriage) and I liked it. BUT DON'T YOU YOUNGER SIBLINGS DO IT BECAUSE ITS DIRTY AND SINFUL AND YOU WILL DIE!!!!!!" 

(I may or may not have embellished... )