Counting On: Season Four Part 3

[Million Children For Jesus]

Jill isn't my Duggar that I love to hate, so I don't see the brat in Izzy. VelociRapture pretty much summed up my feelings about Jill on page 13 in this thread.

Izzy seems like a regular, curious two-year-old, with all the age appropriate behaviors that go along with that. I felt the Duggars made a couple of digs on Izzy being a handful, but I took that in part as weird blanket training ideals of how kids should be disciplined, and part veiled insults towards Jill not redirecting him or watching him appropriately, which might reflect more on their unrealistic expectations for children's behavior, and less on Jill's parenting. Granted, she does seem out of the loop at times. (The fan and water dispenser are good examples.) Of course, Derick could step in and help. (Just kidding. Haha)

[HarryPotterFan]

3 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I am convinced well behaved toddlers do not exist. My nieces were more than a handful. Then again, Daisy women are not known as docile, young or old.

Toddlers aren't supposed to behave  I say this as someone who studied child development. They're learning "I am my own person and I can say no or negotiate to get what I want." I'm sure lots of people here, especially parents, know this/have experienced this. I just wish the Duggars knew it. 

Toddlers are also absolute bundles of energy. I'm waiting for a scientist to figure out how to harness that energy and sell it as a pill or drink. 

[feministxtian]

Toddlers are wonderful little creatures who are learning about their world and finding out where the limits are. They have meltdowns because they want to do something or say something but their little bodies just aren't capable of it yet. They get frustrated and have a bit of a hissy fit about it. For example, they don't really have the coordination yet to feed themselves with a spoon...BUT...they don't want help. As they get older, it gets better. We had our grandson living with us through much of his toddlerhood. He was SO much fun! 

BUT...I don't think good old Jilly-muffin understands that. From what I've seen of Izzy (admittedly, not very much), he's a normal 2 year old. A little rowdy, an explorer, enjoying learning about life. His parents, on the other hand, are a couple of pieces of shit who can't get THEIR act together to provide a stable home for their son (or any subsequent children). 

[RosyDaisy]

I wouldn't trust Jill to properly care for pet. According to our mother, my sister and I were little hellions, but loveable.

[JMO]

It also occurred to me that since Jill is the Duggar child that was the absolute poster child for being well behaved and easy to parent/control she might not understand what it's like to not be obedient.  Jessa probably would understand that more. It helps when parenting to understand why a child might not want to obey even if they know the consequences.  Izzy may be especially active and headstrong for a toddler. That makes it all the sadder if they train that out of him rather than mold him into a strong independent person.  

[MadeItOut]

11 hours ago, onekidanddone said:

Eleventy Gazillion million 

Phew! A total.

...did you show your working though

[nastyhobbitses]

1 hour ago, JMO said:

<snip>

That makes it all the sadder if they train that out of him rather than mold him into a strong independent person.  

I don't think it's a question of if so much as a question of when.

Israel is a normal two-year-old boy and seems like a perfectly sweet, rambunctious little kid, and I think Jill was expecting a baby doll (and furthermore, a baby doll she could hand off to a sibling when she was busy or bored -- then Scary Central America happened).

[VelociRapture]

7 hours ago, HarryPotterFan said:

Toddlers aren't supposed to behave  I say this as someone who studied child development. They're learning "I am my own person and I can say no or negotiate to get what I want." I'm sure lots of people here, especially parents, know this/have experienced this. I just wish the Duggars knew it. 

Toddlers are also absolute bundles of energy. I'm waiting for a scientist to figure out how to harness that energy and sell it as a pill or drink. 

The second they do I'm signing up. My six month old has more energy than me... through, to be fair, that's probably because I don't get enough sleep between her, the dog, and my husband (who just wants  to relax and watch some tv with his wife after a long day... I can't say no to that.)

And I think the issue people have with these kids, Josie and Izzy specifically, is two-fold:

1. First, you have the dislike for the parents transferring to the child (as @Hmmm_idolatry and @Nikedagain?both pointed out.) Its not fair because each person is unique and the child shouldn't be judged by the words and actions of the parents - but I think it's understandable to an extent.

2. The second part is the Duggars' adherence to such strict behavioral standards for even very young kids. When one kid acts in a way that doesn't adhere to those standards, they really stick out and can come across as "bratty" or "unruly," even if the behavior is completely appropriate for the developmental stage the child is in.

My nephew is around 1.5 and was assessed recently for developmental delays. Results came back normal (thankfully), but while he scored high or on average for almost everything he also scored low on social interactions with other children. He has no issues socializing with adults because he's around adults on a constant basis, whereas he isn't around other kids too much (through no fault of anyone.) He's super sweet with my daughter though and clearly had an interest in socializing with his peers. The professionals made some good suggestions on how to help him develop those skills, so well see what happens.

All that to say, I'm guessing there could be a similar issue going on with Izzy. He appears to do well with adults, but who knows how often he interacts with other kids in SCA. And adding him in with his cousins after not seeing them for an extended period could bring other issues out - like him not knowing where he fits in or feeling left out by the others (who likely know each other well) or feeling confused or overwhelmed because his life suddenly stopped  being consistent again.

I'm willing to cut the poor kid slack. It's just not fair to compare how he acts to how Spurgeon acts when they have different personalities and vastly different upbringings (just like its unfair to compare Jessa and Jill as mothers.)

[Iamtheway]

They don't want him to be independent. They want him to be a clone in their Jesus army. 

It's beyond sad. 

[Buzzard]

So, who can do tonights recap for me?  It looks like I have to work at the same time the show is on.  

I also wont be around next monday! AHHHH

[BadMammaJana]

I really wouldn't be surprised if "choo-choo" came from the word "chucho" which is common in central America. A poster mentioned in this thread, or the grifting thread, that its a nickname for the name Jesus. It's also a nickname for rowdy little boys, because it means something like "wild dog." My mom calls my 1 year old "chucho" because he's a handful, and I wouldn't be surprised if one of the locals the Dillards tried to convert called Izzy that after seeing him act up as toddlers do. It's more of a kind of affectionate name though. I can see "chucho" turning into "choo-choo" especially if Izzy calls himself that. 

[nst]

so I think that the birth scene will be the last 10 minutes 

until then we have asking jinger if she is pregnant and jessa's pretend 150 party 

[Yaoichan12]

Watching last weeks episode now and Joy is planning S. Elliot's first birthday and it annoyed the crap out of me seeing her delegating what needed to be done and how the girls were to help baking and what not and the boys didn't have to unless they wanted to. I mean, I'm not surprised, but still annoyed. 

[MarblesMom]

Can I just say I have a hard time with a baby shower for the 2nd child so close on the heels of the first?!

Certainly they still have newborn stuff in their inventory....?

[KimJongJimBob]

omg. Jill. Get your nasty shoes off of the couch. 

[nst]

Jill and Jessa have a party listening to their babies heartbeats 

Jessa felt kicks at 15 weeks 

[SadieJane]

I swear if this entire episode is nothing but here listening to a baby heartbeat i am turning it off...

[bella8050]

Ready with my wine to watch Jill play midwife, and then inevitably cry when little Henry is born.  

[nst]

2 minutes ago, bella8050 said:

Ready with my wine to watch Jill play midwife, and then inevitably cry when little Henry is born.  

this is literally what they do - have these parties 

flashbacks to Jessa's wedding 

and that is what happens Jessa when you don't practice birth control you get babies

[SadieJane]

Can we make this the duggars and wine night.... I cant do the drinking games, but I can do the wine. 

[bella8050]

Just now, SadieJane said:

Can we make this the duggars and wine night.... I cant do the drinking games, but I can do the wine. 

Monday is usually my wine and Bachelore/ette night snarking on Twitter. Switching it up this season. Either way Mondays should always be wine nights!

[nst]

we get the awkward flashback scene of Jessa and Jill pretending to like each other in the kitchen 

Ben needs a nap 

[SadieJane]

It might take me a bottle to get thru this episode tonight.... also, do you think if i mailed a packet of ponytail holders and a note that says "for the kitchen" they'll take the hint?

 

[KimJongJimBob]

Has Austin always had that Herman Munster forehead thing going on? I feel like I would have noticed that before...

[Carm_88]

I found Jessa's face when Jill said that she had felt kicks at 12 weeks to be amusing. It was kinda like "Of course you felt kicks Jill!"