Jinjer: Shopping in Bookstores

[benye]

I do find it weird there's no term for an older man, but I also thought about it and I can think of many instances where a show had (usually) teenage boys gawking at an older woman. But there's also The Crush with Alicia Silverstone where she fawns over the much older man, she's 14 in that movie to his 28.

[catlady]

i'm 5'8" with disproportionately long legs and i was tall as a preteen, so i've always dealt with pants being noticeably too short.  this is one of several reasons why i prefer skirts and dresses; if a skirt is an inch too short, it's usually ok; too-short pants just look bad.  

[melon]

There are terms for older men. "Sugar Daddy" is one.I had a friend at work,and she dated a much older man.She even admitted she preferred money to sex.So I guess she was a "gold digger"?They did not last.They were together,on and off for years.She supposedly left her husband for him.

[benye]

There are terms for older men. "Sugar Daddy" is one.I had a friend at work,and she dated a much older man.She even admitted she preferred money to sex.So I guess she was a "gold digger"?They did not last.They were together,on and off for years.She supposedly left her husband for him.

That's a good point, but I feel like "having a sugar daddy" puts a lot to negative to the woman just as much as the man because of the assumptions that it can bring. Meanwhile, cougar does not show offense to the man.

[melon]

Yes, that's true.

 

[SorenaJ]

I'm 4'11" and I would much rather date a short guy or girl, and find short guys extremely attractive. I love their heights. And it's such a pleasure walking next to them. I wouldn't reject anyone because they were tall, but I would prefer a short partner. 

[Four is Enough]

Every now and again, as a 30 something year old woman, I'd spy a handsome young (18 ish) man and think, "I'd like to be the older woman in his life!" and then I'd remember when I WAS the older woman (by about five years and he was over 21) to a younger man.

NEVER. EVER. AGAIN. Waay too much work, and I thought they had at least SOME instinctive ideas about how things worked... not this guy..

[nausicaa]

3 hours ago, breakfree said:

I actually think women taller than 5'7" or 5'8" have it harder at least in the USA- the average man is only 5'8" or 5'9" still and most of them don't want to date someone who's taller than them and guys dating women taller than them can expect to have a hard time from other guys. My own husband who is a raging feminist in most ways doesn't like me to wear heels since they make me 'taller' than him; his brother flat out said once he wouldn't date a woman who was taller. I also of course have female friends who want to date someone taller than them even if they're tall. If they're taller than 5'7" this does limit options somewhat, especially considering that some percentage of men also wont consider dating them due to their height.

As a woman who is just under 6' and dating, I can wholeheartedly attest to all of this. 

I understand short women have different struggles in terms of clothing, getting respect in the workplace, et cetera, but in dating in the United States, they most definitely have the upper hand and much more flexibility in who they can date, and who will date them. 

Unpopular opinion---but if I ever had a daughter and it looked like she would be very tall (my height or taller), I would seriously consider medical intervention before puberty to limit her adult height. I try not to dwell on it, but I do think my height has really limited my opportunities in life. 

[Diggingupdirt]

2 hours ago, louisa05 said:

Yet when the age gap is the more usual man is older, no one flinches

That is not always true. My husband is 13 years older than I am, I put up with a lot of negative reactions due to our age gap. I was 28 when we met and we had an instant connection. People I thought were my friends said some pretty terrible things to me. They called me a gold digger (Which is so funny to me because not that it matters but I make more money then he does). We are together because we share many common interests, we make each other happy, and we love one another. We never really talk about our age difference as it doesn't bother us. It seems to bother other people more. I think you limit yourself if you have issues with things like age, height, and weight. You could be missing out if you let things like that get in your way. 

[louisa05]

25 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Every now and again, as a 30 something year old woman, I'd spy a handsome young (18 ish) man and think, "I'd like to be the older woman in his life!" and then I'd remember when I WAS the older woman (by about five years and he was over 21) to a younger man.

NEVER. EVER. AGAIN. Waay too much work, and I thought they had at least SOME instinctive ideas about how things worked... not this guy..

Well, I think that is going to depend on the guy and the ages you are both at when you begin dating. There can be a bigger difference between 28 and 22 than between 38 and 32. That is the life stages thing that I read about being a road block in relationships when it comes to age differences. 

@Diggingupdirt I'm sorry that your experience has been people disapproving or commenting on your age difference. But I do think that there is a tendency for people to view a woman older age difference more negatively than the opposite. I have seen and heard lot of negative comments about Emmanuel Macron's wife being 24 years older than him and people immediately saying "that's different" when it is pointed out that it is the same age difference between Trump and Melania. Macron's marriage is shocking while Trump's is considered relatively normal. 

In my experience, this is something that is part of patriarchy. The "who wears the pants" comment that we hear is definitely rooted in patriarchy and is a comment I'm assuming you have never heard. My friend who was raised evangelical had the very negative reaction when we got engaged and asked me how would Mr. 05 "be able to lead" since I am older. There is an idea from patriarchy that men have to be the superior in the relationship and the notion that the woman should be younger is likely an extension of that. And it is ingrained enough that many people who are thoroughly egalitarian still have that idea in their subconscious enough to react. 

(And I was surprised that the Duggars approved of Jessa with Ben since he is a bit younger than her). 

[Diggingupdirt]

@louisa05 You are correct no one has ever said "who wears the pants" or leads in our relationship. I'm sorry your friend asked you that, to me that is a disgusting question. I was raised Lutheran and at least in the Missouri Synod, the teachings are the man is the head of the house. But, my parents raised me to believe that a marriage was a partnership, and that my dad's opinion did not trump my mom's just because he had a penis. They always talked it out and made decisions together. They both showed me how to have a loving relationship where no one was in charge. To me they are an example on how to have a wonderful relationship and share the pants. 

[Jana814]

When I hear about large age differences between spouses I think of the singer Celine Dion and her now late husband.  

[VelociRapture]

I don't see anything really shocking or odd about the Macron marriage. I do get a little uncomfortable that he was only 15 when he developed a romantic interest in her and his parents apparently had to send him away because of it... but that could just be because I'm a New Englander. And I don't know the whole story either, so it could be more innocent than I'm thinking. 

That said, the Macrons are a beautiful couple. They seem happy and very loving, which is nice to see now that we've traded the Obamas (a couple that defines relationship goals) for the Trumps (who act like they can't stand one another.)

[SapphireSlytherin]

2 hours ago, nausicaa said:

As a woman who is just under 6' and dating, I can wholeheartedly attest to all of this. 

I understand short women have different struggles in terms of clothing, getting respect in the workplace, et cetera, but in dating in the United States, they most definitely have the upper hand and much more flexibility in who they can date, and who will date them. 

Unpopular opinion---but if I ever had a daughter and it looked like she would be very tall (my height or taller), I would seriously consider medical intervention before puberty to limit her adult height. I try not to dwell on it, but I do think my height has really limited my opportunities in life. 

My mom was 6' (my dad is 5'10"). She hated being tall. Her family GLOATED about her height. Her life was hell because of it.

These same family members constantly told me, from my earliest memories of them, that "You're gonna be taller than your Momma! That's going to be VERY tall! HAHAHAHA"

By some trick of nature, I stopped at 5'7", but I still feel like a fucking giant. I slouched and slumped my way through high school because I was so self-conscious about my height. I've even explored the potential of having two or three inches of bone removed from my femurs to make me shorter. My ideal height would be 5'4".

I applaud you for your willingness to intervene on any future daughter's behalf. But know that every single height calculation formula indicated that I'd top out at 6'2".

[just_ordinary]

The problem was that she was Macron's teacher or teacher at his school! And of course that he was underage. IIRC in most European countries an underage (u18) can't lawfully have a sexual relationship with someone over 18(?).

[melon]

Okay,I have to share this funny story.My brother in law and sister in law from Idaho,came to visit.My SIL was talking about her grandson.She says,He's got a cougar!" My other BIL's g/f said Where do you keep it?Fenced in ..in the backyard???LOL....he was 16,his g/f at the time,was 20.

My grandmother and my cousin were very opinionated.I dated a guy briefly,I wasn't even a year older,and in my cousins old neighborhood ,the was a guy,that we had a mutual attraction...to both of those my grandmother...says"You don't want to go out with anyone YOUNGER than you".It was ironic because her mother was older than her father,as was mine.My cousin said something too about my parents age difference......2 and a half years..I never saw what the big deal was.

 

[NakedKnees]

I'm woman in a relationship with a man 14 years older, and I definitely think those with the genders reversed have it worse and that it's very much rooted in patriarchy. 

Whatever happened to the term "cradle robber?" It's pretty bad, but not as gendered as the others. I never seem to hear that anymore.

Jinger and Jeremy have about a four or five year gap, right? I remember being surprised to find out that Jessa was marrying someone younger. I thought that the subject of age and authority was pretty explicitly tackled in Gothardism/IBLP.

[Kak]

On 4 June 2017 at 1:15 AM, Bad Wolf said:

My former Latin teacher (recently deceased) wrote the Inspector Morse series. I discovered them in the library long before the TV series. I was delighted to find some words I didn't know, and had to go to the dictionary. I'm not getting into the dictionary debate, just saying what I enjoyed.

That's amazing. Fantastic books, such good writing. It was so sad when Morse died, then John Thaw, then Colin Dexter. Did you like him?

[season of life]

Wasn't Emmanuel Macron's wife his teacher? I find that incredibly skeevy. Underage is underage.

[Kelsey]

1 hour ago, SapphireSlytherin said:

 

I applaud you for your willingness to intervene on any future daughter's behalf. But know that every single height calculation formula indicated that I'd top out at 6'2".

Those calculations said that I'd be 5'8". I am just a touch over 5'1" My other half is over 6'

[FleeJanaFree]

16 hours ago, neurogirl said:

@FleeJanaFree Even if you don't have a child of your own, I think you should find a child you care about to share your book collection with. You seem like you would be a wonderful fairy reading mother.

Well that was a kind surprise to read while scrolling through the forum! I very much hope to have kids someday but I can't seem to get a third date for the life of me!  you have inspired me to add a Testaments of Wills of sort to my boxes..."if I die, please give to (___local____) women's shelter".  I would be so sad if no child and parent never gets to enjoy these books again, and I've been working hard time complete some of the collections. Do you have any idea how many Boxcar Children books there are?!

 

by the way if any of you are divorced with young kids, I totally recommend The Amber Browns series. I was sorting through my books last night and couldn't help rereading one...such age appropriate books about the emotions of divorce without being preachy or in your face.

[VelociRapture]

@NakedKneesSix year gap for JinJer. He was 29 when they married and she turned 23 almost 2 months after.

@nausicaaJust remember that genetics are kind of crazy and there's no guarantee that your potential future daughter will be tall. But at the end of the day, you (and her possible father/other parent) will need to do what you feel is best. Just be sure to get sound medical advice and to take potential daughter's thoughts about it into account.

[elliha]

1 hour ago, just_ordinary said:

The problem was that she was Macron's teacher or teacher at his school! And of course that he was underage. IIRC in most European countries an underage (u18) can't lawfully have a sexual relationship with someone over 18(?).

No that is not true, most European countries have age of consent around 15-16 but it might be illegal if a person is in a position of authority and the person is under 18. A regular person over the age of 18 having sex with someone over the age of consent is normally not a crime. I do not know the details of French law or the situation at the time he was young but it is not true in general. 

[nausicaa]

1 minute ago, VelociRapture said:

 

@nausicaaJust remember that genetics are kind of crazy and there's no guarantee that your potential future daughter will be tall. But at the end of the day, you (and her possible father/other parent) will need to do what you feel is best. Just be sure to get sound medical advice and to take potential daughter's thoughts about it into account.

It's unlikely I'll ever have kids, so this is all theoretical. I can see deciding against it, because from what I understand there can be lots of negative side effects to the current treatments. But if a treatment were to develop that didn't have as many ill effects and my daughter were already towering over kids in kindergarten, I would probably go for it, especially if she were shy. I really think it can be a quality of life issue.

 

@SapphireSlytherin Oh  I know, those calculations can be off. I was supposed to be 5'8"... 

[nausicaa]

11 minutes ago, elliha said:

No that is not true, most European countries have age of consent around 15-16 but it might be illegal if a person is in a position of authority and the person is under 18. A regular person over the age of 18 having sex with someone over the age of consent is normally not a crime. I do not know the details of French law or the situation at the time he was young but it is not true in general. 

He was 15 at the time. The age of consent in France is 15. So it was not a crime. 

However, that does not mean it was not ethically dubious. She was his teacher and in a position of authority over him. She was 39 years old. She was married and had two kids. He was a child.  

If they had met ten years later, I would be all about it. But as it stands, I have a lot of problems with what she did, and don't understand why because the genders are reversed, some people celebrate it.