Joy and Austin: The Wedding Is Over, On to the Honeymoon

[trustworthy]

I'm still in the camp that Jeremy and Jinger are the best off ... she's far away with someone who didn't come out of Gothard, and at a different church.  Jeremy seems way more real and open to lots of things than any of the husbands.  Folks may not agree with his dad's theology or his, but there's no evidence he was emotionally abused.  His sister and brother are on a very different path but the family still embraces them.  If one or both of of his siblings gets married, and there was dancing at the wedding, Jeremy wouldn't walk out.  He probably has no issues with dancing any way.  Even though Joy's known Austin for a long time, I'm not sure how "well" she actually knows him as they may never actually have had a private conversation for more than 3 stolen minutes when no one was looking.  But to me the more worrisome part is that they're going to be living -- as was specifically noted -- "between both sets of parents."  That kind of says it all. They're not going to be more than 20 minutes away from small ucky thinking.  Jinger and Jeremy can blast his old college music and he can teach her to boogie if she wants to and they can go see R movies if they feel like it and no one will know.  But Joy and Austin are barely out of the compound. There will be some freedom, and I do think Austin is sweet and truly loves Joy, but her expansion options are limited.

[neurogirl]

Quote

There will be some freedom, and I do think Austin is sweet and truly loves Joy, but her expansion options are limited.

Well...their literal expansion options probably won't be limited...

[SuhrEnity]

1 hour ago, Cheetah said:

So that said, I'm sure that Jill getting pregnant immediately didn't help the situation at all.  Can you imagine never ever being alone with your partner, then within a few days of finally getting to totally focus on each other, she has this new consuming passion of becoming a mother?  If I were Derrick I'd feel cheated, frankly.  (And yeah, it's on him for not insisting on waiting a few months to TTC, but still...).

I think you are very very right about this.

[Lurky]

Since Joy and Austin will be "building their own house", I wonder where they'll live while they're doing it?  I hope they have a place away from both families, at least, because even eg staying in that weird flat in the warehouse-looking building would be the opposite of Jinger's "no family visits for the first 6 months" (which wow, that must have been hard, but so important, for someone from such a pathologically enmeshed family.  I always wonder whose idea it was - Jeremy's?  based on Jessa's experience?  Or Jinger read it somewhere when she waas young, and thought "hell yes"?)

(of course, we'll probably see during Counting On that the first 6 months thing was complete bull...)

[December]

3 hours ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

I feel like the courtship model is misguided, because people change, especially around the age when most courtships start (i.e. 15--25ish?) 

I figure that's by design... I don't think the goal is to find yourself or change like typical young adults. 

1 hour ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

The Joshly Madison scandal was the best thing that ever happened to Boob, it just "proved" to his kids that going out in the wold will destroy you.

Sadly, I agree. The transformation of 19KAC into Counting On also proved that their brand could continue without any significant changes needed (at least for their base). 

[klabourdeth]

What's funny to me is that I've always wanted the same guy and life, but my Hs sweetheart turned out not be him.

We dated 17-23, he was top of the class with me in high school and we ended up going to the same highly ranked college. He was set on the path of becoming an electrical engineer. It's what I wanted in a hubby, introverted intellegent engineer who wanted the childfree life with me.

 

I had to double check to make sure I didn't type this because it so familiar with my story.

 

I was in one of those will they won't they relationship in middle/high school. We both went to a well respected engineering school around the Great Lakes. He went towards the double engineering path and I floated around. While he didn't end up dropping out he still in school working on his PhD with some interesting research in stop lights. We drifted apart and I found myself in different areas around the university.

 

At some point I ended up with a mechanical engineer. In and interesting turn of events my mechanical engineer had very much the same-ish will they won't they story. Interesting element is that those two are in the same department for grad department for grad school. I still got to a point the life I dreamt of in grade school.

 

But when I think about my story & others with relation to the Duggars girls I feel for them. They are pretty much stuck with their first whatever. They don't get the option to change their minds and really experience the options out there.

 

I have a feeling only Jessa & Jinger got to weigh their decision. Jessa with how long of a relationship she & Ben were courting which makes me think they already experienced a couple of changes before the alter. Jinger because it sounds like she got to meet & spend time around Jeremy before courting. Jessa seems the happiest with her her married life for the past two years. I do think the same could be said with Jinger but it might be to early.

 

I also think Joy falls somewhere in between Jessa & Jinger with having gotten to know Austin a bit outside of the courtship model.

 

Yet with Jill, I can't recall her looking happy since a year & half being married. The same with Derrick. They rushed everything about their relationship and I think it shows. They barely in the same place when courting. I think it was a month or less by the time Derrick was state side & before proposing. My take is that he rushed everything because he felt that his mother could die & Jill (but really the Duggar family in general) presented a picture perfect family. Since it appears like his mom won't pass away anytime to soon I think he regretted his decision to be tie down and it showing. I don't think Jill fully understands what happen in their picture prefect relationship either. I think if those two got to have spent at least 6 months living in the same area with no outside influence stress they would have probably learned what they needed to about each other. Although I could be misreading this based on the images we seen & videos but I think in the last 1.5 years I seen maybe one or 2 photos where they looked truly happy with each other.

 

 

 

[divadivine]

2 hours ago, Daisy0322 said:

<snipped>

Joy and Austin seemed to have really rushed things relationship wise but they knew each other a long time previously so it'll be interesting to see what they look like in a year.

Parents... in a year they will look like exhausted parents because you know she will be pregnant in a hot second. 

[RosyDaisy]

Jinger is a fundie preacher's wife and reality tv star (z-list of course). She has status in their little circle. She has an actual role other than wife and brood sow. She is much better off than her sisters.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

If they are in an RV (like some have speculated) camping around the country for their honeymoon, maybe TLC will let them keep it to live in on their land while they build their home? That might be kind of nice, especially if they are 30 minutes from each parents home?  Still close enough to visit often but no so close that people will just "pop over" unannounced.  I live 40 minutes south of my siblings I call before going over and vice versa, no way we are driving that far with out knowing for sure if they are there. 

[Letizia]

5 hours ago, allthegoodnamesrgone said:

He was such a nice guy at first, and we have no idea what caused him to jump of the deep end into asshole land.  Is it Jill's constant whining while in Danger America that sent him over the edge ,or is it his grifting isn't going as well as he hopped, is he NOT enjoying fatherhood like he had hopped?

I wonder if the issues with Izzy's birth and what he knows those issues could mean for the future sent him over the edge. I mean if this next birth goes better than the next I think Jill will be really emboldened in her desire to rapidly popping out babies until her uterus physically can't take it. 

[Dandruff]

4 hours ago, eleanora3 said:

Ugh this is so sad to me because...I really did like him in the beginning

Derick seemed to have potential; e.g., a low-key disposition, college education, and steady job.  Too bad he and Jill didn't get to date.  I suspect he would have been much happier with someone less fearful, more independent, and with a wider range of interests and experiences.  For whatever reason, he hooked up with Jim Bob and was encouraged into the relationship.  Then - stress.  He wasn't allowed debt.  He wasn't allowed birth control.  His mother had cancer.  His wife drove him to and from work, met him for lunch, and who knows how many calls and texts he got from her each day.  Jill's pregnant.  She was molested by her own brother, who Jim Bob tried to protect.  He had to juggle TLC's filming schedule with his job.  Oral surgery.  Pain.  Job loss.  Difficult birth.  Scary Central America.  And a wife who - best as I can tell - had basically learned to cope with prayer, clinginess, and "Where's Daddy?".

I'm not impressed with the guy, and especially hate the grifting, but I do have some sympathy for him.  I really think that if he and Jill had spent a good amount of time together ALONE before committing, he would have made a different decision.

No turning back now.

[viii]

I feel bad for all of these couples. When you're in that situation, you're not given time to get to know one another. You don't even know the person well enough to name their favourite food, let alone spend an entire life time with them. And yet, divorce is not an option, unless you want to be completely shunned from your family. 

[Chickenbutt]

I have seen mentioned that Jill loved a man she never met, but then again Derrick loved a girl he never met.

How did anyone think this was a good idea?

When I saw the episode where Jill asked to fly to Nepal to meet Derrick and JB and Michelle thought that was do-able, I couldn't help but to think what I would have said had one of my kids asked me the same thing.....hell no!...comes to mind.

 

[2manyKidzzz]

Especially since DWreck was coming home in about two months as I recall. I bet TLC saw this would be good for ratings, and really, it must have been expensive as they didn't buy the tickets well in advance. He was coming home soon and normal people would wait for that.

Did I say normal people?

[Lurky]

I do feel a bit for Derick, as Jill said over & over that she had a heart for missions, and wanted to travel, and do everything he was doing.  I can see how him being in Nepal must have seemed so glamourous, and bringing God to the heathens would have seemed like her dream come true....  BUT, as we've all said before, she was so incredibly sheltered and lied to that while she thought she knew what she was getting into, she had no idea - and she's been brought up with no teaching to be emotional resilient, she can't know how to deal with the fact that this life she's dreamed of for so many years isn't for her.

I've said this before here, but I wanted to do archeology when I was 18.  So my dad set me up to go on an archeological dig, through his girlfriend who worked at a university, and wow, I hated it!  And I am so grateful for that!  But my parents had expected me to spread my wings, and work out what I wanted in life, and by getting to have a gap year, and go to university, I could explore 100 sides of me. 

And hell, I had 1000 opportunities to deal with "failure", through school, friendships, boyfriends, voluntary work, extra-curricular activities and so on - all of which made me stronger.

The Duggars are the opposite - they kept their kids sheltered, expected them to only have 1 path, all without giving them any tools to be able to negotiate relationships, or deal with disappointment apart from "pray more" - and with Jill being the golden daughter, she was even more set up to fail than the rest of them.

Of course I hold Derick culpable, for not getting to know her more, and for not thinking critically about whether this incredibly sheltered reality TV kid knew what she was talking about, but I also can't blame him too much for feeling aggrieved that she said & was presented as one thing, and turned out so different.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

32 minutes ago, Chickenbutt said:

When I saw the episode where Jill asked to fly to Nepal to meet Derrick and JB and Michelle thought that was do-able, I couldn't help but to think what I would have said had one of my kids asked me the same thing.....hell no!...comes to mind.

You mean JB & Michelle thought RATINGS! 

[viii]

And the thing is - maybe Jill really did have a heart for missions and want to travel. However, being a parent is hard enough, let alone combine it with third world country situations and everything else. It was probably a brutal wake-up call for her once they had a child, and then you add in a second one?? There's not a lot that can be done though as long as HE'S still enjoying it. It's not his fault that she's unhappy, it's her fault, and she is expected to submit joyfully to her husband's will. 

[mlsgregg]

All this Derick and Jill talk makes me so sad. I'm one that really liked him in the beginning.

I absolutely agree that Jill wasn't given the tools to handle the stress of marriage or the missionary life (I know the amount of work they actually do is pretty debatable). She reminds me of a friend of me; a kind person at heart, but she has zero skills for dealing with problems. It's hard for me to tell if Derick planned to be wishy-washy and grifty and all that, or if it's just sort of happened. (Not that that's an excuse). I think he had a certain expectation of what their life was going to be, as did she, and those expectations don't mesh at all.

I find many of their beliefs abhorrent, but I certainly wouldn't wish a bad marriage on any of the Duggars.

[FleeJanaFree]

4 hours ago, Cheetah said:

So caveat that I haven't watched most of the show episodes for the past 2 years, and I rarely click through to the TLC mini videos, so I'm taking y'all's word for it that Derrick and Jill don't seem very happy.  So that said, I'm sure that Jill getting pregnant immediately didn't help the situation at all.  Can you imagine never ever being alone with your partner, then within a few days of finally getting to totally focus on each other, she has this new consuming passion of becoming a mother?  If I were Derrick I'd feel cheated, frankly.  (And yeah, it's on him for not insisting on waiting a few months to TTC, but still...).  I'm glad that Jinger had a few months at least (and really good for her for separating from the borg for that timeframe, too) and I hope that Joy and Austin either deliberately take a few months or at least don't have quite the luck that Jill did.

I can't feel sorry for him having a kid right away. That tends to happen when you don't take precautions against pregnancy. He happily signed on for that, and being a Headship means he was the one with the real choice.

[DugFan]

I'm sorry if either of these things have been discussed, but I've been out of town and am just catching up.  Two people I didn't see in any wedding photos so far:

1. Carlin Bates.  Aren't they supposed to be "besties"??  She seriously had all of the sisters at the sacrifice of ANY friends?

2. Oh wait... one sister I haven't seen.  Jordyn.  PLEASE tell me Jordyn wasn't left out AGAIN!!!

[CorruptionInc.]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I bet TLC saw this would be good for ratings, and really, it must have been expensive as they didn't buy the tickets well in advance. He was coming home soon and normal people would wait for that.

Mullet and JB would of course think it's a great idea - TLC paying for a holiday, heck yes!

[Greendoor]

On 5/31/2017 at 4:16 PM, SilverBeach said:

I didn't say anything about having a baby making anybody an adult. My DD is over 30 with no children and has been an adult for a long time, don't know where you are coming  from with this remark. It is your judgement that the Duggar women are not "fully"adult, but they are surely adults whether you like it or not. Calling them women means just that, that they are adults, whether fully formed or not. Using your logic, Jana will soon be a thirty year old girl. Nope. It infantalizes them to expect nothing as they age because they had shitty upbringings that they have no apparent problem with.

FJ opposes fundamentalism and everything the Duggars stand for. So to stand by and watch these women continue to pass along all their cult awfulness, while not expecting a damn thing because they are not "fully formed" adults is hypocritical. 

Where I'm from:

13 you are no longer a child

16  you are a young adult

19 you are an adult

 

[mango_fandango]

Apologies if this has been mentioned before, but at least with Joy and Austin they've apparently known each other since Joy was 4/5. Sure they didn't court for long/the engagement was short etc but at least they weren't total strangers.

[Nikedagain?]

41 minutes ago, Greendoor said:

Where I'm from:

13 you are no longer a child

16  you are a young adult

19 you are an adult

WHERE are you from??

[nickelodeon]

I worry about those fundie kids who marry some unknown dude their dad has been e-mailing for three months and then instantly start having his kids. Pregnancy and birth can be stressful even when you're with someone you trust and feel comfortable around 100% - going through it with a near-stranger must be freaky.