27 Dresses - I Mean Duggar Threads (Now, with Duggar women lawsuit discussion!)

[MadeItOut]

Aye, but at least it disrupts your day. ...and there are worse things one could wish on a person.

[marmalade]

This article from the WaPo back in 2015 sheds some light on the real issues in this case: 1) was releasing the police report done within confines of AR state law and 2) were victims properly protected via redaction?

As for #2, WE can identify them because we follow the family and can deduce identifying clues. However, MOST people, press included, wouldn't know Joy from Jana or Jill from Jinger. But 99.9% of society couldn't identify the victims. 

Since Josh was over 18, never prosecuted, etc., the records were never sealed, unfortunately leaving this case wide open for soemething like this to happen. And that all lays at the feet of JB and Mechelle for not reporting the molestations when they happened. 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/acts-of-faith/wp/2015/06/05/heres-why-releasing-josh-duggars-records-was-probably-not-illegal/?utm_term=.1733b7c05f41

[Jess]

It's filed in federal court to high had a larger area then there local county which will make it easier to get an unbiased jury.

Reading the complaint they are not looking so much for lost earning damages as they are mental anguish and punitive so loss of the show isn't going to be that big of an issue. The big amount they are looking for is punitive. 

Mad to audited why would JB the girls may get audited. If it settles out of court they could possible try to write it up as tax free because they are damages for an physical illness or something along those lines to avoid taxes they would need to show they had a real medical illness like having panic attacks and it would need to be very well written and clear that is what they were for. If it goes to trial the jury will most likely make them primarily punitive which will be taxed no matter what. It's possible depending on treatment and diagnosis that some girls could pay tax and others not but the IRS will want to see real proof of treatment if they try to claim its tax free. 

 

[Lyle Lanley]

7 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I wonder how the Duggars' Springdale neighbors are going to feel about this.  The total population is only about 70,000.

Click on any Facebook links or article comments. Mostly pissed and various complaints about the Duggars. A few are supportive of the lawsuit but don't realize it's against the city they live in as well as InTouch.

[sunshine]

I wonder would Jessa's lawsuit put her adoption quest in jeopardy since it will question her mental state due to the abuse and the abuser is still nearby?

[MadeItOut]

Susan Keller Kendall (one of the attorneys listed for springdale), she's presumably no relation? Right?

[SPHASH]

Jill and Jessa gave up their privacy when they went on Megyn Kelly's show.  Fuck them and their lawsuit!

[JenniferJuniper]

4 minutes ago, SPHASH said:

Jill and Jessa gave up their privacy when they went on Megyn Kelly's show.  Fuck them and their lawsuit!

I really question whether they had any say in doing that interview or in going along with the lawsuit.  The lawsuit was JB's idea and he had to convince the headships and the headship to shortly be that it would be a good thing. "Listen, guys, I'm not going to support you forever and the show's ratings aren't great.  I get a 60% cut and you divide the rest."   I'm sure at least three of the boys were easy to convince.  I do wonder about Jeremy, particularly considering hat Jinger seems the most emotionally fragile.

[FlamingFundie]

I totally agree that Puppetmaster JB is behind everything. Yes, legally the four Duggar victims are technically adults, but anyone with half a brain can see they're still under his thumb and have likely not been given the skills to choose such things for themselves. "Daddy has our best interests at heart" and all that bull honkey. Hell, they likely weren't even given the professional help to deal with any of this!

[Curious]

Jury trials can be pretty dicey for big $$ awards, apparently.  We were considering several of the facilities I was in over the last couple years due to the negligent care/injuries I received.  We had an expert to testify that the facilities were negligent. 

We were warned that it would likely go to a jury trial because health care facilities don't like to settle.  We were told that juries are almost impossible to predict, but that much of the time unless there was permanent damage (like death or a change in status from able-bodied to paraplegic) people don't really give a fuck what happened to you and why should you get a big payday out of something that they don't get money out of. 

Personally, I think that's a pretty shitty attitude for people to have.  We were told the same thing by lawyers and lay people that had been through the court system.

In the end, we didn't file suit because I was home for 5 weeks between facilities and rather than them arguing with each other who was the most negligent, they would both try to say (despite documentation to the contrary) that everything happened during that 5 week period I was at home. 

 

[onekidanddone]

22 minutes ago, JenniferJuniper said:

I really question whether they had any say in doing that interview or in going along with the lawsuit.  The lawsuit was JB's idea and he had to convince the headships and the headship to shortly be that it would be a good thing. "Listen, guys, I'm not going to support you forever and the show's ratings aren't great.  I get a 60% cut and you divide the rest."   I'm sure at least three of the boys were easy to convince.  I do wonder about Jeremy, particularly considering hat Jinger seems the most emotionally fragile.

I always saw Jill as extremely fragile.  The whole shower rack melt down and all.

59 minutes ago, sunshine said:

I wonder would Jessa's lawsuit put her adoption quest in jeopardy since it will question her mental state due to the abuse and the abuser is still nearby?

I've not been keeping up with her on social media. She still talks about adoption?  I didn't think agencies would let a couple adopt if they had a a baby in the home. If she is anything she is like her mom she will be pregnant every 1 to 1 1/2 years. At that rate she and Bin will never adopt.

[marmalade]

A friend of mine was looking for other Duggar lawsuit-related stuff and came up with this article. Sherri may have posted on Pickles(this past March), but her wall is open (not smart), and people posting to her wall pretty much confirm the details that she wrote in the post on Pickles (gay son, hates what the Duggars, especially Smuggar) stand for. For those who don't want to click, this woman claims she was the whistleblower who tipped off InTouch. 

http://www.mommypage.com/2017/03/whistleblower-in-josh-duggar-sex-scandal-speaks-out-for-the-first-time-in-nearly-two-years/

[Lyle Lanley]

5 minutes ago, marmalade said:

A friend of mine was looking for other Duggar lawsuit-related stuff and came up with this article. Sherri may have posted on Pickles(this past March), but her wall is open (not smart), and people posting to her wall pretty much confirm the details that she wrote in the post on Pickles (gay son, hates what the Duggars, especially Smuggar) stand for. For those who don't want to click, this woman claims she was the whistleblower who tipped off InTouch. 

http://www.mommypage.com/2017/03/whistleblower-in-josh-duggar-sex-scandal-speaks-out-for-the-first-time-in-nearly-two-years/

If you dig even deeper it just so happens that it was Sherri's sister and her now-wife in the infamous kissing picture in front of the Duggar compound. They really do not like the Duggars, do they?

[marmalade]

Woah! No wonder she railed against Smuggar and the FRC. Lesbian sister AND a gay son! I fight for my brother, so I know how she feels when the FRC (or any other anti-LGBT entity) starts spewing their hate. 

[Lyle Lanley]

13 minutes ago, marmalade said:

Woah! No wonder she railed against Smuggar and the FRC. Lesbian sister AND a gay son! I fight for my brother, so I know how she feels when the FRC (or any other anti-LGBT entity) starts spewing their hate. 

Yup. It's right here with their identities.

https://www.thehollywoodgossip.com/2015/01/michelle-duggar-slammed-by-lgbt-activist-and-former-friend-she-h/

Apparently Sherri and Michelle were high school classmates.

Sherri's sister Tandra was actually contacted by InTouch in the first place after the kissing picture went viral if WaPo is to be believed.

https://www.washingtonpost.com/lifestyle/style/to-get-the-josh-duggar-story-intouch-utilized-solid-investigative-journalism/2015/06/07/f4dabc4a-0bbe-11e5-95fd-d580f1c5d44e_story.html?utm_term=.c7712c8d4b5a

[marmalade]

I was wondering how Sherri thought to contact that particular tabloid. It all makes a lot more sense now; they already had a contact. 

[Lyle Lanley]

It sounds like InTouch did a lot of legal leg work if WaPo is to be believed. David Perrel was the editor for InTouch at the time and he was an editor-in-charge at the National Enquirer during the OJ Simpson trial. I imagine he knew exactly how to cross his Ts and dot his Is from the time at the National Enquirer.

[HarleyQuinn]

Could the judge agree to look into laws to protect minors more and NOT pay the Duggars any money? Is that an option?

Come on, degreed law professionals™

[marmalade]

1 minute ago, HarleyQuinn said:

Could the judge agree to look into laws to protect minors more and NOT pay the Duggars any money? Is that an option?

Come on, degreed law professionals™

Yes, it's an option as long as InTouch got their FOIA request in before they changed the law to protect minors more on 5/2/15. We know it took two weeks for Springdale to redact the report, which was finally released on 5/21, but they HAD the report by the 19th when they broke the news. It takes a while for wheels to spin, so it's very possible that the request came in before the new law was passed. 

This case all breaks down to the timing of the request and the passage of that law. 

[CyborgKin]

3 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

@ShadoewolfThey pulled reruns after the molestation scandal. Show was cancelled mid-July. Josh's cheating was revealed mid-August.

So its likely scandal one is what did the show in.

That still leaves the question of whether the victims' identities affected the cancellation.  Likely the fact of Josh being the perpetrator would have been enough on its own to do the show in.

[FeministShrew]

@Curious we were told the same thing when my sister wanted to sue the first nursing home our mom was in after her stroke. They were definitely negligent. The administrator & head nurse admitted to us that they expected her to die, so they didn't do the physical and speech therapy they were supposed to, though they still charged her insurance & Medicare for it. They let her get dehydrated, and one of the nurses gave her someone else's medication. We later found out that the nurse had been convicted of stealing medication for her own use at a local hospital, had just got her license back, and was not supposed to be administration only, not near patients or handling medications. Mama was in the hospital 5-6 times in the 6 months she was there, mostly with severe UTIs and reactions to pain medications she was not supposed to have.

Three different lawyers agreed the nursing home was negligent, but they all said that, unless the patient died, there was no possibility of winning a lawsuit. 
We did file complaints with DHEC & LLR (Licensing & Review) and the administrator, head nurse, & druggie nurse were removed. That's when we found out that the company just moved staff around from facility to facility, like the Catholic church did with pedophile priests.

[moriah]

2 hours ago, Lyle Lanley said:

If you dig even deeper it just so happens that it was Sherri's sister and her now-wife in the infamous kissing picture in front of the Duggar compound. They really do not like the Duggars, do they?

Interesting!

I haven't said anything yet on this thread, so if I cover points already made, I apologize, but this is my initial impression.

The abuse was occurring 2002-2003, and the first documentary was formed while OfJB was preggo with Jackson, but not excessively so, so likely late 2003/early 2004.  Were they already in negotiations to do the documentaries when they found out the March 2003 revelations?  We know Holt was planning to run against Blanche Lincoln in 2004 and both Jim Bob and Holt had made the name and positions in their "church" part of their political platform.

We also have pretty conclusive evidence that Holt, as the "elder" who was chaplain at Piney Ridge, was a mandated reporter and was the elder mentioned in the police report.  IIRC he claimed to be with JB and Smuggar when they talked to the child porn cop, but that's not following mandated reporting responsibilities.

I don't know if these five children, including Josh, were peddled on TV instead of taken to therapy to get a TV network to get them a house, to win a Senate seat, or to push Gothardism (they heavily promoted ATI in the original set of documentaries, showing a yearly meeting, etc)... or all of the above.... but they were.  

If Holt had reported as he was required, the record wouldn't have existed in 2015 to FOIA, as it would have been connected with a juvenile criminal case instead of a FINS referral.  And if the news and lawsuits are going to use our sleuthing to determine victim reveal, then "concernedmom"'s post in 2005 eliminates Jim Holt as "off-limits" for discussion (I re-read the post on archive org today, and it's pretty clear she's suggesting the non-family victim wasn't one of the Holt daughters).  Few pursued Holt's part in the original coverup because of Smuggar's bethrothal and worries the outside victim may have been in his household.

So InTouch actually has a failure to mitigate damages defense, I think, if not a joinder of Holt, Jim Bob or Michelle themselves.  Certainly they could subpoena Holt to determine why the correct action, making a report immediately when he was notified, was not done.  He's beyond SOL for failing to report abuse, and pastoral privilege doesn't count because Jim Bob told Holt and the other "elders", not Josh himself.  

One thing that I think is motivating this lawsuit for the girls is not just the normal response to being outed as a survivor of incestuous sexual abuse -- but ATI's teaching that the consequences to reputation of both the family and the "cause of Christ are *so* important when they talk about sexual abuse or other "moral failings" -- "The parents were shocked and grieved as social workers visited their home and confirmed reports that an older brother was guilty of sexually abusing younger ones in his family. The damage to the younger children, the ridicule to the cause of Christ, the shame of detailed publicity, and the scars to the life and reputation of the boy were indescribably painful to the family and their friends.” 

The girls can't be mad at Josh -- they have to forgive him or they're sinners.  They can't be mad at their authority figures for not getting them help and then putting them on TV to make money and save souls -- that'd be rebelling against authorities.  Because Josh had repented in the Church, they probably don't even think he should have been subjected to the legal authorities and tremble before them for his evil behavior, if they buy ATI's teachings (and what choice do they have)?  But they are allowed and encouraged to be mad at the meddling police and liberal media, who damaged the all-important reputation of the family.

[luv2laugh]

36 minutes ago, FeministShrew said:

@Curious we were told the same thing when my sister wanted to sue the first nursing home our mom was in after her stroke. They were definitely negligent. The administrator & head nurse admitted to us that they expected her to die, so they didn't do the physical and speech therapy they were supposed to, though they still charged her insurance & Medicare for it. They let her get dehydrated, and one of the nurses gave her someone else's medication. We later found out that the nurse had been convicted of stealing medication for her own use at a local hospital...

I am SO sorry. How horrific! I can't believe this goes on!

[luv2laugh]

This Inquisitr article is reporting in detail how Ben Seewald and Jessa lost exclusive episodes on Jessa's pregnancy and Ben's graduation day after the cancellation--- this is a likely motivator behind the punitive damages they are seeking since the show was cancelled in July before the August Ashley Madison scandal hacking came out.

How come I am not surprised vain Jessa and grifting Jill are going for the $$$??! They're both mini Jim Bobs.

It was Jessa and Jill who outed themselves publicly on Megyn Kelly, after all.  I have a feeling they (and JB) dragged/forced the much quieter, pants clad Jinger and bride to be Joy to do this.

JB better watch out because if this is the case (and they lose the settlement lawsuit) I'd bet money that BinJessa & Grifting DerJill will sue JB in a couple of years... Unless, of course, JB smells it coming and gifts them McMansions over the other kidults.

Mark my words this lawsuit is NOT Jinjer nor Joy's idea-- it's JB and the "mini JBs" AKA Vain Jessa/Ben and Grifting Greedy DerJill.

https://www.google.com/amp/www.inquisitr.com/4234503/revealed-how-josh-duggar-molestation-scandal-hit-ben-seewalds-big-day/amp/

 

[moriah]

Btw, no, it's unlikely InTouch would attempt to joinder Jim Bob and Michelle, let alone Holt, as defendants.  But it's permissible under Arkansas law to try, and a perfect place would be the "tort of outrage" claim.

Jury Instructions for Tort of Outrage

What was further outside the bounds of decency -- InTouch's reporting that exposed a con artist cult leader's followers covered up sexual abuse for either financial or political gain, or covering up the abuse? Since it was a proximate cause of the damages to the defendants.... had Holt followed the law as a mandated reporter, and they cooperated  because Josh would have been a juvenile at the time of the report being made it would have automatically been expunged by 2015.  Thus no document for InTouch to obtain.