27 Dresses - I Mean Duggar Threads (Now, with Duggar women lawsuit discussion!)

[nastyhobbitses]

4 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

My last thought was a jury trial??! Are they nuts?? (Ok stupid question but still) A good attorney for the defense is going to annihilate the Duggar girls, especially Jill. They can't hide behind JB&M or their husbands. What else could come out....we talk about how incredible it would be for the Duggar beliefs to be blown wide open but holy crap the possible damage to the girl's emotional state. Not that they didn't bring this on themselves by filing the lawsuit but whoa the implications are huge

This clinches my suspicion that this lawsuit is yet another money grab by JB. If he gave a shred of a shit about his daughters' well-being -- if ANYONE gave a shit about their well-being (themselves included, which is sad as fuck), they'd say "wait, maybe we shouldn't have four young adult women who have been abused in myriad ways their entire lives be cross-examined in public by a lawyer whose job it is to prove why it was OK for the entire world to know about the sexual abuse they suffered as children".

I think that Josh's crimes should have been made public, I think that people need to know that Jim Bob and Michelle are abusive assholes and preach a twisted, abusive version of Christianity, I think that the Megyn Kelly interview was a total farce, but I also think that continuously making these girls publicly answer for their abusive experiences is wrong. A simple "we are the ones who have to deal with the emotional fallout of this chain of events; we will move on with our lives in private" would be understandable and probably better for their emotional health.

[Fjrocks]

8 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

If the law is interpreted correctly, their statute of limitations to file is tomorrow/Monday. There's the motive to the "why now?".

    If that is the case it makes me shudder anew why Joy is marrying so young and so quickly.   Jim Bob saw a $$$ opportunity  and rushed Joy so her purity would be a non-issue when filing the suit. 

     A coincidence the timing just worked out?!   Not likely. 

    That is really sick, Jimbo. Really sick. 

[Gillyweed]

1 hour ago, nastyhobbitses said:

if ANYONE gave a shit about their well-being (themselves included, which is sad as fuck), they'd say "wait, maybe we shouldn't have four young adult women who have been abused in myriad ways their entire lives be cross-examined in public by a lawyer whose job it is to prove why it was OK for the entire world to know about the sexual abuse they suffered as children".

This just got me thinking. If it does go to trial, and the lawyers prove that everything was legal, possibly because JB did not handle this situation correctly, maybe it'll help one of the girls realize their father isn't always right?

[HurricaneBells]

21 hours ago, luv2laugh said:

Holy shit look at this!! Anchors are fighting to interview the 4 girls and they're looking for 10-15 million settlement $$$$!!!!

They want a Gawker takedown a la Hulk Hogan settlement style!

One of Pickles followers quoted that third statement and Pickles said "who is the source and what is page six"? LOL! C'mon I am Australian and even i knew what page six was! Poor Pickles, she isnt having the best weekend is she ahahaha

[Cleopatra7]

12 minutes ago, Gillyweed said:

This just got me thinking. If it does go to trial, and the lawyers prove that everything was legal, possibly because JB did not handle this situation correctly, maybe it'll help one of the girls realize their father isn't always right?

She'd probably be packed off to the "ladies" version of JTTH for further reprogramming.

[lizzybee]

6 hours ago, Shadoewolf said:

My last thought was a jury trial??! Are they nuts?? (Ok stupid question but still) A good attorney for the defense is going to annihilate the Duggar girls, especially Jill. They can't hide behind JB&M or their husbands. What else could come out....we talk about how incredible it would be for the Duggar beliefs to be blown wide open but holy crap the possible damage to the girl's emotional state. Not that they didn't bring this on themselves by filing the lawsuit but whoa the implications are huge.

Right you are. I've testified against someone in court, defense lawyers aren't Megyn Kelly. They'll eat those girls for breakfast. A lawyer will dig deeper into your personal life, your actions, your practices, your family, etc. and flip them inside out to make them sound or look like something else was going on/motives were different than they were. I spent months second guessing my actions and behaviors after that day in court thinking about how they might be misrepresented by a lawyer. Those girls might be biting off more than they can chew there. 

[Bad Wolf]

Jinger did an interview with Ben, saying she felt unworthy as a child. Doesn't seem like the "therapy" they got was too effective.

Will the law suit help or hurt these women? Will it empower or make them feel even more victimized? I wish they'd got some good counseling before they started this.

[ShepherdontheRock]

31 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

Jinger did an interview with Ben, saying she felt unworthy as a child. Doesn't seem like the "therapy" they got was too effective.

Will the law suit help or hurt these women? Will it empower or make them feel even more victimized? I wish they'd got some good counseling before they started this.

To be fair, fundie-gelical children, regardless of whether or not they were sexually abused feel this way. So probably the "therapy" did its job, unfortunately. This is normal for victims of spiritual abuse.

Honestly, I don't think this lawsuit will have the effect they wanted. If the lawyers for InTouch have their way, there will be depositions, subpoenas, etc, which will violate the girls' privacy even more.  

2 hours ago, Gillyweed said:

This just got me thinking. If it does go to trial, and the lawyers prove that everything was legal, possibly because JB did not handle this situation correctly, maybe it'll help one of the girls realize their father isn't always right?

I think that's wishful thinking. I think it's more likely they'll double down, as always. 

[VelociRapture]

I'm hoping for two things:

1. That any cross examination is done gently, respectfully, and with the fact that they ARE victims (in many ways) kept firmly in mind. I don't care who you are. If you are a victim then I simply don't want to see an angry or aggressive lawyer cross examine you. I hope they manage to get the facts of course, but not in a way that traumatizes these women further.

2. I really hope the proceedings remain closed to the public and media. We know enough as it is. I feel sick every time I think about what we already know. Enough is enough. Don't victimize them further by releasing sordid details.

I've been thinking a lot since this news broke. I think part of the initial reaction here was due to the fact that this wasn't expected. At least it was for me. That said, I hope that the truth, whatever it is, is found during the preparation for and during the trial (if there is one.)

If it turns out that there was nothing illegal done, then I hope  the city and magazine are fully exonerated. If this sparks a movement for clarifying Arkansas' FOIA laws then I hope they do so in a way that doesn't impact Government accountability. And, if it turns out that there was something illegal about the release... then I hope the sisters win and that they  promptly donate any winnings (not used for counseling) to a legitimate charity helping victimized children.

(Yeah... not likely to happen. But still.)

[Hmmm_idolatry]

If this goes to trial, does that mean that JB and Michelle will have to take the stand?  

If so, I'd pay a whole lot of money to be in that court room on cross examination by the LA based lawyers that represent InTouch.  I know what I'd say to them on cross examination.  It would be very, very ugly, and very, very gratifying. 

[Carm_88]

I don't want this to go to trial, it will only hurt the girls. They are the victims here, if it could be a massive cross examination where JB and Michelle are told that they are shitty parents, then I would be all for that. 

[sawasdee]

The main thing going through my mind reading this thread is that I WISH there were mandatory counselling for victims of abuse, paid by the state - especially if those victims are minors.

These poor women have never had the opportunity to examine their own feelings about what happened to them. They have been told how to feel - as children, yet! - and then forced to be the family apologists on Megyn Kelly. And I agree with many posters here, I don't think this suit is their idea.

I don't know enough about US law to know whether their suit has merit or not - but I do know that they are going to endure even more mental anguish because of it.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

3 hours ago, Fjrocks said:

 If that is the case it makes me shudder anew why Joy is marrying so young and so quickly.   Jim Bob saw a $$$ opportunity  and rushed Joy so her purity would be a non-issue when filing the suit. 

This further affirms my theory on marrying off "damaged" goods, and this is why Jana is still at home, she's the anointed one and will fetch the highest price. It makes me wonder what he is expecting mate wise for her, and how he will deal with the lost girls as they are still "pure" as well.  Every real look we get at this family shows just how truly disgusting they are. And the fact that JB really thinks he's entitled to this, and that HE is the victim in this, not, the girls, he is. 

I can't even imagine what a big big lawyer could do to these people. They would have to tread lightly because if by some miracle they do get a jury trial, it will be in NWA and it will their home turf and they won't be impressed by some big city liberal snobs making sweet little Christian girls cry.  But I do wonder if there are enough people in the area who would love to see Boob squirm and made to look a fool? But honestly I don't see this going far after Jill & Jessa went all boo hooy on Fox and down played what happened as "no big deal" and everything JB & M did to cover it up while whoring out their family any judge w/ 2 brain cells will toss this out as frivolous. 

[Jess]

Cross examination of the girls won't be as harsh as people are imagining. A crying/distraught sexual assault victim on th stand in this case is a nightmare for defense attorneys. Juries are real people with real emotions the worse they feel for the girls the more likely they will give higher damages. 

Now the parents would likely be called to testify and be harshly examined the defense attorneys will want to make them out as the real villains. They will likely be able to get into quit a bit with them because the issue will be how much they suffered from  "mental anguish" etc and how much of that suffering was caused by the in touch revelation and how much was caused by the underlying assault. I can think of some real nasty lines of questing and so can th in touch lawyers.

[Hmmm_idolatry]

14 minutes ago, Jess said:

 

Now the parents would likely be called to testify and be harshly examined the defense attorneys will want to make them out as the real villains. 

Oh, I hope so.  IMO, JB and Michelle are the real villains here; Josh too.  I'd love to see someone call them out repeatedly on their sick beliefs and inappropriate handling of these crimes.  They're no better than the Catholic church officials who simply shuffled priests around to other parishes during the early years of the molestation scandal.  Actually, they might be worse than those officials-they did this to their OWN children.  I can't even begin to comprehend how sick and evil someone has to be in order to treat those kids the way they have. 

[Henk12]

I have so many questions about the Duggars and their lives. How is their relationship with Josh now? We know they still see them because he's at their weddings, ect. What is it like for them to interact with him? One minute Jessa and Jill were defending him and their parents, claiming it was just "mild inappropriate touching" and saying they've forgiven him, the next they're doing this. This makes me think those wounds are still there and they haven't healed and forgiven as much as they say. It must be so painful for them to have to deal with him or lose contact with their nieces and nephews, parents and siblings. Part of me thinks they are adults and could absolutely cut contact and get away from all of it. The other part realizes how deep the brainwashing they've been though must run.

 I feel sorry for them because they are basically 14 year old girls. They've been abused, brain washed and manipulated so much that I wonder if they really understand some of the stuff that goes on in their lives. I am not sure if JB has put them up to this, or if they came together and decided to do it on their own, but I do know that they wouldn't be doing this if JB didn't approve. That makes me all kinds of suspicious. 

[JenniferJuniper]

The statute of limitations for personal injury cases in Arkansas is three years, not two. 

My own guess is that JB is still mad as hell over losing his show but wanted to make sure each victim was married off before he took action.  Didn't want to scare off any fundie suitors with this sordid stuff.  As others have pointed out, his financial responsibilities are enormous, and even when he marries someone off they are still on the teat. With more and more mouths to feed every year.  Once the current show is cancelled, yikes.  Couldn't have happened to a nicer asshole.

There may be some tort immunity for any municipal officials and employees.  (for anyone who cares to read about this  -  https://static.ark.org/eeuploads/arml/TortImunity_Nov2012_WEB.pdf. I confess I have not bothered. )

My guess is InTouch is the primary target, but they do have some defenses.  The First Amendment being the primary one.  Newsworthiness another.  Had the Duggars not had a TV show and been all over various publications, I think they'd have a very strong privacy case if something like this just hit even the local media.  But they made themselves newsworthy in pursuit of the Godly Dollar, despite the very bad skeletons they had sitting in their closet. Granted, this is all JB's and Michelle's fault not the daughters', but newsworthy is newsworthy.

So does InTouch settle or do they ride the publicity of the lawsuit?

I just hope the "girls" and their headships have been forewarned about discovery and depositions.  You don't just get to file a suit and go straight to a pile of money.  You have to prove your claims and then your damages.  Lawsuits are never pleasant.   And it's pretty sickening to think that this all stems from a child-molesting Duggar and his parents putting him far ahead of their own victimized daughters.  

[WhyNotJulie]

I'm a Degreed Law Professional, but not in Arkansas (or in the USA at all), however - if Joshgate all happened in my home jurisdiction, I think the girls may actually have a leg to stand on.

From a PR standpoint I'm not sure it's wise to bring up the sexual abuse AGAIN when everything has died down and their TV show is (relatively) "successful"; however, they're right that their identities should never have been made public.

Complying with the spirit of the law (rather than simply the letter of the law) in this case, the girls shouldn't have ever been put in a position where this information about them was made public. Even though their names were redacted, the person who released the documents knew or ought to have known that they would be able to be easily identified.

Just my two cents.

[closetcagebaby]

@WhyNotJulie

wouldn't a magazine that I imagine has done plenty of FOIA requests know exactly what was and was not acceptable, though?

I feel like the only reason they were identifiable was the fact that Jim Boob and Michelle put their family on television and did little to protect their children's privacy. 

[HarleyQuinn]

I can't see a defense attorney being harsh with the girls, but I can see them being gently thorough. "Was your name literally on those documents? No? Did you literally out yourself on fox News?" In Touch would probably get a female attorney too to make it seem gentler,  but they'll still ask all the hard hitting questions.

These girls are probably not even entertaining the thought of this going to trial. They've been raised to be so entitled. They're all probably thinking step 1: sue. Step 2: get money and nothing else.

[JenniferJuniper]

5 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I can't see a defense attorney being harsh with the girls, but I can see them being gently thorough. "Was your name literally on those documents? No? Did you literally out yourself on fox News?" In Touch would probably get a female attorney too to make it seem gentler,  but they'll still ask all the hard hitting questions.

Gentle if it makes it to trial testimony.  Maybe not so gentle during deposition questioning.

[Kelsey]

This is probably not a very nice thing to say but I would pay literal money to watch JB and M get torn a new asshole on the stand. They NEED it, IMO. They need someone to get through their sick heads that this is ALL THEIR FAULT. (not the initial "inappropriate touching" but all the subsequent ones after Josh told them he had done it).

I think the only one who really outed themselves was JIll. From the information given in the redacted reports, it was crystal clear that Jessa, Jinger, and Joy were all victims. There simply were no other options.

I hope any depositions and court transcripts are not released to the public, if they contain any graphic details about the girls mental status or assaults.

I'm also skeptical that Jill and Jessa are claiming they were sexually assaulted now when Jill and Jessa were very clear that to consider them as having been sexually assaulted is completely ridiculous when they appeared on Megyn Kelly. Which is it? 

[FeministShrew]

These young women have been sacrificed to Gothardism & the "Josh repented so you have to forgive him" mindset. Their well-being doesn't seem to matter at all. Cover it all up when it happened, keep it covered up for the sake of the show, and minimize it when it finally comes out. Minimize your feelings and toe the party line of forgiveness. Then go through it all again for a lawsuit (that I believe they have every right to pursue). 
If Boob or Moochelle really loved their daughters, and cared about them at all, they would have pulled the plug on the show when the scandal broke, sought further counselling, & faded quietly away. Or  better yet, handled things properly when the abuse occurred.
I hate everything about this.

My own abuse as a child caused me to act out inappropriately with men & boys, and led to more abuse, but also be extremely wary of males as I matured. It also caused me to be terrified of going to hell, and to be obsessed with being "saved." And I was just raised mainstream 70s Southern Baptist, before the conservative resurgence. I can't imaigine what it did to little girls raised in such a strict fundie lifestyle.

[Stormy]

27 minutes ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I can't see a defense attorney being harsh with the girls, but I can see them being gently thorough. "Was your name literally on those documents? No? Did you literally out yourself on fox News?" In Touch would probably get a female attorney too to make it seem gentler,  but they'll still ask all the hard hitting questions.

These girls are probably not even entertaining the thought of this going to trial. They've been raised to be so entitled. They're all probably thinking step 1: sue. Step 2: get money and nothing else.

Also consider that these aren't normal people. What might be an innocuous question to most might be taken as really inappropriate to the Duggar women. They'd find a way to perceive it as a personal attack while legitimately believing it along the way.

[ADoyle90815]

I hate to say it, but if such a trial were to happen, I'd watch it if it were shown on HLN just to see JB and M get torn a new asshole by those defense attorneys. Realistically, I hope there isn't a jury trial because the victims have gone through enough already, and that trial would just victimize them all over again.