Can we talk about Fundies and food?

[HereticHick]

If I had to eat in any fundy family, it would be the Bontragers. They've got a huge garden & know how to use it (jars of salsa and tomato sauce for days!). And a great love of desserts (partly thanks to their Mennonite background. : )), and of Tex-Mex food, thanks to frequent visits to the Mennonite colonies in northern Mexico. And the boys learn how to cook too.Now I'm hungry.

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, ViolaSebastian said:

One of the things that I never really understood about the eating habits of the Bates and Duggars was the massive amount of processed food they ate, given that they had tons of people with nothing but time on their hands. For the most part, they didn't work, spent relatively little time on schooling, had almost no outside activities, etc. Combine that with an emphasis on creating "Ph.Ds in homemaking," you'd think someone could be arsed to plant a garden or make sauce from scratch. 

I think they're emphasizing quantity over quality, which doesn't surprise me in families with 19 kids who wish they could keep counting, and also the J'slaves were cooking multiple massive meals each day because they were told to vs. say loving it.  A garden would have made total sense, but I guess were considered non-essential jurisdictions (like putting dishes into a dishwasher).

[NakedKnees]

Agreed that Emily is the worst, and Nauglers are a close second, although Rodriguii seem borderline abusive to me on the food front. Maxwells seem healthy enough- it's just the potential for disorder that bothers me there. They remind me of my own upbringing.

I'm not surprised that Duggars and Bates are as processed-obsessed as they are. Learning how to chop veggies and meat takes a lot more supervision and practice than most people who don't cook often realize. That said, frozen or even canned fruits and vegetables could have made a world of difference in their thrown-together-by-tweens meals. Also, nothing grosses me out more than canned chicken and "chickenetti," and I home-ferment foods (which definitely gets weird sometimes), so I tend to cut a lot of slack there, and that's my bias.

In addition to disordered eating, I am curious as to how fundie kids will deal with their diet-related health later in life, especially given the ongoing state of affordable healthcare in the US. Sad and potentially tragic to think about.

[JermajestyDuggar]

I always assumed that since the Duggars got married in the 80s and quite young, they probably didn't learn a lot of healthy cooking from their parents or friends. Processed foods were pretty normal back then. JB worked at a grocery store for awhile so I'm sure he knew all the cheapest stuff by heart. When Michelle had a bunch of young children she probably made the fastest cheapest meals possible. And once the girls got old enough to cook, they just made the same food since it's what everyone was used to. They live in rural Arkansas. It's not like it's the health food capital of the world. I'm sure plenty of other families they knew were eating similarly. So the duggar family's way of eating is not surprising to me at all. 

[ladyamylynn]

6 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

This said, I have the impression that American people doesn't use to cook very much. Is it true? Or is it just a wrong idea?

Americans cook more than you might think. There was definitely a trend toward eating out or consuming more fast/convenience foods starting in the 60s, but the downward trend leveled off in the 90s. According to studies I have seen, about 75% of low income people cook most of their evening meals at home, a bit lower for higher income folks. I think it's a bit of a myth that Americans as a group can't/don't cook.

[JMO]

@lawlifelgbt It's usually a sign of either lack of food in the home (whether due to financial situation/neglect or both) and/or food being used as part of punishment.  If a young child is hoarding food at school that means that they have learned even as a toddler that food is scarce and you don't know when and where your next meal is coming from.  It may be because there is literally no food at home and the parents need to be hooked into WIC and/or a food pantry, or it may because no one gives a damn enough about the child to make sure that they are fed and at appropriate times or may even be with-holding food as a punishment.  I have heard from acquaintances that adopted older children that had issues with their children food hoarding.  They were encouraged to put out a basket of healthy snacks that the children were allowed unlimited access to so that they'd realize that there wasn't a need to hoard food.  

[lawlifelgbt]

@JMO I can see how putting food out would be helpful in that case...what can one say to reassure such kids, and how do you stop food-anxiety but also prevent overeating? Does a frame for snack times like I describe below that I use help or not?

 

(Now 27, I've been transitioning to healthier food for some years since what I used to eat unsupervised was crap. I didn't want to look like Josh!

 

What I do now is split my workday into exactly equal time bits, take more food to work than I think I will need, and eat a snack or drink at set times, mentally reminding myself there's always extra and I can eat as much as I like. Sounds counterintuitive, I know. A pastry from the coffee place, or carrots or yogurt in the morning, an apple, and hot cocoa if it's cold, in the afternoon.

 

....I have a crippling weakness for Haribo, though. And coffee shop pastries).

 

ETA: Asking because I want to foster at some point.

[JermajestyDuggar]

2 minutes ago, lawlifelgbt said:

....I have a crippling weakness for Haribo, though. And coffee shop pastries).

I know this is way off topic but... have you ever read the reviews for sugar free Haribo gummy bears? I had tears rolling down my face and I couldn't breath I was laughing so hard. 

[JMO]

@JermajestyDuggar I love those.  

For the rest of you: Please to enjoy....

https://www.amazon.com/Haribo-SUGAR-Classic-Gummi-Bears/dp/B006J1FBLM

The first review is pretty awesome on it's own:

"It all started the day prior when my sugar tooth persuaded me to eat 2 handfuls of these sugar-free delights. Fast forward 15 hours 23 minutes and 44 seconds, the world shook. All hell broke loose inside me, a sudden headache, my skin began to perspire and something tore around in my abdomen with force enough to make me latch onto my couch with both hands and let out a sheer cry that sent my dog retreating into the bedroom, she probably knew the battle was already lost. I tried to make for the bathroom but the pressure was so intense I had to wait it out on the couch until a lapse in the gut-busting occurred and I regained control of my muscles. It took only moments before the volcano Mt Anus had blown its top. The air quickly turned poisonous from the methane and sulfuric fumes that spewed forth. Violence and terror are understatements of what happened for the next 45 minutes. I sustained 3rd degree burns from contact with the lava that flowed abruptly from my bowels, my blood pressure was at record levels, and my body mass was reduced by 4 lbs. After ample ventilation of the crime scene I quickly took a shower and changed clothes because the powerful fumes had soaked through the fabric and into the skin. I almost had a mental breakdown in the shower after realizing those little gummy bears had nearly defeated such a man that I thought I was. I can now hardly bare to look forward through the night-terrors and PTSD that will come of this horrid event. . ."

[lawlifelgbt]

1 minute ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know this is way off topic but... have you ever read the reviews for sugar free Haribo gummy bears? I had tears rolling down my face and I couldn't breath I was laughing so hard. 

I have! I think my favorites were "my dinner with Andrea" and the one where the guy describes his...bowel sounds...as random German shouts. KWISATZ HADERATCH!!!

[BoPeep]

@JMO, relatives of ours kept foster kids for several years, and except for the babies, all the children hoarded food when they first arrived.  And I remember their 2nd and 3rd littles....how they ate and ate and ate, gorging themselves on every meal (at the beginning)....they were 2&3 yrs, brother and sister.  It's heartbreaking to see how hungry children have been, and at such a young age.  I was a kid, so I am unsure exactly how they stopped the kiddos from hoarding foods, but I remember it was expected that they would, and seemed to be dealt with in a healthy way.  

[December]

50 minutes ago, ladyamylynn said:

I think it's a bit of a myth that Americans as a group can't/don't cook.

Part of it might be different perceptions of what cooking involves. For example, does a person consider making boxed mac and cheese cooking or preparation? Is it cooking in the same way that making it from scratch with pasta and cheese would be? I think you could probably find a wide variety of answers. 

[ladyamylynn]

@December  Agree! I know plenty of people who hit the hot bar at whole foods and probably consider that cooking. But one only need look at your local Asian grocery store to see packaged prepared foods aren't merely an American thing.

[December]

@ladyamylynn Oh, I totally agree that prepared foods aren't purely American. Just that the prevalence of them (especially in media) might influence people's opinions of American food. That said, things seem to be trending back towards fresh, from scratch meals over convenience foods so maybe the negative connotations will disappear soon! 

[BoPeep]

I know far too many families that are never home TO cook.  They are too busy....too late getting home from work or running almost every evening.  My dh is the only one at work that brings a meal to heat up for lunch.  (He eats the leftovers from the previous night's supper.)  I've been to his work potlucks, and out of 200+ offerings, less than 10 were homemade.  (In our early marriage, we lived overseas, and work potlucks were all homemade....drool!)  

I have family and friends who eat out for at least 17 of the 21 meals in a week.  We eat out about 6-7 times a month, with 2 of those being quick lunches for the kids when we're running errands, and are too far from home.  

[JesusCampSongs]

12 hours ago, Melissa1977 said:

This said, I have the impression that American people doesn't use to cook very much. Is it true? Or is it just a wrong idea? No offense please, I've never been there and it's just something I've been told.

I think it varies a lot. I typically only go out for food two or three times a month, but some of my friends dine out for almost every meal. Including breakfast. From what I've observed, it's a relationship between free time and disposable income, though that curve gets warped by, for example, food and hospitality workers who get shift or comped meals when they work. 

I also think there's a big difference between what non-Americans would see as cooking and what many Americans actually do-- making food, mostly from scratch and using fresh ingredients versus warming up a frozen lasagna, dumping jarred sauce into pasta, or throwing together a Hamburger Helper or other meal kit. So, cooking vs. eating at home? I'm not sure how to delineate this, as it's definitely a spectrum. Growing up, my mom would sometimes cook meals that were more or less from scratch, but other times, we'd eat Hamburger Helper or frozen pizza. 

Anyway, I suspect a lot of the differences boil down to the fact that Americans (across income levels) work way more hours per week than people in other industrialized countries, so we don't all have the ability to devote a lot of time to food preparation. Using myself as an example, I work around 40-45 hours a week but spent about 1.25 hours a day on the road commuting. So, cooking a whole meal from scratch every night isn't really an option for me.  I therefore do a lot of food preparation on Sunday. Breakfast is usually scrambled eggs or granola bars, lunch is pasta, stir-fry, or a meat with a vegetable, and dinner is usually a soup or chili that can be reheated easily. Even then, I spend a good 4-6 hours every weekend buying and prepping food, which is a pretty big chunk of my free time. 

[PumaLover]

I am experiencing the food hoarding first hand. We adopted our now 12 year old daughter last year and she constantly hoards food. We would find candy and food wrappers in her underwear drawer and pockets and backpack. She is in therapy for various other past trauma and we have been addressing the hoarding. She also constantly sneaks food. I buy her two weeks worth of junk food snacks that she has to ration to last for that time. Then she has unlimited access to healthy snacks like cheese sticks, fruit, etc. Last week she ate all 14 of the snacks in like 3 days. So it's definitely still a struggle for us and we are working on it. She knows that she will always have food with us, and plenty of it, but those past demons are hard to break free of.

[Hane]

8 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I always assumed that since the Duggars got married in the 80s and quite young, they probably didn't learn a lot of healthy cooking from their parents or friends. Processed foods were pretty normal back then. JB worked at a grocery store for awhile so I'm sure he knew all the cheapest stuff by heart. When Michelle had a bunch of young children she probably made the fastest cheapest meals possible. And once the girls got old enough to cook, they just made the same food since it's what everyone was used to. They live in rural Arkansas. It's not like it's the health food capital of the world. I'm sure plenty of other families they knew were eating similarly. So the duggar family's way of eating is not surprising to me at all. 

The popularity of "health food"--whole grains, less refined sugar, lots of fruits and vegetables, organics, vegetarianism--definitely peaked in the '70s, when I was a newlywed. I used to bake my own bread and grow my own sprouts.

There was a backlash against it in the '80s, though. When aerobic exercise became popular, there was a fad about "carb loading": eating starchy foods for energy. People supposedly got "tired" of the earthy-crunchy hippie foods of the '70s and embraced things like giant chocolate chip cookies. 

Thanks in part to growing agricultural subsidies of things like corn, wheat, and soy (components of junk food), fast food meals started being supersized. The original 1960 McDonald's meal of a regular hamburger, small fries, and a soda (there were no Big Macs until 1968) was the size of today's Happy Meal and marketed to adults. 

 

[NachosFlandersStyle]

I think that a lot of the better-off families have the opposite problem-- when every other pleasure in the world is sinful and forbidden, why not stuff yourself with cake? Folks like the Duggars with their tater-tot casserole or a few of the other families that are a little heavier. It makes a lot of sense, if your life kind of sucks, to at least eat heartily.

And it's really only 25% if Americans who eat at home "most of the time"?! My partner and I are trying to cut back on expenses, and I feel guilty for having dinner at a restaurant once every week or two...

[ophelia]

 

@HereticHick, thanks for making me hungry too. And I have to agree - they really seem to cook very well and healthy and their food always look delicious.

[JermajestyDuggar]

4 hours ago, NachosFlandersStyle said:

I think that a lot of the better-off families have the opposite problem-- when every other pleasure in the world is sinful and forbidden, why not stuff yourself with cake? Folks like the Duggars with their tater-tot casserole or a few of the other families that are a little heavier. It makes a lot of sense, if your life kind of sucks, to at least eat heartily.

I agree that unhealthy eating or overeating is an often overlooked sin when it comes to a lot of fundie families. I am always amazed at the behaviors that are ok to fundies. I would think that knowingly harming body that god made you would be a sin they pay more attention to. But nope. They seem to care more about things like "illegals" and "traditional families." Which affect them much less than eating unhealthy.

[apandaaries]

On 5/10/2017 at 5:03 AM, Melissa1977 said:

This said, I have the impression that American people doesn't use to cook very much. Is it true? Or is it just a wrong idea? No offense please, I've never been there and it's just something I've been told.

There is a lot of variety to this, but I believe overall, you are correct.  This data is getting a bit stale, but Michael Pollan writes a lot about food culture in the US.  According to this article from 2009, the average American spends 27 minutes per day cooking, and another 4 minutes cleaning up (http://www.nytimes.com/2009/08/02/magazine/02cooking-t.html -- just a warning, Pollan seems to think a lot of cooking should be done by women, as it often has been, and he doesn't really account for that underlying assumption. We all have some unconscious bias).  That's certainly not my average, but there are also a lot of people in the States who will have breakfast from a drive-thru, and lunch and dinner will be pretty similar.

  A lot of Americans work and commute many extra hours each day, which certainly impacts potential cooking time.  But fundie families and their eating habits remain a mystery to me.  My great-grandparents had 8 kids, a big garden, and a cow, so everyone had to help out, but everyone also had healthy food.  But they were also immigrants, so perhaps that helped influence their healthier choices, along with it being a different time period. 

However, nothing any fundie has prepared has ever been as monstrous as these items: https://www.buzzfeed.com/ariannarebolini/truly-upsetting-vintage-recipes?utm_term=.nd2v0onze#.wkZAOeM5p

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

I have to ask -- who is this Emily and Under 1000? Skirt cheese? Groodles?  Is there a link somewhere?

[NotQuiteMotY]

It really does seem to vary as far as area/family influence goes in the US. I know people my age, around 30, who eat out most meals; those who "cook" but it's mostly heating mixes and cans; and those who cook mostly or entirely from scratch. I think there's more of a push to cook from scratch now, but. For everyone like my SIL, who grew up eating restaurant food and take-out and wants to learn to cook and bake, there's my friend who got a lot of home-cooked stuff growing up but seems to eat out a lot, especially for dinner.

Seriously, though, I don't get a lot of the approach of the fundies. Yeah, canned cream of stuff is cheap, but canned veggies are, too. The food would stretch farther and be more nutritious if they chucked in a can or two of peas or something. It would still be mushy, but it would be something. (Has anyone bought Velveeta? Is it actually any cheaper than real cheese?)

It seems a lot like these families tend to be penny-wise and pound-foolish. They save some time using cans of stuff for cooking rather than hitting a farmstand for cheap veggies in the summer, but it hits their health long-term and their wallets short-term. The Duggars, at least, don't have a clothesline and instead run everything through the dryer; with that many kids it would be easy to start loads in the washers before bed, have everyone hang clothes while the second round washes, hang those, and then let them go for the day. No worries about different drying needs for different garments, no time at all with even three or four kids doing it, and save money on energy costs most of the year.

[crawfishgirl]

As others have said, I believe that the amount of time spent cooking is inverse to the amount of time spent working and commuting.  I live in a large city with horrible traffic and limited public transportation, so when I was working and my kids were small and labor-intensive, I had a difficult time cooking at each meal.  Also, most companies expect their exempt-level (salaried, not hourly) workers to work more than the standard 40 hours a week.  And I have never been a high-energy person.  Now that I am a SAHM and my kids are older, I cook almost every meal.  I have the time, and since our food budget is smaller, it just makes more sense.  My cooking skills have improved quite a bit since I stopped working.  

On a related note:  have any of you ever tried one of those home delivery companies (the ones that ship fresh ingredients and a recipe for a meal that you cook) like Blue Apron or Hello Fresh?  I made the mistake of going to one of their websites once, and now they constantly appear on my facebook feed as a sponsored company.  It's interesting to read the comments - many of the commenters appear to be paid to do so.  When someone mentions that the cost is higher than if you just go to the grocery store, they will get jumped on.   I won't be trying them - the average cost (after the usual low introductory price) is around $10 per meal per person, so around $40 for a family of 4 for one meal, and you still have to cook it and clean afterwards.  Even though they claim to be cheaper, anyone who regularly shops and cooks knows better - though of course, we aren't their target market.   However, I can see where it wouldn't be too bad for a single person or a couple without kids, but I can't imagine I'd ever try it.