Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[VelociRapture]

49 minutes ago, wandering woman said:

Whitney and the gang have gone swimming in a pool that she referred to as belonging to her parents. Are these the adoptive or bio ones?

I believe it's her biological mother's house. I think it's the same place they held a joint pool party for Addie and Ellie in an earlier season - they both were born in colder months and were given the ok by their parents to postpone their parties until he summer so they could do a pool party.

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

Go for it.  

And many thanks for the comprehensive Bates summaries.  Prior to today, all the Bates kids younger than Tori were an amorphous mass for me!  

You're welcome!

I've gotten stuff down for the parents, SmugAnna, the twins, and the Dills so far. I figure I'll do the same thing I did with the Bates - start with the stuff I know, add in a bit I find through research, and then take suggestions on what to add from comments.

[Palimpsest]

15 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I figure I'll do the same thing I did with the Bates - start with the stuff I know, add in a bit I find through research, and then take suggestions on what to add from comments.

I think you are doing a fantastic job in filtering out facts from speculation and opinion.  That is what makes a good summary.

And the Duggar (and Bates) facts are damning enough.

[Hisey]

11 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

 As she never changed her name to Owens (Whitney Perkins) I seriously doubt she was ever formally adopted.  She has now apparently reconciled with her parents.

That is it.  All else is rumor and speculation.  Can we leave it alone now, please.

 

Actually, changing your name (or not) is not proof of anything. You can be adopted and choose not to change your name. Happens every day. Whitney might have chosen to keep her name for a variety of reasons.

I really don't like the use of the word "reconcile" in cases like this. If there is abuse (or enough dysfunction to require a child to be removed), then the child really doesn't "reconcile" with his parents. Instead, the parents become less dangerous  to their child and it becomes safe for the child to be with them again. "Reconcile" implies that two equal parties are mad at each other and then resolve their differences. 

[Palimpsest]

OK.  Let's put it this way.  In order for a minor to be legally adopted they have to be:

1. orphaned (neither parent living) and no designated guardian, or
2. their parents' parental rights have been terminated. This can be either

• Voluntary.  The parent(s) surrender their child.  Either for adoption at birth by new parties (or a parent voluntarily surrenders their rights so a step-parent can adopt).  Sometimes a parent wants to voluntarily surrender a problem child to the Department of Children and Families because they cannot cope with the child.  In the case of an older child or teen they have to provide very good reasons.  They can't just do it on a whim because they are tired of parenting.

Or

• Involuntary (CPS has determined that there is criminal abuse or serious ongoing neglect that cannot be mitigated).

Parental rights are serious business.   It is a legal relationship with responsibilities and duties.  Both voluntary and involuntary termination should be the last resort. Termination of parental rights requires a decision by the court.  The court makes the decision in the best interest of the child. 

Usually Termination of Parental Rights records are not Public Record (I don't know about TN.)  Adoption records are also not usually Public Record (I don't know about TN.)

The only "evidence" I can see that Whitney was adopted is Kelly Jo Bates's courtship post.  Her birth parents' glaring absence from her wedding is the evidence that she was estranged from them at that time, but not that their parental rights were ever terminated.  Or that she came from a seriously abusive or neglectful background.  

People can be estranged from their parents for many reasons.  People can patch up past arguments and enormous hurts with their parents too and have good relationships going forward.

 Kelly Jo is not reliable (we have caught her in fibs) and she may have been using the word adopted loosely because she was trying to make poor Whitney sound respectable to their followers.  Along the lines of - she may have worked at Sonic and wears pants but her adoptive Daddy (or foster parent or guardian when she was a minor) is a preacher!

I don't think Whitney herself has said a word about all of this.

All the speculation about serious abuse or neglect is actually just that - speculation.  It is based on salacious third party gossip on the internet as far as I can tell.  

Whatever happened, it happened when she was a MINOR.  I think that it is Whitney's business to handle her relationship with her birth parents as best she can.   And, while we are at it, what evidence do we have that she is now completely estranged from the Owenses? 

[VineHeart137]

12 hours ago, Hisey said:

Actually, changing your name (or not) is not proof of anything. You can be adopted and choose not to change your name. Happens every day. Whitney might have chosen to keep her name for a variety of reasons.

Kelly addressed this on her blog (Although as has been stated multiple times, Kelly isn't known for her honesty so take it with a grain of salt). She said Whitney chose not to change her name because she was already so old.

2 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

And, while we are at it, what evidence do we have that she is now completely estranged from the Owenses? 

I don't follow the Bateses that closely but I think that particular speculation train really took off when Whitney made a Mother's Day post on IG and included her biological mom and Kelly but said nothing about her "adoptive" mother. Plus, I don't think there's been any sign of the Owenses on Whitney's social media in quite some time although that certainly isn't definitive proof.

[HereticHick]

On 7/16/2017 at 3:39 PM, Carm_88 said:

Zach has the special touch to get Kaci Lynn to sleep apparently. 

I am defrauded by Daddy's toplessness

[speller24]

21 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

@PalimpsestHa! Just wait for my Duggar summaries. No way am I being judicious with those. 

YES!!! Oh how the stars are aligning and all my dreams are coming true! @VelociRapture, please please please! I might even pay you  

[Jane M.]

I don't know what Whitney went through when she was a child/teenager but at least she now has a lovely family of her own and seems to be in a very very happy place. 

[JillyO]

Obviously Whitney has the right to keep the details of her adoption private. However, she chose to put her life of TV as an adult. She presented one set of parents (adoptive) as her parents on the show during the courtship/wedding, and then presented another set of parents (biological) as her parents on the show since Bradley's birth, and has basically just pretended like nothing happened. Which, again, is absolutely her right, but I find it completely natural and understandable that people are curious about this. If you don't want people talking about your life, don't participate in a "reality" TV show.

[VelociRapture]

2 minutes ago, JillyO said:

Obviously Whitney has the right to keep the details of her adoption private. However, she chose to put her life of TV as an adult. She presented one set of parents (adoptive) as her parents on the show during the courtship/wedding, and then presented another set of parents (biological) as her parents on the show since Bradley's birth, and has basically just pretended like nothing happened. Which, again, is absolutely her right, but I find it completely natural and understandable that people are curious about this. If you don't want people talking about your life, don't participate in a "reality" TV show.

Their courtship and wedding were never featured on a show. United Bates of America aired between August and September 2012 - that show featured Zach's courtship proposal to Sarah Reith (which occurred in 2011.) He didn't allegedly meet Whitney until sometime in 2012 when there was no filming (because the show was cancelled.) Bringing Up Bates began filming in the fall of 2014, right before Bradley was born. 

Out of all the married couples, Zach and Whit are the only ones not to have their wedding filmed. The only reason we know about the adoptive parents at all is because of Kelly - she was the one with the public blog and she was the one who flat out said the Owenses were adoptive parents. Whitney herself has never publicly commented in anyway as far as I know.

So I get the interest, but still. Whitney has never addressed the situation in anyway whatsoever. That's all on Kelly.

[JillyO]

6 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Their courtship and wedding were never featured on a show.

Ha, you're right. I don't actually watch the show, so I totally forgot about that. I still maintain my point that it would be weird to participate in a reality show and expect viewers not to be curious about a parental switcheroo.

[VelociRapture]

2 hours ago, JillyO said:

Ha, you're right. I don't actually watch the show, so I totally forgot about that. I still maintain my point that it would be weird to participate in a reality show and expect viewers not to be curious about a parental switcheroo.

Lol! I know. I get it too. I think it kind of has to suck for Whitney though since she's not the one who talked about it in the first place. I think Kelly said at some point that she had gotten her permission to mention it, but who the fuck really knows with Kelly.

[DutchGirl]

Of course Kelly has got Whitney's permission to talk about this. The same way as she got Whitney to be skirts only: You want my son? You jump trough my hoops! 

[Palimpsest]

6 hours ago, DutchGirl said:

Of course Kelly has got Whitney's permission to talk about this. The same way as she got Whitney to be skirts only: You want my son? You jump trough my hoops! 

Except wasn't there a whole lot of drama recently when Whitney posted a photo of herself in jeans?  By your reasoning Kelly should be clamping down her iron fist about that!  And about that defraudingly short skirt!

I think people get carried away sometimes by (understandable) curiosity about these TV families, especially when the story-lines seem contradictory or just plain don't make sense! And that happens a lot on Unreality TV.  I truly think the family members sign away their rights to an honest narrative, along with their souls and their privacy.  

I do think we should remember that, even though they appear on TV (and IMO that is used a lot to justify over-invasive and frankly distasteful speculation) these are real people with real lives and real feelings.  I think some things should be off limits and say so.  MMV, of course.

19 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I think it kind of has to suck for Whitney though since she's not the one who talked about it in the first place. I think Kelly said at some point that she had gotten her permission to mention it, but who the fuck really knows wi

Quite.  I really do think Kelly spoke out of turn whether or not she had Whitney's permission.  It was Whitney's business and Kelly should have STFU.  

I do not like Kelly Jo.  Sorry, was that redundant?

[ColeJo]

Well, Whitney isn't one of the birthed originals, so Kelly may feel like she can reveal this and may not express the same discretion as she probably would with her own children. Heck, she may not even have any remorse for sharing this.

If Whitney wanted to share this she would have. I agree with @Palimpsest, they are people first. Her experience is her story to tell and should have been at her discretion as to whether to reveal stuff like this.

[Palimpsest]

On 7/19/2017 at 1:03 PM, VelociRapture said:

Their courtship and wedding were never featured on a show. United Bates of America aired between August and September 2012 - that show featured Zach's courtship proposal to Sarah Reith (which occurred in 2011.) He didn't allegedly meet Whitney until sometime in 2012 when there was no filming (because the show was cancelled.) Bringing Up Bates began filming in the fall of 2014, right before Bradley was born. 

I'd forgotten these details.  So, technically, when Whitney married Zach she didn't know she was marrying into an Unreality TV family.  They were a "former" TV family and she probably had no idea they would begin filming again with UP.  

Ack!  I now feel very sorry for poor Whitney, even though she and Zach obviously signed up for BUB later!   

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

I'd forgotten these details.  So, technically, when Whitney married Zach she didn't know she was marrying into an Unreality TV family.  They were a "former" TV family and she probably had no idea they would begin filming again with UP.  

Ack!  I now feel very sorry for poor Whitney, even though she and Zach obviously signed up for BUB later!   

Yep. Although, to be fair, Chad and Erin's wedding had been aired on 19 Kids and Alyssa's wedding was aired on ABC (I think.) Not to mention they may have appeared on other episodes of 19 Kids during that time. So it's hard to feel total sympathy for her on that. It's not like she had absolutely no idea that they might eventually get another show (and they did agree to be featured. Maybe they were persuaded or something, but I doubt anyone forced them.)

[Carm_88]

I doubt that whatever happened is something that Whitney wants to revisit. I do feel that her portraying the perfect family on instagram is a result of it. I hope that Whitney has found peace and that if Kelly shared it without permission that she tore a strip off her. 

[FeministFunPolice]

4 hours ago, Carm_88 said:

I doubt that whatever happened is something that Whitney wants to revisit. I do feel that her portraying the perfect family on instagram is a result of it. I hope that Whitney has found peace and that if Kelly shared it without permission that she tore a strip off her. 

It's not until you said that I realised how extremely well curated her Instagram is. We all do it, Whitney just does it better and more intentionally then most. 

[Flossie]

I think that Kelly had a lot more influence over Whitney at the beginning.  When the relationship was new, Whitney was young and probably easily influenced to do whatever Kelly and Gil wanted, because she was in love with Zach and knew that he was enmeshed with his family.  She probably didn't mind and loved the idea of being part of a big, loving family.  If Kelly decided to share the story of Whitney's adoption on her blog, Whitney probably would have agreed even if she wouldn't have put it out there herself.

But time has passed, Whitney and Zach have grown up more.  Their marriage seems to be taking center stage in their lives and they have a couple of adorable kids.  They have more confidence in themselves and it shows.  Out of respect, Whitney may wear skirts and modest wear when she visits the in-laws, but the rest of the time she's doing her own thing.

Zach and Whitney have agreed to filming the show, but I think that Whitney has decided to refuse to discuss her life before Zach.  It's her right, but since part of the story is out there, she can't expect people to forget about it.  She's just going to ignore it all until people get tired of asking, or she decides to tell her side of the story.  

I wonder what it means that Kelly is also staying silent.  Has she also decided that silence is the best policy, or would she like to say more but is afraid of upsetting Zach and Whitney?

[wandering woman]

Whitney has chosen to participate in a reality TV show and is making money by doing so. It is not surprising or bad that people speculate about her family history.  It comes with the territory.

[HereticHick]

55 minutes ago, wandering woman said:

Whitney has chosen to participate in a reality TV show and is making money by doing so. It is not surprising or bad that people speculate about her family history.  It comes with the territory.

Her headship has chosen to participate. We don't know how much choice she had

[wandering woman]

She seems to enjoy the publicity. She has an active Instagram account too.

[Melissa1977]

On 21/7/2017 at 3:11 PM, HereticHick said:

Her headship has chosen to participate. We don't know how much choice she had

She seems much more into social networks and popularity than him. I don't think Zach has forced her into anything, not even into the only-skirts decission.  

[LurkerOverThePond]

How can they afford all the gazillion family photo sessions? Are they given them free to promote the photographer or what? I've just been wondering because those sessions aren't cheap around here.