Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[crazysnark]

2 minutes ago, Destiny said:

Political thread drift as it directly relates to a fundie, like here, is fine. If you wanna have an in depth conversation take it to politics but there’s nothing wrong with this conversation in its current form and there is no reason to take it to politics. 

I’d put this in a box but it’s being a dick on my phone. Pretend there’s a green box here please. 

thank you 

[Destiny]

thank you 

If you want to continue to explain why trump doesn’t suck take it to politics. I look forward to seeing real, substantive things he has accomplished in your view.

[singsingsing]

38 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

It's funny when people say stuff like this but bring absolutely zero counter arguments. Did I say he was perfect? No. Someone asked me specific questions so I answered them. All you have to say is that I'm "ignorant and gullible" and then in a round about way call me stupid. Trust me I am far from stupid. But I do admit it is far easier to make a straw man argument than it is to actually participate in an intelligent discussion. I am happy you took the "When they go low we go high" quote to heart.  All liberals seem to do is immediately go low whenever an opposing view is voiced.

Actually, I'm not trying to debate you, I'm pointing to your post as an example of the way that many Donald Trump supporters think, and using it to illustrate how Whitney and her ilk justify their support of him. You disagree with my conclusion, which is only to be expected. And I'm not saying anything in a roundabout way, I'm saying quite clearly that you're ignorant and gullible. You're saying that you're far from stupid and that I'm incapable of participating in an intelligent discussion. I think we're both being pretty straightforward, we just happen to disagree with each other. The fact that you don't like what I'm saying or that you think it's mean or wrong does not mean that I'm making a straw man argument.

That you've for some reason chosen to assume that I must be a liberal Hillary Clinton supporter is somewhat hilarious and essentially proves my point re: ignorance and gullibility. I literally just stated, approximately two hours ago, on the same page of this exact thread, that I am not a liberal. Also, do you not see how you're blatantly contradicting yourself here? You're highly offended by people painting all Trump supporters with the same brush, but you have absolutely no problem making ridiculous generalizations about "liberals". Congrats on revealing your true colours.

[crazysnark]

I think I explained enough through my answers earlier. Like I said earlier people here aren't really interested in having a discussion, just straw mans and name calling. 

[singsingsing]

Great! I'm looking forward to continued discussion about Whitney Bates's involvement in a toxic fundamentalist religious-political movement intent on destroying the democratic institutions of the United States. I think it's a topic most worthy of conversation.

[Destiny]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Great! I'm looking forward to continued discussion about Whitney Bates's involvement in a toxic fundamentalist religious-political movement intent on destroying the democratic institutions of the United States. I think it's a topic most worthy of conversation.

Agreed. I’d also throw in that the Bates family’s devotion to the confederacy is disturbing and imho speaks to some underlying racist beliefs. 

[crazysnark]

1 minute ago, singsingsing said:

Actually, I'm not trying to debate you, I'm pointing to your post as an example of the way that many Donald Trump supporters think, and using it to illustrate how Whitney and her ilk justify their support of him. You disagree with my conclusion, which is only to be expected. And I'm not saying anything in a roundabout way, I'm saying quite clearly that you're ignorant and gullible. You're saying that you're far from stupid and that I'm incapable of participating in an intelligent discussion. I think we're both being pretty straightforward, we just happen to disagree with each other. The fact that you don't like when I'm saying or that you think it's mean or wrong does not mean that I'm making a straw man argument.

That you've for some reason chosen to assume that I must be a liberal Hillary Clinton supporter is somewhat hilarious and essentially proves my point re: ignorance and gullibility. I literally just stated, approximately two hours ago, on the same page of this exact thread, that I am not a liberal. Also, do you not see how you're blatantly contradicting yourself here? You're highly offended by people painting all Trump supporters with the same brush, but you have absolutely no problem making ridiculous generalizations about "liberals". Congrats on revealing your true colours.

You did clearly say I was gullible and ignorant (still never told me why) You in a roundabout way said that I was stupid which you clearly did not say. You equating Trump voters to people believing cabbage patch dolls IS a straw man argument. If you had substance I could disagree with you on something but there is no substance there. Just comparisons to cabbage patch dolls and grape juice drinking Jesus to people who voted for Trump. Also I know you said you weren't a liberal and I never called you specifically one. I was simply implying that people who make such low attacks like that to Trump supporters tend to be liberal and that's how they argue. No substance, only emotions, and eventually degrading the opposition. I also don't think I said you supported Hillary? That's just you putting words in my mouth.

 

I don't think you are incapable of having an intelligent conversation, I just think you either don't know much about policy or politics or you are choosing not to have an intelligent discussion with me. I think I have represented myself well. I don't think it's right to call a group of people disgusting because of who they vote for. That's all. I also will stand up for myself when someone calls me ignorant without explaining why. 

[infooverload]

Speaking of their perspective regarding the confederacy do you think any of the adults living on their own will check out the upcoming HBO series Confederate?

[Destiny]

Speaking of their perspective regarding the confederacy do you think any of the adults living on their own will check out the upcoming HBO series Confederate?

I’m not familiar. Do you have a link?

 

edit: though I would be surprised if they did. HBO is the network of “porn” and John Oliver.

 

*if you see boobs and butts it must be porn, amirite?

[crazysnark]

Is that the alternate reality series where the south won?

[Carm_88]

2 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Is that the alternate reality series where the south won?

It is indeed! It's also highly controversial already because I believe that there is still slavery. 

[crazysnark]

Just now, Carm_88 said:

It is indeed! It's also highly controversial already because I believe that there is still slavery. 

Yeah my husband told me about it. IMO people need to chill out. There is also a series out where the Nazi's won. It's just a TV show that is thought provoking. The only way it will piss me off is if they try to make it seem like everything would be better if we still had slaves. 

[Destiny]

It is indeed! It's also highly controversial already because I believe that there is still slavery. 

That sounds right up my alley. I’m a sucker for alternate history and dystopian stuff.

[crazysnark]

6 minutes ago, Destiny said:

I’m not familiar. Do you have a link?

 

edit: though I would be surprised if they did. HBO is the network of “porn” and John Oliver.

 

*if you see boobs and butts it must be porn, amirite?

Game of thrones ftw! I can't wait for tomorrow

[Destiny]

Game of thrones ftw! I can't wait for tomorrow

I don’t watch. I don’t enjoy watching violence in any form. I already see enough of man’s inhumanity to man in everyday life, I don’t want it in my entertainment.

[infooverload]

It is indeed! It's also highly controversial already because I believe that there is still slavery. 

I also find it interesting the producers of the show are black. Intellectually it is an interesting dimension to have the people who in the alternate reality would be slaves giving voice to the people in the alternate reality. As an aside I would be interested to know if their are any Jewish producers/writers for the Amazon series Man In the High Castle. The Amazon series from what I know of it has received good reviews and not had controversy surrounding it. I wonder why and I will also admit despite having Amazon Prime I haven't checked out the series. I did recently finish season 1 of Goliath on Amazon which was interesting.

[Destiny]

@infooverload Man in the High Castle is great television. I highly recommend it.

[SilverBeach]

@crazysnark, I do have a low, very low opinion of everybody who voted for the Tangerine Toddler after he clearly showed he was not fit for duty. Politics aside, he showed himself not to be a decent human being. I will never understand how anyone could want an indecent, unstable person leading this country and representing us on the world stage. Sorry, nothing is going to change my mind on this.

I apologize for the political talk, am chastising myself for going OT.

[crazysnark]

1 hour ago, Snarkle Motion said:

I'm as liberal as they get in most issues so much that my family refers to me at times as "pinko," "hippie," and SJW (social justice warrior). But I'm against what I'm seeing condemning all Trump voters - it's ineffective, patronizing, and fails to respect individuals' perspectives. 

So much of what this election has demonstrated is the cultural divide between urban and rural America. Trump capitalized on anger in rural America at feeling overlooked, disrespected, misunderstood, and that they are downright struggling. Now I believe that a lot of the struggles actually relate to decades of GOP economic policies and poor access to medical care and other social programs  (e.g. opioid epidemic). But Truml was able to capitalize on this anger and resentment in marketing his political agenda because this part of America felt that finally someone was listening and advocating for them. 

To dismiss every Trump voter is 1) dismissing 62 million people and making assumptions that they are all the same; and 2) providing further evidence that liberals and "elites" don't care to get to know them or understand their perspectives. Instead, democrats/liberals/east coast elites prefer to make sweeping stereotypes and call them ignorant. I have relatives who are doctors and lawyers who support gay rights that voted Trump. Hell, Caitlyn Jenner voted for Trump.

I also think to fault Whitney for voting Trump is misguided on a couple levels. It ignores the fact that their county overwhelmingly voted Trump. She's voting consistent with cultural and regional trends. If anything, the Bates willingness to bend beliefs to support a mainstream candidate rather than write in a radical fringe candidate suggests they are becoming more moderate (relatively).

 I'm also pretty sure that Pence being on the ticket helped enormously to relieve a lot of their concerns thinking he'd guide Trump. I'd also heard that to quell fears about Trump, evangelicals in certain circles were told that god would use Trump to get elected but then let Trump die so Pence could replace him to enact a Christian agenda.

Thank you for your input. We probably disagree on everything else (and that's OK!  ) but I am glad others are stepping in and saying this. I totally agree with you on the Mike Pence argument btw. McCain tried to the same with Palin. Trump was just better at it. 

[SilverBeach]

3 minutes ago, Destiny said:

@infooverload Man in the High Castle is great television. I highly recommend it.

YES, I love this series. It's an Amazon exclusive though.

[singsingsing]

9 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

You did clearly say I was gullible and ignorant (still never told me why)

(I'll respond to this, and then move on.)

You're gullible and ignorant for supporting Trump. I thought that was fairly self-explanatory. Trump supporters are either gullible and ignorant or malicious, and I'm giving you the benefit of the doubt by assuming that you're the former.

 

10 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

You equating Trump voters to people believing cabbage patch dolls IS a straw man argument. If you had substance I could disagree with you on something but there is no substance there. Just comparisons to cabbage patch dolls and grape juice drinking Jesus to people who voted for Trump.

You completely misunderstood my point. I wasn't claiming that (all) Trump voters believe such things. I very clearly said that it was no mystery how someone who did believe such things (i.e. Gothardites) could make the mental and emotional leap to supporting Trump. 

 

11 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Also I know you said you weren't a liberal and I never called you specifically one. I was simply implying that people who make such low attacks like that to Trump supporters tend to be liberal and that's how they argue. No substance, only emotions, and eventually degrading the opposition.

Oh, okay, so you weren't calling me a liberal, just accusing me of being as bad as one.  By the way, who does "No substance, only emotions, and eventually degrading the opposition" sound like? I'll let you guess. He's an orange lunatic. Hmmm... it's at the tip of my tongue...!

 

13 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I also don't think I said you supported Hillary? That's just you putting words in my mouth.

You're right, I was inferring it given that you specifically criticized me for not living up to the phrase "when they go low, we go high", which was one of Hillary Clinton's slogans during the campaign.

 

15 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I don't think you are incapable of having an intelligent conversation, I just think you either don't know much about policy or politics or you are choosing not to have an intelligent discussion with me.

That's right. But it's not because I'm trying to screw with you. It's because I'm literally not trying to have a discussion about whether Donald Trump is good or bad. I'm trying to point out how the same thought processes that lead people to embrace fundamentalist religion can also lead people to embrace Donald Trump.

 

16 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I think I have represented myself well. I don't think it's right to call a group of people disgusting because of who they vote for. That's all. I also will stand up for myself when someone calls me ignorant without explaining why. 

I think you've been civil despite the fact that you're insulted by what I've said. I think you have every right to stand up for yourself and to argue your point. I think it is absolutely disgusting that a single person voted for Donald Trump or continues to support him. I have no qualms about saying that, and I think it's vitally important to take a stand against any justification of Trump support, so I will not equivocate or apologize for that.

[SilverBeach]

12 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Yeah my husband told me about it. IMO people need to chill out. There is also a series out where the Nazi's won. It's just a TV show that is thought provoking. The only way it will piss me off is if they try to make it seem like everything would be better if we still had slaves. 

Your opinion is fine, except for the chill out part, unless you are black like me. 

[crazysnark]

2 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

@crazysnark, I do have a low, very low opinion of everybody who voted for the Tangerine Toddler after he clearly showed he was not fit for duty. Politics aside, he showed himself not to be a decent human being. I will never understand how anyone could want an indecent, unstable person leading this country and representing us on the world stage. Sorry, nothing is going to change my mind on this.

I apologize for the political talk, am chastising myself for going OT.

I do agree I don't think he is a great person. It's sad to say but some of the best leaders were unstable and/or not so great people. I think part of what has gone wrong in elections is we elect to much on likeability not necessarily who will do the job the best. You can thank televised debates for that one. ha

4 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

Your opinion is fine, except for the chill out part, unless you are black like me. 

Actually my opinion is fine regardless of what color I am, as I believe in equality of all races. 

[infooverload]

YES, I love this series. It's an Amazon exclusive though.

I'll eventually have to check it out. Does anyone else ever get overwhelmed at all the media selection available. I enjoy it don't get me wrong; at times though I go holy crap I can't get to everything I want to listen to, watch, and read. I mean currently I have a mixture of 20 different fiction and non fiction books to get through, just to give a mental picture. Then again I also think I wouldn't want to be a conservative/fundamentalist because my entertainment choices would a) be limited and often times poorly put together dreck trying to masquerade as good entertainment.

[SilverBeach]

@singsingsing, I would upvote your post a thousand times if I could, I feel exactly the same about Trump supporters. Your post was long so I didn't quote, but Bravo. My distaste for the Duggars/Bates/JRod, etc. increased exponentially after the election, and made me care even less about their hair, babies, or weddings. Ignorant indeed. Ugh.