Whitney and Zach Bates - Part 3

[lumpentheologie]

Whit does look happy.  But my fiancé calling and saying 'get ready' at the end of a long day would not go over well at our place. But then again I'm an introvert who hates people making plans for me, especially plans that involve me having to put effort into dressing up. Come home, make me dinner, clean up afterwards, give me a back rub while we watch tv and you have the keys to my heart. 

ETA: I always forget that Whitney is still in her early 20s. To be fair I would have been way more down to go out at that age than I am now, in my mid 30s. 

[Feminist_Defrauder91]

 @LillyP here's the shirtless picture.  Despite their disgusting beliefs, it is a very cute picture of him and Kaci Lynn.

 

 

 

 

[SuhrEnity]

Zach looks so much like Gil!

[CorruptionInc.]

10 hours ago, SuhrEnity said:

Zach looks so much like Gil!

Yep with different coloured hair. That's the first thing I noticed too.

[BeccaGrim]

I can't get over how 'normal' they seem. (I'm not fooled. I am sure they are FILLED with hateful beliefs) but compared to the others he seems so 'normal' and so does she.  And he's the oldest. Even Erin and Chad seem so out there--she wears practically a full outfit in the hottub.  And Michael is still modest to a fault.  

Zach just seems to be going about his life. Working. Taking care of his family. Taking his wife out for steak.  On vacation. Letting her wear bathing suits...

Is it bad this qualifies as normal when I think of these people? 

[VelociRapture]

Here's your friendly reminder that Whitney supported Trump (and that says everything I need to know about her beliefs):

 

[infooverload]

I would like to know what exactly in their book it means to make America great again. If abortions are illegal, they know they still occur, but they don't have to be morally concerned about them anymore. The truth is they want everything which makes them feel morally uncomfortable to be placed back in a closet. Everything from advocating for LGBTQ equality to increased gender quality. Along with having govt support of religion and acting as the wall of separation is only a one way wall. I like to use the analogy of they see the church/state wall being akin to the "two way" type mirrors used during police interrogations. They can see into the govt and influence the govt, but the church is not to be inspected by the govt. The famous line is freedom of religion not freedom from religion is often uttered as a mantra as well. While one wall is being chipped away at, another received lip service to garner votes and has destroyed good relations with several countries.

 

 

[candygirl200413]

She is SOOOO brave for expressing her support for a racist/sexism asshole *sarcasm*

It's a good reminder that no matter how 'normal' they appear, they are still horrible with horrible beliefs!

[crazysnark]

Spoiler alert: Not everyone who voted for Trump is a horrible person. I voted for him because I felt he was the better option over Hillary Clinton. 

I seem to remember Donald Trump holding up a rainbow flag at one of his rallies, and even declared he was for the LGBTQ community during his RNC acceptance speech. Just because he appoints people to the Supreme Court who disagree with homosexuality does not mean Trump is a liar in that area. In addition the issue of Same sex marriage has been decided on by the Supreme Court. It's done and over with.

Also not allowing trans people in the military is not him being a hater in that community either. Trans people statistically have higher mental health issues and are suicidal. We should not be putting weapons in their hands. 

On the issue of abortion, he and any one else has the right to believe that abortion is murder. This does not mean any one has to agree with said beliefs. Also with the issue of abortion, Roe Vs Wade is over and done with! Women have had the right to choose for decades now. It's a non issue. 

Sorry for the wall of text but it pisses me off that most liberals throw out choice and gay rights any time a republican politician is in question! It's almost like they don't really care about the real issues at hand that have not been taken care of, they just repeat like a parrot the issues that HAVE already been taken care of! 

 

Signed a woman who voted for Trump, who loves the gays, birth control, and is not a horrible person with disgusting beliefs. 

[Palimpsest]

3 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Spoiler alert: Not everyone who voted for Trump is a horrible person.

True.  I'm sure a few lovely and intelligent people fell for his campaign promises.  How do you feel about his foreign policy at the moment? Scares the shit out of me.

Ooops.  I forgot.  As this is not relevant to the Batessessses - and we've been asked to keep in depth political discussion in one place -  the politics forum is over here.  

http://www.freejinger.org/forum/466-quiver-full-of-politics/

See you over there, I hope. 

 

 

[Snarkle Motion]

On 8/11/2017 at 7:42 AM, BeccaGrim said:

I can't get over how 'normal' they seem. (I'm not fooled. I am sure they are FILLED with hateful beliefs) but compared to the others he seems so 'normal' and so does she.  And he's the oldest. Even Erin and Chad seem so out there--she wears practically a full outfit in the hottub.  And Michael is still modest to a fault.  

Zach just seems to be going about his life. Working. Taking care of his family. Taking his wife out for steak.  On vacation. Letting her wear bathing suits...

Is it bad this qualifies as normal when I think of these people? 

I think his failed courtship made him question a lot of things about how he was raised. While I'm sure they are still heavily conservative and religious in beliefs, I respect that he is able to think independently and relax rules about modesty and owning a TV. And even kissing before marriage! He discusses how he regrets not saving his first kiss, but I'm not sure if that's just what he feels he needs to say in front of his family or the cameras. But the fact that it's even discussed is a good thing! It helps others start to question what works for them. And that you can be human and break your purity standards (to a degree) without the wrath of god. 

I think overall Zach is a step in the right direction. My heart melted when he talked about wanting his son to be able to watch Winnie the Pooh and the idea that it was probably forbidden to him as a child. When the younger kids visit him they are getting a chance of limited exposure to the outside world and to see an example of that what their parents say isn't necessarily set in stone. And that defying or questioning your parents doesn't automatically mean shunning. Those re important messages to anyone questioning pushing the limits.

Whitney was the best thing for him and this family. She was the start of heading in a more mainstream direction. I've noticed that the middle girls (Tori, Carlin, Josie) appear to be dating non-gothard, "regular" evangelicals. I'm not sure that could or would have happened without Whitney. And they've revamped the courtship model to a much healthier version that more closely resembles dating. They start with "special friends" who go on group dates and courtship is now essentially pre-engagement. 

 I don't support whitneys beliefs or Trump (yuck) but close to half the country voted for him, including several in my extended family. That's hardly a reason in itself to hate on her. Now voicing support for trumps policies is when it starts to become more reasonable but Ive not seen her do that publicly.

[crazysnark]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

True.  I'm sure a few lovely and intelligent people fell for his campaign promises.  How do you feel about his foreign policy at the moment? Scares the shit out of me.

Ooops.  I forgot.  As this is not relevant to the Batessessses - and we've been asked to keep in depth political discussion in one place -  the politics forum is over here.  

http://www.freejinger.org/forum/466-quiver-full-of-politics/

See you over there, I hope. 

 

 

I was responding to a picture. Responding to such a picture would be weird in the political discussion don't you think? I see that on this thread Trump and his "disgusting" beliefs are talked about quite frequently and those people are never referred to the political forum.? Why is that? Also per the rules thread drift is common and allowed if you think I was even thread drifting.  Responding to a picture of Whitney BATES is "relevant to the Batessesses"

 

I would love to discuss foreign policy on the other thread however with the attitude here I feel it would only turn into name calling without any actual substance. I will however continue to post about it HERE if and when it is brought up again, as so many others have before me. 

 

[VelociRapture]

I posted the photo because it's relevant to the overall topic of this specific thread - Zach and Whitney Bates. Whitney chose to make her (and apparently Zach's) choice from the last election public and I do think their choice in President says a lot more about what they think and believe than their choice in attire or choice in entertainment for their children does.

I'm not going to get into a wider debate regarding politics here because the Admins have requested that general political discussions be contained to Quiverful of Politics (they did so shortly after the November election.) If Whit and Zach choose to share something related to politics though, I will comment on that specifically because their beliefs and views are relevant to the thread.

[singsingsing]

4 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I do think their choice in President says a lot more about what they think and believe than their choice in attire or choice in entertainment for their children does.

It also showcases their hypocrisy. Donald Trump essentially encompasses everything they claim to be so strongly opposed to, and yet they have no problem enthusiastically supporting him. Utter, blatant hypocrisy. Plenty of very religious conservatives are strongly opposed to Donald Trump, because he is an affront to everything they value and a threat to basic democracy. I am not a liberal, and it's been appalling (but sadly not all that surprising) to see scores of so-called "Christian" conservatives bow down to this psychopath. I think it's important to keep Whitney's cheerful support of Trump in mind when evaluating her lifestyle/life choices. Yeah, she has cute babies and cute clothes and a cute relationship. She also has no problem abandoning all principle to further a fascist political agenda. Not so cute.

[crazysnark]

11 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

I posted the photo because it's relevant to the overall topic of this specific thread - Zach and Whitney Bates. Whitney chose to make her (and apparently Zach's) choice from the last election public and I do think their choice in President says a lot more about what they think and believe than their choice in attire or choice in entertainment for their children does.

I'm not going to get into a wider debate regarding politics here because the Admins have requested that general political discussions be contained to Quiverful of Politics (they did so shortly after the November election.) If Whit and Zach choose to share something related to politics though, I will comment on that specifically because their beliefs and views are relevant to the thread.

And I will respond by saying whoever says Whitney is a disgusting person because she voted for Trump has a pretty low bar for judging a person and I gave reasons why I believe so. No need to be redirected. 

[Palimpsest]

7 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

If Whit and Zach choose to share something related to politics though, I will comment on that specifically because their beliefs and views are relevant to the thread.

Exactly.  That makes perfect sense and the politics of Whitney and Gil's clone (he really does look like Gil!) are relevant here.  

I did not see a single reference to the Bateses or the photo of Whitney in the first political rant supposedly "responding to it" above.  That is why I suggested moving the discussion to the political forum, as the Admins have so politely requested.

Did the Bateses support Trump from the beginning?  I can't remember.

 

[crazysnark]

2 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

Exactly.  That makes perfect sense and the politics of Whitney and Gil's clone (he really does look like Gil!) are relevant here.  

I did not see a single reference to the Bateses or the photo of Whitney in the first political rant supposedly "responding to it" above.  That is why I suggested moving the discussion to the political forum, as the Admins have so politely requested.

Did the Bateses support Trump from the beginning?  I can't remember.

 

Cruz of course. 

And before anyone accuses me of being a Trump ass kisser I'm not. I did vote for him in the general because I thought he was a better choice over careless Hillary Clinton. I was team Kasich from day one. Unfortunately he didn't have much of a chance. Still republican but way more moderate than Cruz or Trump. (That could be moved to the political forum but I am too lazy right now to do so) 

[infooverload]

Cruz of course. 
And before anyone accuses me of being a Trump ass kisser I'm not. I did vote for him in the general because I thought he was a better choice over careless Hillary Clinton. I was team Kasich from day one. Unfortunately he didn't have much of a chance. Still republican but way more moderate than Cruz or Trump. (That could be moved to the political forum but I am too lazy right now to do so) 

I'm curious since you say your not a Trump ass kisser if you had to give a breakdown of Trump's presidency what positive things has he done in your view to enhance the country. I will also grant a lot can't be accomplished in 6 months and we don't have the advantage of a long historical perspective. What things would you like him to change? Finally what in your minds eye did his campaign slogan of "Make America Great Again" mean to you? I was always confused by the again part of it. I mean we have said America is great and espoused this for years even continually saying it during the last administration. Wouldn't have been more accurate to say greater. As an aside I'm an oddball who didn't vote for either of the major party candidates. I was saddened there wasn't a push to focus on policy verses the dividing rhetoric of groups name calling like irresponsible dolts.

[nausicaa]

22 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

I did vote for him in the general because I thought he was a better choice over careless Hillary Clinton. 

Yeah, good thing we don't have anyone careless in the Oval Office. 

[crazysnark]

Just now, infooverload said:

18 minutes ago, crazysnark said:

Cruz of course. 
And before anyone accuses me of being a Trump ass kisser I'm not. I did vote for him in the general because I thought he was a better choice over careless Hillary Clinton. I was team Kasich from day one. Unfortunately he didn't have much of a chance. Still republican but way more moderate than Cruz or Trump. (That could be moved to the political forum but I am too lazy right now to do so) 

I'm curious since you say your not a Trump ass kisser if you had to give a breakdown of Trump's presidency what positive things has he done in your view to enhance the country. I will also grant a lot can't be accomplished in 6 months and we don't have the advantage of a long historical perspective. What things would you like him to change? Finally what in your minds eye did his campaign slogan of "Make America Great Again" mean to you? I was always confused by the again part of it. I mean we have said America is great and espoused this for years even continually saying it during the last administration. Wouldn't have been more accurate to say greater. As an aside I'm an oddball who didn't vote for either of the major party candidates. I was saddened there wasn't a push to focus on policy verses the dividing rhetoric of groups name calling like irresponsible dolts.

I think there is a difference in being an ass kisser and standing up to bullies who say someone or a group of people they don't even know are disgusting simply for voting for a certain candidate. I also didn't feel like I had to give a breakdown of Trump being a good guy but was trying to present the argument that the issues of choice and gay marriage aren't really issues anymore as they have been resolved. I always got confused when people said they hated that trump was anti LGBTQ when I think he is the first Republican candidate to openly and verbally support them during an election. 

 

Things I think he has done well so far. He is probably our best President in dealing with China and talking them out of being so close with North Korea. I won't go into much details because I don't want my mom's name to be revealed here but she is in the same industry as Trump and has to work with China on a lot of business deals. Let me tell you it is HARD to read and/or figure out the Chinese because they are always trying to save face. Because of his business experience in dealing with them I think he has done a great job in dividing China and North Korea. 

 

Things I want changed is more jobs,less debt, and fix this healthcare situation. He has done 2 of those things

 

The Make America Great Again slogan was mainly just a catchy title that people could like. He is a marketing genius! It gets people excited and he put it on red caps which instantly make people (at least veterans) think of the Marines.Trump understands that people gravitate towards repetition and familiarity so he would say "we lose here, we lose there but we will make it great again". This gave the average person an understanding of what was wrong and how he would "fix it" and it would be engrained in his/her head. Make America Greater isn't as catchy.  It was also a stab at President Obama and was trying to win the masses who think he royally screwed up the country. Trust me where I am from this is a popular opinion. 

 

I hope I cleared up confusion and answered everything.  

7 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Yeah, good thing we don't have anyone careless in the Oval Office. 

twitter happy....maybe. Knowingly leaking thousands of classified emails... I don't think it compares. 

[singsingsing]

Wondering what kind of ignorance and gullibility go into supporting Donald Trump? @crazysnark's comment could be exhibit a. Now apply that to Whitney, or anyone else associated with Gothardism. Is it really a surprise that people who honestly believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth with man, that Jesus drank grape juice, and that cabbage patch dolls are possessed by demons, would also believe that Donald Trump is doing a swell job and is going to 'Make America Great Again'?

[Snarkle Motion]

1 hour ago, crazysnark said:

And I will respond by saying whoever says Whitney is a disgusting person because she voted for Trump has a pretty low bar for judging a person and I gave reasons why I believe so. No need to be redirected. 

I'm as liberal as they get in most issues so much that my family refers to me at times as "pinko," "hippie," and SJW (social justice warrior). But I'm against what I'm seeing condemning all Trump voters - it's ineffective, patronizing, and fails to respect individuals' perspectives. 

So much of what this election has demonstrated is the cultural divide between urban and rural America. Trump capitalized on anger in rural America at feeling overlooked, disrespected, misunderstood, and that they are downright struggling. Now I believe that a lot of the struggles actually relate to decades of GOP economic policies and poor access to medical care and other social programs  (e.g. opioid epidemic). But Truml was able to capitalize on this anger and resentment in marketing his political agenda because this part of America felt that finally someone was listening and advocating for them. 

To dismiss every Trump voter is 1) dismissing 62 million people and making assumptions that they are all the same; and 2) providing further evidence that liberals and "elites" don't care to get to know them or understand their perspectives. Instead, democrats/liberals/east coast elites prefer to make sweeping stereotypes and call them ignorant. I have relatives who are doctors and lawyers who support gay rights that voted Trump. Hell, Caitlyn Jenner voted for Trump.

I also think to fault Whitney for voting Trump is misguided on a couple levels. It ignores the fact that their county overwhelmingly voted Trump. She's voting consistent with cultural and regional trends. If anything, the Bates willingness to bend beliefs to support a mainstream candidate rather than write in a radical fringe candidate suggests they are becoming more moderate (relatively).

 I'm also pretty sure that Pence being on the ticket helped enormously to relieve a lot of their concerns thinking he'd guide Trump. I'd also heard that to quell fears about Trump, evangelicals in certain circles were told that god would use Trump to get elected but then let Trump die so Pence could replace him to enact a Christian agenda.

[crazysnark]

16 minutes ago, singsingsing said:

Wondering what kind of ignorance and gullibility go into supporting Donald Trump? @crazysnark's comment could be exhibit a. Now apply that to Whitney, or anyone else associated with Gothardism. Is it really a surprise that people who honestly believe that dinosaurs roamed the earth with man, that Jesus drank grape juice, and that cabbage patch dolls are possessed by demons, would also believe that Donald Trump is doing a swell job and is going to 'Make America Great Again'?

It's funny when people say stuff like this but bring absolutely zero counter arguments. Did I say he was perfect? No. Someone asked me specific questions so I answered them. All you have to say is that I'm "ignorant and gullible" and then in a round about way call me stupid. Trust me I am far from stupid. But I do admit it is far easier to make a straw man argument than it is to actually participate in an intelligent discussion. I am happy you took the "When they go low we go high" quote to heart.  All liberals seem to do is immediately go low whenever an opposing view is voiced.

 

. 

 

[catlady]

1 hour ago, nausicaa said:

Yeah, good thing we don't have anyone careless in the Oval Office. 

if i could, i would like this a hundred times.

[Destiny]

Political thread drift as it directly relates to a fundie, like here, is fine. If you wanna have an in depth conversation take it to politics but there’s nothing wrong with this conversation in its current form and there is no reason to take it to politics. 

I’d put this in a box but it’s being a dick on my phone. Pretend there’s a green box here please. 

Edit: if you want to discuss why trump does or does not suck (he does) take that to politics. Why Whitney sucks for supporting him is fine here, why trump sucks needs to go to politics.