The 2017 March for Life

[polecat]

1 hour ago, Cartmann99 said:

How come the pro-life folks don't protest in front of fertility clinics? If a fertilized egg is the same thing as a newborn in their eyes, then shouldn't they be screaming about all those poor frozen babies?

 

And when those fertilized eggs aren't used or wanted anymore, guess what happens to them? Here's a hint for our pro-life visitor: They don't just keep them frozen for eternity. 

[CrazyLurkerLady]

I have kind of a weird perspective on the issue. Until very recently (as in last year) I referred to myself as a pro-life feminist. I believed (and still kinda do believe) that life does begin at conception BUT I did not believe that anything good would be accomplished by banning abortion because we don't have the social support networks in place to help women with unexpected pregnancies. I also fully supported abortion for medical reasons, all birth control, and comprehensive sex ed.

Oddly enough, it was a Pinterest post that moved me entirely into the pro-choice camp. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of how you can't force someone to use their body for someone else, even if the other person will die without it. You can't force someone to give up their kidney to save someone else's life and you can't force them to give up their uterus either. So IMO, it really doesn't matter at all when life begins. Even if it DOES begin at conception, you still can't force someone to give up a part of their body for someone else's  benefit. Having it explained to me that way just hit me like a ton of bricks and just made so much sense. 

Side note - my 6th grader came home with a sex ed permission slip stating that they portray abstinence as the "only acceptable choice," which makes me SUPER nervous. I live in a midwestern state that legally allows comprehensive sex ed, but it doesn't look like that's what he's gonna get (this area is kinda gentrified, which doesn't help). It hasn't happened yet, but he's been informed that I'm going to be asking a LOT of questions about what they're telling him when it does.

[dramallama]

1 hour ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

Oddly enough, it was a Pinterest post that moved me entirely into the pro-choice camp. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of how you can't force someone to use their body for someone else, even if the other person will die without it. You can't force someone to give up their kidney to save someone else's life and you can't force them to give up their uterus either. So IMO, it really doesn't matter at all when life begins. Even if it DOES begin at conception, you still can't force someone to give up a part of their body for someone else's  benefit. Having it explained to me that way just hit me like a ton of bricks and just made so much sense. 

This is exactly why I'm pro-choice.  There is quite simply no other situation in which the government compels a person to give up bodily autonomy for the sake of someone else.  Once a child is out of the womb anyone can care for it, it no longer relies on literally being hooked up to one specific person's blood supply and living within their body to survive, and so the situation changes.  Using food, money, electricity, other resources that anyone can provide is quite different from living inside of another person's body.  

[Toothfairy]

16 hours ago, smittykins said:

"Less than 1% of abortions are due to rape, so it's a moot point."

#Itonlyhastohappenonce

(the pregnancy, not the abortion)

Omg. The way they want to even force rape victims to carry to term. The baby is a blessing? Just choose adoption.  Do you know what rape does to you? It's with you for life. I'm so upset at the rape comments I'm reading. 

Remember former Miss America Teresa Scanlan? You know she is a Christian, attended Patrick Henry college and saved herself for marriage. But Jesus gave her a virgin birth. 

https://m.facebook.com/378812152175324/posts/1305457592844104

7 hours ago, CrazyLurkerLady said:

I have kind of a weird perspective on the issue. Until very recently (as in last year) I referred to myself as a pro-life feminist. I believed (and still kinda do believe) that life does begin at conception BUT I did not believe that anything good would be accomplished by banning abortion because we don't have the social support networks in place to help women with unexpected pregnancies. I also fully supported abortion for medical reasons, all birth control, and comprehensive sex ed.

Oddly enough, it was a Pinterest post that moved me entirely into the pro-choice camp. I don't remember the exact wording, but it was something along the lines of how you can't force someone to use their body for someone else, even if the other person will die without it. You can't force someone to give up their kidney to save someone else's life and you can't force them to give up their uterus either. So IMO, it really doesn't matter at all when life begins. Even if it DOES begin at conception, you still can't force someone to give up a part of their body for someone else's  benefit. Having it explained to me that way just hit me like a ton of bricks and just made so much sense. 

Side note - my 6th grader came home with a sex ed permission slip stating that they portray abstinence as the "only acceptable choice," which makes me SUPER nervous. I live in a midwestern state that legally allows comprehensive sex ed, but it doesn't look like that's what he's gonna get (this area is kinda gentrified, which doesn't help). It hasn't happened yet, but he's been informed that I'm going to be asking a LOT of questions about what they're telling him when it does.

Mary was abstinence. She still got pregnant. 

7 hours ago, polecat said:

And when those fertilized eggs aren't used or wanted anymore, guess what happens to them? Here's a hint for our pro-life visitor: They don't just keep them frozen for eternity. 

Don't forget about fetal tissue research. You know how we find cures and shit. 

8 hours ago, Cartmann99 said:

How come the pro-life folks don't protest in front of fertility clinics? If a fertilized egg is the same thing as a newborn in their eyes, then shouldn't they be screaming about all those poor frozen babies?

Because it's an embryo. That's not life. Even though life begins at conception. There's also a bill trying to ban ivf because life begins at conception. 

[Meridae]

Just because something is alive doesn't really mean it's living, though. Take amoebas- they're alive in a technical sense but have zero concept of the world around them. A very basic form of "life" does begin at conception, and I don't think anyone would disagree with that, but it simply isn't on par with living.

[Toothfairy]

10 hours ago, Meridae said:

"You can't force me to foster and raise a child! It's not my problem their mother is a druggie! That's immoral and wrong and violates my rights! The government can't force me to be a parent against my will!"

...yeah, EXACTLY...  

Omg. This exactly. "You can't force me. "It's not my problem".

 

My favorites

"foster kids have life. Give the unborn a chance. Life in foster care is better than no life"

 

"I can't care for a drug addicted baby ,teen who runs away, or a screaming 2yo keeping me up all night". 

 

"I want my own kids first".

 

"Foster kids aren't my problem. Women should keep their legs closed".

 

Gee isn't choice beautiful? Imagine if we forced everyone to be a foster parent. 

[Toothfairy]

15 hours ago, Jana814 said:

What the March of Life people don't get is that many women who have abortions do it because they feel as though it is what is best for them. What if the child was going to have a long-term medical problems and the woman feels they can't deal with it. 

Jesus gave you a baby with a disability and it won't  live beyond a few weeks. Choose life. 

 

 

Ok. First let me tell you how fucking shitty our government treats disabled people. They treat people with disabilities like crap. Do you know how hard it is to get services? Especially in school? Do you know how hard it is to get insurance to clear shit? Including the paperwork. I've fostered kids with disabilities. It's hard. Really hard. Sometimes the child needs 24/7 care. Sometimes they'll need life long care. And it's even sadder nobody wants to foster or adopt a child with a disability. So they just sit in foster care until they age out and get put in a long term facility. 

 

What's funny? I see a lot of prolifers without a disabled child. It's easier to say choose life when you're not the one caring for that life. 

[Toothfairy]

14 hours ago, polecat said:

I would like to know where that "less than one percent of abortions are due to rape" stat comes from. Perhaps for adult women (MAYBE, possibly, and even that's highly unlikely, imo), but there is no way that is an accurate number for teens because of the nature of teen pregnancy. More than half of teen moms have been sexually abused, and a substantial number of them are pregnant by an adult male. That's the very definition of rape. 

Unless they're saying that teens never choose abortion, I call complete and utter BS on that stat.

Maybe instead of worrying about what women are doing with their uteri, men can make a bigger effort to keep their penises to themselves. 

Rape is an underreported crime. Many rape victims don't reportand don't tell. My daughter kept her rape to herself for years. She didn't tell anyone. She came to me from foster care and it wasn't in her casefile. Finally one day she opened up to me. She didn't even consider it as rape. She kept defending it and apologized.  I'm happy she told me so she can finally heal. But it still hurts her. The rape comments triggered her. I told her to stay off social media. It make me so upset we live in this type of society. You're basically defending rape and giving rapists more power. 

[catlady]

46 minutes ago, Toothfairy said:

Ok. First let me tell you how fucking shitty our government treats disabled people. They treat people with disabilities like crap. Do you know how hard it is to get services? Especially in school? Do you know how hard it is to get insurance to clear shit? Including the paperwork. I've fostered kids with disabilities. It's hard. Really hard. Sometimes the child needs 24/7 care. Sometimes they'll need life long care. And it's even sadder nobody wants to foster or adopt a child with a disability. So they just sit in foster care until they age out and get put in a long term facility. 

 

What's funny? I see a lot of prolifers without a disabled child. It's easier to say choose life when you're not the one caring for that life. 

i want to like this about a million times.  thank you, ToothFairy.

[smittykins]

And then there's "A disabled child has SO much to teach us!"  Speaking as someone with a disability myself, I just love being thought of as an object lesson and not, y'know, an actual person. 

[DutchGirl]

I can not get past the irony of a movement that calls it self pro-life and wants to execute (so, realy kill) the women having had an abortion. How can that be pro-life ?

[polecat]

3 hours ago, DutchGirl said:

I can not get past the irony of a movement that calls it self pro-life and wants to execute (so, realy kill) the women having had an abortion. How can that be pro-life ?

 

 

This is justified by calling one life innocent and the other guilty. They're pro-*innocent* life. I suppose this is also their "get out of jail free" card for every other life they choose not to defend, from Syrian child refugees running for their lives to Mexican migrant farmworkers who cross the border long enough to harvest crops before heading back to their own country. All of those lives are "guilty" and so not worth defending. 

This always bothered me growing up in this world (the fundy, pro-life world, I mean), and it bugs me even more now -- the idea that they, and only they, are the ones who decide who has the right to live and who doesn't. 

 

eta: And to clarify, I don't think any of these "guilty" lives are actually guilty of anything. It's a grotesque way of looking at the world. Sometimes, my writing is cold and callous when I'm angry -- but I certainly don't intend it to be hurtful.

[smittykins]

I've also heard that as a reason many "pro-lifers" support the death penalty--one kills the guilty, the other kills the innocent.(Of course, no one in their world is ever unjustly condemned.)

[dramallama]

7 hours ago, DutchGirl said:

I can not get past the irony of a movement that calls it self pro-life and wants to execute (so, realy kill) the women having had an abortion. How can that be pro-life ?

To steal a chant from many marches, "Pro-life is a lie, you don't care if women die" - pro-birth would be a more accurate term.  After they're born, suddenly many of the same people don't give a shit if that same child has food or clean water and air or healthcare or education or if the government kills it.

[KnittingOwl]

On 1/27/2017 at 8:30 AM, Gabe said:

The Morning after pill the Abortion Pill...

In a consistently pro-life position, only actions that destroy a united sperm and egg are considered wrong. Thus while I might have a problem with a hormonal birth control option from a religious point of view. It does not destroy a human life and is therefore not murder.

You are incorrect. The rate of pregnancy for women who took Plan B after ovulation was the same as women who did not. 

This article is a good review of the studies done on this:

http://ec.princeton.edu/questions/ecwork.html

 

eta: I'm late to the party with this, but I'm leaving it. I'm tired of all the lies about Plan B and EC

[Terrie]

Guys, I think Gabe gave up. Apparently, we were just supposed to be in awe of his Greater Understanding (TM), instead of coming up with facts.

[nausicaa]

How on earth did I miss Gabe showing his ass?

At this point I do think we should assume he is not who he claims to be unless he proves his identity to the admin. This dude is acting like such an insufferable, uneducated ass, I feel bad for the real Gabe if this is an impostor.  

Gabe is normally a bit more measured than this and able to defend his points. But he really just did nothing but throw out some fake statistics, made up science, and ad hominem attacks. And he never even tried to prove his claim of there being birth control methods that function like abortions. Even operating under the belief that life begins when sperm meets the egg, I can't think of a single BC that destroys the fertilized egg. Not condoms, IUDs, diaphragms.

Also, believe me, my family knows that Plan B is not an abortion pill. I've got the tow-headed nephew to prove it. 

On 1/27/2017 at 9:34 PM, ViolaSebastian said:

Good thing @Gabe is here to finally give us ladies the anatomical and reproductive education we all so sorely needed.

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