Tabitha Paine & Tim Robertson Engagement (includes sexual assault discussion)

[ViolaSebastian]

I truly believe that people can change and start their lives over. That said, it usually starts with taking responsibility for one's actions, being actively involved in real counseling for a significant amount of time, attending some sort of addiction support group (sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.), self-reflection, and expressing sincere regret for that one so badly wronged another person. I have yet to hear or read about Tim doing any of those things. If he had come out and said "I am truly sorry that my actions hurt someone else. I did something very wrong. I have done/am doing XYZ so that I will not do this again," I'd have much more sympathy towards him. 

[Kittikatz]

Well, I've just been triggered to hell and back.

Yes, people can make stupid choices and they can choose to change, but for me, anyone whose moment of "oh shit*t, I've fucked up" epiphany comes during or after their rape trial and appears to be more centred avoiding the consequences to themselves rather than the pain they caused their victim is suspect in my world. 

I think Tabitha Paine has been saddled with quite the loser. I wonder if dear old dad was sick of supporting her and sold her to the first available Christian male, or if she actually choose this guy, and if so how much does she really know or comprehend? 

Can't blame Erin for not wanting to wade into this cluster£uck. I wish she/Chad would say something, but I can see there is a huge risk of blighting family relationships in this kind of situation. Especially if Dr. Paine and/or Tabitha is bound and determined to do this.

Oh well, I have a feeling that she's going to wind up married to Tim. I just hope that he treats her okay and she doesn't wind up mistreated/abused or regretting her marriage.

[fish_ca]

7 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

My VERY favorite part of TR's "testimony" was how "God took me off the sex offender registry"..... so much so that I think it should be a thread count title.

Mine too. If I pray hard enough will God take my mortgage away? In fundie way of thinking: 'of course'

[JermajestyDuggar]

I understand Erin not commenting. I'm not semi famous and I would NEVER post anything on social media about my SIL's love life! I am surprised people actually thought she would talk about this publicly. 

[justmy2cents]

25 minutes ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I understand Erin not commenting. I'm not semi famous and I would NEVER post anything on social media about my SIL's love life! I am surprised people actually thought she would talk about this publicly. 

I would understand her not commenting also but I do find it interesting that in her reply she is almost encouraging the person to go to Tabitha's FB page.  She could have just said I don't speak for Tabitha or I don't comment on my SIL's private life and left it at that. Makes me wonder how she really feels about the entire situation. She may also be trying to come across as sharing her fans ambivalence about the match so people don't turn on her.  When she replied about not supporting Gothard and not belonging to ATI she was being truthful since Bill is no longer a part of IBLP and her kids are too young to homeschool.  She didn't renounce IBLP. Smoke and mirrors.

[JermajestyDuggar]

13 minutes ago, justmy2cents said:

I would understand her not commenting also but I do find it interesting that in her reply she is almost encouraging the person to go to Tabitha's FB page.  She could have just said I don't speak for Tabitha or I don't comment on my SIL's private life and left it at that. Makes me wonder how she really feels about the entire situation. She may also be trying to come across as sharing her fans ambivalence about the match so people don't turn on her.  When she replied about not supporting Gothard and not belonging to ATI she was being truthful since Bill is no longer a part of IBLP and her kids are too young to homeschool.  She didn't renounce IBLP. Smoke and mirrors.

She probably just wants to keep The drama off her page. It seems to me that Erin just wants to avoid all drama and keep her page "Erin Paine perfect." She really seems to love keeping up the perfect fundie facade. Which I have always found annoying. 

[Dandruff]

As I (think I) said earlier, I believe Chad may have helped set Tabitha and Tim up.  He's her brother, he and Tim both live in TN, and I find it hard to imagine that the meeting between Tabitha and Tim was random.  There must, IMO, have been some connection between Tim and Chad and/or the Bateses - maybe Crown, maybe church, maybe someone had some remodeling done.  If so, then I can especially see why Erin doesn't want to comment on the situation.  I really wonder when the TN folks found out about "something that happened"...and what the explanation was at that time.

[nausicaa]

15 hours ago, ViolaSebastian said:

I truly believe that people can change and start their lives over. That said, it usually starts with taking responsibility for one's actions, being actively involved in real counseling for a significant amount of time, attending some sort of addiction support group (sex, drugs, alcohol, etc.), self-reflection, and expressing sincere regret for that one so badly wronged another person. I have yet to hear or read about Tim doing any of those things. If he had come out and said "I am truly sorry that my actions hurt someone else. I did something very wrong. I have done/am doing XYZ so that I will not do this again," I'd have much more sympathy towards him. 

I feel the same way. 

Also, after all this happened, the fact that he was drawn to a movement that permanently victimizes women, denies them their agency, and has ass-backwards teachings about sexual assault (how short was that skirt???) shows me just how "redeemed" he's been and how he views women. If he really had changed, he of all people would see how damaging these teachings are. 

Let's all not forget: he is a forty-something grown ass independent man who is choosing to marry an incredibly sheltered 31 year old SAHD who is denied the same rights and freedoms of other women her age. 

So yeah, I don't know Tim Robertson personally, but from over here, his intentions seem pretty damn clear. 

[GeoBQn]

This whole thing is making me think of an article I read about in Vox.  A woman started dating a man who had served 10 years in prison for 2nd-degree murder.  He swore he had changed and learned from his mistakes.  His parole officer and psychologist did not consider him at risk to reoffend.  One month after they got married, the man raped and kidnapped two women.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/13/10737742/husband-rapist

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

10 hours ago, fish_ca said:

Mine too. If I pray hard enough will God take my mortgage away? In fundie way of thinking: 'of course'

Silly fish, fundies don't believe in mortgages. They pray for their houses to eventuate debt free and live with their parents without a job while they wait for god to provide 

[Lurky]

48 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Also, after all this happened, the fact that he was drawn to a movement that permanently victimizes women, denies them their agency, and has ass-backwards teachings about sexual assault (how short was that skirt???) shows me just how "redeemed" he's been and how he views women. If he really had changed, he of all people would see how damaging these teachings are.

I hadn't even considered this aspect.  He could have joined any kind of church, from liberal Unitarian to conservative Southern Baptist, but he picked an über-Fundy one. 

I do think it might be because the average Christian church is not so blasé about "you've said the words, so we forgive you".  I know some Protestants criticise Catholicism for their approach to confession and forgiveness, but there you're expected to do penance to earn forgiveness.  

My best friend's parents is a Pastors' Kid, and we've been talking about this.  He said that his dad was asked for advice about a children's Sunday School teacher, who'd been sending inappropriate messages to teenage girls in the church.  His advice was IF he accepted what he was doing was wrong, AND got help to address what he was doing, AND was stopped from working with kids in the church, and other things like that, he could stay part of the church, but if not, no.   My friend's dad was criticised in some quarters for not taking the "he's said he's sorry so it never happened" approach - but he was absolutely clear that forgiveness is not wiping someone's slate clean, just because they've said they've changed.

[Coconut Flan]

9 minutes ago, Lurky said:

I know some Protestants criticise Catholicism for their approach to confession and forgiveness, but there you're expected to do penance to earn forgiveness.  

I have to say no.  The forgiveness is freely given.  Reparation for the sin, however, is necessary for the worldly portion. 

[fish_ca]

11 minutes ago, BlessingsVonFundiePants said:

Silly fish, fundies don't believe in mortgages. They pray for their houses to eventuate debt free and live with their parents without a job while they wait for god to provide 

Stupid me....it was then the biggest mistake of my life when I moved out of my parents' house to live with a guy. What a sinner I am.. will you forgive me? it seems it works in such cases

[singsingsing]

44 minutes ago, GeoBQn said:

This whole thing is making me think of an article I read about in Vox.  A woman started dating a man who had served 10 years in prison for 2nd-degree murder.  He swore he had changed and learned from his mistakes.  His parole officer and psychologist did not consider him at risk to reoffend.  One month after they got married, the man raped and kidnapped two women.

http://www.vox.com/2016/1/13/10737742/husband-rapist

Yeah. I hate to be cynical, and I do always try to give people the benefit of the doubt (often to a fault), and believe that people truly can change their ways, but it can be really, really hard to shake deeply ingrained behaviours or modes of relating to the world.

My favourite story: young, privileged white guy gets convicted of dealing drugs. He swears up and down that he made a stupid mistake, fell in with the wrong crowd, would never ever ever EVER dream of doing such a thing again, that he's truly learned his lesson. He trots out like a hundred character witnesses: family members, friends, employers, etc. etc. who all swear up and down that he's just a wonderful young man, a class act, a model citizen, and they echo him: he just made one really dumb decision, and he learned his lesson the hard way, so please go easy on our poor little lamb. The kid starts his sentence, and two seconds later he gets busted for dealing drugs in prison.

[BlessingsVonFundiePants]

51 minutes ago, fish_ca said:

Stupid me....it was then the biggest mistake of my life when I moved out of my parents' house to live with a guy. What a sinner I am.. will you forgive me? it seems it works in such cases

I forgive you! I myself left home at 18 and have lived alone and supported myself for 17 years without a headship or a father for counsel. All this independent thought and freedom has really messed with the path of godly womanhood. I only manage to keep sweet for about two hours a month and I may have told a mansplainer at the hardware store to "f### off" when he tried teach me how to use a saw-horse. 

[Snarkle Motion]

3 hours ago, singsingsing said:

Yeah. I hate to be cynical, and I do always try to give people the benefit of the doubt (often to a fault), and believe that people truly can change their ways, but it can be really, really hard to shake deeply ingrained behaviours or modes of relating to the world.

My favourite story: young, privileged white guy gets convicted of dealing drugs. He swears up and down that he made a stupid mistake, fell in with the wrong crowd, would never ever ever EVER dream of doing such a thing again, that he's truly learned his lesson. He trots out like a hundred character witnesses: family members, friends, employers, etc. etc. who all swear up and down that he's just a wonderful young man, a class act, a model citizen, and they echo him: he just made one really dumb decision, and he learned his lesson the hard way, so please go easy on our poor little lamb. The kid starts his sentence, and two seconds later he gets busted for dealing drugs in prison.

Isn't that literally the plot of The Producers? 

[HomeschooledHeartThrob]

On 1/25/2017 at 9:16 PM, Dandruff said:

Ah...so gravity is to blame.

Or the victim. That minor "wanted it" is the excuse I get. Or they came onto THEM and they couldn't help themselves.....

[Lurky]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I have to say no.  The forgiveness is freely given.  Reparation for the sin, however, is necessary for the worldly portion. 

Ah, thank you for the clarification, I appreciate it.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

For those who think that "I fell over her and accidentally penetrated her" would never stand in a court of law 

 

[Carol]

There is nothing about christian patriarchy that is healthy.  Nothing.  For anyone.  The damage it inflicts on women through guilt, shame, repression and control is with them their whole lives and passed down to their daughters as the cycle is replicated.   

And it has nothing to do with Jesus.

[kinphilly]

On 1/10/2017 at 2:31 PM, Smash! said:

I'm not familiar with the sexual offender registry. So is it sure that he raped someone or could it be other things? Either way it's not at all ok what he did.
And they marry off their sheltered daughter to such a man? Just unbelievable.

Given what people posted about this particular case it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT I just wanted to point out that technically a high school senior who was redshirted as a kid (so is 19 graduating) could be in trouble for consensual sex with a 16 year old and end up on a registry.     Regardless if you think it's a good idea for teens to be sexually active, I don't think many reasonable people would really see that as a crime ...

[TeamDefraudinSquad]

The sexual repression in these environments especially is so unhealthy. This is not an excuse to sexually assault someone by any means, but at the same time, it seems like telling young men masturbation is sinful increases the risk of sexual assault in these fundie circles, when paired with the patriarchal ideas of women being the gatekeepers of sexual morality. 

I dated a Mormon in High School who was raised to believe masturbating was a sin. He told me that the "handful of times" he masturbated (lol "handful" ) he went straight to the bishop to "ask for help." I told him how much I disapproved of this, but was also hesitant to pressure him into abandoning his values. Well, ten years later (thankfully long, long after we broke up), some friends of mine found him on the sex offender registry in his new state, for sexually assaulting a child under 14. 

Did Timmy boy really say he accidentally penetrated the woman when he fell over drunk on her? SMH so hard at that one. That fucker is lucky the rest of his community appears to be as repressed/ignorant about how sex works as he is, if they pardoned him based on that explanation. 

[AmazonGrace]

54 minutes ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

Did Timmy boy really say he accidentally penetrated the woman when he fell over drunk on her? SMH so hard at that one. That fucker is lucky the rest of his community appears to be as repressed/ignorant about how sex works as he is, if they pardoned him based on that explanation. 

No, he claimed it was consensual and then she lied.

[Carm_88]

1 minute ago, AmazonGrace said:

No, he claimed it was consensual and then she lied.

Because she didn't want her boyfriend to find out that they had sex. 

[Lurky]

3 hours ago, kinphilly said:

Given what people posted about this particular case it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT I just wanted to point out that technically a high school senior who was redshirted as a kid (so is 19 graduating) could be in trouble for consensual sex with a 16 year old and end up on a registry.     Regardless if you think it's a good idea for teens to be sexually active, I don't think many reasonable people would really see that as a crime ...

Given that the arrest warrant and details of his crime were posted upthread, this is NOT a case of high school sweethearts getting caught in a nightmare scenario. 

I genuinely don't understand why people rush to defend sexual abusers anyway, but respectfully, I'd recommend you read the thread before trying to tell us we are all wrong for condemning him/trying to find loopholes for why he isn't such a bad guy after all.  I would bet cash money that had you read what he's done, you'd be horrified too.  And remember, this isn't "he said, she said", or "it sounded like he assaulted someone" - he pleaded guilty to a serious crime.