Tabitha Paine & Tim Robertson Engagement (includes sexual assault discussion)

[FleeJanaFree]

4 hours ago, kinphilly said:

Given what people posted about this particular case it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT I just wanted to point out that technically a high school senior who was redshirted as a kid (so is 19 graduating) could be in trouble for consensual sex with a 16 year old and end up on a registry.     Regardless if you think it's a good idea for teens to be sexually active, I don't think many reasonable people would really see that as a crime ...

Kinphilly, I downvoted you and *then* realized what you were saying. (My bad) To anyone else confused, kinphilly isn't saying Tim is on a black and white sex offended registry despite the possibility of something in a gray area. (I.e. "He's innocent!) She/he was responding to another posters question about what the sex offender registry is. She/ he is correct you can get on this list for things other than sex. People have gotten on it for urinating in public.

 

tim,however, is a sad sack of shit rapist.

[habert]

I haven't read this whole thread but I remember when the story came out about a week ago and his mother saying something like "kids do the craziest things, it was a misunderstanding" but in 2000 he would have been 30 so....

[Lurky]

24 minutes ago, FleeJanaFree said:

Kinphilly, I downvoted you and *then* realized what you were saying. (My bad) To anyone else confused, kinphilly isn't saying Tim is on a black and white sex offended registry despite the possibility of something in a gray area. (I.e. "He's innocent!) She/he was responding to another posters question about what the sex offender registry is. She/ he is correct you can get on this list for things other than sex. People have gotten on it for urinating in public.

If Kinphilly was really all about explaining the truth about the Sex Offenders Registry, they would have included explanations of the vast majority of people on it who are there for sex crimes. 

Whenever someone only focuses on the very rare outlier cases, and does that next to something like Kinphilly's direct quote of "it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT...", about a case where the person we're talking about pleaded guilty to a serious sexual assault, I think it's fair make assumptions about their attitude.

I mean, I would also fight back if Kinphilly had replied to that question by saying something like "it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT I just wanted to point out that technically someone like the villain in the Silence of the Lambs or Jack the Ripper could end up on a registry" as an example of why everyone on it should be locked up for life or something, because of course the Registry contains a spectrum of crimes.  But the fact someone only talks about one end of the spectrum is super-unhelpful, and should be called out.  

[Carm_88]

12 minutes ago, habert said:

I haven't read this whole thread but I remember when the story came out about a week ago and his mother saying something like "kids do the craziest things, it was a misunderstanding" but in 2000 he would have been 30 so....

Oh believe me, people do crazy things in these cases. They surely stand by their people. My cousin is a teacher at a private Catholic school and so was her husband. Her husband was a well loved, well respected teacher at that school. It came out in 2009, that he was accused of luring a student. Basically, sending really racy texts and being completely inappropriate with an underage student, basically the age of his two sons. The whole school community came together and said that she was a slut and a liar, the worst person in the world. He did do it. She had the texts, there's no denying that. He tried to throw his sons under the bus. Perverts will lie, that's what they do and the people closest to them will stand by them. I have no idea why. 

[laPapessaGiovanna]

18 hours ago, TeamDefraudinSquad said:

The sexual repression in these environments especially is so unhealthy. This is not an excuse to sexually assault someone by any means, but at the same time, it seems like telling young men masturbation is sinful increases the risk of sexual assault in these fundie circles, when paired with the patriarchal ideas of women being the gatekeepers of sexual morality. 

I dated a Mormon in High School who was raised to believe masturbating was a sin. He told me that the "handful of times" he masturbated (lol "handful" ) he went straight to the bishop to "ask for help." I told him how much I disapproved of this, but was also hesitant to pressure him into abandoning his values. Well, ten years later (thankfully long, long after we broke up), some friends of mine found him on the sex offender registry in his new state, for sexually assaulting a child under 14. 

Did Timmy boy really say he accidentally penetrated the woman when he fell over drunk on her? SMH so hard at that one. That fucker is lucky the rest of his community appears to be as repressed/ignorant about how sex works as he is, if they pardoned him based on that explanation. 

No. He said that he was drunk when he found himself "in a situation with" his flat mate. Vagueness and no admission that she didn't give consent. 

[Suz8710]

I try to keep up with this thread but may have missed this. I just noticed Tabitha's facebook has been taken down. I may be reading into it too much, but I think that's a good thing. Leaving it up in my opinion just seems awfully arrogant or at best indifferent with all that's come out about Tim. She could have just locked it down with only her approved friends being able to interact with her - but didn't. Maybe it's not that intersting, but I think it's something.

[JermajestyDuggar]

On 2/3/2017 at 8:10 PM, Carm_88 said:

Oh believe me, people do crazy things in these cases. They surely stand by their people. My cousin is a teacher at a private Catholic school and so was her husband. Her husband was a well loved, well respected teacher at that school. It came out in 2009, that he was accused of luring a student. Basically, sending really racy texts and being completely inappropriate with an underage student, basically the age of his two sons. The whole school community came together and said that she was a slut and a liar, the worst person in the world. He did do it. She had the texts, there's no denying that. He tried to throw his sons under the bus. Perverts will lie, that's what they do and the people closest to them will stand by them. I have no idea why. 

I know why people around them will back them. Because it's a reflection on them. His mom doesn't want to admit she raised a rapist. The teacher you knows wife doesn't want to admit she married a pervert. 

Its actually about self preservation. I get it but it still pisses me off so bad. I always applaud the parents and spouses of these sexual offenders that don't support them or try to cover up their deeds.

[Smash!]

I know why people around them will back them. Because it's a reflection on them. His mom doesn't want to admit she raised a rapist. The teacher you knows wife doesn't want to admit she married a pervert. 
Its actually about self preservation.

This. As a mother/wife/friend you don't want to admit that a person you think highly of and love so much does/did such awful things. It hurts to be deceived from such a person. I get that.
But it doesn't help anyone to deny it. Let's be real, human abysses are deep and you never know what's behind someone's mask. That's the real tragedy I think.

[Snarkle Motion]

On February 3, 2017 at 6:57 PM, Lurky said:

If Kinphilly was really all about explaining the truth about the Sex Offenders Registry, they would have included explanations of the vast majority of people on it who are there for sex crimes. 

Whenever someone only focuses on the very rare outlier cases, and does that next to something like Kinphilly's direct quote of "it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT...", about a case where the person we're talking about pleaded guilty to a serious sexual assault, I think it's fair make assumptions about their attitude.

I mean, I would also fight back if Kinphilly had replied to that question by saying something like "it sounds like he assaulted someone BUT I just wanted to point out that technically someone like the villain in the Silence of the Lambs or Jack the Ripper could end up on a registry" as an example of why everyone on it should be locked up for life or something, because of course the Registry contains a spectrum of crimes.  But the fact someone only talks about one end of the spectrum is super-unhelpful, and should be called out.  

I don't have exact statistics at the moment but I remember reading the sex offender registry is an extremely flawed system. Not defender sex offenders but so many people who commit these crimes are not registered. And there are more cases than you would think that are "gray" or not necessarily violent crimes that I don't think it's fair to call it "rare." People having consensual sex on a beach in public (at night when they thought no one was around) I think was an example from orange is the new black. Public urination near a school is another one. And there was a pretty high profile case of an18 year old teen who had consensual oral sex with his 15-16 year old girl friend and videotaped it on his phone so it was technically child pornography.  

My point is that the registry isn't perfect and I do think in general we should be willing to hear people's perspectives about what happened. That said, he made it abundantly clear that he is a terrible person who committed assault and has absolutely no remorse for his actions. 

[GoneDownTheRabbitHole]

Would there be any point at which they would call off the engagement/marriage? 

[Carm_88]

11 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know why people around them will back them. Because it's a reflection on them. His mom doesn't want to admit she raised a rapist. The teacher you knows wife doesn't want to admit she married a pervert. 

Its actually about self preservation. I get it but it still pisses me off so bad. I always applaud the parents and spouses of these sexual offenders that don't support them or try to cover up their deeds.

Oh it most definitely is about that. Though, I never know how they do it. I would never sleep again because all I would be able to think is that they will do it again. It's only a matter of time and when they do, will they get caught? In my cousin's case, her husband is just ugh now. She should kick him out and make his ass take responsibility for it, never mind pleading innocence. Why are perverts so full of innocence? Don't they realize we can see through their thick cloud of bullshit? 

I hope that they call off the engagement but I doubt that would ever happen. 

[Bad Wolf]

In fundieland, is it only the woman who can call off the engagement? I thought I'd read that somewhere.

[Four is Enough]

12 hours ago, JermajestyDuggar said:

I know why people around them will back them. Because it's a reflection on them. His mom doesn't want to admit she raised a rapist. The teacher you knows wife doesn't want to admit she married a pervert. 

Its actually about self preservation. I get it but it still pisses me off so bad. I always applaud the parents and spouses of these sexual offenders that don't support them or try to cover up their deeds.

It's not completely about self preservation. At first, you simply can NOT believe that someone you love, that someone you raised, could even conceive of such an act, let alone perform it. So at first, you DO support your loved one, because you simply can't believe it.

In our case, we didn't know the people accusing our child. So of course we defended and called them liars. 

11 hours ago, Smash! said:

 

This. As a mother/wife/friend you don't want to admit that a person you think highly of and love so much does/did such awful things. It hurts to be deceived from such a person. I get that.
But it doesn't help anyone to deny it. Let's be real, human abysses are deep and you never know what's behind someone's mask. That's the real tragedy I think.

 

I think you have to look at how long the denial goes on. There came a point in our child's therapy when we knew, we were sure, that these events had actually occurred, and if therapy was to be helpful at all, we had to embrace that, accept that, and then move forward from that new starting line.  It may have seemed a Long Time to people on the outside looking in at us, but it was a terrible thing to have to internalize. There was a whole period of time in limbo, while things were "investigated", then court, then assignment to therapy, etc.. before therapy even began.

 

Now, I am NOT defending these people. I don't know them, and I doubt very much that they will change their stance on something that happened umpteen years ago. Our therapy, individual, group, family, residential, took less than four years start to finish, when our child was declared "low risk to reoffend".  I know the time has been much longer for that for this family, and I believe the offense was as an adult to begin with, not as a child or teenager. 

All I'm saying is... some people do begin in denial, probably most. They need time to process what's happened. Judge them after it's for sure they should know what really happened.. and then look at their behavior. 

 

[Snarkle Motion]

1 hour ago, Bad Wolf said:

In fundieland, is it only the woman who can call off the engagement? I thought I'd read that somewhere.

I'm sure if the guy found out his fiancé violated modesty or purity rules in the past that he had been unaware about when he proposed he is allowed to break an engagement. 

[JermajestyDuggar]

1 hour ago, Four is Enough said:

It's not completely about self preservation. At first, you simply can NOT believe that someone you love, that someone you raised, could even conceive of such an act, let alone perform it. So at first, you DO support your loved one, because you simply can't believe it.

In our case, we didn't know the people accusing our child. So of course we defended and called them liars. 

I think you have to look at how long the denial goes on. There came a point in our child's therapy when we knew, we were sure, that these events had actually occurred, and if therapy was to be helpful at all, we had to embrace that, accept that, and then move forward from that new starting line.  It may have seemed a Long Time to people on the outside looking in at us, but it was a terrible thing to have to internalize. There was a whole period of time in limbo, while things were "investigated", then court, then assignment to therapy, etc.. before therapy even began.

 

Now, I am NOT defending these people. I don't know them, and I doubt very much that they will change their stance on something that happened umpteen years ago. Our therapy, individual, group, family, residential, took less than four years start to finish, when our child was declared "low risk to reoffend".  I know the time has been much longer for that for this family, and I believe the offense was as an adult to begin with, not as a child or teenager. 

All I'm saying is... some people do begin in denial, probably most. They need time to process what's happened. Judge them after it's for sure they should know what really happened.. and then look at their behavior. 

 

Denial is a defense mechanism. Which is used for self preservation. How long it lasts is usually prettytelling. 

[Flossie]

2 hours ago, Bad Wolf said:

In fundieland, is it only the woman who can call off the engagement? I thought I'd read that somewhere.

Of course the woman could call off the engagement.  She only has to tell her future husband that sh's changed her mind.  In the real world, that is.

For a fundy bride-to-be, it depends on the situation.  She might be allowed to call things off herself.  She could tell her fiance she's changed her mind and hope that he has enough maturity to go along with her decision and merely say that after more prayer and consideration they have decided to cancel their wedding, or postpone it, and then quietly move on.

The woman might appeal to her father and ask him to pray some more on the matter.  She might enlist her mother to move the father to cancel the wedding.

The woman might resort to passive aggressive tactics to get the groom to call off the wedding.  That's a longshot, since these women are raised to do what the men in their lives tell them to do.  But the woman could refuse further contact with the future groom, refuse to partake in wedding planning, and generally being a giant pain in the ass about it all.  At that point, most grooms would back off and call it a day, unless they were super controlling or being pushed by their own family to go through with it.

Or the woman could flee.  Go to other family members who aren't so commited to the whole thing or possibly find a friend who would help.  That's probably not going to happen.

I do think that the woman can call off the wedding, but it's more difficult in their culture.  That's why so many of these fundy weddings that were pretty much engineered by the parents seem to be more rigid, like the new man and wife are playing roles instead of actually being in love.

[SweetFellowshipper]

Just read the whole thread. Holy triggers, Batman! 

I really, *really* hoped this was a misunderstanding, or something at the more, IMO, ludicrous end of the sex offense list, like hiring an of-age sex worker consensually or peeing in public while drunk. But it's far worse than I even imagined, down to the usual disgusting "she was a slut" excuse and 14 paragraphs about Jesus as a smokescreen. 

So grossed out. 

[AmazonGrace]

It's definitely going to be more complicated to break off an engagement if it's something that Daddy prayed about and God told him that this is the guy your daughter should marry. You gotta have some serious balls to go tell Daddy, "hey you and God were wrong about this dude",

[AlternativeVoice]

This is just a hot Cracker Barrel mess if I ever did see one ! I just can't. He looks creepy....so does she.I just can't. God bless them. God bless them all. 

[snickers34]

21 minutes ago, AmazonGrace said:

It's definitely going to be more complicated to break off an engagement if it's something that Daddy prayed about and God told him that this is the guy your daughter should marry.

Ok. So I don't want this to come off in any way defending these crazy hateful people. It's awful to think he never served time for doing something so disgusting and clearly slut shamed this poor girl. But, let's say Tabitha knew about what he had done and she still loves him. Because someone had done something terrible like this, do they deserve to never find love and get married?

[AmazonGrace]

2 minutes ago, snickers34 said:

Ok. So I don't want this to come off in any way defending these crazy hateful people. It's awful to think he never served time for doing something so disgusting and clearly slut shamed this poor girl. But, let's say Tabitha knew about what he had done and she still loves him. Because someone had done something terrible like this, do they deserve to never find love and get married?

 I would never ever marry a rapist, but  other people's mileage may vary.   

[choralcrusader8613]

5 minutes ago, snickers34 said:

Ok. So I don't want this to come off in any way defending these crazy hateful people. It's awful to think he never served time for doing something so disgusting and clearly slut shamed this poor girl. But, let's say Tabitha knew about what he had done and she still loves him. Because someone had done something terrible like this, do they deserve to never find love and get married?

To me, it would depend on how truly sorry the person was for what they had done. Some people do truly horrible things in their lives, are sorry for them, and accept the consequences for their actions while trying to move on with their lives as much as possible. Others are like the thief who isn't sorry they stole, but is very, very sorry they got caught.

I would hope that Tim is truly sorry for what he did, but from what I've read, I'm led to believe otherwise.

[Jencendiary]

28 minutes ago, snickers34 said:

Because someone had done something terrible like this, do they deserve to never find love and get married?

I'm fine with that.

[kinphilly]

On 2/3/2017 at 7:33 PM, FleeJanaFree said:

Kinphilly, I downvoted you and *then* realized what you were saying. (My bad) To anyone else confused, kinphilly isn't saying Tim is on a black and white sex offended registry despite the possibility of something in a gray area. (I.e. "He's innocent!) She/he was responding to another posters question about what the sex offender registry is. She/ he is correct you can get on this list for things other than sex. People have gotten on it for urinating in public.

 

tim,however, is a sad sack of shit rapist.

YES!   That's what I was trying to point out.    Even if it's just 1 in 1,000 that is on the registry for something OTHER than a rape or abuse type thing, we just need to be aware to look into particulars of a case.      Statutory rape of a 40 year old and a 16 year old is a crime, in my opinion.    But between two dating highschoolers is just not the same thing.   (or two dating college students if you have a 17 year old as a college freshman ...)

[singsingsing]

20 minutes ago, snickers34 said:

Ok. So I don't want this to come off in any way defending these crazy hateful people. It's awful to think he never served time for doing something so disgusting and clearly slut shamed this poor girl. But, let's say Tabitha knew about what he had done and she still loves him. Because someone had done something terrible like this, do they deserve to never find love and get married?

If he were marrying a woman who was around his own age with a similar level of life experience, and maybe also some 'bad decisions' in her past that she had also 'repented of' I'd shrug and say, "Hey, whatever. She's an adult, she knows his story, her choice." What really skeeves me out is that Tabitha is so sheltered and expected to be so submissive after marriage. She has no education or skills and almost no life experience. She's a virgin who has almost certainly never dated, kissed or even really flirted back and forth with another guy. She has never lived on her own or with roommates. She has probably never had a sip of alcohol, gone on a roadtrip with friends, or watched an R-rated movie. And she didn't make these choices for herself, she was indoctrinated into them - and now she's marrying an older man who was a convicted rapist and who at the very least, by his own admission, had serious problems with drinking and sex. It seems next to impossible that they just met and naturally fell in love, because of the rigid religious system Tabitha is deeply involved in, so he must have chosen to pursue her, when he could have chosen a woman more on his level. That concerns me.