The book what Lori wrote: The Power of a Transformed Wife Pt2

[Koala]

Reader:

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Wow! Although I do believe being a keeper of the home is obedience to God, I also believe the "state" should not have such laws. Cleaning your home and cooking for your family should be an act of service towards your family, and I could see it being done out of fear instead!

Lori:

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 Fear is not always a bad thing

Lori:

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Women should have a bit of fear for not taking care of their families because their husband and children suffer.

 

[Red Hair, Black Dress]

Lori and Dave commiserate in the Comments on the Blog that disobeying one's husband doesn't come with physical punishment.

Both seem to imply that physical punishment wouldn't be abuse and theat the whole problem of messy houses is that women don't fear God enough.

More likely it's a woman with 8 under 10,  in a too small house, and trying to homeschool, while keeping the house and children spotless, the laundry caught up-ironed-put away, and having dinner on the table the minute the headship comes home.

Something's got to give in that situation, and if the house and children are spotless, etc -- then homeschooling went out the window.

Which, sadly, I think is the case in most fundie households

[Koala]

35 minutes ago, Red Hair, Black Dress said:

Lori and Dave commiserate in the Comments on the Blog that disobeying one's husband doesn't come with physical punishment.

Both seem to imply that physical punishment wouldn't be abuse and theat the whole problem of messy houses is that women don't fear God enough.

Which post?  Would you mind quoting or linking?

I am not surprised at all.  I believe this is the "Dave" from the infamous " Privileged to be Dave's Doormat" post.

Dave also has a history of being keen on physical violence.

Dave:

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It is interesting to note that all forms of authority relationships have some physical restraint as a necessary functional part of their role…. EXCEPT marriage. Yet marriage is foundational to all other authority relationships as marriage authority is the model for children, church, government, etc. No wonder all these relationships are tattered rags any more. 
Physical restraint is acceptable to all in some form for children whether just ’go to your room’ or spanking or time out or ‘I will not pay for your cell phone any longer.’ Government [including military] physical discipline is in many forms like taking away privileges [voting or driver’s license] but ultimately handcuffs or jail or death. And the church has physical discipline like withholding communion or excommunication. Even employer relationships will require leave of absences or demotions or termination. 
All of these physical actions come after some level of verbal warning, no matter how poor a communicator an authority may be. 
And even God uses physical options: physical pain from His emotional silence, pain and suffering directly from our actions, or letting all hell breaks loose. 
So what ever happened to the physical disciplines in marriage? Yes, that thought sounds very foreign to us [and someone might report me to the ‘authorities’ for verbally threatening my wife by just posing the question]. I won’t mention the possibilities that come to mind other than to say they may well include some that are used by the other authorities above.

It's in the comments of this post:

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2015/07/when-words-wont-resolve-arguments.html

The doormat post:

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2013/12/priveleged-to-be-doormat.html#idc-container

From the post (Lori quoting Dave's wife):

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"Doormats serve a very specific and even edifying purpose, do they not?  What if the doormat said, 'I don't want to be a doormat anymore' in a grumbling, complaining attitude?  Then what would the floors of the house look like?  All manner of dirt and filth from the outside world would be spread throughout our homes.  But if the doormat takes pride in serving the home, filtering it of all the junk that would otherwise enter that home, then I say, 'God, would you allow me to count it a privilege to be a doormat for my home?  Can I serve my husband so that before he enters his castle, he can swipe his shoes of all the outside mess he's stepped in all day?  Would you let me count it a privilege to be that good man's doormat?

Dave's wife (from the comments):

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Whoa, Lori. My comments about being Dave's doormat which you quoted in this post have, um, struck a cord... Oh, well. May I yet be a doormat for my husband. 
 

It's insane to me that neither of the Alexanders seem to have recognized that this is likely an abusive marriage.  Ken seems to be a bit uncomfortable with some of his replies.  Lori, on the other hand, eats them up with a spoon.  Cause you know...she loves teaching women.  And Dave.  And Rob.  And Charles.  And the other men who comment on her blog directed to women.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

The Dave remark is on today's post

https://thetransformedwife.com/jail-time-for-messy-housekeepers/#comments

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I have made this comment here before: a husband is the only authority that has no means of physical restraint to enforce their authority. Why is that ? And, has the breakdown we now see in all other authorities any relation to this?

The only authority? LOL, I don't think my employer/boss can physically restrain me. Unless this is Secretary. 

Dave was also quoted in her journal entry recently. She loves him. 

[Koala]

10 minutes ago, AlwaysDiscerning said:

The Dave remark is on today's post

https://thetransformedwife.com/jail-time-for-messy-housekeepers/#comments

The only authority? LOL, I don't think my employer/boss can physically restrain me. Unless this is Secretary. 

Dave was also quoted in her journal entry recently. She loves him. 

So weird.  It shows "no comments" for me.  

Yep, Lori is all over everything Dave says.  So creepy.

[AlwaysDiscerning]

That is her screwy website. I know what you are talking about. My phone usually shows zero comments but sometimes it will say 8 comments and my laptop will say 10. 

[Imrlgoddess]

I think maybe there's a sign in rule somehow in place to see the comments?   I can click on the "6 comments" link at the top of the post, but then it's just the fill in box to submit a comment, there are none to read.  

I'm not sure how he thinks there is physical discipline everywhere...yes in the military, but only during basic training.   Once you're in the fleet it's business as usual, and I don't know of anyone who's ever been physically disciplined by their boss.  Fussed at, sure.  Written up, reprimanded...but never sent to their office for a time out.  I mean really?  It never ceases to amaze me how psychotic people will make an argument for abuse and do everything they can to normalize it or make it not sound as bad as it is.  

[VooDooChild]

These men that blabber on and on about authority are so obviously utterly inept as leaders.  They have zero natural authority or ability to lead even a starving dog to a bone.  Too much ego means they must go the extremes of "physical restraint" or spousal abuse in order to feel masculine.  They must salivate over people who possess a natural air of authority.  And this shrew Lori just eats it up.  She has got to feel a good amount of self-loathing if she's constantly condoning and encouraging this behavior.

[TeddyBonkers]

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 If a woman showed me those pictures, this is exactly what I would tell her to do, not air out her dirty laundry for the world to see like this woman did, as if this was supposed to help her.

"This woman shouldn't have aired her dirty laundry in public. Let me spread it around some more!"

Cognitive dissonance, thy name is Lori.

[Loveday]

2 hours ago, Koala said:

So weird.  It shows "no comments" for me.  

Yep, Lori is all over everything Dave says.  So creepy.

It's showing no comments for me, either. Yet other posts have comments, so I don't think we have to sign in to see them. I think she's been on a deleting spree this afternoon. Either she suddenly realized, or someone (Ken?) told her that talk of men physically disciplining their wives might adversely affect her book sales. 

[desertvixen]

@usmcmom, thinking good thoughts for you.

@TeddyBonkers, you said: "I maintain that if women being keepers at home was so critical, then Christ would have taught it instead of Paul."

All I have to say to that is yes, exactly.  These people are way more into Paul than Christ.

[mango_fandango]

No sane man would want to use "physical restraint" in a marriage, unless they were in a consenting BDSM agreement. BDSM is far from my cup of tea, but if the couple are in mutual agreement and practise safely I'd have no problem with it. 

[foreign fundie]

As someone who has read the whole Bible from cover to cover multiple times, I can confidently say there is nothing in there promoting, suggesting or tolerating spousal 'discipline'. Husbands are told to honor their wives, treating her with extra care as she is more delicate, not to be rough with her and to display sacrificial, self-giving love.

Also, there is never an element of a husband having to raise and correct his wife as if she was less mature than him. Everything breaths a partnership of two equal adults, who are encouraged to care and respect, submit and forgive, but no physical power is given to one over the other.

Wives are told how they should behave, with words directed to them, but never are husbands told 'make sure your wives obey you, using force if necessary'. Instead, they are in turn told how they should behave, in a self- sacrificial manner.

It is up to the spouses to choose to obey God or not. But not up to one spouse to demand from the other one that he/she act a certain way, let alone physically force him/her. 

Love and force do not go together, which is why God did not wrench Eve's arm when she reached for the forbidden fruit. Love must be given. It must be a choice. And the essence of love is that it is powerless, with the cross as ultimate symbol. 

That is the kind of  love husbands are called to show their wives. No room there for force and punishment. If you want power, marriage is the wrong place to find it.

All I have left to add is that Dave's comments are seriously creepy of the degree that makes my stomach turn. I hope he is writing them from solitary confinement. The fact that Lori gives him credit is ten times more worrying than anything she herself has written. 

[Loveday]

@foreign fundie I love your post so, so much.  I wish that Lori could not only read it, but also GET it.  That's wishful thinking, though. 

[Koala]

Finally, something Lori and I can agree on:

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Since colleges are so expensive now, should young godly women have her parent’s go into debt in hopes of finding a husband? NO!

I actually agree with this.  If parents choose to invest in their daughter's education (which I think is a wonderful investment), they should do so in order to provide her with learning opportunities, that can later lead to better jobs.  If she decides to be a sahm, so be it.  Her education will always be there as a safety net, still making it a worthy investment.

My fundie friend (who I've posted about before), wanted to go to college.  Her father wouldn't allow it.  Umbrella of protection, you know.  As I've said, her marriage ended, and now her options are limited.  Money is an issue, and she's on her own.  Daddy?  We'll he has a college education, and is reaping the benefits.  Her brothers?  They also acquired college educations. Money won't be a concern for any of them.  Meanwhile, my friend is left to struggle...because patriarchy, and some fucking imaginary umbrella.  

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 the Lord doesn’t care about higher education

This is a HUGE statement.  HUGE.  Lori is essentially, presuming to speak for God.  Notice she provides not one shred of scripture to accompany that assertion.  Lori doesn't value education, so naturally, neither does God.

Does God value the work of the doctors who save children with cancer?  Then he values higher education. 

Does God value the work of the doctors who Lori allowed to treat her brain tumor?  Then he values highter education.

Does God value the work of the doctors who treated Lori when she was in the ICU?  Then he values higher education.

*disclaimer* I'm an Atheist, so I don't believe in God, but for the sake of argument...

 

[Imrlgoddess]

I'm assuming that her stratement about God not caring about higher education comes from the fact that the bible doesn't specifically say "you may be educated". 

Given the fact that some things simply aren't in there because they weren't things back then & many books were left out or altered when it was compiled, why make assumptions about what God deems important? Just because it's not in red print in the KJV doesn't mean it's not listed in a tomb laying in the Vatican or the Hagia Sophia somewhere. 

She thinks very highly of herself & her personal interpretation. Check your pride Lori. 

[onemama]

Foreign Fundie, that is such a beautiful post! 

Nowhere in the Bible is a husband told to wield authority over his wife. God didn't turn around and tell Adam: " because you listened to the woman, you will have to control her and exercise authority over her", but somehow, that seems to be what people like Dave read into the Bible.

Lori's endorsement of Dave's comments is revolting. She claims her blog is a source of encouragement for women, yet she entertains a misogynistic man whose wife follows her!  Disgusting.

[Loveday]

I have never met a parent who sent their daughter to college to meet a husband. Again, the question arises: where does Lori find all these people who so conveniently fit as examples in her anti-woman arguments? 

Of course, I met my husband at a bar, so... 

[Koala]

I think these comments are so important, because they show how willingly Lori allows herself to speak on behalf of God.

Reader:

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I am a stay at home mom but I went to college and got a degree. I also met my husband there! I have never once doubted that was the path God led me on.

Lori:

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In 1 Timothy 5:14, we are told: "I will therefore that the younger women marry, bear children, guide the house, give none occasion to the adversary to speak reproachfully" (1 Timothy 5:14) so I am not so sure about God leading you on this path. Women didn't even attend college up until recently in the whole of history and they were able to find their husbands.

Well there's several ways to look at this, but I think I like this one best:

In 1 Timothy 5:13 we are told: "Besides, they get into the habit of being idle and going about from house to house. And not only do they become idlers, but also busybodies who talk nonsense, saying things they ought not to. So I am not so sure about God leading Lori on this path to blogging (as it seems to have turned her into quite the busybody & gossip).  Women didn't even have access to the internet up until recently in the whole of history and they were able to mentor younger women.

That work for you guys?

Seriously though, the absolute gall of this woman!

On a side note: Lori has advised Christian singles to meet in many different ways (including dating websites):

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Search out eHarmony and Christian Mingle and give it a try. I have had older friends who found their spouses there.

Find a bigger church if you need to and one that has a large, active single's group, then get involved. Make yourself available for godly men to find you. Since we are a remnant, we should use modern technology to find each other! 

So God can use eHarmony and Christian Mingle, but not college.

Mmmkay.

[kpmom]

What about the story in Luke where Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, unbeknownst to his parents, to learn from and discuss ideas with the teachers in the temple?

That was higher education in those days I imagine.

Or is Lori only talking about the Lord not caring about higher education for women?

 

[Koala]

10 minutes ago, kpmom said:

What about the story in Luke where Jesus stayed behind in Jerusalem, unbeknownst to his parents, to learn from and discuss ideas with the teachers in the temple?

That was higher education in those days I imagine.

Or is Lori only talking about the Lord not caring about higher education for women?

 

Lori:

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God doesn't direct any women to college since there is no where in the Bible that is written about a woman having higher education and a career. Women are to be keepers at home and all of the Proverbs 31 woman's life revolved around and in her home. She did not have a career outside of her home. "She looked well to the ways of her household." (Prov. 31:27) Society was a much better place when women were in the home tending their families and others.

 

[Hisey]

Has anyone seen the latest review of her book on Amazon? Sums it up pretty well, I think.

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1.0 out of 5 starsPoorly written by a cruel woman

ByAmazon Readeron November 13, 2016

Format: Kindle Edition

Honestly, the author comes across as a sociopath. She claims to be writing for wives, but she really seems to hate women. Her book suggests that women are literally responsible for anything that happens in a marriage. No matter what it is, it's the woman's fault for not being submissive enough.

Simply put, her book makes her come across as a bully. The sad part is that she probably will just think people are out to get her instead of doing some self reflecting.

1 comment|5 people found this helpful. Was this review helpful to you?YesNoReport abuse

 

[Showtunesgirl]

I can't find the comments section of her post, but what she has written makes me SO MAD! As someone who went to a Christian college (and not nominally Christian, but mandated chapel attendance three times a week and so forth), where there were freshmen orientation skits that JOKED about the "ring by spring" and getting your "MRS degree" culture, I am offended by pretty much everything in her post. The first is the insinuation that women only attend college to find a spouse. While it's true that many can find their future spouse while in college, I did not meet one person whose primary reason for paying $26,000+/year (this was in the early 2000s) was to meet their husband/wife. The reason and goal for attending was to equip oneself for our future vocations, whatever they were. Most jobs require some sort of undergraduate degree, not just jobs in the medical or educational fields. I have plenty of friends who got business and engineering degrees who are currently very happy as SAHMs. However, the reality is that if anything were to happen to their husbands, they would be able to go out and support their families, which is why even though some of them married while still in college/grad school, they still finished their educations and got their degrees. NONE of their husbands wanted them to stop their educations just to stay home and bear children. Second, switching to a different church and getting involved in ministry there with the sole ulterior motive of finding a spouse is even worse than going to college for the same reason. No pastor/elder or Bible teacher I know would EVER recommend this method for speeding up the marriage process.  It makes a mockery of that church, its ministry, your own faith, and most importantly, your value of God's sovereignty. What Lori (and so many like her) fails to understand is that marriage is not the ultimate goal for a believer. Yes, God created marriage as good, and many if not most people will be married at some point, but it is not the end-all purpose for life. What her posts (plural, because I read the old one about single people needing to lose weight and dress better in order to get married) really do is reinforce the lesser value of single people in the Church, directly or indirectly pointing to that singleness as evidence that they don't measure up to God's standards, because otherwise they'd be married.  UGH. 

 

Sorry, I know it's long and rant-y, but her post today just got to me. 

[Koala]

Lori purposefully lies to her readers.  To hear her rants, you might assume that her daughters didn't go to college, but one of them did, and the other has a successful CAREER.

Now for the lie:

Lori

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Ken and I plus our children went to Christian colleges but they certainly don't allow any of the stuff that goes on in University dorms to happen in the Christian dorms. Therefore, we didn't have to see the junk.

She continues:

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It is not a place I would attend so I would never send my children to a place I would never want to attend.

This comment can be found in the comment section of this post:

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2015/12/institutions-with-false-teachers-and.html

Now watch this:

Lori

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 My youngest daughter is getting her teaching credential this year. She is finishing up right now at the university and hears things she should never have to hear. 

Ken

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 My daughter has been attending a public University and has to put up with garbage and lies in History, English and Sociology. 

Lori

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My daughter gave a presentation in her sociology class. She was actually able to share her faith. The class discussion, however, degenerated into homosexual sex in prisons. Three classes in one day taught about homosexual sex and the like on some gay history day. I wouldn't even want to hear that stuff! 

These comments can be found in the comments of this post:

http://lorialexander.blogspot.com/2012/01/girls-going-to-college.html

The catch?  The second batch of comments were written first.  Her assertion that her children went to Christian colleges and weren't exposed to that "junk" was written AFTER she'd already told her readers that her daughter was at university hearing all manner of evil  

 

[mango_fandango]

My mind hurts from all that mental gymnastics. Fundies and logic just don't go, do they??