Jill, Derick and Israel- Part 19

[bal maiden]

4 hours ago, Gemini said:

Ok here in England we call ketchup tomato sauce.

For a moment I was really grossed out but From what I can gather by some of these posts, that's not the case in the US and Izzy is eating a sauce made of tomatoes and not ketchup? 

Please tell me I have this correct! As much as eating cold sauce out of the can is pretty weird, feeding your baby ketchup is a whole different kinda special!

British person living in the US here. He's essentially being fed something halfway between tomato puree and passata, with a few added herbs and shit in it. Not ketchup and not Dolmio. 

[marmalade]

54 minutes ago, Karma said:

I remember one of the younger  girls as a baby being fed something from a spoon by michelle while laying down.  More details escape me, I'm afraid.

Michelle fed Jordyn canned peas while the toddler was lying down on a couch. 

[Purrl]

My friend had twins and I remember her putting them in their high chairs, sitting in front of them, and spooning canned peas into their mouths - first one & then the other, back & forth. I do not understand the tomato sauce though. I see some dripping down his chin so maybe she is showing us how clever he is because he has been drinking cheap tomato sauce straight from the can?

I will occasionally eat whole string beans straight from the can.

Regarding the picture with Cathy, if Jill is pregnant, she's not very far along. She doesn't seem to have much of a belly in that photo.

[HarleyQuinn]

If you want to buy canned vegetables, that's fine. (Personally, the only canned stuff in my house is tomato sauces, which I add herbs to for pasta and soup) but ffs, strain it, put it in a bowl, and heat it up. Eating cold stuff out of a can is so lazy and gross. 

[nst]

perhaps next we will see her feed him raw cookie dough 

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

19 hours ago, BoPeep said:

I find it weird to 1. Eat tomato sauce, and 2. Eat it from a can.  But a funny on the cold peas....I used to feed dd frozen peas.  She LOVED them.  A family member was around one day and had a COW that I didn't first cook the peas.  Like I was abusing my kid, hahaha.  But all the mmmmm's in the background and the cute kiddo shoving them in hand over fist made the relative realize all was ok.  

I realize the feeding from a tin was a way to save money on disposable plates since buying reusable dishes seems to be unreasonable for these knuckle draggers. I'm sure the kids were hungry prior to TLC this family was probably food insecure and in deep  poverty with so many kids and Boobs ego not allowing them any public assistance their medical bills for all of MEchell's babies plus that property  with the TTH being built for years and years.  Jill doesn't know better but Derrick does, ramen in tomato sauce isn't spaghetti.  I made my own baby food, and you could easily feed a child younger than Izzy what the adults are eating. SMH these two are so stupid. 

 

[Palimpsest]

On 10/13/2016 at 10:00 AM, MargaretElliott said:

Oh! OH! TANGENT!

Approximately less than half a percent of women died in cooking fires from the 1100s onward. Yep, you heard right. It wasn't in the top five causes of death, top ten- less than half a percent since the 1100s. Some woman whose name I've forgotten did a study on the subject, and was shocked by the results. Lots of museums still tell the all-woman-died-in-cooking-fires story, despite the fact that it's not remotely true. As someone who has cooked on a fire in long skirts, it's actually quite difficult to catch yourself on fire. The aprons are wool, which is flame-retardant, and draw the skirts tightly around the legs and out of the way. I just wanted to share- historical cooking is a passion of mine, as is turning people's expectations about history upside-down!

Oh, oh!  Very Big Tangent Ahead!

I wanted to get back to this because I love finding fellow Colonial History enthusiasts, especially women's history enthusiasts.  I think you are referring either to Mary Theobald's book, Death by Petticoat, or perhaps Laurel Thatcher Ulrich research in her "Good Wives" book.  Not the more famous Martha Ballard: the Midwife's Tale but the Image and Reality in the Domestic Lives of Women one. I highly recommend all three books.

Contrary to popular belief, the leading cause of death for women was disease, not hearth fires or childbirth.  Now I want to go and find the books and the stats.  And, by the way, you are apparently my neighbor in North Central Nowhere. 

Quote

Anywho, in the interest of staying on topic, I have a question- is there any difference between KJV and ESV other than the thees and thous? And if not, what on earth does that have to do with how true it is- they mean the same thing, it's just a slightly older word. It can't change the meaning of the bible that much, right? 

Getting back on topic too.  

Yes, indeed, you blasphemer, you!  

Some people, especially Fundies,  take this sort of thing Very Seriously.  They have long drawn out theological battles over the differences in translations and why their version is best, although the KJV Only crowd is probably the noisiest.  Supposedly other newer versions tried to make the Bible more readable but are Intentionally Doctrinally Corrupt.   Those other Gnostic Greek manuscripts mess with the Deity of Christ, the Trinity, and the all important Salvation through Grace by Faith Alone business.

I'm only interested in the differences academically - and because the KJV Only crowd get their knickers in such a twist over it all - but I like Bible Gateway to compare versions or this site: http://www.biblestudytools.com/genesis/1-6-compare.html

A very innocent verse but is it a firmament, an arch, an expanse, a horizon, the sky, a vault, or a dome that separates the waters?  These things matter to some people.

[just_ordinary]

Put me in the categorie feeding cold food out of a tin is repelling (to each their own- I am sure some people think what I like to eat is disgusting). But why are some concerned about the edges? He is clearly not feeding himself. And at least there were real vegetables in the sauce at one point. Better then feeding him plain bread solely. But why think it is a good idea to post that? Isreal is too old to be cute when covered in food.

I wonder what JB and M think about their married daugther leaving the KJV only way. And then there is Ben who has a calvinistic backround. And isn't Jeremy also more calvinsitic? Are they fine with it because headhsip is calling the shots? Do they just not really care because they actually are not educated enough about their own believe system to see the problem? I do not know the ESV so I believe the people who say that this translation is more rigid about the role of the woman and that makes me sad.  Hope it is really just for studying as some posters assumed.

[Palimpsest]

2 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I wonder what JB and M think about their married daugther leaving the KJV only way.

IMO, Jim Bob Duggar is actually pig ignorant when it comes to theology.  As he once famously said in Scotland: "Look kids, that's where King James wrote the Bible!"

I think he liked Gothard's strict rules, because he could just follow them without much thought,  and is basically attracted to the Patriarchal Movement because he is a controlling asshole.  He is more street smart than a deep thinker.

Both he and Michelle publicly subscribe to "leave and cleave" philosophy, and it is quite possible that the Fall of Gothard shook him up quite badly.  That would make him more open to sons in law with more Calvinistic beliefs.  Then there is the theory that true believing Gothardites at the top of the hierarchy avoid the Duggar off-spring as marriage material.  Possibly partly because of Josh's molestation record, and also because Jim Bob was always considered a light-weight social climber in IBLP circles.  Gil Bates is a heavy weight in comparison.

[just_ordinary]

6 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

IThen there is the theory that true believing Gothardites at the top of the hierarchy avoid the Duggar off-spring as marriage material.  Possibly partly because of Josh's molestation record, and also because Jim Bob was always considered a light-weight social climber in IBLP circles.

I think it is very interesting that every married male Duggar or Bates offspring has a failed courtship in the books. ( I know only two made it to the altar so far). But that might be theories for another thread.

[alba]

IMO, Jim Bob Duggar is actually pig ignorant when it comes to theology.  As he once famously said in Scotland: "Look kids, that's where King James wrote the Bible!"

LMFAO I'd forgotten about that! Thanks for the chuckle.

[JermajestyDuggar]

5 minutes ago, just_ordinary said:

I think it is very interesting that every married male Duggar or Bates offspring has a failed courtship in the books. ( I know only two made it to the altar so far). But that might be theories for another thread.

I think it's more interesting that the failed courtships are all males from the Duggar And bates Families. 

Zach, Nathan, Josh, Josiah. 

Why is that? I am curious to hear theories.

[nausicaa]

1 hour ago, Palimpsest said:

IMO, Jim Bob Duggar is actually pig ignorant when it comes to theology.  As he once famously said in Scotland: "Look kids, that's where King James wrote the Bible!"

 Wow. I had never heard that before. 

I wouldn't be shocked if someone not into religion thought King James actually wrote the KJV, but when you make Christianity the central and only focus of your life, and rabidly defend a single translation, maybe know a thing or two about the translation? Like more than my dumbass that was raised Catholic and still apparently knows more about a Biblical translation Catholics don't even use?

[alba]

 Wow. I had never heard that before. 

I wouldn't be shocked if someone not into religion thought King James actually wrote the KJV, but when you make Christianity the central and only focus of your life, and rabidly defend a single translation, maybe know a thing or two about the translation? Like more than my dumbass that was raised Catholic and still apparently knows more about a Biblical translation Catholics don't even use?

The sad thing? The misconception that James VI *wrote* rather than translated the Bible wasn't the only inaccuracy in that sentence.

For one thing, James only oversaw the scholars doing the translating; he didn't do it personally. For another, this all happened after he moved to England, so it wasn't in the building in Edinburgh Jim Boob pointed to (I can't remember what building that was, but I'm guessing either the castle or the Palace of Holyrood House).

I wouldn't expect the average KJV reader to know that last bit, to be fair, but there's a difference between mistakenly believing James VI had the Bible translated in Scotland and telling your children he wrote it there.

[freshlemonade]

Regarding Jill and the tomato sauce  (FYI American tomato sauce is just pureed tomatoes and salt, but the terms tomato sauce, pasta sauce, and spaghetti sauce are used interchangeably by some (regional thing) and it can get really confusing because they aren't really the same thing):

Aren't Jill and Jana the two Duggar girls that can actually cook?  Strange that she'd pick tomato sauce as a meal.   It seems like she's always feeding Izzy some type of puree even though he's well past the baby food stage.  Maybe he has stomach/refllux/chewing issues?   Or maybe its just a quirky snack preference. Also,  I've noticed a lot of organic brands in Ben and Jessa's house, but I'm not sure about Jill and Derrick.  

[PennySycamore]

@Palimpsest, you mentioning the various translations of the word that is firmament in the KJV reminds me of something I saw in either the New American Bible or the Jerusalem Bible years ago in an essay on the various translations.  It gave the "birds of the air" passage as a comparison of the various English translations.  It was either in Tyndale or another early, pre-KJV translation that the passage was about the "bryddes of the air".  We called our pet birds bryddes after that.  

[nausicaa]

46 minutes ago, alba said:

The sad thing? The misconception that James VI *wrote* rather than translated the Bible wasn't the only inaccuracy in that sentence.

For one thing, James only oversaw the scholars doing the translating; he didn't do it personally. For another, this all happened after he moved to England, so it wasn't in the building in Edinburgh Jim Boob pointed to (I can't remember what building that was, but I'm guessing either the castle or the Palace of Holyrood House).

I wouldn't expect the average KJV reader to know that last bit, to be fair, but there's a difference between mistakenly believing James VI had the Bible translated in Scotland and telling your children he wrote it there.

 

Actually, I didn't even consider that JB might think King James literally "wrote" the Bible (at this point, I shouldn't be surprised at anything that man thinks); I was shocked enough that he thought James had made that translation, rather than hired scholars to do it. I mean, it's kind of a big historical event and the coming together of several different religious movements. 

These people are always having Bible time and going to conferences and having church meetings-- what the hell are they talking about in there?

[sophie10130]

12 minutes ago, nausicaa said:

Actually, I didn't even consider that JB might think King James literally "wrote" the Bible (at this point, I shouldn't be surprised at anything that man thinks); I was shocked enough that he thought James had made that translation, rather than hired scholars to do it. I mean, it's kind of a big historical event and the coming together of several different religious movements. 

These people are always having Bible time and going to conferences and having church meetings-- what the hell are they talking about in there?

Just how to twist the words to mean what they want: hate gays, women stay in the home, women have as many kids as possible, no abortions, no birth control, and elect those who think the same!

[Palimpsest]

41 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

@Palimpsest, you mentioning the various translations of the word that is firmament in the KJV reminds me of something I saw in either the New American Bible or the Jerusalem Bible years ago in an essay on the various translations.  It gave the "birds of the air" passage as a comparison of the various English translations.  It was either in Tyndale or another early, pre-KJV translation that the passage was about the "bryddes of the air".  We called our pet birds bryddes after that.  

Love it!

Of course, I had to go and look.  It's not Tyndale.  Matthew 6:26 there is "Beholde the foules of ye ayer: for they sowe not nether reepe nor yet cary into ye barnes: and yet youre hevely father fedeth the. Are ye not moche better the they?"

My guess is that "bryddes" is the Caxton translation, but Bible Study Tools has failed me.  It seems to have practically every other English translation but not Caxton.  And at the other end of the scale it doesn't have the Holman Christian Standard Bible yet either.  I wonder what the KJV Only crowd think of that modern translation - wasn't the Holman Bible developed by the SBC? 

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, freshlemonade said:

Regarding Jill and the tomato sauce  (FYI American tomato sauce is just pureed tomatoes and salt, but the terms tomato sauce, pasta sauce, and spaghetti sauce are used interchangeably by some (regional thing) and it can get really confusing because they aren't really the same thing):

Aren't Jill and Jana the two Duggar girls that can actually cook?  Strange that she'd pick tomato sauce as a meal.   It seems like she's always feeding Izzy some type of puree even though he's well past the baby food stage.  Maybe he has stomach/refllux/chewing issues?   Or maybe its just a quirky snack preference. Also,  I've noticed a lot of organic brands in Ben and Jessa's house, but I'm not sure about Jill and Derrick.  

He's been shown eating regular food before (especially fresh fruit) - both online and on the show. So I don't think he's only eating purées or anything like that. I'm guessing that either this was an odd snack or they gave him a tiny taste while using it in a recipe or something.

As for what the Dills eat, I have no clue. We don't see enough of them online or on the show normally to really know what their normal diets are like. 

[Carm_88]

17 hours ago, candygirl200413 said:

It's interesting, in my family at least that I know if, my mom and sister can eat a lot of foods cold no problem while me and my twin brother need anything that is usually warmed up always warmed up.

 

It just also rubs me the wrong way with eating straight out of a can, but if it's something you're not really taught (a la duggar) then at least to me it isn't surprising that she would do this. I also agree with you @Snarkle Motion about a fixed mindset. I'm also just curious if the metallic taste gets weird or annoying? But as some of you have written it seems like for the most part you're okay with it!

You do get used to the metallic taste bt I think after a while you really do start to notice it. Well I did maybe my tastes just turned. And I think chef boyardee is much different than feeding a child tomato sauce out of a can. I would be the "do as I say and not as I do parent." 

[feministxtian]

7 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

If you want to buy canned vegetables, that's fine. (Personally, the only canned stuff in my house is tomato sauces, which I add herbs to for pasta and soup) but ffs, strain it, put it in a bowl, and heat it up. Eating cold stuff out of a can is so lazy and gross. 

Regarding the bolded...that's your opinion. It might be "lazy" but it's not gross. I don't like things that are too hot or too cold. It's a sensory issue for me. My preferred temperature range is a little warmer than room temperature to out of the fridge. 

[Palimpsest]

1 hour ago, VelociRapture said:

As for what the Dills eat, I have no clue. We don't see enough of them online or on the show normally to really know what their normal diets are like. 

Spaghetti pie?  I'm sure I saw a photo of Derrick tucking into a plate of that with a healthy serving of broccoli on the side. 

Young Izzy looks well enough nourished to me.  No signs of scurvy, beriberi, rickets or pellagra anyway. I think he will be fine even if he is fed tomato sauce straight out of cans occasionally.

 

[Mercer]

3 hours ago, freshlemonade said:

Aren't Jill and Jana the two Duggar girls that can actually cook?  Strange that she'd pick tomato sauce as a meal.   It seems like she's always feeding Izzy some type of puree even though he's well past the baby food stage.  Maybe he has stomach/refllux/chewing issues?   Or maybe its just a quirky snack preference. Also,  I've noticed a lot of organic brands in Ben and Jessa's house, but I'm not sure about Jill and Derrick.  

I doubt he has reflux. If he did, eating straight tomato sauce would have him in discomfort quickly and noticeably.

Regarding the eating out of cans thing: It's not my style, but I don't see it as a big deal. As long as it's done in way that no safety issue is involved - which there doesn't seem to be if he's sitting upright and not holding the can himself - it's not going to damage or traumatize anyone, so as far as I'm concerned the Dillards can do whatever they want.

[Kittikatz]

Kids are (frequently) weird little people... when I was about 2 - 4ish I was obsessed with mushrooms (so much so, my mother arranged a tour of a mushroom farm in my area. I still remember it! Best afternoon of my childhood, easily). But I wasn't just into the good fresh mushrooms (which I ate raw), my idea of a treat extended to eating sliced button mushrooms out of the can. Oh, and condensed mushroom soup the same way. I had to literally beg my parents to buy these things (they are not mushroom people, so my fixation was rather off-putting to them), and I was always vexed when someone would cook with the mushrooms or add milk to the soup and heat it up. Now, I still like mushrooms, but find the idea of eating either of those canned food items in that fashion to be utterly revolting. Izzy may have an indiscriminate love of tomatoes, and giving him a bite or two of jarred/tinned tomato sauce could be his idea of a treat. It may or may not be a regular thing, but he looks pretty happy about it, and seems generally well nourished, so perhaps he's just being a little eccentric in his eating habits. At least he's doing better than one of my friends kids - who is twoish and currently refusing to eat anything other than chicken tenders with mayonnaise (shudder)