Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation

[Palimpsest]

9 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

I have been following the drama. My question was meant to be sarcastic.

OK.  I have to say that the sarcasm comes over as victim bashing to me but perhaps that was not your intent.

[RosyDaisy]

OK.  I have to say that the sarcasm comes over as victim bashing to me but perhaps that was not your intent.

Oh no, not victim blaming at all. I'm sorry it came across that way. I have nothing but sympathy and compassion for the victims. I really need to work on my sarcasm skills.

[Palimpsest]

Thanks for clarifying @RosyDaisy.

Homeschoolers Anonymous hasn't updated with the judge's decision yet.  I feel so sorry for the victims having to go through this as well as everything else.

 

 

[formergothardite]

I hope we find out soon what he decided. 

[formergothardite]

Well it has been postponed till May 31. 

[Palimpsest]

On an optimistic note - perhaps that means the judge is giving it serious thought.  

[Palimpsest]

Sorry, I missed this earlier.

On 5/19/2016 at 11:15 PM, theinvisiblegirl said:

Do families like the Duggars keep their kids up-to-date on stuff like this?

Probably - but with a spin.  As in Mr G is no longer President of IBLP. But that's OK, and IBLP/ATI teachings are still good because we follow God not men. Men can sin.  The older and married children probably know quite a lot more because Anna's sister is married to David Waller, a rising star at IBLP/ATI.  

On 5/19/2016 at 11:15 PM, theinvisiblegirl said:

Obviously with the fundie twist supporting Gothard and condemning the women.

JB Duggar (probably) and Gil Bates (certainly) have tossed Gothard under the bus.  Gil Bates is one of the remaining members of the Board of Directors who are refusing to reinstate him as President.  I refer to it as a coup.  The BoD is definitely condemning the women, however.  The internal "investigation" of the claims was a farce.  That is a big part of the lawsuit.

On 5/19/2016 at 11:15 PM, theinvisiblegirl said:

And do you think the Bateses kids know about this because Gil is involved?

Yes. The older ones probably know a lot. Gil Bates is involved up to his neck as is Chad Paine's father, Stephen, who is also on what remains of the BoD.  

At the very least, Chad and Erin have spent much time working at Headquarters and attending and serving as leaders at JTTH.  Brandon still works for IBLP.  The adult children must all talk about the changes, why HQ is moving to Big Sandy, and so on.  Whether they also condemn the female (and male) victims is not known but certainly none of them have spoken publicly about the lawsuit. Yet.

[theinvisiblegirl]

Thanks for all of this, @Palimpsest. I guess I never thought about the fact that they had probably and/or definitely thrown him personally under the bus. Your wording about Gil being one of the remaining members that refuse to reinstate Gothard alarms me; what kind of asshole would think about reinstating him in the first place? Oh, right, an insane fundie.

It's just crazy how they could still stand by IBLP but not him. A Gothard-established program with Gothard-approved materials of all variations, and you think IBLP is still a good thing, people? Run as fast as you can from IBLP, fundies!

[Palimpsest]

23 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

what kind of asshole would think about reinstating him in the first place?

I know!  It seems that the whole BoD signed off on the farcical investigation.  The results were bad enough for Gothard that the board wanted him gone "temporarily."  Then 3 members of the board (York, Paine, and Bates) decided to dump Gothard permanently as a liability - or because they wanted IBLP for themselves.  The rest of the board wanted him reinstated and resigned in protest.  That lot are still supporting him.

I miswrote.  Erin Bates has sort of commented on this indirectly.  @formergothardite may be able to find the exact quote, which is escaping me right now.  Erin said that (she and Chad) were not connected to ATI in a fairly beautiful example of Fundie double-speak.  Of course they are not connected to ATI at this precise moment - they don't have children of homeschooling age.  They could still be IBLP up to their chins.  I'll believe that they have left IBLP when they denounce Gothard.

To bring this back to topic - possibly some of the younger generation can't speak out at the moment because they have been subpoenaed as witnesses - on either side.  I'd love to see David Waller on the witness stand personally.  If he was Gothard's PA (and I think that he was) he should have seen a lot.

[theinvisiblegirl]

1 minute ago, Palimpsest said:

I know!  It seems that the whole BoD signed off on the farcical investigation.  The results were bad enough for Gothard that the board wanted him gone "temporarily."  Then 3 members of the board (York, Paine, and Bates) decided to dump Gothard permanently as a liability - or because they wanted IBLP for themselves.  The rest of the board wanted him reinstated and resigned in protest.  That lot are still supporting him.

I miswrote.  Erin Bates has sort of commented on this indirectly.  @formergothardite may be able to find the exact quote, which is escaping me right now.  Erin said that (she and Chad) were not connected to ATI in a fairly beautiful example of Fundie double-speak.  Of course they are not connected to ATI at this precise moment - they don't have children of homeschooling age.  They could still be IBLP up to their chins.  I'll believe that they have left IBLP when they denounce Gothard.

To bring this back to topic - possibly some of the younger generation can't speak out at the moment because they have been subpoenaed as witnesses - on either side.  I'd love to see David Waller on the witness stand personally.  If he was Gothard's PA (and I think that he was) he should have seen a lot.

I remember the comments on Erin's Instagram post from both herself and Lawson. Their current connection really does remain to be seen, I believe. And with two fathers that are still on the board, you're obviously kind of still connected to ATI and IBLP unless you renounce it outright.

I'd love to see TFDW on the stand. He has to know a lot about the goings on of the church, especially if he was working so closely with Gothard.

[Granwych]

18 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I know!  It seems that the whole BoD signed off on the farcical investigation.  The results were bad enough for Gothard that the board wanted him gone "temporarily."  Then 3 members of the board (York, Paine, and Bates) decided to dump Gothard permanently as a liability - or because they wanted IBLP for themselves.  The rest of the board wanted him reinstated and resigned in protest.  That lot are still supporting him.

I miswrote.  Erin Bates has sort of commented on this indirectly.  @formergothardite may be able to find the exact quote, which is escaping me right now.  Erin said that (she and Chad) were not connected to ATI in a fairly beautiful example of Fundie double-speak.  Of course they are not connected to ATI at this precise moment - they don't have children of homeschooling age.  They could still be IBLP up to their chins.  I'll believe that they have left IBLP when they denounce Gothard.

To bring this back to topic - possibly some of the younger generation can't speak out at the moment because they have been subpoenaed as witnesses - on either side.  I'd love to see David Waller on the witness stand personally.  If he was Gothard's PA (and I think that he was) he should have seen a lot.

If Waller has seen a lot, then he'll be lying or obfuscating a lot.  CYA.

[gustava]

4 hours ago, Granwych said:

f Waller has seen a lot, then he'll be lying or obfuscating a lot.  CYA.

I kinda wonder about this.  He seems to me to be the kind of person who goes through life wearing blinders.  He could have walked in when GotHard had his hand up some girl's dress and literally not have seen it.

[Palimpsest]

19 hours ago, gustava said:

He could have walked in when GotHard had his hand up some girl's dress and literally not have seen it.

Ha!  He probably thought it was totes OK for Gothard to have a bed in his office and "counsel" vulnerable young women who were already victims of sexual abuse in there too.

I think David Waller was in a position to know about the accusations of sexual misconduct and the inadequate measures taken by by the board.  I'd love to see him trying to spin things in the witness box.

Others may disagree, but I think the Pecan Thief is clever.  Clever enough to dump loyalty to Gothard to save his own skin and career anyway.  He's obviously thrown his lot in with the BoD - what is left of it.

[Jasmar]

Huh. Well, G3 was dumped, according to an update at Homeschoolers Anonymous. I wonder what halogens next, and how this will impact the plaintiffs' lawsuit. I hope well. :-/

[Palimpsest]

 

58 minutes ago, Jasmar said:

Well, G3 was dumped,

Here's the link.  https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/23/lead-attorney-for-plaintiffs-disqualified-from-bill-gothard-sex-abuse-case/

Yup, Gibbs III AKA G3 screwed up - big time.  Here is hoping that all victims learn from this and no longer retain him.  His actions fucked Bill Gothard's victims over - yet again.  

I regret having ever given G3 the benefit of the doubt.

My thoughts are with the victims of Bill Gothard and the sick institution he set up.  I hope their lawsuit is not too badly compromised and another law firm can step up and take the case.

 

 

[Coconut Flan]

I hope they've been looking for future representation while waiting.  Maybe G3 needs to find a different area of practice or perhaps a different line of work entirely.

[RosyDaisy]

This was a setup from the get go. I'm convinced of that now. Fuck you, G3 and fuck you Gothard, IBLP, and BoD! I hope every single one of you burn in Hell!

[Jasmar]

It sure smells that way. Makes me wish even harder that there wasn't likely a gag order surrounding DPIAT. 

[marmalade]

4 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I hope they've been looking for future representation while waiting.  Maybe G3 needs to find a different area of practice or perhaps a different line of work entirely.

Agreed. He screwed up Lourdes' case as well. 

[Manda]

Too bad the judge didn't appear to think it was definitely a breach of ethics.  

[marmalade]

I hope the state bar looks into his duplicitous actions. He should be disbarred. 

[Granwych]

10 hours ago, Coconut Flan said:

I hope they've been looking for future representation while waiting.  Maybe G3 needs to find a different area of practice or perhaps a different line of work entirely.

He can go take care of the Naugler shitpile.

[formergothardite]

I really hope that they can find someone really good who can help take down Gothard and IBLP and that this whole situation won't hurt their case. 

G3 seems like just a bad person. 

[Palimpsest]

In the last paragraph of the judge's disqualification letter he says that 2 other attorneys have appeared for the plaintiffs.   I expect one of them will have to take the lead. 

Paging FJ's real attorneys:   How harmful is all this to the case? 

@RosyDaisy I'm not sure it was a set-up - if by set-up you mean a deliberate conspiracy between Gibbseses, IBLP and Gothard to have G3 take the case and screw it up.  I'm not going to go quite that far -although it is tempting.

It certainly looks like really bad and unethical lawyering on G3's part.  I think he should be reported to the Bar for ethical violations too.

 

 

[apple1]

I admit - I also WANTED to believe that G3 had turned over a new leaf when he separated from his dad, and that he was going to represent the BG victims well. I personally have a weak characteristic of wanting to believe that people are better than they sometimes actually are.

I was wrong in this case.

I hope other attorneys take over this case and are able to represent the victims well.