Bill Gothard, God, and sexual molestation

[Palimpsest]

Gretchen has posted in the comments at HA.

Quote

We are all feeling upside-down. So many emotions. Please keep us in your thoughts as we try to figure out what is in front of us. Thank you

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/23/lead-attorney-for-plaintiffs-disqualified-from-bill-gothard-sex-abuse-case/

 

[Dark Matters]

Some additional background on Gibbs III at HA.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/24/the-fixer/

Through his National Center for Life and Liberty (NCLL), Gibbs III has positioned himself as an advocate for the abused as well as an individual sensitive and empathetic to those injured by Christian fundamentalism. As Gibbs III told HA’s Ryan Stollar in January of this year, “I vehemently oppose child abuse and those that cover it up with a passion, and I believe that organizations that emotionally, psychologically, physically, or sexually abuse children should be prosecuted and shut down.” Now that he has become one of the primary business partners of the Great Homeschool Conventions, the largest for-profit homeschool convention company in the United States, Gibbs III’s platform and reach is spreading.[x]

Yet some have questioned this positive image of Gibbs III. Despite his current advocacy for survivors, he spent decades doing the exact opposite: serving as a fixer for abusers and defending leaders who spread Christian fundamentalism. Through his work and leadership with his father David C. Gibbs Jr.’s organization, the Christian Law Association (CLA), Gibbs III built a career out of defending accused child abusers. And as recently as last year, Gibbs presented sermons at churches arguing that not only parents, but schools, churches, and even complete strangers have a “fundamental right” to child corporal punishment—which he referred to as “child-beating.”[xi]

This discrepancy has raised concerns. Gibbs III’s current NCLL website makes no mention of his involvement with the CLA, including the fact that he was their general counsel. In his interview with HA blog partner Julie Anne Smith on May 26, 2014, he completely separated his father and the CLA’s work from his own work, making it seem that he was not involved with the former.[xii] However, when pressed on this matter, Gibbs III told HA, “I worked with my father and did legal work for CLA from 1993-2012.”

The discrepancies do not end there. Gibbs III indicated to Smith that he was happily married. However, public records show that his wife filed divorce papers against him later that year. The divorce was finalized in July 2015. Furthermore, Gibbs III indicated to Smith that he was never involved in any domestic disputes. However, public records show a dispute in 2013 between him and Texas Child Protective Services.

[RosyDaisy]

Like I said, this was a setup. Just the very fact that a father and son are on opposing sides of this lawsuit should have a clue. Never underestimate the power of family dynamics, even family members seem to be on the outs.

[Palimpsest]

50 minutes ago, Dark Matters said:

Some additional background on Gibbs III at HA.

https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/05/24/the-fixer/

Through his National Center for Life and Liberty (NCLL), Gibbs III has positioned himself as an advocate for the abused as well as an individual sensitive and empathetic to those injured by Christian fundamentalism. As Gibbs III told HA’s Ryan Stollar in January of this year, “I vehemently oppose child abuse and those that cover it up with a passion, and I believe that organizations that emotionally, psychologically, physically, or sexually abuse children should be prosecuted and shut down.” Now that he has become one of the primary business partners of the Great Homeschool Conventions, the largest for-profit homeschool convention company in the United States, Gibbs III’s platform and reach is spreading.[x]

Yet some have questioned this positive image of Gibbs III. Despite his current advocacy for survivors, he spent decades doing the exact opposite: serving as a fixer for abusers and defending leaders who spread Christian fundamentalism. Through his work and leadership with his father David C. Gibbs Jr.’s organization, the Christian Law Association (CLA), Gibbs III built a career out of defending accused child abusers. And as recently as last year, Gibbs presented sermons at churches arguing that not only parents, but schools, churches, and even complete strangers have a “fundamental right” to child corporal punishment—which he referred to as “child-beating.”[xi]

This discrepancy has raised concerns. Gibbs III’s current NCLL website makes no mention of his involvement with the CLA, including the fact that he was their general counsel. In his interview with HA blog partner Julie Anne Smith on May 26, 2014, he completely separated his father and the CLA’s work from his own work, making it seem that he was not involved with the former.[xii] However, when pressed on this matter, Gibbs III told HA, “I worked with my father and did legal work for CLA from 1993-2012.”

The discrepancies do not end there. Gibbs III indicated to Smith that he was happily married. However, public records show that his wife filed divorce papers against him later that year. The divorce was finalized in July 2015. Furthermore, Gibbs III indicated to Smith that he was never involved in any domestic disputes. However, public records show a dispute in 2013 between him and Texas Child Protective Services.

That is a really good article summarizing G3's past advocacy for abusers and enablers of child abuse.  Most of this we already knew although some of us were definitely hoping he had changed his ways.

Bolded 1: An FJer heard Gibbs speak on preventing child sexual abuse at a Homeschooling conference and wasn't impressed.  I'm still looking for the thread.

Bolded 2:    Yuck!  I wish HA had a link.

Bolded 3:  He did indeed.  Liar.

Bolded 4:  He also had an arrest for Domestic Battery against  his (now) former wife in FL, prior to 2012 (I can't remember the exact year.)  She withdrew the change and he had the record expunged.  His mug shot used to be on the Florida arrests and inmates site.  Wish we had screen shots.

All in all.  He's a real peach. 

[hoipolloi]

If they choose to do so, can't one or more of his former clients make a formal complaint to his state bar association? Given the judge's ruling, it seems as if they'd have ammo to do so.

In my area, those types of lawyerly malfeasance are taken seriously & the disciplinary arm of the bar can lower the hammer on the culprit -- a range of punishments from fines to license suspension or even revocation.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

Is this guy based out of FL?  Gibbs III that is.  I've seen an office close to me with his name on it.  In a quick google search of him, he defended Chuck Phelps in a rape case and was the attorney who represented Terri Schaivo's family parents (also a local case).  Sorry if this is old news, but I can't believe the local connections.  He's also attached to an old frenemie of mine who now works at a sketchy wayward girls home (frenemie is recently out of prison and has no credentials to be doing such work, other than she's a "good Christian").  

[Palimpsest]

Julie Anne's take on this here:  https://spiritualsoundingboard.com/2016/05/24/attorney-representing-victims-of-bill-gothard-disqualified-support-for-survivors/#comments

I think she is way too generous to Gibbs 3 (I really don't find his behavior and career very "Christian") but I agree with most of it.  The plaintiffs certainly need support and encouragement.

@hoipolloi  If Julie Anne is right that the plaintiffs did not know G3 was negotiating with Gothard with the goal of reinstating him - then I'm sure they have grounds for complaint.  Quite aside from his shady behavior - also grounds for complaint, IM (non-legal)O.

@Tim-Tom Biblethumper - interesting.  He used to live in FL and may still have an office there, IDK.  He seems to have moved to TX and NCLL is based there. http://www.ncll.org/about/david-gibbs-iii-president 

Did you see the HA article linked above by @Dark Matters?  It has a lot of information on Gibbs 3's shady career over the years.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

4 minutes ago, Palimpsest said:

@Tim-Tom Biblethumper - interesting.  He used to live in FL and may still have an office there, IDK.  He seems to have moved to TX and NCLL is based there. http://www.ncll.org/about/david-gibbs-iii-president 

I did a little more looking.  It appears he sold his big home and bought a condo in April of this year.  He's not claiming homestead exemption, so that could mean his main residence is elsewhere.  
I'm way above middle-age, lived here my entire life, and never realized the fundie connections.  Mike Schadt lives right up the road from me!  
And I thought Scientology was all I needed to be concerned about.  
Thanks for the link, going to read now...

[apple1]

26 minutes ago, Tim-Tom Biblethumper said:

I did a little more looking.  It appears he sold his big home and bought a condo in April of this year.  He's not claiming homestead exemption, so that could mean his main residence is elsewhere.  
I'm way above middle-age, lived here my entire life, and never realized the fundie connections.  Mike Schadt lives right up the road from me!  
And I thought Scientology was all I needed to be concerned about.  
Thanks for the link, going to read now...

That's G3 - of Phelps defense (I think that one may have been prior to the break up from his Dad) and Schiavo fame.

If it makes you feel any better - his father, of Christian Law Association, defender of all things HAC related and many others - has an office less than a mile from my house. I have actually, however, thankfully, never run into him in my community.

[Taters]

RL Stollar from Homeschoolers Anonymous has done an astounding job of exposing the whole of Gibbs 3's doings.

[SilverBeach]

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/July-2016/Institute-in-Basic-Life-Principles-Hinsdale/

Really good article with timeline. I still cannot believe that I lived in the same suburb as Gothard. Such a creepy freak.

[formergothardite]

I read that and it was a good article, but it frustrates me to no end that the Bates family wasn't front and center as being involved with this too. The Duggars were included, but the Bates are the ones who really are deeply involved with Gothard and the covering up of abuse.  I couldn't figure any way to contact the person who wrote it to ask why he didn't include them. The Bates don't need to keep getting away with keeping their squeaky clean, family friendly image. 

[DaisyD]

I posted in the comments. It says they're moderated. Hopefully the author will see it.

[formergothardite]

In a bit I'm going to search more for a way to contact him, I'm sure there is. There really needs to be more coverage that includes the Bates. 

[Cleopatra7]

Libby Anne linked this article, and I thought FJ would be interested in it:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/July-2016/Institute-in-Basic-Life-Principles-Hinsdale/?utm_campaign=Chimag+cult+6-20-16&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com

I'm only just started it, but it looks great, noting the weird, Stepford teens who intern at IBLP headquarters, the abuse allegations, and the Duggar connection.

[SilverBeach]

I posted this article earlier today in the IBLP lawsuit thread . It is a good read.

[Howl]

11 hours ago, Cleopatra7 said:

Libby Anne linked this article, and I thought FJ would be interested in it:

http://www.chicagomag.com/Chicago-Magazine/July-2016/Institute-in-Basic-Life-Principles-Hinsdale/?utm_campaign=Chimag+cult+6-20-16&utm_medium=referral&utm_source=facebook.com

I'm only just started it, but it looks great, noting the weird, Stepford teens who intern at IBLP headquarters, the abuse allegations, and the Duggar connection.

In that article, the picture of Gothard sitting in a chair surrounded by young women is off the charts for creep factor and basically tells you all you need to know.  

What an utterly repellent human being. 

 

[DaisyD]

That one looks like pictures of every polygamist leader from the same era. It took me a second to realize I was 8 a Gothard thread when I saw it.

[THERetroGamerNY]

Over at Homeschooler's Anon there is a series being run about Bill Gothard's disgusting justification for why God allows sexual abuse.

They started this series after being provided copies of the actual worksheet.

TL;DR summary of Gothard's sick logic: God allows it in order to teach you a lesson.

[Funwithfundies]

This might be the most f-ed up thing I've seen on FJ (and that's saying a lot...).

[Bad Wolf]

No. Just no. The boy is 4. Memorizing Bible verses is not going to help.

[Palimpsest]

Homeschoolers Anonymous is doing a really good job with this series.  Thanks for posting @THERetroGamerNY.

Link to the first article:  https://homeschoolersanonymous.org/2016/08/09/gothard-explains-why-god-allows-child-molestation-part-i/

And adding a link to the last FJ thread about the BG/IBLP lawsuit for additional context.

(removed link due to circular reference - threads were merged)

[SrMaryEloquentia]

@THERetroGamerNY thank you for posting, I just have a really hard time upvoting this sick sh....

#10 strikes me as especially dangerous, most abuse cases happen in the very close circle of family and "caring adults" that is supposedly safe. 

But then, now we can all turn to page 1 to learn why this whole abuse thing wasn't so bad after all. 

[nickelodeon]

Of course, molestation is only something "other children" and "sodomites" do, never the trusted church leaders you've sent your girls to work for...

[AliceInFundyland]

That shouldn't even be a thing...'justification for why God allows sexual abuse' ??