Who is your worst? And Why?

[Marshmallow World]

I'd have to say Donald Trump - you know, because he's "saved" now 

Nah for real, it's gotta be the Pearls for me, followed closely by Gary and Anne Marie Ezzo. The Ezzos "teachings" were the ones that impacted me the most during childhood, and they are evil, evil people. And I gotta throw James Dobson in there, too. He can kiss this former strong-willed child's ass. Being strong willed is awesome. 

[Jana814]

I think the very worst is Michael Pearl for the reasons that were stated above. 

However for me I think that Steve Maxwell and Anderson are tied for second. 

[Geechee Girl]

In no particular order:

Robert Hale

Warren Jeffs

The Jeubs

The Pearls

[Dandruff]

I wish all of these so-called parents could be made subject to a new set of rules and their own advocated forms of discipline.

[Bbfamteam]

1. Pearl family--they get top billing because of the child abuse deaths that Michael seems to find humorous, spousal rape, etc

2. Tie between Warren Jeffs, Gothard, the Tool for their enjoyment of sexual abuse and harassment while hiding behind a ministry

3. PP, who IMO is an insane hateful time bomb just waiting for the opportunity to steal #1 on this list

[Hisey]

9 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

I don't follow as many as some on here do.  I'm only vaguely familiar with Jill Rod, The Pearls, the Naughlers, and the Maxwells.  I don't want to fall down any more rabbit holes at this moment.

My least favorite would be Erika Shupe.  While other fundies have some crazy ass views and beliefs (that are borderline dangerous), I think that deep down they love their kids.

On the other hand, Erika reminds me of someone who cares about the surface.  She cares so much about her image, kids are only an accessory to make her life seem like a 50s sitcom to her.  She so badly wants to be this perfect quiverfull wife, that she thinks of having more kids without caring about the ones she has (but it's ok, just make them sleep in the closet).  If she had to choose between her image and her children, she would choose her image.  

Her control-freak tendencies come at the cost of her children's livelihood.  Because she is consistently on a 'diet' and wants to eat 'healthy' her kids must too.  Her homeschooling is not because she genuinely wants to educate her children, it is to control them.  Her date nights eating takeout and making her kids watch is downright cruel.

My mom's worst qualities are very Erika like.  Especially when it comes to food and the image of a perfect looking home.  To this day, I have food issues from my childhood and have the tendency to hide and guard my food like a dog.  Seeing LFOP brought back many flashbacks.

Also with some of these other fundies, they at least let their kids reach certain milestones at an age-appropriate level.  For example, the Duggar and Bates kids start driving around the age that the state deems appropriate.  Karen Shupe is almost 18 and is just learning to drive.  The Duggars realize that what applies to Josie does not apply to Jana.   When the Howlers supervise courting siblings on dates, they're paid in cash not jellybeans.

I agree and disagree. Remember, the Duggar kids used to get paid three cents a chore. I always thought it was insulting, three cents to change a baby's diaper. Only an isolated 12-year old, with no other options, would agree to this (though I don't think they had the option to disagree).

I agree with your thoughts about Erika and her mind games. I always liked that the Duggars allowed both boys and girls to get their license at the appropriate time. Then they were trusted to drive really big vehicles,  They were encouraged to acquire skills, like when Joe and his brothers put together those bunk beds by themselves, and JB only checked the connections. The skills they learned were mostly gender-specific, but at least they were allowed to take chances and do real things.

Erika is too afraid to let her kids out of her sight, to let them learn anything other than household chores. She talks about "raising real boys", but she'd never allow them to play in the mud, let alone use power tools (or any of the other things a "real boy" would do, according to fundie logic). They are home, and kept painfully clean all the time. No really, those kids always look SO CLEAN.

I don't think she's the worst, but I do agree that those mind games she plays can be very damaging.

[Tim-Tom Biblethumper]

My "worst" is fluid.  But right now it would have to be Steve Anderson (PP) & Lori Alexander.  They're both awful, the overwhelming majority of people tell them so, and they just keep plugging along, getting more and more offensive with time.  Doesn't the dissent EVER make them question what they're doing?
I'd like to give honorable mention to the Duggars for the mere fact that their influence is so far reaching with the specials and TV show.  I wonder how many converts they've brought into the IBLP (knowingly or otherwise).

[NeverQuivered]

5 hours ago, Hisey said:

 

Erika is too afraid to let her kids out of her sight, to let them learn anything other than household chores. She talks about "raising real boys", but she'd never allow them to play in the mud, let alone use power tools (or any of the other things a "real boy" would do, according to fundie logic). They are home, and kept painfully clean all the time. No really, those kids always look SO CLEAN.

 

This made me envision a fundie version of the show "Wife Swap". The Shupes and the Nauglers. I think Erica would have a nervous breakdown at the shitstead with those dirty feral children. I can picture it in my mind and it is grand. 

[meee]

I have a hard time thinking of a lot of these people as being "worst" because I think, misguided as they may be, they mean well and really do think their controlling nature is better than the outside world.

That said......

Steve Anderson, hands down.  I can't even bring myself to listen to his sermons, ever, because the written version is bad enough.  I really honestly think he's going to kill someone someday.

Jill Rodrigues.  I don't even know what is up with her.

The Duggars.  I wouldn't have said this a year and a half ago, but now that we see what sinister things they're hiding, I think they are rotten to the core and quite literally putting on a show.

Erika Shupe.  What I said above about extreme control being better than the outside world, I don't think it applies to her, I think she's just lazy and wants her home to run itself (with the help of Karen and Melanie) so she doesn't have to do anything.

I don't follow the Jeubs or the Alexanders or the Pearls or Lady Lydia or the S'Mortons or the Shraders, or probably a whole lot of other people that y'all talk about here, so can't speak for them.

[imokit]

The Pearls for me - not only are they vile but they've written an instruction manual for how to abuse your children and how to be a victim of abuse.  As far as I know, they're they only ones we talk about directly responsible for deaths.

 

With regards to the Shupes, although I don't deny they're crazy there are signs in their favor.  While I have no doubt she tried to beat the will out of those kids, she wasn't tough/vicous enough to succeed.  She's posted about struggles with her kids, and there are signs that the oldest ones are forcing her to lighten up.  A few years ago her girls weren't going to drive while in her house because there was no need, now her eldest is learning to drive (late, but its a change), her eldest is also working in a secular gym.  However psycho and controlling she is, those kids are well cared for, all have there own beds, and toys and they do get treats like ice cream and games sometimes.  She didn't beat the will out of them (though I conceed she almost certainly tried), the way the other families discussed have, and there are signs that she may be loosening the reigns on them in response to pressure both from them and from outside.  (She's also letting her teen girls wear nice fitted jeans to a public park and when her youngest girls got jealous of the superhero capes she made for their brothers, she made them capes too, one of her boys genuinely needed less sleep then the other kids so she adapted his schedule).  She may be an emotionally abusive control freak, but she's the only fundie we discuss here who does occasionally respond and change the rules in response to her children's needs.  Which in my book puts her years ahead of the rest of them.

 

Clarification - I'm not leg humping Erika, I think she's awful, but I'm saying she isn't currently in the league of the others on this page - Nuglers, Duggars - covering up sexual abuse, Andersons & Alexanders advocating for kids to be beaten and of the course the Pears who make a profit of teaching people how to abuse children.

[theinvisiblegirl]

18 hours ago, 19 cats and counting said:

<snip>

Also with some of these other fundies, they at least let their kids reach certain milestones at an age-appropriate level.  For example, the Duggar and Bates kids start driving around the age that the state deems appropriate.  Karen Shupe is almost 18 and is just learning to drive.  The Duggars realize that what applies to Josie does not apply to Jana.   When the Howlers supervise courting siblings on dates, they're paid in cash not jellybeans.

I'm 21 and only just got a learner's permit 2 weeks ago. I've been driving once since I got it. Not because I was raised sheltered or had no one to teach me, but because I have a genuine fear of getting behind the wheel that I'm very slowly working to overcome; not an easy task when sitting behind the wheel throws one into a panic attack. Plus I think the age states deem appropriate are too young to be driving. I'm not defending the Shupes (mainly because I haven't fallen down their rabbit hole yet so I have no reason to "like" them when I don't even know who they are), but I can't find it in me to snark on anyone who doesn't drive.

[Jana814]

9 minutes ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

I'm 21 and only just got a learner's permit 2 weeks ago. I've been driving once since I got it. Not because I was raised sheltered or had no one to teach me, but because I have a genuine fear of getting behind the wheel that I'm very slowly working to overcome; not an easy task when sitting behind the wheel throws one into a panic attack. Plus I think the age states deem appropriate are too young to be driving. I'm not defending the Shupes (mainly because I haven't fallen down their rabbit hole yet so I have no reason to "like" them when I don't even know who they are), but I can't find it in me to snark on anyone who doesn't drive.

Good luck with learning to drive. I'm going to be 36 been driving for  18 years.  I only like driving on local roads no highways for me. Lucky all my dog clients are local to me so no highways. 

[JMarie]

This is like picking a favorite ice cream flavor!  Aren't they all my favorite??

The Pearls, because their methods kill innocent kids

The Andersons, because they're so obnoxious and litigious, and because Zsu actually went to a real college and should know better

The Duggars, because they're minimizing Josh's actions (and God knows what else)

The Jeubs, because they haven't done a good job at raising Godly Adult Children (though that's actually a plus for the children)

 

[Hisey]

5 hours ago, theinvisiblegirl said:

I'm 21 and only just got a learner's permit 2 weeks ago. I've been driving once since I got it. Not because I was raised sheltered or had no one to teach me, but because I have a genuine fear of getting behind the wheel that I'm very slowly working to overcome; not an easy task when sitting behind the wheel throws one into a panic attack. Plus I think the age states deem appropriate are too young to be driving. I'm not defending the Shupes (mainly because I haven't fallen down their rabbit hole yet so I have no reason to "like" them when I don't even know who they are), but I can't find it in me to snark on anyone who doesn't drive.

My parents were destructive and horrible about my driving, so I developed a terrible fear of driving which I overcame at age 27. So I don't mean to imply anything about adults learning to drive.

I do like, though, that the Duggars seem to take a casual, "you can do it" approach to youthful driving. And driving does give those kids some measure of independence, which they desperately need. In the Shupe household, driving will mean that Karen can take herself to Safeway and buy herself a full bag of chips! It means defiance against Erika's control. Ha, ha, Erika--maybe she's buying an extra bag of chips to share with her sibs. Nothing you can do about it.

I have a teenage driver now myself and I completely agree that 16 is often way too young to be alone on the roads with a car. It has been very hard for me to give my teenager the keys to the car (she still only drives locally, but she'd love to change that). I do think though, that I'd rather she learn with me, during her few remaining years at home, than on the roads by herself as an adult. People don't cut you much slack when you make stupid mistakes as an adult.

I think the laws are written the way they are because some teens need to drive to earn money for college or their family, or their parents are so dysfunctional that the teens are taking younger sibs to the doctor, school, etc.

I think it's good that Jinger Duggar can get behind the wheel of a giant bus and drive her family to another state. That must give her confidence. As opposed to Erika Shupe, who was saying "Oh, you're not ready yet." to 17-year Karen.

Good for you, Invisible Girl, for overcoming that fear!

[FundieFarmer]

Some of be fundies are the worst in a "haha, you're so bad it's almost amusing" way- like Jill Rodrigues.

But the ones who give me goosebumps and chills to think about their pure evil are Lori and Ken, the Pearls, and Bill Gothard. No, no thank you.

[ladyamylynn]

Maybe the dopey barely-legal "elders" from the church of Wells. Something awful is going to happen there. Definitely agree about Warren Jeffs too.

[Lillybee]

i will throw Rusty Yates into this mess. He knew Andrea should be medicated. He knew she shouldn't have another child. He knew she shouldn't be alone with their children. But because of his religion, he disregarded all that and it ended with five dead kids.

[alexandracabot]

I honestly can't believe people think the Nauglers, howver terrible parents they are and however dirty their house is, are worse than people like the Pearls (who have caused the murder of several children) or the Andersons (who laughed at the murder of the "pedophiles" in Orlando). Seriously? No.

[19 cats and counting]

Most of my hatred for Erika comes from growing up with a mother who sometimes showed similar tendenceis.  When I first fell down the rabbit hole, I heard my mom's voice as I read the posts.  She's what my mother wishes she could be.  Her obsession with neatness/order and controlling her kids through food deprivation were things I dealt with growing up.  Also the part about the older kids doing little kid activities.  In 5th grade, the only music I was allowed to listen to were little kid songs (Wheels on the bus, Mary had a Little Lamb, etc).

Deep down there's a lot of shit going on in that household.  But Erika paints a picture of a nice happy household and I know there's shit because my mom was the same way.

I'm nowhere near as sheltered or uneducated as Karen Shupe is but I did have some similarities.  I didn't have any similarities to other fundie families, so it's personal experience talking.

I'm in no way doubting that the Pearls, Maxwells, Naughlers, etc aren't terrible, but for the most part I haven't fallen down those rabbit holes.  Erika just strikes a nerve with me because of my background.  If you gave steroids to my mother (and many more kids) she'd be Erika.

[Queen Of Hearts]

On 6/24/2016 at 8:18 PM, Queen Of Hearts said:

Bill Gothard.  He is in a position of power and influence and has molested minors.  That makes him evil in my book.  Other fundies may say crap, or even do crap, but he is the only one I can think of who single handedly grew the movement and has also behaved in a perverted way. Doug Phillips The Tool runs a close second, but Gothard has a bigger following and a longer list of victims so he wins.

I forgot about Warren Jeffs. He is definitely #1, due to the fact that I am pretty sure he has made people 'disappear' in addition to all his other fuckery.  Gothard is #2 and the Tool is #3.  'll give Michael Pearl an honorable mention as he is pretty terrible, too.

[SilverBeach]

27 minutes ago, Queen Of Hearts said:

I forgot about Warren Jeffs. He is definitely #1, due to the fact that I am pretty sure he has made people 'disappear' in addition to all his other fuckery. 

The baby graveyard...so hauntingly sad. They never even had a chance. And the audio of him sexually abusing his twelve year old child bride...this man is truly a monster.

[ALM7]

Lt. Col. Robert Thieme Jr. (Berachah Church - Houston Tx.)

RT Jr. is deceased, his son RB Thieme III took over the ministry in 2003.  My first exposure to Thieme was decades ago, through a friend that was military. My friend was a West Point grad, Agnostic, had a well-balanced life.  Over the course of time he dramatically changed.  Out of pure curiosity, I listened to the many tapes that completely changed his life.  RT Jr. had a very dangerous message, and was a master manipulator. I feel RT Jr. was a major component ushering in the concept of Authoritarian Patriarchy and Dominion Theology.  RT Jr. wasn’t in it for the money, it was all about control and power, he demanded absolute blind obedience.  Many leaders of the Patriarchy movement are light-weights compared to this man.

Intro link below gives a brief synopsis of the dangerous nature of RB ThiemeJr.

http://www.internetmonk.com/archive/whatever-happened-to-r-b-thieme

VP Dan Quayle, through his wife’s family, was tied to the teachings of Thieme. I include this link to give perspective concerning the influence of Thieme.  I remember the GHW Bush Administration doing damage control when the Quayle/Thieme connection made the mainstream media.
http://www.adherents.com/people/pq/Dan_Quayle.html

To sum it up, the Robert Thieme Jr. Ministry was (is) a dangerous fundamentalist organization that surely destroyed many generations of families. I only assume his son has followed in his father’s footsteps.  

Are there any FJ members that have experiences/knowledge of this ministry they feel comfortable sharing? 

[MakeitSew]

Wow, I had not thought about RB Thieme in years. 

My mother had a rather dramatic conversion when she was in her teens and credited Thieme with her change. (It was so dramatic a change it concerned both of my grandparents, and my grandpa forbade her from attending church. She went anyway, of course.) 

As a child I listened to cassette tape sermons from Thieme along with my mom. We had our Bibles and notebooks to take notes. As I grew older, I was required to listen to a Thieme taped sermon every weekday as part of my Bible time. I don't really remember now what I was taught, but I do remember how he singled out and publicly shamed anyone in the audience who he felt wasn't listening. Girls whispering to their neighbors, looking at a boy, doing anything except listening with rapt attention to what he was saying. 

I still have some of his booklets on my bookshelf. I'll have to pull them out now and see what I think of him, 10+ years out from my last experience listening to a sermon or going over one of his books. 

[JenniferJuniper]

Zsu.  She's terrifying because she should be sane. There are times she sounds completely rational.   And yet she's every bit as nuts as her deranged headship. (who hopefully is being monitored as a potential domestic terrorist).

I see J-Rod as comic relief, but I feel guilty about that when I see her poor kids and her broken and crippled sister who used to be normal like everyone else but now has the most severely broken neck any doctor has ever seen.

Honorable mention to Rick Arndt because he's so damn good at making his isolated, stunted, elderly slave-kids appear to be well-adjusted.

[Jucifer]

 

All of the people who have been mentioned up thread really deserve to be on the list of the world's worst.

I would add L. Ron Hubbard to the list. 

I love (really good and/or really bad) horror movies.  I can appreciate them because I know monsters in movies are not real.

LRH, Warren Jeffs and the Pearls are real.  These are the monsters who keep me up at night.