Kaci Lynn is here - Whitney and Zach's 2nd baby

[Nashville92]

I have a female OB/GYN, I'm just more comfortable with female doctors all around.  On the episode Whitney got induced because Dr. Vick said if the version didn't take he would proceed with a C-Section.  She was in labor for quite a while but had an epidural.  

[candygirl200413]

I wonder though they prefer male because a male would be looking there anyway cause heteronormative while a women should be ya know not being working by any means in their eyes. My mom only has had male ob/gyns but suggested for me to get a female one, my sister has also gone to just men until now.

[colors_outside15]

I know it's a small thing in comparison to what was an episode about two people very much wanting to have a baby, and then having a healthy child together, but it really rubbed me the wrong way that Kelly made a comment (in what I thought was a judgmental/condescending tone) about Whitney wanting the whole family together right after delivering Kaci. Whitney's gone through so many changes in three years, and endured them earlier in her life as well. We don't know exactly what happened, but she left her parent's house for the Owen's and went from there to Zach to letting her parents back into her life, but not the Owen's, to having two children all in what ... three years ... less than? Under those conditions, where Whitney knows exactly what it's like to lose parents, I would want my child back as quickly as possible too. For all the IBLP/ATI flaws (which I could go on and on about), I cannot blame a mother for wanting both her children together after giving birth.

[Coconut Flan]

I didn't hear any condescending tone from Kelly but more understanding amusement.  I thought Kelly did a good thing of getting out of Dodge soon after the birth and at least keeping the horde at home until the next day. Perhaps they all shouldn't have visited at the hospital as a group anyway.  I'm with Alyssa on keep the huge gang away for a couple of weeks.

[Mela99]

So, serious non-snarky question here. What's with the little pearl bracelet Kaci has on? Is that a religious thing? Teething thing? Or is baby jewelry something people actually buy? I honestly have no idea.....

[Casserole]

34 minutes ago, Mela99 said:

So, serious non-snarky question here. What's with the little pearl bracelet Kaci has on? Is that a religious thing? Teething thing? Or is baby jewelry something people actually buy? I honestly have no idea.....

I received one as a gift on my baptism day (around 3 months old) along with a claddagh cross necklace from my godparents. I wore it for pictures on the day of my baptism and it was promptly removed since it's a choking hazard. We found it again when preparing for my Holy Communion and I could only get my fingers in it. I got another one for that occasion. Now I have both, as well as my baptism and Communion dresses preserved as heirlooms for any future female Casserole offspring. 

It looked similar to the one Kaci has been wearing; definitely not teething jewelry and, at least where I live, baby jewelry isn't a thing outside of religious events and maybe special occasion/birthday photoshoots. She seems to have it on constantly, which is just stupid, but not my kid. Not my problem when she chokes on it, breaks it, or when her saliva tarnishes the metal clasps. Or when Bradley wiggles it off of her and does the same. 

[season of life]

I assumed it was a fashion item or a teething bracelet. Kaci Lynn already has those huge bows, maybe Whitney thought a bracelet would be cute on her? She sure is one cute baby, though.

[faraway]

On 29.9.2016 at 8:01 PM, season of life said:

Fundies don't make sense. They don't want men looking at women, but they have no problem with male doctors and OBGYNs. How the Bateses keep up, I don't know because they dislike so many things yet accept it for the sake of convenience.

Yeah, we try to make sense of them on this forum but they really make no sense at all. They all just need to disappear into the land of insignificance.

[Melissa1977]

I saw the bracelet. It's a dangerous thing in baby's hands. It can break and cause balls to fall down (and  Kaci can eat them). It can hook up with something and hurt Kaci's wrist.

No jewelry in babies please! not even teething necklaces.

She's a baby not a doll.

[princessmahina]

On 9/29/2016 at 6:44 AM, actuallyjessica said:

I have yet to have a male doctor perform any sort of medical procedures or examinations on any part of my body that is kept clothed, and I prefer it that way. Does that make me backwards the way fundies are assumed to be if they were to have female doctors?

Because, if anything, by fundie logic no doctor would be the best fundie doctor seeing as no male other than your marital headship is to see you undressed, and no female is to pursue a career such as a doctor. Probably why most of them go the homebirth route with dodgy midwives. No, not shaming homebirths, just the way these fundies go about it.

I hope not, because I feel the same way. I know it's irrational, but it makes my skin crawl.

[VelociRapture]

50 minutes ago, princessmahina said:

I hope not, because I feel the same way. I know it's irrational, but it makes my skin crawl.

I think there's a difference. I see an all-female group of OBGYNs. Partly because I'm more comfortable and partly because they are phenomenal Doctors. I have a ton of respect for them and the effort they put in to becoming Doctors.

A lot of Fundies don't have that respect for female medical professionals though (or medical professionals in general). And that's where the issue is for me - they're more than happy to utilize services from highly educated individuals, yet they look down on them as lesser than or as sinners because they aren't at home popping out babies constantly. 

(Note, I said some Fundies not all.)

[faraway]

From Dr. Vick's website:

Quote

Nancy Vick had a vision to create a center for women that would not
only offer top-notch medical services, but also minister to them 
spiritually . She dreamed of a place that had an atmosphere
of a warm Christian home instead of a sterile doctor's office; where
Christian music would be heard and saying a prayer with a patient 
would not be considered out of place. 

So they are basically advertising to christian women. If I had christian music playing in a doctor's waiting room, I would be highly disturbed. I do wonder though, how much of this is "the real Dr. Vick" and how much is just advertisement to in an area where people are looking for this kind of thing.

[CharlieInCharge]

I've had male and female doctors/OBGYNs and never thought twice about it. I just figured docs are docs and my personal chemistry and sense of trust is more important. I can maybe see preferring a female OBGYN, but it's a very personal choice.

Fun Charlie Fact: My first OBGYN was actually my mom's doctor and the one who delivered me. He retired a few years later, but I liked joking he'd seen all my bits before I did 

[crazysnark]

When I was fundie light it was encouraged for us to go to women OB/GYN's. The whole women shouldn't be working thing only applied to God's people and not the heathen. Kind of like how the Mormon's own a lot of the Casino's in Vegas, or stocks in casinos. They use the "sinners" to their benefit but will judge you all at the same time. 

 

I am glad that they are comfortable with a male dr. I'm 99% sure the reason Anna had an impromptu homebirth with Mackynzie is because Dr. Sarver was out of town and she would rather risk her life with "Ms Teresa" than let a male dr on call see her exposed. Perfect logic considering she had a male film crew filming everything. 

[nokidsmom]

On 10/3/2016 at 1:06 PM, faraway said:

From Dr. Vick's website:

So they are basically advertising to christian women. If I had christian music playing in a doctor's waiting room, I would be highly disturbed. I do wonder though, how much of this is "the real Dr. Vick" and how much is just advertisement to in an area where people are looking for this kind of thing.

To the bolded: I have wondered the same thing.  Given it's Bible Belt, this "Christian" approach in a practice may resonate with people living there.    Many practices, not just OBGyn's but practices in general try to take a more "caring" approach centering around patient's needs and comfort, it results in greater patient satisfaction (which can result in lower malpractice risk BTW) and a Christian-oriented approach may work in that area.    IDK but perhaps other doctors in that area have done the same thing. 

I agree though, that I went into a practice and they were playing Christian music, that would bother me.  It would give me pause how much of care and treatment would center around their faith versus science. 

[actuallyjessica]

[bal maiden]

More jeans! Hurrah! 

[RosyDaisy]

That means nothing.

[actuallyjessica]

That means nothing.

In the grand scheme of things, maybe not. But we do know that her in laws are vocal about being skirts only. Yes they've said "once married, do as you like" but they have also said their rules are still in place when you visit.... so for someone who seemed to ditch pants when getting to know Zach, and have not been public with her pants wearing until being married for 3 years? I dunno, I think it's something. Even if it is small.

[BoPeep]

I mentioned this before....my early years were in a church that loved Gothard and Bob Jones University.  Dad taught in the church school, and even at home the females in his family weren't supposed to wear pants.  My mom took great pleasure in wearing pants at home, and in letting me wear pants, too.  It was a way to thumb her nose at the "authorities", and was/is considered "rebellious" in those non-pants-wearing church communities. 

They may never turn away from the cult as much as people on here would like, but they are standing up against their parental influences.  It's small, yet it IS a step.  It means they are thinking about what THEY want, vs following the mold they were shoved into.  

[VelociRapture]

The jeans don't mean too much to me. Yeah, it's a step away from his parents' rules - but it's not a step away from the rigid gender roles or rigid worldview the cult preaches. Those things are more important and indicative of their beliefs than fashion choices.

That said, Whit looks lovely as always. I can only hope that  takes pity on this devoted pasta follower and helps me look that good after I give birth too. Knowing my luck, I'll probably look closer to this though:

(Healthy and happy baby is my only priority though. If I look like Jabba the Hut then so be it - I will be the sassiest and most fabulous Jabba the Hut to ever grace the halls of that hospital.)

[bal maiden]

The wearing of jeans in itself does not represent a seismic shift, but I posit that publicly posting a picture of jeans-wearing certainly has some significance. Be it that they are trying to appear more relatable and less fundie, or be it Whitney asserting some independence within the family - who knows? But we can't pretend that it is meaningless, given that they were publicly skirts-only, and now a second of them is publicly not. So it doesn't mean nothing, it's just that we don't know what it does mean... yet. 

[Bazinga]

Here is the way I look at it:

1) Whitney did not grow up fundie. She lived in jeans almost all of her life until she was "convicted" to wear skirts only after she met Zach.  I believe this was truly pressure from the family, because if Whitney was truly "convicted", she wouldn't be wearing pants already. In my experience, newly reformed individuals are the most zealous. Their convictions don't usually change so quickly.

2) Alyssa got married and began wearing jeans. Then we saw photos of Alyssa wearing jeans among her family. Whitney probably saw this and thought if she can do it, then I'm going to do it. I doubt this public display of pants wearing is the first time she began wearing them. Chances are, like Alyssa, she began wearing them without showing the public and now that Ma and Pa Bates has been around it enough, she is going public.

Personally with Whitney I could care less if she wears pants. It doesn't shock me one bit that she went back to them. She grew up with just pants and wasn't a skirt wearer for very long. I'm sure she could still remember fondly what a pair of good fitting jeans felt like (lol).

Now what would change my opinion on the Bates family is if all the other older Bates girls (I'm talking Erin, Micheala, etc.) publicly wore jeans (the little girls wouldn't surprise me, because they are seeing their older sisters set an example). The icing on the cake would be if Kelly herself began wearing jeans again. Then you could convince me that something is actually going on in this family.

[metheglyn]

The really interesting thing is that the pants-clad Whitney pic is no longer publicly available on their instagram. I first saw it on Ellie and Lily's blog, and then found it posted here, but only the pic of Bradley with his pumpkin is now up from their trip. Posters remorse? Terrible comments on the post from people upset about the pants? Who knows, but I don't see it anymore.

[BoPeep]

6 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

The jeans don't mean too much to me. Yeah, it's a step away from his parents' rules - but it's not a step away from the rigid gender roles or rigid worldview the cult preaches. Those things are more important and indicative of their beliefs than fashion choices.

That said, Whit looks lovely as always. I can only hope that  takes pity on this devoted pasta follower and helps me look that good after I give birth too. Knowing my luck, I'll probably look closer to this though:

(Healthy and happy baby is my only priority though. If I look like Jabba the Hut then so be it - I will be the sassiest and most fabulous Jabba the Hut to ever grace the halls of that hospital.)

I had my first baby a month before Christmas.....and I laughed at how my belly wiggled like jelly worse than santa claus' did!  It was so crazy, and took longer than I expected to disappear.  And I didn't even care....I was so enamoured with my little one.  And, there were just so many changes to my body....a jelly belly wasn't that big of a deal.  (The poke-your-eye-out, hard as rock, milk-filled boobs were funny, too, as was sex with leaky boobs.  Good thing we laugh about everything!)