Gator drags child into water at Disney's Grand Floridian resort

[Meridae]

My parents always taught my brother and I that you NEVER set foot in any body of water A: at night, or B: that had signs up. You just never know what could be in the water with you...something that this family tragically learned too late.

I feel badly for the family and I think Disney should have had a more detailed sign up, but common sense from the parents should have kicked in at some point too. With a two year old especially, they can get away from you in the blink of an eye and water is so dangerous for little ones to begin with. Any number of bad things could have happened to the child while he was in a foot of water at night without his parents directly there with him. It's just unfortunate that this bad thing was unforeseen and fatal.

[Shadoewolf]

Lived in FL for many years, each part has its own dangers. Western coast north of Tampa to the curve of the Panhandle is more marsh/brackish. A good 8 miles or so until you reach the Gulf. This area is LOADED with gators and rattlesnakes. But not much signage either. Its thought that if you see swamp, common sense might suggest gators or other hazards. Also, gators have a homing instinct. Once they reach a certain size they can't be relocated because they'll just return, by any means possible, to their home territories. 

On a side note, one Facebook image appears to be an aerial view of the spot with new fencing in place. The water is dark and murky even in daylight, and the drop-offs into significantly deeper water aren't far from shore. That would be my guess for the "no swimming" sign.

[Eternalbluepearl]

If I encountered a "no swimming" sign, it would never occur to me that "wading" is not technically "swimming." I would think no meant no. Keep out. Swim, wade, or dangle your feet in our pools instead. This water isn't for entering. But, I now see that some see "no swimming" and read it as "walking out into the water is still okay." I guess it's like the quotation says "we look up at the same stars, and see such different things." It's fascinating to me. 

All that being said, I'm thinking a night-time movie on  the shore of a dark lake in FL wasn't a good plan by Disney in general. 

[teachergirl]

They have movies all the time though...we stayed at the Wilderness Lodge last year and it is also on the water.  The movie part was up away from the water and was roped off.  We did not watch the films but again, thousands upon thousands of people have enjoyed the resort and all the amenities.  This was an awful, horrific tragic accident and nothing more.  No blame here from me on either side.

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[2manyKidzzz]

If waterways are always infested with gators in FL why build one near a large luxury hotel. That is strange. 

I totally blame Disney but what difference does it make. All the settlement money in the world won't change a thing for that family. Sad. 

[2manyKidzzz]

Just saw that a 5 yr old boy was attacked by a mountain lion in his front yard in CO. Is doing okay. Bad week for wildlife encounters. 

[bashfulpixie]

Disney waters are not infested with gators.  I've been on property more than 100 times and I can count on one hand the number that I've seen. 

And they built the hotel on the water, they didn't dig the lake after building the hotel.  Building a hotel next to water is not Disney exclusive.  In fact, I think you'd be hard pressed to find a nice hotel that didn't have some sort of lake/retention pond nearby.  Florida has an extremely low water table.  That means that ponds are necessary to deal with flooding after storms.  Not just at Disney, but everywhere in the state.  Pull up a map of Orlando and you'll be shocked at the amount of water on the map.  And that's just the larger bodies of water.  I have a pond in my backyard that is a decent size, but you won't see it on Google Maps because it's not big enough.

Again- Disney absolutely deserves the blame for not having signs up.  But to continuously call their massive amounts of water alligator infested is simply not true.  They honestly do a better job than most other places in the state at keeping them out.  It's just a fact of life being in Florida.

[livinginthelight]

I'm late to this thread but adding my voice to those who do not blame the parents. The signs, IMO, were extremely inadequate.

Being not from Florida, I would interpret "No Swimming" as meaning there are rocks or other hidden obstacles in the water. Or rip tides (can you tell I'm from California?) Or that a lifeguard is not on duty so the resort is covering themselves if someone drowns. Wading in a few inches of water would not strike me as dangerous - especially at a Disney resort. Heck, even if I thought about alligators, I'd have some vague idea in the back of my brain that they had a net across the lagoon entrance, keeping all dangerous creatures out. This is Disney. They can do anything, right?

 

 

[Tikobaby]

I was born in Florida and have lived here all my life. There are gators in almost any body of water here, even the Gulf, though that is not common.  I have seen one in the Gulf swimming along the beach with my own eyes. They are in the ponds/lakes on the golf courses. They are in the canals in our neighborhoods. I can walk down one block and stand on the waterway path above the nearest canal and see them.  

The last time Mrs. Baby and I went to Disneyworld/Epcot was in 2002. We stayed at the Polynesian and had a view of the Grand Floridian and its' "beach" directly across what they call the lagoon. People were on jet skis and they rented small boats and paddle boats for guests to go use on the lake. Don't know if they do that now.  We talked about how we would never in a million years go near that water or on the water because we knew there had to be gators in it.  We wouldn't even go on the "beach" at the Poly because we knew gators can explode out of the water with no warning and grab anything nearby. Have seen them do this myself to waterbirds walking along the edge of a lake where we used to live. They move fast, they can jump, and they can run on land. 

I just saw a vid online, (don't know when it was taken), of a Disney employee near Splash Mountain using some kind of pole to try to push a good sized gator back into the water as it tried to climb up a grassy slope right by the ride when the park was open.  Also saw vids of ignorant Disney guests dropping food into the water where gators were. No one should EVER do that as the gators will start to associate people with food and come too close.

I felt sick when I heard about that poor little boy and his family and I am not about to make any judgments from the safety of my home.  Am only writing all of this to let all of you who are not from Florida and may visit here or even those from Florida and not aware that gators can be ANYWHERE there is a lake, pond, retention pond, neighborhood canal, swamp, bayou, etc. here in our state.  They get in peoples' pools, are under cars, and get on lanais depending on how close water is to the home.  Please be aware of this when you visit our beautiful state and use common sense. They are not harmless attractions. 

 

[livinginthelight]

1 hour ago, Tikobaby said:

There are gators in almost any body of water here, even the Gulf, though that is not common.  I have seen one in the Gulf swimming along the beach with my own eyes. They are in the ponds/lakes on the golf courses. They are in the canals in our neighborhoods. I can walk down one block and stand on the waterway path above the nearest canal and see them.  

<snip>  We wouldn't even go on the "beach" at the Poly because we knew gators can explode out of the water with no warning and grab anything nearby. Have seen them do this myself to waterbirds walking along the edge of a lake where we used to live. They move fast, they can jump, and they can run on land. 

<snip>  Am only writing all of this to let all of you who are not from Florida and may visit here or even those from Florida and not aware that gators can be ANYWHERE there is a lake, pond, retention pond, neighborhood canal, swamp, bayou, etc. here in our state.  They get in peoples' pools, are under cars, and get on lanais depending on how close water is to the home.  Please be aware of this when you visit our beautiful state and use common sense. They are not harmless attractions. 

 

Sounds like you need to keep your eyes open every time you are outdoors. Wow. My hat is off to you. Seriously, I'll take earthquakes and fires over alligators and hurricanes.

[SilverBeach]

15 hours ago, Meridae said:

My parents always taught my brother and I that you NEVER set foot in any body of water A: at night, or B: that had signs up. You just never know what could be in the water with you...something that this family tragically learned too late.

I feel badly for the family and I think Disney should have had a more detailed sign up, but common sense from the parents should have kicked in at some point too. With a two year old especially, they can get away from you in the blink of an eye and water is so dangerous for little ones to begin with. Any number of bad things could have happened to the child while he was in a foot of water at night without his parents directly there with him. It's just unfortunate that this bad thing was unforeseen and fatal.

What I have read is that the child was in the water up to his two year old ankles. Plus, there was a zero-depth little sand beach at this body of water. Hardly an univiting scenario.

I absolutely reject even a hint of parent blaming. They did not exhibit a lack of common sense or oversight. I was never warned about water as it was not part of our life when I was a child. Furthermore, that man made body of water could have been just a zero depth pool as far as the parents were concerned. Have there ever been gators in DW pools?

DW is one place where parents are encouraged to be relaxed and not clutch pearls all the time. Of course I'm not advocating letting your children run amok, but ankle wading on a little man made beach while outside at a DW event, dusk or not, should not have been a life-ending matter. 

So tragic, but DW has learned a tough lesson.

[SilverBeach]

10 hours ago, Eternalbluepearl said:

If I encountered a "no swimming" sign, it would never occur to me that "wading" is not technically "swimming." I would think no meant no. Keep out. Swim, wade, or dangle your feet in our pools instead. This water isn't for entering. But, I now see that some see "no swimming" and read it as "walking out into the water is still okay." I guess it's like the quotation says "we look up at the same stars, and see such different things." It's fascinating to me. 

All that being said, I'm thinking a night-time movie on  the shore of a dark lake in FL wasn't a good plan by Disney in general. 

This is why safety signage has to be unequivocally plain. Not subject to interpretation. Remember, this was a zero depth body of water with a little sandy beach surrounding it. 

Ditto about the wisdom of Disney's planning. Imagine the skeeters!

Thanks for the informative post, @Tikobaby

[Tikobaby]

1 hour ago, livinginthelight said:

Sounds like you need to keep your eyes open every time you are outdoors. Wow. My hat is off to you. Seriously, I'll take earthquakes and fires over alligators and hurricanes.

Every state probably has state-specific dangers that visitors may not be aware of, but when I read a lot of comments from folks who really had no idea gators were so prevalent or could possibly be in a Disney lake, I felt I should write from a Floridian's point of view. It's something we wouldn't even question; something we know from being raised here...gators are in the waters so don't swim, walk along, or get too close to lakes or ponds or anywhere else they could be. There are lots of places where they won't be, but be aware near bodies of water of any kind. 

You're welcome, @SilverBeach.

[Meridae]

2 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

What I have read is that the child was in the water up to his two year old ankles. Plus, there was a zero-depth little sand beach at this body of water. Hardly an univiting scenario.

I absolutely reject even a hint of parent blaming. They did not exhibit a lack of common sense or oversight. I was never warned about water as it was not part of our life when I was a child. Furthermore, that man made body of water could have been just a zero depth pool as far as the parents were concerned. Have there ever been gators in DW pools?

DW is one place where parents are encouraged to be relaxed and not clutch pearls all the time. Of course I'm not advocating letting your children run amok, but ankle wading on a little man made beach while outside at a DW event, dusk or not, should not have been a life-ending matter. 

So tragic, but DW has learned a tough lesson.

I've read that he was in a bit deeper than that, but of course it's hard to really ascertain and we'll never know how far in he was.

Regardless, wether or not it's part of your life, water safety is an extremely important topic to go over with your children. Especially at night and when there's a "no swimming" sign up (to me, that means unequivocally to stay out of the water- no wading, no diving, etc., same as what another poster said a bit upthread). Do I blame the parents? Absolutely not. Do I blame Disney? No. But common sense- not letting a small child go into a large body of water at night without a parent directly present- would have helped the family avoid a tragedy that cost them their son's life. 

[SilverBeach]

25 minutes ago, Meridae said:

I've read that he was in a bit deeper than that, but of course it's hard to really ascertain and we'll never know how far in he was.

Regardless, wether or not it's part of your life, water safety is an extremely important topic to go over with your children. Especially at night and when there's a "no swimming" sign up (to me, that means unequivocally to stay out of the water- no wading, no diving, etc., same as what another poster said a bit upthread). Do I blame the parents? Absolutely not. Do I blame Disney? No. But common sense- not letting a small child go into a large body of water at night without a parent directly present- would have helped the family avoid a tragedy that cost them their son's life. 

I don't know that this lagoon or whatever it  was would qualify as a "large body". It's just as easy to write "Stay out of the water-danger" as is it to write "no swimming" on a sign. I explained why I did not read the sign to mean the same way you did, and as a reasonable person, I believe my rationale to be valid. 

Based on the facts and circumstances as presented, I do not think these poor parents displayed a lack of common sense. I think that is a harsh judgement. Their only mistake was believing the Disney hype and maybe having a false sense of security. 

I still place blame squarely on Disney.

BTW, growing up as a city child, water safety included nothing about the risks of crocs, gators, or sharks. Not a problem on the shores of Lake Michigan, or in the pool at the Y.

[Maggie Mae]

20 minutes ago, SilverBeach said:

I don't know that this lagoon or whatever it  was would qualify as a "large body". It's just as easy to write "Stay out of the water-danger" as is it to write "no swimming" on a sign. I explained why I did not read the sign to mean the same way you did, and as a reasonable person, I believe my rationale to be valid. 

It's a large body. You can rent boats and ride around, or take a ferry from the Resorts to the Magic Kingdom. It's smaller than the Great Lakes, obviously, but it's plenty big. IIRC. Everything seems bigger as a kid, of course. 

[Mecca]

I just cannot imagine what the parents are going through. My heart goes out to them. 

For the record: What I am about to say is not parent blaming in the Disney situation. I think detailed signage is always a good thing, but trust me when I say there will always be people that will not heed any type of warnings no matter how detailed those signs may be. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to tell people in Far North Queensland to get out of the water. There are huge detailed signs why one needs to stay out of the water in different languages, and they still take a dip. Some people just think bad things can't happen to them. 

 

[SportsgalAnnie]

2 hours ago, Tikobaby said:

Every state probably has state-specific dangers that visitors may not be aware of, but when I read a lot of comments from folks who really had no idea gators were so prevalent or could possibly be in a Disney lake, I felt I should write from a Floridian's point of view. It's something we wouldn't even question; something we know from being raised here...gators are in the waters so don't swim, walk along, or get too close to lakes or ponds or anywhere else they could be. There are lots of places where they won't be, but be aware near bodies of water of any kind. 

You're welcome, @SilverBeach.

Here in Tennessee: Bears, Mountain Lions, Cotton Mouths, Cougars, Rattlesnakes are the biggest threats in the woods,I've seen Copperheads in my apartment complex.

Up In the Mountains we're taught from a young age, DON'T go off the paths. Don't go In water Alone ect. 

[2manyKidzzz]

It is Disney's responsibility to make it VERY clear that these wild animals that can kill you are present all around. Perhaps on their beautiful 4 color brochures and Internet ads. 

It is their responsibility to their guests. I would need to be medicated for a few years at least, if not forever if I had experienced/witnessed this for one of my children. Everybody in the world doesn't make a complete study of wildlife in Fla. 

[Hera]

I split my time between what are fairly described as two "tourist" destinations. My observation is that people on vacation tend to believe they are invincible. To me, "no swimming" means "don't go in the damned water for any number of reasons because there is a reason that sign is right fucking there." To vacationers, though, it means "eh, I'm on vacation, nothing is going to happen to me! I'm just having fun."  It's just a mindset that people get into. That's why in New Orleans, tourists get robbed buying drugs at 4 a.m. or drown by falling into the river drunk and on the Gulf, people drown in riptides when the red flags are out. They don't properly understand the risks because they're different than what they're used to and so they take ridiculous chances. I don't see this as anyone's "fault." Disney couldn't guarantee it could keep gators out of the water, hence the signs. Folks from Nebraska didn't appreciate the risks associated with FL waters and wanted to have a good time. Tragedy struck. 

[Maggie Mae]

1 hour ago, Mecca said:

I just cannot imagine what the parents are going through. My heart goes out to them. 

For the record: What I am about to say is not parent blaming in the Disney situation. I think detailed signage is always a good thing, but trust me when I say there will always be people that will not heed any type of warnings no matter how detailed those signs may be. I cannot tell you how many times I have had to tell people in Far North Queensland to get out of the water. There are huge detailed signs why one needs to stay out of the water in different languages, and they still take a dip. Some people just think bad things can't happen to them. 

 

So many people don't even notice signage. Or they just don't care. 

[Mecca]

14 minutes ago, Maggie Mae said:

So many people don't even notice signage. Or they just don't care. 

Yep. It is especially frustrating when you know the people in the water and they are local and should know better. Where my in-laws live, there are a lot of crocs in the area. Their neighbor was swimming in the river in an area where I spotted a croc just an hour before. I told him and he told me to fuck off. Not only is he stupid, but he is charming too. 

[Grimalkin]

http://wgntv.com/2016/06/16/mom-shares-photos-taken-right-before-disney-alligator-attack-defends-victims-parents/

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I split my time between what are fairly described as two "tourist" destinations. My observation is that people on vacation tend to believe they are invincible. To me, "no swimming" means "don't go in the damned water for any number of reasons because there is a reason that sign is right fucking there." To vacationers, though, it means "eh, I'm on vacation, nothing is going to happen to me! I'm just having fun."  It's just a mindset that people get into. That's why in New Orleans, tourists get robbed buying drugs at 4 a.m. or drown by falling into the river drunk and on the Gulf, people drown in riptides when the red flags are out. They don't properly understand the risks because they're different than what they're used to and so they take ridiculous chances. I don't see this as anyone's "fault." Disney couldn't guarantee it could keep gators out of the water, hence the signs. Folks from Nebraska didn't appreciate the risks associated with FL waters and wanted to have a good time. Tragedy struck. 

         How can you compare tourists buying drugs and getting robbed, or getting drunk and drowning, to letting your toddler put his feet in the water at a Disney resort? What a ridiculous assumption. Most people don't equate no swimming to potential alligator attacks not to mention tourists traveling from other countries. FYI alligators have been known to thrust out of the water and catch prey that are not even in the water.

 

       I think it was an incredibly kind and brave thing for the woman to post the pictures in the link I posted.

[Meridae]

3 hours ago, SilverBeach said:

I don't know that this lagoon or whatever it  was would qualify as a "large body". It's just as easy to write "Stay out of the water-danger" as is it to write "no swimming" on a sign. I explained why I did not read the sign to mean the same way you did, and as a reasonable person, I believe my rationale to be valid. 

Based on the facts and circumstances as presented, I do not think these poor parents displayed a lack of common sense. I think that is a harsh judgement. Their only mistake was believing the Disney hype and maybe having a false sense of security. 

I still place blame squarely on Disney.

BTW, growing up as a city child, water safety included nothing about the risks of crocs, gators, or sharks. Not a problem on the shores of Lake Michigan, or in the pool at the Y.

I'm simply saying that these parents made a poor decision in allowing their small child to go into the water at night. Alligators or not, signs or not (and we can argue semantics back and forth- to me, "no swimming" means stay out of the water, PERIOD, but others may argue that wading isn't swimming) you cannot see well enough to ascertain what else you're sharing the water with, or the child could have wandered in too far and drowned before anyone noticed. Any number of horrific things could have happened and a two year old simply isn't equipped to take their safety into their own hands.

This is not "don't go into the water because of alligators", this is things everyone should know, namely "don't go into water at night", "don't go into water by yourself", "pay attention to signs and take them to heart", etc.

1 hour ago, Hera said:

I split my time between what are fairly described as two "tourist" destinations. My observation is that people on vacation tend to believe they are invincible. To me, "no swimming" means "don't go in the damned water for any number of reasons because there is a reason that sign is right fucking there." To vacationers, though, it means "eh, I'm on vacation, nothing is going to happen to me! I'm just having fun."  It's just a mindset that people get into. That's why in New Orleans, tourists get robbed buying drugs at 4 a.m. or drown by falling into the river drunk and on the Gulf, people drown in riptides when the red flags are out. They don't properly understand the risks because they're different than what they're used to and so they take ridiculous chances. I don't see this as anyone's "fault." Disney couldn't guarantee it could keep gators out of the water, hence the signs. Folks from Nebraska didn't appreciate the risks associated with FL waters and wanted to have a good time. Tragedy struck. 

Absolutely agree. An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure. This could have been prevented by an adult calling the child away from nighttime waters. (No, I don't think signage could have prevented this. Some people simply wouldn't have cared.)

[Hera]

@Grimalkin, I think it's the same because people assume it won't happen to them. The warnings are "for others." If the "buying drugs" or "being too drunk" analogies are too far, that's why I also included the "riptide drowning/red flag" one. Vacationers see signs (or don't) and disregard them. It really is a vaction state of mind and 90% of the time, it's fine, but the other 10% - accidents/bad things/force majeur happen.  I'm in part a plaintiff's attorney. In some of my cases, finding corporate responsibility is how I get paid.  But here, it's a horrific accident that Disney will no doubt pay for, and has already taken steps to prevent from happening again, but...don't swim means don't wade, either.  There's a reason that sign is there. Sadly enough, it won't be the new signage, but the national news coverage of this tragedy, that will hopefully put it in the collective consciousness that this is something that can happen.