Lina and Love WEDDING WATCH!

[Witsec1]

Just have to chime in-

I have been friends with Lina via facebook for a looooooong time. She is a sweet girl, but I also have been concerned about her need to be so "set apart", so much so that she has practically alienated herself from her family. Things seem a lot better now, but in the past, it has been messy, from the whole blaming her parents for sending her little sis to public school to being mad that her parents "accept" her older sis and were always on her (Lina's) butt about EVERYTHING. Enter TT, who literally came out of nowhere. He is her knight in shining armor, the only one who ~understands her...it is just so strange. I agree with the poster who said she is in the midst of finding herself, and getting married in the middle of that, ESPECIALLY to someone who doesn't seem to be the type to change with her is BAD. I wish them the best, hope things aren't as scary as they seem, and truly hope she reads this board purely to see how other people see this situation.

I agree with this and the other posters who have expressed similar sentiments. I actually admire the headstrong seeker in Lina (from a distance - I wouldn't want to be her parents for anything!) But TT has been part of Messianic Judaism for a while, his family is deep into it, he has worked for FFOZ... plus he knows everything already.

[formerlyfundie]

I agree with this and the other posters who have expressed similar sentiments. I actually admire the headstrong seeker in Lina (from a distance - I wouldn't want to be her parents for anything!) But TT has been part of Messianic Judaism for a while, his family is deep into it, he has worked for FFOZ... plus he knows everything already.

I agree, I mean if she is headstrong and CERTAIN about this lifestyle then she has the best possible person (even if he is a misogynistic jerk) to lead her, BUT she was also certain about being a fundie Christian, a holistic healer, all that jazz. I just hope this sticks and IS her lifestyle of choice, and isn't something she will also grow out of. And if she does, that he will support that...though I do not see that happening.

edited because I am ignorant to technology :|

[Ralar]

If they are so goddamned set-apart, if the whole premise of the relationship is that they are pleasing God by obeying all the rules and not touching and getting married quickly and yadda yadda yadda, how does a quickie CIVIL marriage with no apparent religious component fit in with their mindset?

u

HOW DOES THAT WORK? Seriously! Religion uber alles, unless it's inconvenient and keeps Lina from living with her snugglebunny, I guess. The whole POINT of waiting for a religious marriage to live together as man and wife is to follow the religious rules. The rules of the religion, which say you aren't married unless you're united in a certain religious ceremony. NOT a quickie ring exchange in front of the justice of the peace.

The hypocrisy. It burns. "it's all about God and what God wants, even if it's hard or inconvenient or difficult.....unless we decide that God is okay with a quickie civil ceremony, in which case the rules don't apply to us."

To be fair, a Jewish wedding does not require a rabbi. All that is required is:

1. The katan must give the kallah something of determinable value (generally a ring with no stones);

2. There must be 2 "kosher" witnesses; and

3. The katan must say the magical words.

I'm sure Pauling and TT didn't follow the above formula, and even if they did, it only applies to Jews, and neither of them are Jewish!

[Ralar]

Chabad normally think the Satmars are crazy. Frum Satire is one of my fav blogs and he loves to slam on Kiryas Joel. She has her favorite quote as one of Nachman's but she may just like that particular quote. They definitely want to live Orthodox but if she said anything about conversion all the messianics on her fb page and blog would go nuts.

My cousins owned a glatt kosher market. When they first opened, I was shocked to see 5 or 6 different brands of kosher chickens. Apparently, there are Satmar approved chickens, Chabad approved chickens, Berezlav (sp.) approved chickens, Empire Kosher. The one brand they didn't carry was Hebrew National. Apparently Hebrew National's "higher authority" is not approved of by anyone!

[emmiedahl]

Chabad is Lubavitch, right? I'm getting my Chasidim mixed up.

Uh, Hebrew National is kosher. You have to remember that Hassidic Jews are our version of fundies. Only they are doing it right, so only their rabbis can declare something kosher. Hebrew National is approved by normal Orthodox rabbis, so the Chasidim won't accept it.

Most Jews are a little embarrassed about them, although I just find them amusing.

[longskirts]

Many (if not most) modern Orthodox Jews do not eat Hebrew National either.

[Beeks]

Chabad is Lubavitch, right? I'm getting my Chasidim mixed up.

Uh, Hebrew National is kosher. You have to remember that Hassidic Jews are our version of fundies. Only they are doing it right, so only their rabbis can declare something kosher. Hebrew National is approved by normal Orthodox rabbis, so the Chasidim won't accept it.

Most Jews are a little embarrassed about them, although I just find them amusing.

I thought HN lost their kosher cert even from conservatives.

[emmiedahl]

Did they now? I hadn't heard that. We eat the brand carried at Costco, I think it's Mt. Sinai, but I thought they were still kosher.

[Beeks]

Did they now? I hadn't heard that. We eat the brand carried at Costco, I think it's Mt. Sinai, but I thought they were still kosher.

I just went and googled around a bit and couldn't find anything really definitive, so I guess it's all just personal choice. I know my brother won't eat HN, but he is a weird mix (One of the few Israelis who is neither crazy orthodox nor completely secular). We keep very loosely kosher and I'd eat HN based on what I know.

[emmiedahl]

I'm neither orthodox nor secular either. I try not to eat treif but if it smells good enough...

[Kathryn31]

I can't quite tell how sarcastic you're being here, so I'll just give a straight response. Feel free to respond with "like, duh" anyway. :)

Chabad's much more likely, I think. Lina relies on the Internet for her religious exploration, and Chabad has the strongest presence online by far of any Jewish entity. (Google "Rosh Hashanah" or "Yom Kippur," for example.) Chabad also presents its version of Judaism in a way that even people who know little about Judaism can grasp it.

Yeah, I was being totally sarcastic, because I'm entirely certain that Lina isn't going to give up her belief in Yeshua and Kathryn being all "Aw, I love Lina, she's so cute, and she's gonna convert to Judaism" annoyed me.

The one part I wasn't being sarcastic about was that Lina loves sexism.

[Beeks]

Kathryn, would you agree that Lina comes off completely differently in her emails vs her blog? In my email interaction with her she has been very sweet and pretty reasonable, but her blog is a different story and that's all most people here know of her.

[raineymott]

Does she know you are on here talking about her, Kathryn? I think she found out I came from here when I commented (I probably said "I went and commented blah blah blah", and the comment was under my real name), so any comments or emails to me seem to be predisposed "you don't like me, you don't like what I'm doing, why are you even attempting to talk to me like you like me". lol

[bananacat]

Wait, where did you get that delicious morsel of gossip?

I just meant that with people like Kathryn defending her, others saying that she's actually sweet through e-mail or in person, and to really have any chance of a legit conversion. The evidence seems that she keeps her internet life a secret in real life, or at least doesn't make such a big deal of it..

[bananacat]

Pretty sure that I didn't state that "I love Lina" so not sure what the annoyance is about. Midol much?

Wait, are you actually a man? Because you should realize that most women don't get PMS, and for those that do, it's not during the time they are actually bleeding, which is when most women take Midol. What do you think the P stands for, Genius? I have a hard time believing that a woman would be so dismissive of other women by essentially equating any minor disagreement to those silly laydee hormones. And if you really are a woman and are that sexist, then I am extremely disappointed.

[Witsec1]

Kathryn31, did you actually read TT's long exposition about how lots of Jews think their rabbi is the Messiah, so believing Yeshua was a human sacrifice for sin is totes the same as being a Lubavitcher, and he has a friend who went through Orthodox conversion w/o giving up Yeshua, so there?

[Kathryn31]

Never mind. Not worth the argument.

[Soldevi]

Oooh, I smell martyrism.

[raineymott]

Btw, when I said it feels like she has a predisposition to dislike me, it's not because I've said anything negative about her; only because I'm ON here.

[emmiedahl]

Dissent =/= attack. I have had polite and less polite arguments here. A lot. There was only one time I felt attacked, but that was a very heated argument involving many people. The fact that there was a half and half split on an issue suggests that there are a lot of different backgrounds and ideologies here.

If you say that Lina is on her way to becoming a real Jew, the Jews may have an issue with that. It's like saying you are going to convert to Catholicism but you don't believe in Jesus. Not only that, but you plan to spend your time in church explaining to other people that they also are wrong about Jesus. The only way in is to lie about your intentions, and that is a moral fail. It says a lot about her character and her maturity.

No hive vagina here, not that I can see. ymmv.

[Witsec1]

Kathryn31, why even lurk if you feel that bad about it here?

And thanks for deleting your remarks about the hive vagina hating everyone who doesn't shack up before marriage. Yeah, not judgmental at all.

I'm interested in why you think they are sincere about conversion. 'Cause I ain't seein' it. And yes, I'm sure Lina is naive and sweet as can be. That doesn't mean what she's doing is not dangerous.

[Witsec1]

Dissent =/= attack. I have had polite and less polite arguments here. A lot. There was only one time I felt attacked, but that was a very heated argument involving many people. The fact that there was a half and half split on an issue suggests that there are a lot of different backgrounds and ideologies here.

If you say that Lina is on her way to becoming a real Jew, the Jews may have an issue with that. It's like saying you are going to convert to Catholicism but you don't believe in Jesus. Not only that, but you plan to spend your time in church explaining to other people that they also are wrong about Jesus. The only way in is to lie about your intentions, and that is a moral fail. It says a lot about her character and her maturity.

No hive vagina here, not that I can see. ymmv.

I know, right? I'm sure I came off a little aggressive in the debate about college being review, I was sure you were making shit up to prove your point, but when you explained I totally got it.

[emmiedahl]

FloraPoste, I thought that was a civil enough conversation. If she thinks that is vicious, she has never worked in an office. :)

[defrauding]

I just went and googled around a bit and couldn't find anything really definitive, so I guess it's all just personal choice. I know my brother won't eat HN, but he is a weird mix (One of the few Israelis who is neither crazy orthodox nor completely secular). We keep very loosely kosher and I'd eat HN based on what I know.

Hebrew National products are certified kosher by Triangle K, but they're not glatt kosher (chalak). Glatt kosher has become the standard for meat among Orthodox Jews, so they won't touch Hebrew National products; moreover, some of them don't trust Triangle K certification in general because the agency is willing to certify non-glatt kosher meat.

This article from the Forward gives a good overview of the situation -- and with a minimum of jargon, too!

[oolong]

Btw, when I said it feels like she has a predisposition to dislike me, it's not because I've said anything negative about her; only because I'm ON here.

Well, to be fair, I'm not sure I'd want to talk to anyone on here either if I were her! Because we might come back and talk about it, heh (although I'd hope I'd have the willpower to keep private conversations private). I have always wanted to talk to Lina because I guess I do sort of feel about her the way Kathryn31 does -- except if it's true that TT's family is Messianic and he really did explain why he thinks it's acceptable to be Jewish and believe Jesus is the Messiah, then I think it's somewhat unlikely they are going for a real conversion.

What annoys me most about Lina is not the fake Judaism (tho I respect how that could totally annoy real Jews), it's the damn sexism. I think Lina is just the classic case of a sub who doesn't realize or can't admit that being submissive turns her on and that's why she's so into it. It's not spiritual fulfillment because you've finally found God's perfect role for women. You just get off on being a bottom. It's OK. There are plenty of others like you! ;)

And when I consider that Lina has that Pat Robertson quote up, and Anthony's Taliban thing, I wonder if maybe they are just too immature to realize what they are actually saying and the actual consequences of those theories. I've always kind of thought that TT just heard that somewhere and is spitting it back out without actually understanding what he is saying. He probably doesn't know shit about what has and is actually happening to women in Afghanistan.

But maybe I'm just too nice.