More Joshley: Still hiding - Part 16

[RosyDaisy]

Noooo. My little brother works down there. Leave him in peace. 

Sorry. I wouldn't wish that on your brother.

[Evangeline]

19 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

We always referred to the FL Panhandle as "LA" - Lower Alabama....

We call it the Redneck Riviera.

[socalrules]

I don't think they will ever make Josh leave the family for good. They may be angry about the cheating but they love him and will get over it after awhile. If they had known about the cheating, but the public did not, they would have treated it the same as the molestation. I always thought that the "rehab" was more for show than anything else. I am not sure why anyone thinks the Duggars are just going write him out of their lives. I have always thought the anger was more about threatening the show than its affect on Anna and the kids. Besides, they can't throw him away now because of cheating when they had no consequences for child moleststion. They may realize that the public does not see those two issues as having equal value. 

[Snarkylark]

Maybe he's on the phone with 1-900-SEX-ALOT

[SportsgalAnnie]

On 5/12/2016 at 3:57 PM, RosyDaisy said:

I say ship Josh off to Antarctica. At least he won't be a threat to anyone there.

Penguins ! 

[patsymae]

I wouldn't be surprised if Josh is also getting the cold shoulder from Jessa and Jill. Because now they are parents and may be coming to a different understanding of the nature of their violation.

As much as I despise both of these women, I can't fault them for minimizing their molestation--even outside of fund circles, it's very, very common for those who have been molested to minimize it, to tell yourself it wasn't a big deal--in the absence of a support system (which is most of society), that's how you cope. No biggie. Meant nothing.  Because there is no other way to process the magnitude.

And then you have your own child, and love them so much, and see how innocent and vulnerable they are, and it starts to sink in--how could anyone do that to a child? OMG, that was me!

 

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but I wouldn't at all be surprised if Jessa and Jill are starting to look at Josh--and maybe even the enabling Anna--in a different light now that they are parents themselves

[Ungodly Grandma]

12 hours ago, patsymae said:

I wouldn't be surprised if Josh is also getting the cold shoulder from Jessa and Jill. Because now they are parents and may be coming to a different understanding of the nature of their violation.

As much as I despise both of these women, I can't fault them for minimizing their molestation--even outside of fund circles, it's very, very common for those who have been molested to minimize it, to tell yourself it wasn't a big deal--in the absence of a support system (which is most of society), that's how you cope. No biggie. Meant nothing.  Because there is no other way to process the magnitude.

And then you have your own child, and love them so much, and see how innocent and vulnerable they are, and it starts to sink in--how could anyone do that to a child? OMG, that was me!

 

Maybe I'm giving them too much credit but I wouldn't at all be surprised if Jessa and Jill are starting to look at Josh--and maybe even the enabling Anna--in a different light now that they are parents themselves

I remember Jill saying she would use the same safe guards as her mother to prevent sibling abuse in her home. I would hope that she would revisit that as well. Having her own beautiful boy, surely she can see that there are ways to live that don't include being locked in at night.

[patsymae]

4 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

I remember Jill saying she would use the same safe guards as her mother to prevent sibling abuse in her home. I would hope that she would revisit that as well. Having her own beautiful boy, surely she can see that there are ways to live that don't include being locked in at night.

I didn't see that. Damn.

[Ungodly Grandma]

1 minute ago, patsymae said:

I didn't see that. Damn.

I don't watch the show, but read it in an interview or something. Possibly the Megyn Kelly interview? Someone will remember, it has been discussed! 

[RosyDaisy]

Penguins ! 

NOOOOO!!! I love penguins. So, Antarctica is out of the question.

[SportsgalAnnie]

4 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

NOOOOO!!! I love penguins. So, Antarctica is out of the question.

my point exactly

[FloraKitty35]

7 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

I don't watch the show, but read it in an interview or something. Possibly the Megyn Kelly interview? Someone will remember, it has been discussed! 

It was the Megyn Kelly interview.

[mango_fandango]

The leghumpers are just the worst. I swear to God if a Duggar murdered someone they'd still defend them. What will make them realise that the Duggars are far, far from what people imagine them to be? The fervent admiration of the leghumpers is downright terrifying. 

[lascuba]

13 hours ago, Ungodly Grandma said:

I remember Jill saying she would use the same safe guards as her mother to prevent sibling abuse in her home. I would hope that she would revisit that as well. Having her own beautiful boy, surely she can see that there are ways to live that don't include being locked in at night.

She also looked openly resentful at having to be part of that sex abuse special TLC did for damage control. Even Jessa managed to plaster a smile on her face and talk like she gave a damn, but Jill made it clear she didn't think they needed to be there, and when the speaker asked for feedback, Jill said that she really liked the parts that that sounded similar to Michelle and Jim Bob's safeguards.

I'm not saying anyone is incapable of learning, but if I were, Jill would be on that list. 

[Bad Wolf]

What do they mean by locking the bedroom door? If it's from the outside with a key, then that's stupid and dangerous. If it's like a bathroom door lock, locked from the inside, then I don't have a problem. Everyone needs a little privacy, and the girls would be in control.

 

ETA. Level eleventy. I'm so proud. 

[EmCatlyn]

34 minutes ago, lascuba said:

She also looked openly resentful at having to be part of that sex abuse special TLC did for damage control. Even Jessa managed to plaster a smile on her face and talk like she gave a damn, but Jill made it clear she didn't think they needed to be there, and when the speaker asked for feedback, Jill said that she really liked the parts that that sounded similar to Michelle and Jim Bob's safeguards.

I'm not saying anyone is incapable of learning, but if I were, Jill would be on that list. 

I haven't been watching this family for as long as some of you, but the feeling I got from Jill during the Megan Kelly interview and the sexual abuse special was that she felt her family was being criticized and that she needed to defend the family.   When people are being defensive, they are not willing to listen even to the questions that come from their own hearts.

Jill may not do things the way her parents did, but she is not ready (she may never be ready) to suggest that their way was not perfectly right or the best. Not even when she is doing differently.

I have some cousins who were seriously attached to their mother to the point of idealization.  She was a charming woman (I loved her dearly) but she was also very inflexible, very convinced that there was one way to do things, very insistent about what "should" and "shouldn't" be. She was a devout Catholic with somewhat ante-deluvian notions about social behavior and childhood discipline. She spanked (with the flat of the hand for minor offenses, with a slipper for major ones) and her dsughters were taught to be seen and not heard until they became "civilized" young ladies.  There were several choices my aunt made that led to my cousins being forced to make sacrifices and work in ways they shouldn't have had to.  They never recognized that their mother was to "blame."  Upon her death, both of them described their mother as their "best friend." And they always said that they wanted to be as good at mothering as she had been.

And yet, my cousins didn't live the way they had been raised. They did not use corporal punishment on their children.  They were fairly relaxed in their Catholic observance.  My cousin's daughter was allowed to be a tomboy.  They did not follow their mother's footsteps. But they never articulated any disagreement. It is as if they can't admit it, even to themselves.

I suspect the Duggars may suffer from a particularly intense version of this problem.  (My cousins at least didn't have to compete with 17 other siblings and they both were allowed to go to college, though they had to live at home.)

[MarblesMom]

46 minutes ago, Bad Wolf said:

What do they mean by locking the bedroom door? If it's from the outside with a key, then that's stupid and dangerous

I have a mean fear of people not being able to get out in case of fire, earthquake, tornado, what have you.  If you lock yourself in and can get out in an emergency, ok.

I hate key only dead bolts for that same reason.   Cannot find the key?  House on fire?  Yikes.

[lascuba]

I agree about Jill's need to defend her family. I think they all have the same issue. I've said it before, but I think their celebrity status makes it less likely that they'd leave the fold, not more. Whatever they might actually think or do differently, they know that any public statement of disagreement with their parents would open up even more public criticism than they already get. But Jill's comments about the molestation and "safeguards" go way beyond that and I can't view them in the same light as other issues. 

[EmCatlyn]

3 minutes ago, lascuba said:

I agree about Jill's need to defend her family. I think they all have the same issue. I've said it before, but I think their celebrity status makes it less likely that they'd leave the fold, not more. Whatever they might actually think or do differently, they know that any public statement of disagreement with their parents would open up even more public criticism than they already get. But Jill's comments about the molestation and "safeguards" go way beyond that and I can't view them in the same light as other issues. 

My take on it is that because Jill cannot bear to criticize her parents, she hasn't been able to admit that the molestations were traumatic for her and her sisters and that her parents failed them.  Therefore, when the first scandal hit, she didn't want to think about what she was feeling and she just repeated the family party line.  So I don't take her statements during this period as representative of her true feelings... Assuming she even has access to her true feelings at times, this wasn't one of them.

 

[Bad Wolf]

8 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

NOOOOO!!! I love penguins. So, Antarctica is out of the question.

I see that many FJers really love penguins, so I thought I would give you these little known facts.  Penguins really are amazing.

VERY INTERESTING FACTS ! !
Dead Penguins - I never knew this!

Did you ever wonder why there are no dead penguins on the ice in Antarctica ?
Where do they go?

Wonder no more It is a known fact that the penguin is a very ritualistic bird which lives an extremely ordered and complex life.The penguin is very committed to its family and will mate for life, as well as maintain a form of compassionate contact with its offspring throughout its life.

If a penguin is found dead on the ice surface, other members of the family and social circle have been known to dig holes in the ice, using their vestigial wings and beaks, until the hole is deep enough for the dead bird to be rolled into, and buried.

The male penguins then gather in a circle around the fresh grave and sing,

"Freeze a jolly good fellow."
"Freeze a jolly good fellow."

You really didn't believe that I know anything about penguins, did you?

[MarblesMom]

@Bad Wolf you cracked me up with that ...

What happens to the deceased penguins at the Arndts' house?

[FundieFarmer]

I have a mean fear of people not being able to get out in case of fire, earthquake, tornado, what have you.  If you lock yourself in and can get out in an emergency, ok.

I hate key only dead bolts for that same reason.   Cannot find the key?  House on fire?  Yikes.

In many places those are against the building code for indoor locks to escape routes. Here, it won't get approved if the house is undergoing inspection. We had our locks replaced for that reason...darn roommate kept taking the key out. When she left and I had the locks replaced I had them put a blade in with it- or whatever it's called.

[nastyhobbitses]

3 hours ago, MarblesMom said:

I have a mean fear of people not being able to get out in case of fire, earthquake, tornado, what have you.  If you lock yourself in and can get out in an emergency, ok.

I hate key only dead bolts for that same reason.   Cannot find the key?  House on fire?  Yikes.

If all your kids are burned to death, they can't molest each other.

Though you do lose those little slaves to do chores for you. It's a real trade-off.

[EmCatlyn]

Before we all get carried away into a discussion of the dangers of locking your kids in their rooms so they won't molest/be molested, I located an account of what Jill said.

Quote

Jill shared what exactly these preventative measures included. "Locks on the doors," she said, point-blank. "You know, everybody’s in bed. Girls in the girls' room. Boys in the boys' room — as a mother now I look back, and I think, you know, my parents did such an amazing job for me.  (Esther Lee, reporting on the Megan Kelly interview for Celebrity News --US Magazine, 6/5/15.)  Link

What I understand here is that before the parents found out that Josh was molesting his sleeping sisters, the bedroom doors could not be locked, but that after the first molestations they made the boys and girls sleep in separate rooms and got locks so the girls could lock their door at night. (Remember, this was before the TTH.). 

I think that what Jill is trying to say when she talks about the "amazing job," is that her parents "sprang into action" to prevent a  recurrence  of the molestation. (This is as opposed to wondering--as some of us do--why the boys and girls were apparently sharing rooms before the molestations.)  All that Jill may be planning to emulate is separate rooms for boys and girls and the rule about never leaving opposite-sex siblings alone. 

 

 

 

[imokit]

And yet there have been episodes where very small boys have been seen in the girls beds.  So either they were allowed to go to bed in there or the locks were taken away so they could migrate in.

We've also seen Josie on Josh's lap...