Adoptive "Mothers" part deux

[Lurky]

6 hours ago, Black Aliss said:

I'm glad I read the post. Not for the first time I imagined two of the actors riding bareback, so to speak.

Same - it sounds like a modern re-do of a Shakespeare play.  I'm weirded out how it could be traumatising - or scandalised, too, because a girl dressing up as a guy and him worrying he's gay cos he likes her, but it's all ok!!!!  they're all really straight!!!   () as we've all known all along, cos we've been following the girl - well there are about 10 examples I can think of off the top of my head, from Shakespeare through to modern remake, through to all kinds of films etc etc

[Mirla]

I'm pretty sure it was "All Shook Up," which is a remake of "12th Night." Although perhaps questionable as a church activity, Google only found one school in Utah where someone objected to it, so I doubt it's that bad.  I think it's likely the only one shocked by the content was the Youth Leader.  The kids have either been exposed to stuff like this before, or the hint at a homosexual theme will go over their head.    If they're "scandalized" by anything, it would be the implicit blessing by the church.  Blossom's issue, based on what little we know, seems tied to something unrelated.  I really hope K doesn't overreact as much as her post implies, for her  girls' sake.

I am very glad to hear she's taking worksheets to church for her girls.  

[Black Aliss]

I think it's far more likely that Blossom was confused/overwhelmed/exhausted by an evening out with a group of girls her own age who were allowed to behave in an age-appropriate fashion, unlike what she experiences at home. That could be a challenge even if she is neurotypical and developmentally normal in every way.

[keepercjr]

46 minutes ago, Mirla said:

I'm pretty sure it was "All Shook Up," which is a remake of "12th Night." Although perhaps questionable as a church activity, Google only found one school in Utah where someone objected to it, so I doubt it's that bad.  I think it's likely the only one shocked by the content was the Youth Leader.  The kids have either been exposed to stuff like this before, or the hint at a homosexual theme will go over their head.    If they're "scandalized" by anything, it would be the implicit blessing by the church.  Blossom's issue, based on what little we know, seems tied to something unrelated.  I really hope K doesn't overreact as much as her post implies, for her  girls' sake.

I am very glad to hear she's taking worksheets to church for her girls.  

You are correct, it was "All Shook Up" that she was referring to.  It is currently being performed in one of our local high schools (in the "good" school district).   For those interested, here is the wikipedia page on it: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/All_Shook_Up_(musical)

 

And honestly if she really wanted interaction with other special needs kids/adults it really isn't hard to find here but I doubt she has actually tried other than taking the kids to the "inclusive gym" http://breakthebarriers.org/    That place is amazing, btw.  They perform all over the world to raise awareness of differently abled kids and adults.  I ran into them at the airport once when they were coming back after have spent 3 weeks in the Philippines.  All she would have to do is ask some of the parents or other people there what social activities they do.  She could also call United Cerebral Palsy and ask there http://ccucp.org/

[Inthemadhouse]

Jie Jie was raised with those little daycare children, some of whom were 5+ years younger than her, and Kimmy.   For the first little bit, that would have been an enormous gift to her.  Those childrens activities, cartoons and interaction would have helped give her a jump start in learning English.  Incidentally, that was the time period when Kimmy was convinced she had the second coming of Stephen Hawking on her hands.
But, despite her tiny size Jie Jie  outgrew the daycare kids pretty quickly.   Then her mother, who should have been noticing and helping her bloom, adopted two teenagers in short order.  Now there are three kids learning English in the house, two of whom are having emotional issues on top of the normal learning ones.  (And gee, I can't imagine why the older girls are having problems.  Nothing like being taken away from the country, culture, and language you have known  your entire life and learning how to be part of a family at a time when you are developmentally yearning for freedom and adulthood.   Not to mention Blossom's first 'forever' family dumping her like a puppy that piddled on the rug).    Jie Jie is now lost in the shuffle.  Her development stalled. 
This is not to say that she doesn't have some level of cognitive impairment.  She very well might.    But its nowhere near what Kimmi thinks it is. 
Which is why she can't take the girls to more  inclusive activities.  It won't take long for the other parents to realize that the girls are not as impaired as she wants to believe they are.

[onekidanddone]

I admit I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and I tried to read the blog and just had to stop.  I might not know the entire story. However, as a mom of a kid adopted from China, I am completely disgusted by this woman.  I don't know how she was able to adopt so many girls.  Yes, I know they were on the special needs list (as was mine), but it surprised  me that the CCAA would continue to approve her. And where did she get the money for all those flights  to China let alone the fee to the orphanage, agency, and home studies?

Who watched her other daughters while she was jetting off to bring home another? 

It took me a long time and tons of paper work to get just one kid.  I was single at the time (married now) and I had to pass a rigorous home study, My finances  and health history were closely scrutinized. She is self centered and to me seems like mean spirited child hoarder.

ADMINS:  If this is too much off the deep end I'm sorry.  I know, as stated above, I haven't read enough to know the history.  I just saw a little and felt this rant coming on.

[Stormy]

4 minutes ago, onekidanddone said:

I admit I haven't read all the posts in this thread, and I tried to read the blog and just had to stop.  I might not know the entire story. However, as a mom of a kid adopted from China, I am completely disgusted by this woman.  I don't know how she was able to adopt so many girls.  Yes, I know they were on the special needs list (as was mine), but it surprised  me that the CCAA would continue to approve her. And where did she get the money for all those flights  to China let alone the fee to the orphanage, agency, and home studies?

Who watched her other daughters while she was jetting off to bring home another? 

It took me a long time and tons of paper work to get just one kid.  I was single at the time (married now) and I had to pass a rigorous home study, My finances  and health history were closely scrutinized. She is self centered and to me seems like mean spirited child hoarder.

ADMINS:  If this is too much off the deep end I'm sorry.  I know, as stated above, I haven't read enough to know the history.  I just saw a little and felt this rant coming on.

I think she brought her daughters with her whenever she went to go get another. One of them was adopted directly from another family who'd gone to China to get her who later decided they didn't want her. She has four total adopted in the span of two years, with the shortest gap between children being two months (if you include the aforementioned girl being acquired, though it took several years for an official adoption).

As far as "the story" goes, Kimi claimed God told her that her daughter was in China, and I guess she had envisioned a baby because that's what she had prepared for. It actually took her a few years to get her first child, who was then seven; I think there was some sort of deal with the adoption agency that she'd be bumped up the waiting list for a baby if she adopted older children first, so that's what she did (grudgingly, by the looks of things) and she stopped once she got a young enough child to satisfy her.

What's really creepy about this whole situation is that, before she adopted children, there didn't seem to be anything wrong with Kimi. She passed various home studies, put a lot of thought into her hypothetical daughter's environment and living arrangements. Sure, she was a bit kooky, but, by all appearances, she seemed to be this sweet, normal lady who was aching to be a mother. When she adopted her first daughter and spent a year as a family of two, everything seemed fine -- granted that Jie-Jie was better adjusted. Sissy, however, needed a lot more TLC and time to cope, neither of which Kimi was willing to give. That's when it all started to go south; I made a point earlier in the thread that there are people who can seem nice and normal until something doesn't go their way. (I've heard of cases of parents abusing one child but not the others, so they have conflicting accounts of the parent's character; this is why.) Kimi is incredibly selfish and isn't capable of loving a child who doesn't fit her pre-conceived ideals. (Which is why Jie-Jie's all of a sudden not perfect. She buckled under the stress and started to struggle; now she's as "defective" as the rest.)

I think your rant is justified, and I'm sure we've already scraped the deep end if there is one. With your personal experience as someone who adopted a special-needs child from China, though, I'm sure this resonates on a whole other level for you, and I thank you for your contribution to the thread. I'm confident that you've got the hang of this whole "love" thing moreso than Kimi!

[Granwych]

On ‎3‎/‎13‎/‎2017 at 6:49 PM, Inthemadhouse said:

This is not to say that she doesn't have some level of cognitive impairment.  She very well might.    But its nowhere near what Kimmi thinks it is. 
Which is why she can't take the girls to more  inclusive activities.  It won't take long for the other parents to realize that the girls are not as impaired as she wants to believe they are.

What Madhouse said.  If she takes the girls to activities with lower-functioning participants, the girls will adapt to those behaviors.  Then Kimmie can claim all the cognitive delays she can think of and make herself out to be Mother Superior, the angel who adopts all these special-needs kids and therefore, she herself is special.

[onekidanddone]

1 hour ago, Stormy said:

I think she brought her daughters with her whenever she went to go get another. One of them was adopted directly from another family who'd gone to China to get her who later decided they didn't want her. She has four total adopted in the span of two years, with the shortest gap between children being two months (if you include the aforementioned girl being acquired, though it took several years for an official adoption).

As far as "the story" goes, Kimi claimed God told her that her daughter was in China, and I guess she had envisioned a baby because that's what she had prepared for. It actually took her a few years to get her first child, who was then seven; I think there was some sort of deal with the adoption agency that she'd be bumped up the waiting list for a baby if she adopted older children first, so that's what she did (grudgingly, by the looks of things) and she stopped once she got a young enough child to satisfy her.

What's really creepy about this whole situation is that, before she adopted children, there didn't seem to be anything wrong with Kimi. She passed various home studies, put a lot of thought into her hypothetical daughter's environment and living arrangements. Sure, she was a bit kooky, but, by all appearances, she seemed to be this sweet, normal lady who was aching to be a mother. When she adopted her first daughter and spent a year as a family of two, everything seemed fine -- granted that Jie-Jie was better adjusted. Sissy, however, needed a lot more TLC and time to cope, neither of which Kimi was willing to give. That's when it all started to go south; I made a point earlier in the thread that there are people who can seem nice and normal until something doesn't go their way. (I've heard of cases of parents abusing one child but not the others, so they have conflicting accounts of the parent's character; this is why.) Kimi is incredibly selfish and isn't capable of loving a child who doesn't fit her pre-conceived ideals. (Which is why Jie-Jie's all of a sudden not perfect. She buckled under the stress and started to struggle; now she's as "defective" as the rest.)

I think your rant is justified, and I'm sure we've already scraped the deep end if there is one. With your personal experience as someone who adopted a special-needs child from China, though, I'm sure this resonates on a whole other level for you, and I thank you for your contribution to the thread. I'm confident that you've got the hang of this whole "love" thing moreso than Kimi!

@Stormy Thanks for the info.  It did  resonate with me.  I admit that sometimes I have to remind myself my daughter is not me. What I mean is I'll listen to something she say or does and I'll think "Well hell I never did that when I was her age"...Well Duh.  She is her own person.  Her temperament is so different. I sometimes say she is rebelling because she gets good grades, likes school and has many friends which I sure didn't when I was 13.  

A few months after I came home with her, I had a brief idea it would be nice to get her a sibling.  Then I looked at

• the piles of toys,  loads of laundry and dishes
• my bank account and size of my home
• how exhausted I was all the time  

I  thought I said OH HELL no.  Hence the One Kid and Done.  I am very happy with the kid I have.  It would have been a determent to her for me to adopt another when I was still single.  If I had been married at the time it might have been different.  But  by the time I did marry my husband I were rather long in the tooth to go down that road.

[FloraDoraDolly]

On 3/12/2017 at 1:48 PM, Mercer said:

Kimi's view of her children's abilities seems very inconsistent.

If Blossom truly had the cognitive impairments that Kimi frequently claims the girls have, I doubt she would have been able to follow a plotline like that musical. While Kimi does briefly consider the possibility that it might have gone over Blossom's head, the post as a whole suggested that Blossom was seriously traumatized by seeing "gay" (but not really) content briefly in a play. For Kimi to assume that, Blossom would have to have actually understood what was happening on stage.

The level of cognitive ability the girls have seems to vary wildly depending on what point Kimi wants to make and how she wants the story to go.

I've read bits and pieces of Kimi's blog, but I don't follow it closely. However, she reminds me of certain parents I've known who will say or do anything to make sure the kids get disability payments from the government and that it continues after the kid turns 18.

[BabyBottlePop]

16 hours ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

I've read bits and pieces of Kimi's blog, but I don't follow it closely. However, she reminds me of certain parents I've known who will say or do anything to make sure the kids get disability payments from the government and that it continues after the kid turns 18.

 This just makes me sad. Is there any oversight in how disability payments are spent? I just wonder about the kids who need it and their parents spend it on what they want. 

[FloraDoraDolly]

8 hours ago, BabyBottlePop said:

 This just makes me sad. Is there any oversight in how disability payments are spent? I just wonder about the kids who need it and their parents spend it on what they want. 

As far as I know, the parents can spend it however they want. If they are caring for a disabled adult child, there is almost no oversight.

[Stormy]

54 minutes ago, FloraDoraDolly said:

As far as I know, the parents can spend it however they want. If they are caring for a disabled adult child, there is almost no oversight.

There's plenty of reasons why Sissy won't leave Kimi (the emotional abuse, legit disability, no outside support, and/or genuine love for her mother, etc.), but do you think it's possible that she can't leave?

I know that's a stretch, but Kimi's been so candid about keeping her on a tight leash (perhaps literally since she's already done so with Blossom) that it wouldn't surprise me if she's denying Sissy the option. There's already a surveillance and alarm system in the house, and Sissy's been left with a "babysitter" on multiple occasions. Kimi might be intent to keep Sissy under her roof for as long as possible in order to collect the benefits, and can only accomplish that if everyone's convinced that Sissy's truly disabled. Disturbingly, this also means that Sissy's not going to get taken seriously if she tries to fight it -- physically or verbally -- since people will assume that she can't be rational as a result of her "handicap". She could probably get overpowered anyway since she's smaller than Kimi, who seems pretty spry for her age as it is.

Picture it: Sissy makes a break for it while in public with Kimi and co. and security gets summoned. They'll return her to her "family" because it'll seem like she's a bratty kid giving her mom a hard time (since she passes for much younger). Even if it's confirmed that she's indeed eighteen, she's also "disabled", and therefore can't possibly know what's good for her.

I really hope I'm wrong...

On 3/14/2017 at 7:40 PM, onekidanddone said:

@Stormy Thanks for the info.  It did  resonate with me.  I admit that sometimes I have to remind myself my daughter is not me. What I mean is I'll listen to something she say or does and I'll think "Well hell I never did that when I was her age"...Well Duh.  She is her own person.  Her temperament is so different. I sometimes say she is rebelling because she gets good grades, likes school and has many friends which I sure didn't when I was 13.  

A few months after I came home with her, I had a brief idea it would be nice to get her a sibling.  Then I looked at

• the piles of toys,  loads of laundry and dishes
• my bank account and size of my home
• how exhausted I was all the time  

I  thought I said OH HELL no.  Hence the One Kid and Done.  I am very happy with the kid I have.  It would have been a determent to her for me to adopt another when I was still single.  If I had been married at the time it might have been different.  But  by the time I did marry my husband I were rather long in the tooth to go down that road.

On a refreshing note, I'm really happy to hear that your daughter is doing so well! You sound like an awesome mom. Did you adopt her as an infant or was she an older child?

[Cheetah]

I fell down the two rabbit holes of Kimi and Vicky this week.  I skipped the first couple of years of Kimi up to a couple of months before getting Jie Jie but otherwise am caught up.  Kimi baffles me.  I can't figure out how someone who lives in CA, isn't married, and provides daycare for a living can afford her lifestyle.  Not that she's lavish, but still.  Taking off a couple of months to catch up on paperwork isn't something that a lot of daycare providers can afford to do.  

Anyway.  What I'm curious about is whether there have been any long-term studies done of older international adoptees.  These women have an attitude that they are saving these girls from a horrible fate (factory work or prostitution, I guess).  I'd be curious to know how children who grew up to adulthood in Chinese orphanages fare as far as life satisfaction, happiness, etc, vs those who were adopted at age 12 or 13 and brought to the US or other country.  Is it really better to get them out of the orphanage regardless of how bad the few years of adjustment issues are?  

[eightykatie]

I've got to think she's now getting some SSI payments for the girls.

[apandaaries]

11 hours ago, Cheetah said:

 

Anyway.  What I'm curious about is whether there have been any long-term studies done of older international adoptees.  These women have an attitude that they are saving these girls from a horrible fate (factory work or prostitution, I guess).  I'd be curious to know how children who grew up to adulthood in Chinese orphanages fare as far as life satisfaction, happiness, etc, vs those who were adopted at age 12 or 13 and brought to the US or other country.  Is it really better to get them out of the orphanage regardless of how bad the few years of adjustment issues are?  

I don't know about long-term studies, but there is a wealth of information in various places about international adoptions gone wrong.  There's a book called The Child Catchers, by Kathryn Joyce.  It's about evangelicals going abroad and adopting as many as possible, to expose them to Jesus and potentially save their souls. 

Mother Jones has an excerpt from her book. It focuses on several people who've strongly influenced a lot of our fundies: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia

This is a very lengthy read, but well worth it: http://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1

An update on the above: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-kidnapping-adoption-idUSKBN0NT2GK20150508

You know about Hana Williams, right?  RIP, sweet girl. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html

But there are also asshole politicians who adopt domestically and then fuck things up almost beyond repair.  Here's one of many articles on Justin Harris, a former Representative from Arkansas.  I hope this man lies awake every night thinking of the damage he did to those girls, but I suspect he lacks the conscience and intelligence to feel remorse.  He is the kind of person who will make one long for a vengeful deity: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/13/the-story-of-an-arkansas-politician-who-gave-away-his-adopted-child-and-the-tragedy-that-followed/

As terrible as this all is, it's just the tip of a very large iceberg. You might want to bring some ferrets on this rabbit hole exploration.  And some tissues for the tears. 

ETA: I was googling around, trying to find updates on Nancy Campbell's adopted kids and found this series: http://www.thelostdaughters.com/2013/05/the-lost-daughters-discuss-child.html  Haven't read it, can't vouch for it (yet, I hope), but it seems to have a number of people who've experienced and/or studied international adoptions.  Looks interesting.

Also, Patheos covers a number of interesting aspects about international adoption: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/saving-children-from-africa-a-quiverfull-adoption-fad.html

Damnit, though.  I know I found info on Nancy and Serene's adopted children (now grown) somewhere out there before.  There were some truly disturbing allegations out there, as is true with this whole topic.  We need so much more oversight for these children, but I highly doubt anything positive will change for them with Agent Orange in office.  

 

[Cheetah]

3 hours ago, amandaaries said:

I don't know about long-term studies, but there is a wealth of information in various places about international adoptions gone wrong.  There's a book called The Child Catchers, by Kathryn Joyce.  It's about evangelicals going abroad and adopting as many as possible, to expose them to Jesus and potentially save their souls. 

Mother Jones has an excerpt from her book. It focuses on several people who've strongly influenced a lot of our fundies: http://www.motherjones.com/politics/2013/04/christian-evangelical-adoption-liberia

This is a very lengthy read, but well worth it: http://www.reuters.com/investigates/adoption/#article/part1

An update on the above: http://www.reuters.com/article/us-usa-kidnapping-adoption-idUSKBN0NT2GK20150508

You know about Hana Williams, right?  RIP, sweet girl. http://www.slate.com/articles/double_x/doublex/2013/11/hana_williams_the_tragic_death_of_an_ethiopian_adoptee_and_how_it_could.html

But there are also asshole politicians who adopt domestically and then fuck things up almost beyond repair.  Here's one of many articles on Justin Harris, a former Representative from Arkansas.  I hope this man lies awake every night thinking of the damage he did to those girls, but I suspect he lacks the conscience and intelligence to feel remorse.  He is the kind of person who will make one long for a vengeful deity: https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/morning-mix/wp/2015/03/13/the-story-of-an-arkansas-politician-who-gave-away-his-adopted-child-and-the-tragedy-that-followed/

As terrible as this all is, it's just the tip of a very large iceberg. You might want to bring some ferrets on this rabbit hole exploration.  And some tissues for the tears. 

ETA: I was googling around, trying to find updates on Nancy Campbell's adopted kids and found this series: http://www.thelostdaughters.com/2013/05/the-lost-daughters-discuss-child.html  Haven't read it, can't vouch for it (yet, I hope), but it seems to have a number of people who've experienced and/or studied international adoptions.  Looks interesting.

Also, Patheos covers a number of interesting aspects about international adoption: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2013/04/saving-children-from-africa-a-quiverfull-adoption-fad.html

Damnit, though.  I know I found info on Nancy and Serene's adopted children (now grown) somewhere out there before.  There were some truly disturbing allegations out there, as is true with this whole topic.  We need so much more oversight for these children, but I highly doubt anything positive will change for them with Agent Orange in office.  

 

Thanks... this will keep me busy for a bit :-).  I did follow the Hana Williams story when it went down a few years ago.  I'll look at some of these others.

[apandaaries]

55 minutes ago, Cheetah said:

Thanks... this will keep me busy for a bit :-).  I did follow the Hana Williams story when it went down a few years ago.  I'll look at some of these others.

Sadly, there seems to be no end to these stories.  Here's another good spot for info, including how Serene Allison, Nancy Campbell's daughter, sent one of their adoptees back: http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/57242

The whole site is worthwhile, too: http://poundpuplegacy.org/

Still searching for some old blogs that used to be informative, but running into some issues there.  However, I did locate a book which is about one of the Allison's disrupted adoptions, the one who was sent back to Liberia. This writer used to have a blog where she was detailed some aspects of the lives of the "African kids" (as the children called themselves) adopted by the Campbells and Allisons.  It was pretty horrifying.  Here's a link to that book: https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Friday-Kate-Thompson/dp/1937565599

ETA: I'm rereading the Mother Jones article again, and had forgotten that Kate Thompson had been mentioned in there.  Thompson did try to stand up for the children as best possible, even calling Children's Services.  When the Allisons sent Isaiah back to Liberia, it was the Thompsons who went to retrieve him.

There's also this awful story about a man adopted from Korea at age 3.  In his first adoption, he and his sister came to the US and were physically abused.  They were given up for adoption here and split up.  Adam landed in a family so abusive that the second set of adopted parents wound up in prison for their actions.  Amidst all this chaos, no one ever formalized his citizenship.  He had a few brushes with the law in his youth, then settled down.  He apparently didn't realize his citizenship issues until he was reunited with his biological sister.  He applied for citizenship, but his legal problems from his youth returned to haunt him.  Though he had a wife and two kids, he was deported. Now he's living in South Korea again. International adoption certainly wasn't his ticket to education and success in the USA: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/us/adam-crapser-deportation-south-korea.html 

[Lurky]

The thing about international adoption giving children better lives in the USA, is it relies on giving them the opportunities other Americans have. 

So while I know there are issues with a lot of TransNational adoption, especially when kids are adopted by white families and given no links to their home countries/cultures (see, eg, the google page for Transnational adoption, which is full of scholarly research), in the Quiverfull cases, where the kids aren't educated, AND are living in massive families, AND are often older children, whose adoptive parents don't even learn their language, etc etc, even before we get to the physical punishment/abuse aspects, they're not getting the "benefits" adoption is supposed to offer.

Even Jean (?) the non-Fundy, who essentially running a group home with a very small staff, can't be giving the kids many of the same opportunities to develop, as the kids can't form a parent-child relationship.  And then there are things like re-homing children, which would fuck anyone up. 

TL;DR: There's a case to be made for "anything better than an orphanage because USA" in an "ordinary" TransNational adoption scenario, but not in the child collectors.  If they really wanted to help, they'd raise funds to make sure the orphanages in the home countries were better - and that's what churches would support.  But no, it's "give us more cash so we can get our 7th kid"

ETA that google link takes you to a ton of academic stuff, eg this:

https://www.dukeupress.edu/transnational-adoption - because there's been a lot of research on the topic of TransNational adoption in general, so I imagine over the next 10-5 years, the impact on the people adopted through this wave of evangelical adoptions will be also studied in-depth too.

[Toothfairy]

20 hours ago, Cheetah said:

I fell down the two rabbit holes of Kimi and Vicky this week.  I skipped the first couple of years of Kimi up to a couple of months before getting Jie Jie but otherwise am caught up.  Kimi baffles me.  I can't figure out how someone who lives in CA, isn't married, and provides daycare for a living can afford her lifestyle.  Not that she's lavish, but still.  Taking off a couple of months to catch up on paperwork isn't something that a lot of daycare providers can afford to do.  

Anyway.  What I'm curious about is whether there have been any long-term studies done of older international adoptees.  These women have an attitude that they are saving these girls from a horrible fate (factory work or prostitution, I guess).  I'd be curious to know how children who grew up to adulthood in Chinese orphanages fare as far as life satisfaction, happiness, etc, vs those who were adopted at age 12 or 13 and brought to the US or other country.  Is it really better to get them out of the orphanage regardless of how bad the few years of adjustment issues are?  

Often it's a lie. These kids gave families but their families are too poor to care for them. 

[Toothfairy]

8 hours ago, amandaaries said:

Sadly, there seems to be no end to these stories.  Here's another good spot for info, including how Serene Allison, Nancy Campbell's daughter, sent one of their adoptees back: http://poundpuplegacy.org/node/57242

The whole site is worthwhile, too: http://poundpuplegacy.org/

Still searching for some old blogs that used to be informative, but running into some issues there.  However, I did locate a book which is about one of the Allison's disrupted adoptions, the one who was sent back to Liberia. This writer used to have a blog where she was detailed some aspects of the lives of the "African kids" (as the children called themselves) adopted by the Campbells and Allisons.  It was pretty horrifying.  Here's a link to that book: https://www.amazon.com/Finding-Friday-Kate-Thompson/dp/1937565599

ETA: I'm rereading the Mother Jones article again, and had forgotten that Kate Thompson had been mentioned in there.  Thompson did try to stand up for the children as best possible, even calling Children's Services.  When the Allisons sent Isaiah back to Liberia, it was the Thompsons who went to retrieve him.

There's also this awful story about a man adopted from Korea at age 3.  In his first adoption, he and his sister came to the US and were physically abused.  They were given up for adoption here and split up.  Adam landed in a family so abusive that the second set of adopted parents wound up in prison for their actions.  Amidst all this chaos, no one ever formalized his citizenship.  He had a few brushes with the law in his youth, then settled down.  He apparently didn't realize his citizenship issues until he was reunited with his biological sister.  He applied for citizenship, but his legal problems from his youth returned to haunt him.  Though he had a wife and two kids, he was deported. Now he's living in South Korea again. International adoption certainly wasn't his ticket to education and success in the USA: https://www.nytimes.com/2016/11/02/us/adam-crapser-deportation-south-korea.html 

Sadly this is common. Go look up second chance adoptions. 

[itsme]

 Kimi and Vicky seemed about equally terrible to me when the whole Avery-situation occurred. Incredibly self-focused, narcissistic and wallowing in self-pity. I think Vicky handled adopting/rehoming Avery terribly and her blogging about it only made it worse. But now that Avery has left her posts have taken a more positive tone, in my opinion. I feel like she actually loves the girls she has at home and hopes for them to do great in the future. She believes in their capabilities (from her last post:  "I have no doubt about their abilities and know they will do a wonderful job." ... can you imagine kimi saying something like that about any of her daughters?) and enjoys making them happy. Im not trying to be overly positive, since what she did to Avery was traumatizing and plainly stupid (adopting a fifth child while you are a single parent, a senior, have limited resources and work full time? Please!), but im cautiously optimistic regarding her daughters self-esteem and futures. 

 

Kimi on the other hand? the differences between those two becomes more and more apparent, now that avery is no longer in the picture. I don't think she ever loved any of her daughters. (i know this is very harsh but to me it seems her daughters are only playing a role,  are actors in the great kimi-show and have to revolve around her in order to have a purpose)  She probably believed she loved jiejie when she first got her, but as soon as she didn't fit her perfect doll-picture of a daughter anymore she didn't even try anymore.  Her blatant favoritism of apple and her blatant disdain for her older daughters are so obvious to anybody who spends ten minutes reading her blog, i am seriously baffled as to why she can't see it herself. 

 

I mean I could be wrong, and kimi is just portraying herself as this terrible person online but is actually a loving caring mother to all her four daughters. I hope I am for her daughters sake.

[alexandracabot]

7 hours ago, itsme said:

 Kimi and Vicky seemed about equally terrible to me when the whole Avery-situation occurred. Incredibly self-focused, narcissistic and wallowing in self-pity. I think Vicky handled adopting/rehoming Avery terribly and her blogging about it only made it worse. But now that Avery has left her posts have taken a more positive tone, in my opinion. I feel like she actually loves the girls she has at home and hopes for them to do great in the future. She believes in their capabilities (from her last post:  "I have no doubt about their abilities and know they will do a wonderful job." ... can you imagine kimi saying something like that about any of her daughters?) and enjoys making them happy. Im not trying to be overly positive, since what she did to Avery was traumatizing and plainly stupid (adopting a fifth child while you are a single parent, a senior, have limited resources and work full time? Please!), but im cautiously optimistic regarding her daughters self-esteem and futures. 

 

Kimi on the other hand? the differences between those two becomes more and more apparent, now that avery is no longer in the picture. I don't think she ever loved any of her daughters. (i know this is very harsh but to me it seems her daughters are only playing a role,  are actors in the great kimi-show and have to revolve around her in order to have a purpose)  She probably believed she loved jiejie when she first got her, but as soon as she didn't fit her perfect doll-picture of a daughter anymore she didn't even try anymore.  Her blatant favoritism of apple and her blatant disdain for her older daughters are so obvious to anybody who spends ten minutes reading her blog, i am seriously baffled as to why she can't see it herself. 

 

I mean I could be wrong, and kimi is just portraying herself as this terrible person online but is actually a loving caring mother to all her four daughters. I hope I am for her daughters sake.

I was just thinking this. Vicky's posts made me feel really hopeful for her other daughters, even if I feel horribly for Avery and think she should get no free passes for what she did to her. I like the effort Vicky makes to help her daughters remain connected to China, and the positivity she uses when she talks about them. Kimmy has never, that I know of, said something kind about Sissy, and she hasn't said anything nice about Blossom in years either.

[LilMissMetaphor]

Quote

So, when you have an adult or teen with the cognitive level of a 6 year-old, you don't let them watch R movies either. Even physically, if you have a 16 year-old with the fine motor skills of a 4-6 year-old, would you let them stir a boiling pot of food on the stove? No. Would you let them pour dry ingredients into a bowl and crack eggs to bake cookies? Yes, with appropriate supervision.

 

...but it's totally fine to let them watch YOUR DAYCARE CHILDREN while you catch up on paperwork or whatever it was that you did when you were supposed to be looking after other people's kids.   

[smittykins]

I get the heebie-jeebies reading Little House in the Big Woods when 5-year-old Laura stands on a chair at the stove and stirs boiling pumpkin.