Bates Family Part 13: Like Lipstick on a Pig

[HerNameIsBuffy]

24 minutes ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I think it's pretty easy to be friends/in a relationship with people who have opposing political views from yourself when you don't have a lot of (or any) skin in the game and the issues are more of a theoretical or philosophical discussion than the life that you wake up to every day. Like, if I were straight, I could be friends with homophobic people and "agree to disagree" because, at the end of the day, it's not my rights they're trying to take away, nor is it likely that they'll be inclined to commit some sort of hate crime against me. Since I'm not straight, all of the bullshit about LGBT people being promiscuous sexual predators who are out to ruin society and should therefore be relegated to second-class citizenship, if not locked up and/or killed starts to get very personal very quickly. 

And that applies to any issue, when you think about it.  

For me this depends on the issue.

I can (and do) have a lot of friends who have political views on stuff like taxes, health care reform, etc...because reasonable people can disagree about how to solve complex problems.  

But as a straight white woman I may wouldn't be personally attacked by homophobes or racists...but I sure as shit don't want to befriend them.  

I can agree to disagree on economic stuff because I think people can be wrong and still well intentioned.  Heck - I'm not Adam Smith and there is a reason no one is paying me to write fiscal policy.  So I could totally be very wrong on some things that make sense to me from my perspective with the knowledge I currently have.

But if someone thinks gay people are sexual predators, or that black people are < insert your hateful stereotype of choice > there is no agree to disagree on that because there's no way to hold those views and not be a hate filled bigot or beyond ignorant.  Those beliefs absolutely change how I see someone as a person and I want no part of that.  Because those views are dangerous, even if they aren't dangerous directly to me.  

I think you raise an important aspect to this, and I have a splitting headache so I hope I don't come off bitchy as it's not my intent.  I just wanted to throw out there that I think it's insane in this day and age that that type of prejudice is still with us and it's never going to go away completely until everyone who is completely unaffected by it personally shuts it down just as hard as the people to whom the hate is directed.

I would be more afraid of someone who harbored hate toward a group of which I was apart - but none of us should allow the stormfronters of the world to operate under the delusion that their views have any place in society at large.  

 

 

 

[DaisyD]

Mr. D and I avoid talking about politics as much as possible. I think we want similar things for this country, we just vastly disagree on how to get it done, and who's capable of doing it with the least amount of drift. Since neither one of us is writing policy, we just talk about other things. It's worked for 15 years. Neither one of us is overly political though, so that may be why.

[VelociRapture]

1 hour ago, JesusCampSongs said:

I think it's pretty easy to be friends/in a relationship with people who have opposing political views from yourself when you don't have a lot of (or any) skin in the game and the issues are more of a theoretical or philosophical discussion than the life that you wake up to every day. Like, if I were straight, I could be friends with homophobic people and "agree to disagree" because, at the end of the day, it's not my rights they're trying to take away, nor is it likely that they'll be inclined to commit some sort of hate crime against me. Since I'm not straight, all of the bullshit about LGBT people being promiscuous sexual predators who are out to ruin society and should therefore be relegated to second-class citizenship, if not locked up and/or killed starts to get very personal very quickly. 

And that applies to any issue, when you think about it.  

I'm a straight Cis white female. While denying the LGBTQ community rights doesn't impact me directly, I am impacted personally nonetheless because my brother is Bi and Transgender. I have no tolerance for that bullshit. If someone starts bad mouthing like that in front of me I either shut it down or I remove myself from their presence - immediately and (hopefully) permanently.

But you do have a point. People tend to be much more passionate when a topic impacts them directly. 

[19 cats and counting]

There are some people in this world who don't give a shit about politics, or only think about them around election time.   Then there are people like me who live and breathe politics.  On a 10 point scale, politics is a 10 in my life.  Maybe it is a 2 in my neighbor's life.  Most people don't know who represents them in their state house (state senator and assembly/representative/delegate) and only a handful more know who their congressman/woman is.  On the other hand, I can name everyone who represents me from school board to POTUS.

I will be civil with those who disagree with me (I'm fascinated by fundies because they're opposition research in my book and I want to better understand where they're coming from) unless you do something directly (voting is indirect) to harm me.  But if you use hate speech (I LOVED it when a former friend drunk posted the n word all over my FB) then I WILL call you out on it.  I will have a civil debate with anyone who wants to, but it will end if I hear the slightest sign of homophobia, transaphobia, misogyny, racism, etc.  

[VelociRapture]

Doubt this has anything to do with the Bates family - but saw this article and immediately thought of them because it happened in Pigeon Forge (and I think that's their town.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/5-killed-when-tour-helicopter-crashes-tennessee-woods-n550566?cid=sm_tw

Tour helicopter crashed and five people died.

[blessalessi]

8 hours ago, Palimpsest said:

I spent too much energy yesterday calling out Batesesses lovers.  I enjoyed one status update after my little rampage though.  Something about FJ being all about ass pats and hand slaps.  Glad she noticed.  

On a lighter note: I was curious so I decided to do the spiritualgiftstest.com test mentioned above.  I tried to be honest - but it took far too long for me to be completely accurate.  There are 105 different questions!  Once I started I had to slog through it all - because I'm persistent like that.  There are 15 gifts on this test.

My results - Top 3:  

Discernment 31:  Apparently I have the gift to recognize and distinguish between the influence of God, Satan, the world, and the flesh.  Very odd.  I answered the questions as honestly as I could given the fact that I don't believe in God.  Or Satan.  I do believe in living an ethical life and think I know right from wrong.  

Administration 29:  Apparently having a tidy desk is very important when you are organizing, directing and implementing plans to lead others in the various ministries of the Church  my professional field.

Mercy 28: So I have the gift to love and assist those who are suffering and walk with them until The Lord allows their burden to be lifted they feel better.  Or not.

I only scored 24 for Wisdom and that pissed me off.

The bottom three were:

Evangelism 0

Faith 0

Prophesy 0

Well they got those right!

My top three were Mercy, Wisdom and Discernment. My score for Administration was predictably but disappointingly low.

My favourite questions were the very obvious ones around Prophecy, which reminded me why my career as a Pentecostal was so short-lived. God, I hated hearing from the sorts of people who had a WORD FROM GOD that they needed to share IMMEDIATELY.

My Evangelism score was quite decent. I love sharing God's word with people who think it says something it doesn't. 

[HerNameIsBuffy]

7 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Doubt this has anything to do with the Bates family - but saw this article and immediately thought of them because it happened in Pigeon Forge (and I think that's their town.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/5-killed-when-tour-helicopter-crashes-tennessee-woods-n550566?cid=sm_tw

Tour helicopter crashed and five people died.

That's a shame - such a horrific accident.

I have distant relatives in Sevierville.  Land deeded to our great whatever grandfather for revolutionary war service still in the family there so we have some history there...is that near the Bates?

Just looked it up, less than an hour away.  How long have they been there?  Im a little scared of my gedcom file now.  

[trisprefect]

5 hours ago, Honeysuckle said:

It seems like everyone keeps moving the goalposts. At first, it was "Leave the minor children alone. They don't choose this." Fine, we can all agree on that. I think we also agree that adult children still living in their parents' home should be given some consideration. But back then it was "Wait and see what happens when they get married." Well, they got married, and then it was "We won't really judge unless they bring children into these beliefs." And then they had babies, and suddenly it was "Well, I can totally tell that they're probably going to only have a couple. A lot of young married people have babies." And now we're supposed to wait another ten years while these people are bringing innocent children into the world and subjecting them to these cults? Ten years to instill in their kids the belief that they are right and the world is wrong, that girls are only good for laundry and babies, that they are sinners and their parents are doing them a favor by beating the sin out of them?

I'm done. I was done the second they started having babies to be steeped in these dangerous, harmful views. Ten years is a lifetime of pain, confusion, and sorrow for the kids that these adults are choosing to have, whether the adults are taking baby steps away from the cult or not.

I definitely agree that once they've brought kids into an abusive lifestyle, it's a lot harder to be sympathetic to their unfortunate situation. It's fine to say that it will likely take people who were emotionally and intellectually stunted by their parents several years away from the homestead to develop their own identity, but it's also important to acknowledge the harm this will do to their children.

For me, the biggest things I'm waiting to see are how many kids each of the married couples have, and whether or not they send them to actual school. If a few years down the line, Alyssa or Zach (not so much Erin, because she has the clotting issues) still only have 2-3 kids and aren't showing signs of pursuing a full quiver, that will be a good sign. Better yet, if Allie Jane or Bradley or Carson end up in a public or even private Christian school, I would be impressed. Until then, it's impossible to know which way they're going to go unless one of them comes out and says "Gothard/Satan I rebuke thee!"

[Mecca]

16 minutes ago, VelociRapture said:

Doubt this has anything to do with the Bates family - but saw this article and immediately thought of them because it happened in Pigeon Forge (and I think that's their town.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/5-killed-when-tour-helicopter-crashes-tennessee-woods-n550566?cid=sm_tw

Tour helicopter crashed and five people died.

Pigeon Forge is in a different area from Rocky Top. PF is a touristy area that is just outside the Smokey Mountains and Dollywood is located there. The Bates live about an hour and a bit from there. 

I have been on one of those helicopter tours several times. Though they are amazing, they can actually be scary. 

[FLgirl]

Hi guys, I've been lurking here for a while on the Bates forums.  I've posted in the Real Life Fundie Encounters thread though. 

Long story short, have this neighbor, think she's fundie/fundie-lite. I've spent a few weeks talking to other neighbors and asking about her, and am trying to get the nerve to start up a conversation with her. Looks like I'll get to soon, just found out she's moving onto the same street I'm about to move onto, on base. (our husbands are both military)

Anyway, I've been undercover creeping for her social media accounts and I think there is a connection to the Bates there, if I've found the right Instagram. And if it is, wow, I sure called the fundie thing! Haha 

[choralcrusader8613]

1 hour ago, FLgirl said:

Hi guys, I've been lurking here for a while on the Bates forums.  I've posted in the Real Life Fundie Encounters thread though. 

Long story short, have this neighbor, think she's fundie/fundie-lite. I've spent a few weeks talking to other neighbors and asking about her, and am trying to get the nerve to start up a conversation with her. Looks like I'll get to soon, just found out she's moving onto the same street I'm about to move onto, on base. (our husbands are both military)

Anyway, I've been undercover creeping for her social media accounts and I think there is a connection to the Bates there, if I've found the right Instagram. And if it is, wow, I sure called the fundie thing! Haha 

FLgirl, what you do on your time is your business, but please do not post about "creeping" on fundies/people who may be fundie here. FJ discusses people who have publically made themselves examples of fundamentalism (through blogs and the like), not average people going about their day, fundie or not.

[FLgirl]

I agree with you, to the viewer post before me. At first it was just neighbor/people watching but after talking to people and figuring things out, it is public, online, in blog form. If this is her, she has a public blog which I found through her Instagram and I've found a connection between her and fundies discussed here. 

Im not planning on divulging her site, or social media, I wouldn't do that, was just trying to start a friendly chat. 

I'll go back to lurking. Have a good night everyone! 

[PennySycamore]

2 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's a shame - such a horrific accident.

I have distant relatives in Sevierville.  Land deeded to our great whatever grandfather for revolutionary war service still in the family there so we have some history there...is that near the Bates?

Just looked it up, less than an hour away.  How long have they been there?  Im a little scared of my gedcom file now.  

Neither Gil nor Kelly are from Tennessee originally.  Gil is from a little town called Pelzer, SC and I think Kelly may also be from SC or maybe Georgia.  They met at Anderson Junior College and transferred to Carson-Newman College in Tennessee.  Both are Baptist schools.  

If you have distant relatives in Sevierville, then you and I just might possibly have some family in common.  Sevierville was named after my 6th great-grandfather, General John Sevier, who led the Overthemountain Men at the Battle of King's Mountain.  John Sevier was also the first governor of Tennessee and the only governor of the State of Franklin.  The Sevier family reunion is held every few years in Pigeon Forge

[RosyDaisy]

Small world. I'm a descendant of the Atchley family from Sevier Co. TN

[infooverload]

I have to wonder what Zach ' s thoughts are regarding his parents posting the public invite. As a law enforcement officer he has to have concerns about his family's safety.

[DaisyD]

5 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

That's a shame - such a horrific accident.

I have distant relatives in Sevierville.  Land deeded to our great whatever grandfather for revolutionary war service still in the family there so we have some history there...is that near the Bates?

Just looked it up, less than an hour away.  How long have they been there?  Im a little scared of my gedcom file now.  

I wish my family still owned the land grant for service in the revolution. I visited the town he founded and resisted the urge to be all "This is mine". Lol

[16strong]

I wonder if Kelly and Gil actually do know what they're doing by inviting the general public to this graduation party. Are they planning on mass proselytizing and converting the gullible heathen masses to the fundie lifestyle? Hell, we know Jim Bob used to make TTH visitors watch that awful Jim Sammons video. Kind of like a price to kiss their feet.

[LawsonBatesEgo]

11 hours ago, HerNameIsBuffy said:

For me this depends on the issue.

I can (and do) have a lot of friends who have political views on stuff like taxes, health care reform, etc...because reasonable people can disagree about how to solve complex problems.  

But as a straight white woman I may wouldn't be personally attacked by homophobes or racists...but I sure as shit don't want to befriend them.  

This is how I feel about having friends with differing political beliefs. I have friends who vote for our equivalent of the republican party because they identify as economic conservatives and feel they have better economic politics. 

I can easily be friends with someone who has a different opinion on how we should structure the taxation/education/healthcare system. It's simply a difference of opinion on a complex issue. 

I struggle to be friends with someone who is just pain old homophobic/racist/sexist. I can deal with different opinions, i can't deal with bigots. 

There is a difference between having a different opinion and being a straight up asshole. 

[twinmama]

14 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

I'm a straight Cis white female. While denying the LGBTQ community rights doesn't impact me directly, I am impacted personally nonetheless because my brother is Bi and Transgender. I have no tolerance for that bullshit. If someone starts bad mouthing like that in front of me I either shut it down or I remove myself from their presence - immediately and (hopefully) permanently.

But you do have a point. People tend to be much more passionate when a topic impacts them directly. 

Also straight white lady and as a mom of young kids, I can't deal with the homophobia and all that because I have no idea who my little guys are going to be. They could be gay or trans or any other thing that 4 year olds haven't gotten to yet. If I accepted a homophobe into my life and let my child grow to love them, then my child realized he was gay, I'd be so sad I brought that negativity into their life. I know you can't protect them forever and I know that they will encounter crap in the world regardless of what I do, but it won't be because I accepted something unacceptable. 

[what the heck]

13 hours ago, VelociRapture said:

Doubt this has anything to do with the Bates family - but saw this article and immediately thought of them because it happened in Pigeon Forge (and I think that's their town.)

http://www.nbcnews.com/news/us-news/5-killed-when-tour-helicopter-crashes-tennessee-woods-n550566?cid=sm_tw

Tour helicopter crashed and five people died.

That's so sad!

[blessalessi]

7 hours ago, 16strong said:

I wonder if Kelly and Gil actually do know what they're doing by inviting the general public to this graduation party. Are they planning on mass proselytizing and converting the gullible heathen masses to the fundie lifestyle? Hell, we know Jim Bob used to make TTH visitors watch that awful Jim Sammons video. Kind of like a price to kiss their feet.

I suspect that they are doing more-or-less what FJers do when we post stuff from our personal lives on the forum.  It is easy to get a false sense of security on the internet, because our need for connection with the circle of people we care about sometimes overrides our inbuilt safety sensor. We forget our wider audience in the same way reality tv stars sometimes forget about the cameras and let their guards drop.

I am sure they will have plenty of security people there though. I would not gate-crash that sort of event for fear of reprisal, besides the fact that I would find it a creepy thing to do anyway.

 

[Kelsey]

22 hours ago, GreenTea said:

So a Bates Blog accounted that Trace Bates (19 years old) and Carlin Bates (17 years old) are graduating from high school this year (2016) and the Bates family is hosting a graduation party on Saturday, April 30th. Gil and Kelly Bates will announce the details of the party in the coming weeks. http://www.batesfamilyblog.com/2016/04/youre-invited.html#comment-form

Are they really inviting the public to the kid's high school graduation party? That could turn out to be a big mess. Why did Trace graduate two years after Carlin? If she completed her studies at 17 and him at 19. Was he just a slacker? I wonder if they are going to go to college. Or be allowed to go somewhere other then Clown College. 

They are 14 months apart. I think this is a case of delay Trace a little, fast-track Carlin a little to meet in the middle and be able to teach both kids the same thing at once. 

Carlin is a very late 17 (birthday later this month) and Trace a very early 19 (birthday was in Feb) so it makes the age difference seem bigger than it really is. 

[Casserole]

9 minutes ago, Kelsey said:

They are 14 months apart. I think this is a case of delay Trace a little, fast-track Carlin a little to meet in the middle and be able to teach both kids the same thing at once. 

Carlin is a very late 17 (birthday later this month) and Trace a very early 19 (birthday was in Feb) so it makes the age difference seem bigger than it really is. 

 

Agreed. Not standing up for them and I'm sure their education is stunted either way, but I was 17 when I graduated high school and there were plenty of 19 year olds in our class due to the September cut off for birthdays. One of my friends was even 20 because they made her repeat 1st or 2nd grade. 

It seems a little odd since this is customized homeschool and not ebil public school, but for simplicity's sake when you have 19 kids, I understand condensing kids into little groups to teach the same thing rather than 19 different lessons

[justmy2cents]

Didn't Trace actually finish school last year? They may have just wanted to do only one party for both of them.  Didn't the Duggars also do this, maybe with Joe and Jinger? I remember an episode which I think was last season but could have been the beginning of this season where Kelly was asking Trace what his plans are now that he's done with school.  He wanted to put his resume together and start applying for jobs and she was encouraging him to do a semester at Crown on her and Gil's dime to at least try college.  Then she told him it's always better to be your own boss and not to work for someone else.

http://www.duggarfamilyblog.com/2012/07/duggar-graduation.html

[Dandruff]

2 hours ago, blessalessi said:

I am sure they will have plenty of security people there though. I would not gate-crash that sort of event for fear of reprisal, besides the fact that I would find it a creepy thing to do anyway.

Zach probably knows every police officer in his county, and quite a few others nearby.  Why not invite some to the party?