Counting On (everyone being civil in...) - part 2

[bertnee]

3 hours ago, OyToTheVey said:

Also, TLC has gotten so gross. What was that new show they're advertising for? And I watch 600 lb people and hoarders. My mind is boggled.

 

What was their new show? I also watch 600 lb Life and I used to watch Hoarders so I'm curious what new show they've come up with.

[OyToTheVey]

2 hours ago, missegeno said:

You are me. I thought i was the only one. I love boring TV, and I loved the boring episodes (except the dentist visits because I hate dentist visits). And you are right. This new season is boring even for me.

Nope def not the only one. I live for boring TV. A documentary on some river in Oklahoma? I'd probably watch it lol

[anotherone]

4 minutes ago, OyToTheVey said:

Nope def not the only one. I live for boring TV. A documentary on some river in Oklahoma? I'd probably watch it lol

A nature documentary on aquatic life in the Midwest would be tons more interesting than watching a teenager go to the eye doctor.  You got to try harder 

[Kelsey]

I have been watching it for three hours. I can't believe how not-interesting this show is. 

[OyToTheVey]

4 minutes ago, anotherone said:

A nature documentary on aquatic life in the Midwest would be tons more interesting than watching a teenager go to the eye doctor.  You got to try harder 

 hehehehehe It's so true tho.

[ClaraOswin]

1 hour ago, bertnee said:

What was their new show? I also watch 600 lb Life and I used to watch Hoarders so I'm curious what new show they've come up with.

Hoarders is on A&E.

[Jana814]

I love Boring TV also. Glad I'm not the only. 

[nst]

The whole scene with Sierra really made no sense on so many levels. We all know Sierra is the pretend friend to jessa strictly for the show. They could have acted like they had something more interesting to say to each other. Not only that jessa's silences speak more volumes than when actually talking.

it was just so scripted but at the same time it wasn't.

[anotherone]

I actually sometimes like that 600 lb show.  I like when they have a happy ending and they are so pleased with their changes.  I know it's an absolute feel-good kind of show (the TLC version, which means it also has the freak show aspect), and I am well aware that TLC markets exactly those kinds of shows.  That and hoarders are the same thing.  I guess they look at the Duggars and think the same thing, freak show with a feel-good aspect, if only the molestation didn't get in the way.

[OperaRocks]

On 3/15/2016 at 6:59 PM, OperaRocks said:

Correct. 

Hello All. I apologise for the upset. I suppose I ought to explain my response. I am a CLC (certified lactation consultant) from UCLA, as well as a childbirth educator via International Childbirth Educator's Association, and sat on a committee via the American Academy of Pediatrics-American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists. We reviewed, via the Cochran data base, meta analyses regarding the benefits and risks of both breastfeeding, and artificial feeding on American babies, but focused primarily on these issues in developing countries. Now, some of you will be pissed over the term "artificial feeding," but that is what academics agreed to call formula. Yes, I am biased. I respect your right to disagree, but please respect my same right.

We've found empirical evidence that thousands of infants and babies in developing countries die annually. Back when formula was handed out for free (wiki Nestle Formula), the mothers over-diluted the concentrate, or powder, and did so with contaminated water, because clean water is dear. Babies died of malnutrition, chronic diarrhea leading to dehydration, and failure to thrive. Because they were told formula was superior and more reliable than breast milk, women did not develop a good milk supply. It was and continues to be  a humanitarian disaster in some regions.

And although Nestle,responding to legal actions stopped overt distribution, the practice continues in new iterations, and is still killing babies.

I would direct you to a book,

Milk, Money, and Madness: The Culture and Politics of Breastfeeding by Naomi Baumslag M.D. M.P.H. (Author), Dia L. Michels 

For these women, discussion of car seats is moot, as they do not have cars. Western women struggle with this issue. It's unfortunately a political issue, and is complicated by variables which result in women becoming adversarial. That is unfortunate, as I believe we are meant to help and support each other, and the choices we make. None of us ought to feel the need to defend their choices.

 Therefore, I own my comment. I wish you all well. I wish you all peace

[Casserole]

1 hour ago, OperaRocks said:

Hello All. I apologise for the upset. I suppose I ought to explain my response. I am a CLC (certified lactation consultant) from UCLA, as well as a childbirth educator via International Childbirth Educator's Association, and sat on a committee via the American Academy of Pediatrics-American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists. We reviewed, via the Cochran data base, meta analyses regarding the benefits and risks of both breastfeeding, and artificial feeding on American babies, but focused primarily on these issues in developing countries. Now, some of you will be pissed over the term "artificial feeding," but that is what academics agreed to call formula. Yes, I am biased. I respect your right to disagree, but please respect my same right.

We've found empirical evidence that thousands of infants and babies in developing countries die annually. Back when formula was handed out for free (wiki Nestle Formula), the mothers over-diluted the concentrate, or powder, and did so with contaminated water, because clean water is dear. Babies died of malnutrition, chronic diarrhea leading to dehydration, and failure to thrive. Because they were told formula was superior and more reliable than breast milk, women did not develop a good milk supply. It was and continues to be  a humanitarian disaster in some regions.

And although Nestle,responding to legal actions stopped overt distribution, the practice continues in new iterations, and is still killing babies.

I would direct you to a book,

Milk, Money, and Madness: The Culture and Politics of Breastfeeding by Naomi Baumslag M.D. M.P.H. (Author), Dia L. Michels 

For these women, discussion of car seats is moot, as they do not have cars. Western women struggle with this issue. It's unfortunately a political issue, and is complicated by variables which result in women becoming adversarial. That is unfortunate, as I believe we are meant to help and support each other, and the choices we make. None of us ought to feel the need to defend their choices.

 Therefore, I own my comment. I wish you all well. I wish you all peace

 

sounds like the contaminated water was killing the babies and not the formula... but alright. 

[Bad Wolf]

Quote

Just finished watching it. Why did Jenni go with Joy for glasses? She wasn't getting any. Was she her accountability buddy? Also, that child never smiled once when she was on camera.

JD said that it was dangerous in CA, but they were doing good work. I didn't see any actual work, just handing out empty backpacks.

But oh, how incredibly boring it was. The only good point was Bin talking about the gaping hole if they did it wrong. So nice to see my view of his IQ confirmed.

 

[FundieFarmer]

Looks like we can add breastfeeding to the list, along with peanut butter and vaccinations. Let's move on from this. Plenty of children have survived and thrived from both options, which are employed for a myriad of individual and highly personal reasons, so let's save the aggression and in-fighting for the mommy forums.

[OperaRocks]

3 hours ago, Casserole said:

 

sounds like the contaminated water was killing the babies and not the formula... but alright. 

Yes. Bad water, and lack of convenient clean water is a contributory factor. However, did I mentioned dilution? In order to "stretch" the stuff, they cut the powder, and if the liquid, same thing. It is not unusual, either, for plain goat or cows milk to be used in addition to or in conjunction with the artificial milk.This creates another complication. For more information, consult WHO for evidence-based recommendations.

But, alright.

[season of life]

Do you guys think Sierra is really a friend to Jessa or nah? I know TLC does scripted stuff all the time, but considering that Jessa didn't have a lot of opportunities to make friends when she was younger, who's to say Sierra isn't? At least they see each other once in a while, as opposed to Jessa and her "friend" Jennifer Hartono.

I just feel bad, it's like she doesn't have a close group of pals besides her sisters.

[choralcrusader8613]

27 minutes ago, OperaRocks said:

Yes. Bad water, and lack of convenient clean water is a contributory factor. However, did I mentioned dilution? In order to "stretch" the stuff, they cut the powder, and if the liquid, same thing. It is not unusual, either, for plain goat or cows milk to be used in addition to or in conjunction with the artificial milk.This creates another complication. For more information, consult WHO for evidence-based recommendations.

But, alright.

OperaRocks, if you want to discuss this further with Casserole, please take it to PM. I respect your passion for this field, but FundieFarmer's already asked for the discussion here about breastfeeding to stop.

[OperaRocks]

Why, certainly. I felt a follow-up to a follow-up was good manners. IS that how things roll here? Someone is offended, or otherwise disagreeable, so the drift must end?  I don't usually feel a need to defend myself, but I did because of the shitstorm of downvotes. My primary discussion was factual, restrained, and lacked much if any emotional force. I underestimated how fucking touchy some of the inmates are here.

Love from California.

[quiverofdoubt]

8 hours ago, season of life said:

Do you guys think Sierra is really a friend to Jessa or nah? I know TLC does scripted stuff all the time, but considering that Jessa didn't have a lot of opportunities to make friends when she was younger, who's to say Sierra isn't? At least they see each other once in a while, as opposed to Jessa and her "friend" Jennifer Hartono.

I just feel bad, it's like she doesn't have a close group of pals besides her sisters.

Maybe. But if they are then it's a sad kind of relationship, and jessa's sheltered upbringing is showing for sure. They seem so awkward together, stilted.  When other mom friends and i visit we talk freely, laugh, vent, help each other out with household stuff or chase the kids around together.  Their visit felt like the first time you to to someone's house and you're super unsure of yourself and sit quietly on the couch observing. Not like close friends at all.  But since jessa was never allowed to make friends with anyone outside of family she is probably really unpracticed at it.  Sierra really looked like she would appreciate some help, and not a guest with camera crew sitting on the couch.

[Petrel]

14 hours ago, OperaRocks said:

Hello All. I apologise for the upset. I suppose I ought to explain my response. I am a CLC (certified lactation consultant) from UCLA, as well as a childbirth educator via International Childbirth Educator's Association, and sat on a committee via the American Academy of Pediatrics-American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists. We reviewed, via the Cochran data base, meta analyses regarding the benefits and risks of both breastfeeding, and artificial feeding on American babies, but focused primarily on these issues in developing countries. 

For women without access to clean drinking water, breastfeeding is superior.

For women in the US, there is negligible health benefit to breastfeeding.  

(I just weaned my 23 month old daughter, FYI.)

[choralcrusader8613]

15 hours ago, OperaRocks said:

Hello All. I apologise for the upset. I suppose I ought to explain my response. I am a CLC (certified lactation consultant) from UCLA, as well as a childbirth educator via International Childbirth Educator's Association, and sat on a committee via the American Academy of Pediatrics-American College of Obstetricians & Gynecologists. We reviewed, via the Cochran data base, meta analyses regarding the benefits and risks of both breastfeeding, and artificial feeding on American babies, but focused primarily on these issues in developing countries. Now, some of you will be pissed over the term "artificial feeding," but that is what academics agreed to call formula. Yes, I am biased. I respect your right to disagree, but please respect my same right.

We've found empirical evidence that thousands of infants and babies in developing countries die annually. Back when formula was handed out for free (wiki Nestle Formula), the mothers over-diluted the concentrate, or powder, and did so with contaminated water, because clean water is dear. Babies died of malnutrition, chronic diarrhea leading to dehydration, and failure to thrive. Because they were told formula was superior and more reliable than breast milk, women did not develop a good milk supply. It was and continues to be  a humanitarian disaster in some regions.

And although Nestle,responding to legal actions stopped overt distribution, the practice continues in new iterations, and is still killing babies.

I would direct you to a book,

Milk, Money, and Madness: The Culture and Politics of Breastfeeding by Naomi Baumslag M.D. M.P.H. (Author), Dia L. Michels 

For these women, discussion of car seats is moot, as they do not have cars. Western women struggle with this issue. It's unfortunately a political issue, and is complicated by variables which result in women becoming adversarial. That is unfortunate, as I believe we are meant to help and support each other, and the choices we make. None of us ought to feel the need to defend their choices.

 Therefore, I own my comment. I wish you all well. I wish you all peace

If anyone is still interested in talking about breastfeeding vs. formula feeding, I've opened up a thread for people to do that.

[Dandruff]

11 hours ago, season of life said:

Do you guys think Sierra is really a friend to Jessa or nah? I know TLC does scripted stuff all the time, but considering that Jessa didn't have a lot of opportunities to make friends when she was younger, who's to say Sierra isn't? At least they see each other once in a while, as opposed to Jessa and her "friend" Jennifer Hartono.

I just feel bad, it's like she doesn't have a close group of pals besides her sisters.

I'd say that Sierra must be close with some Duggar(s) or she wouldn't repeatedly be on the show (and I wish she wasn't).  I suspect that Sierra and Jessa are just playing good buddies because they have babies though.  Their personalities don't seem compatible to me, at all.

[nst]

14 hours ago, season of life said:

Do you guys think Sierra is really a friend to Jessa or nah? I know TLC does scripted stuff all the time, but considering that Jessa didn't have a lot of opportunities to make friends when she was younger, who's to say Sierra isn't? At least they see each other once in a while, as opposed to Jessa and her "friend" Jennifer Hartono.

I just feel bad, it's like she doesn't have a close group of pals besides her sisters.

I personally think Sierra is a plot point and a leg humper. What's alarming is that obviously jessa can't interact with non siblings even at her age. She might have amazing conversations with people who are not her relatives, but it was painfully obvious she can't on screen. Even when the opportunity arises.  Why couldn't a script supervisor or something give them talking points.a

Dont feel bad - she is not a person to feel bad about

2 hours ago, Dandruff said:

I'd say that Sierra must be close with some Duggar(s) or she wouldn't repeatedly be on the show (and I wish she wasn't).  I suspect that Sierra and Jessa are just playing good buddies because they have babies though.  Their personalities don't seem compatible to me, at all.

And it's become glaring obvious jessa doesn't get along with even some of her sisters naturally.

maybe the reason Ben looks so sad and dejected is because she chips at him....

5 hours ago, quiverofdoubt said:

Maybe. But if they are then it's a sad kind of relationship, and jessa's sheltered upbringing is showing for sure. They seem so awkward together, stilted.  When other mom friends and i visit we talk freely, laugh, vent, help each other out with household stuff or chase the kids around together.  Their visit felt like the first time you to to someone's house and you're super unsure of yourself and sit quietly on the couch observing. Not like close friends at all.  But since jessa was never allowed to make friends with anyone outside of family she is probably really unpracticed at it.  Sierra really looked like she would appreciate some help, and not a guest with camera crew sitting on the couch.

I hate sad relationships like that. They are not helpful.

i am sure  if the older kids from JD down to Joy feel like like that in terms that they can't be natural in front of others who are not leg jumpers or lot her Christians. I can't stand Michelle and Jb even more.

[FundieFarmer]

4 minutes ago, nst said:

I personally think Sierra is a plot point and a leg humper. What's alarming is that obviously jessa can't interact with non siblings even at her age. She might have amazing conversations with people who are not her relatives, but it was painfully obvious she can't on screen. Even when the opportunity arises.  Why couldn't a script supervisor or something give them talking points

I'm not sure that's fair...she may not like Sierra on a good day so when she was forced to talk to her for the show, she couldn't even fake it. Honestly, there are plenty of people that if you stuck me in a room with them, I probably would do a terrible job acting like I was interested in them. Couple of reasons are because I don't like them, and because I'm not an actress, and because I'm introverted, so that would be my own personal hell. I definitely think she's a plot point, and it seems like she's a plot point that does not work at all for Jessa. Just my $0.02. 

[nst]

1 minute ago, FundieFarmer said:

I'm not sure that's fair...she may not like Sierra on a good day so when she was forced to talk to her for the show, she couldn't even fake it. Honestly, there are plenty of people that if you stuck me in a room with them, I probably would do a terrible job acting like I was interested in them. Couple of reasons are because I don't like them, and because I'm not an actress, and because I'm introverted, so that would be my own personal hell. I definitely think she's a plot point, and it seems like she's a plot point that does not work at all for Jessa. Just my $0.02. 

Well then they should have brought someone in jessa was comfortable with

[FundieFarmer]

21 minutes ago, nst said:

Well then they should have brought someone in jessa was comfortable with

Totally agree. If what I suggested is the case, then bad casting idea on the side of the writers. If yours, then eesh on Jessa. Either way, sounds like a flop for the show. Glad I saved my eyeballs the watch