Jill, Derick and Israel part 14

[Fundie Bunny]

1 hour ago, choralcrusader8613 said:

From very personal experience, children with metal scissors tend to have a fascination with electrical outlets.

 

2 minutes ago, Ali said:

In the United States, they look like a face and are at the perfect height for toddlers.

Ups, forgot about the shape. Those things really look dangerous 

[EmmieJ]

1 hour ago, Fundie Bunny said:

But, what's with the outlet covers anyway? I just can't understand why a kid would decide to stick something on it. I barely even noticed plugs until i was like 4. Does anyone have a child that had a fixation with it?

I was once such a child.  We had a cool nightlight that glowed.  I remember plugging and unplugging it one day in my bedroom.  Then I got the bright idea of wrapping a little chain around the plugs and then pushing it into the outlet.    I got a jolt!  Fortunately for me, no harm done and I learned the hard way not to play with outlets and try to poke things in there that don't belong.  Like others have said, some kids won't be curious about outlets and other things, while some kids will blithely head straight into trouble.

[Wenny]

27 minutes ago, CreationMuseumSeasonPass said:

When I was a toddler, I managed to pull up a chair, break into the medicine cabinet and almost "OD" on grape-flavored children's Tylenol. I still remember my mom freaking out and forcing me to throw up in the bathtub. I remember that I didn't even like the grape flavor of the Tylenol. I was eating them because I could. Kids always find a way lol.

I have poison control in my phone on speed dial.  Lets see: Daughter has tried to eat all the children's gummies, Tried to drink dirty mop water and tried to eat cat litter. Yet the kid refuses to eat her food. 

[ClaraOswin]

4 hours ago, Four is Enough said:

I remember finding these GREAT outlet covers. Basically, in order to plug something in, you had to partially insert the plug, then turn it a bit, then continue to push the plug completely into the outlet. We were installing them when Two became mobile. TWo had them figured out before we completed one room, basically. We knew then that the force was strong with that one... who is also the one who (daily) loosened the screws of a park bench in his room... what happened while Two was supposed to be napping.. Daily, I tightened those nuts with tools, and daily, they got loosened. Sometimes, the baby is stronger than the proofing... 

However, I agree Izzy should not be gumming an electric appliance, nor should he be standing and rocking on it..

We have a few different covers. I feel some are too easy to get out. So we found new ones that are basically impossible for even me to get out. So I use those in his bedroom and areas he plays in most.

4 hours ago, nausicaa said:

My curiosity is trumping my fear of another mommy war: what are the reasons people have for being anti-baby proofing? I mean, is this like an organized ideology? 

Others explained it in previous posts. But I, unfortunately, have known people who don't even do the safety things - outlets, cleaners, anchoring furniture, etc. It's scary. For them, it's not an ideology. It's just stupidity and thinking nothing bad could ever happen to them.

All kids are different. Some don't get into stuff. Others get into everything. Some quickly understand the concept of "no." and "Don't touch" or whatever. Others, continuously test boundaries. So I find for things that could involve injury (or death), it's best to play it safe. So we have outlet covers, locks on cabinets, some anchored furniture, soft edges on some tables (saved us from stitches a few times), baby gates at the stairs, light switch lock on the switch that turns on the gas fireplace. 

We don't really have much in the way of breakables anyway so most things have been kept out even though there are many things we still have to tell him not to mess with. We've left them out because they can't really hurt him. If we had glass items, those would be put up though. I know someone whose toddler has permanent nerve damage from broken glass.

Some toddler proofing was just for convenience. Because I would rather he didn't clean out every...single...cabinet multiple times a day. So we put  safety things on some of them. And left a few cabinets for him to get into.

1 hour ago, Fundie Bunny said:

But, what's with the outlet covers anyway? I just can't understand why a kid would decide to stick something on it. I barely even noticed plugs until i was like 4. Does anyone have a child that had a fixation with it?

My son has always loved sticking his finger in things. (Almost gotten it stuck in a few toys before.) Now, I'm sure his finger is probably too big for the opening but to be on the safe side, all outlets are covered. I am hoping some day he'll learn to talk and we'll be able to figure how what he understands and doesn't understand. Because it makes it tricky when trying to teach him things.

[laPapessaGiovanna]

52 minutes ago, Ali said:

In the United States, they look like a face and are at the perfect height for toddlers.

Maybe that's the reason. Maybe babies don't find the shape we use here very appealing. None of the mothers I know babyproofed outlets, and my mothers group was full of 35 to 44 yo (yes I was the youngest by far) highly educated high income first time moms that would freak out at the shadow of a possible danger.

[Four is Enough]

Two was definitely my most active toddler. The outlet covers were because he stuck anything into where there was an opening... remember the advertisements where the kid stuck the sandwich into the VCR? My Two. So the outlet covers were a must. We STILL have prongs from the clear plastic things you stick into the outlets themselves, inside a couple outlets. Two took outlet covers as a personal challenge, and yes, learned very early that a knife makes a good lever. Riding herd on that kid was worth your life and took all your energy. 

Things we didn't do to baby proof? We didn't turn down the water heater below 120. We didn't pad the spigot on the tub. We didn't pad the brick hearth edges around our fireplace. Yes, the hearth was one of Two's favorite places to climb, but it was only a 3 inch drop. We didn't tie the dresser to the wall, and Two definitely did the "pull out the dresser drawers and make them into stairsteps" thing. And QUIET! You'd swear he was sound asleep when he was doing all this stuff. 

Of course, Two was the kid who, later, when wanting to joyride at 0200 in Daddy's car, took the extension ladder, put it up to Mr. Four and my bathroom window, unlocked it, came in and took the car keys out of my purse that I was taking to my room at night to keep my money intact in my wallet...

A big problem solver, Two... and very determined.

[ksgranola1]

19 minutes ago, Wenny said:

I have poison control in my phone on speed dial.  Lets see: Daughter has tried to eat all the children's gummies, Tried to drink dirty mop water and tried to eat cat litter. Yet the kid refuses to eat her food. 

I had one like that, drank the grape Tylenol. Stood in the sink & got it out of the top shelf, med. cabinet.

Stomach pump. 42 years later & I'm still traumatized.

8 minutes ago, Four is Enough said:

Two was definitely my most active toddler. The outlet covers were because he stuck anything into where there was an opening... remember the advertisements where the kid stuck the sandwich into the VCR? My Two. So the outlet covers were a must. We STILL have prongs from the clear plastic things you stick into the outlets themselves, inside a couple outlets. Two took outlet covers as a personal challenge, and yes, learned very early that a knife makes a good lever. Riding herd on that kid was worth your life and took all your energy. 

Things we didn't do to baby proof? We didn't turn down the water heater below 120. We didn't pad the spigot on the tub. We didn't pad the brick hearth edges around our fireplace. Yes, the hearth was one of Two's favorite places to climb, but it was only a 3 inch drop. We didn't tie the dresser to the wall, and Two definitely did the "pull out the dresser drawers and make them into stairsteps" thing. And QUIET! You'd swear he was sound asleep when he was doing all this stuff. 

Of course, Two was the kid who, later, when wanting to joyride at 0200 in Daddy's car, took the extension ladder, put it up to Mr. Four and my bathroom window, unlocked it, came in and took the car keys out of my purse that I was taking to my room at night to keep my money intact in my wallet...

A big problem solver, Two... and very determined.

DAAAMN! You must sleep like a hibernating bear! Have to give the kid credit for ingenuity. And stamina.

[Denim Jumper]

3 hours ago, Fundie Bunny said:

But, what's with the outlet covers anyway? I just can't understand why a kid would decide to stick something on it. I barely even noticed plugs until i was like 4. Does anyone have a child that had a fixation with it?

One of my brothers, when he was about 3 or so, stuck a key in an outlet. He was pretending to drive a car.

[CreationMuseumSeasonPass]

1 hour ago, ksgranola1 said:

I had one like that, drank the grape Tylenol. Stood in the sink & got it out of the top shelf, med. cabinet.

Stomach pump. 42 years later & I'm still traumatized.

DAAAMN! You must sleep like a hibernating bear! Have to give the kid credit for ingenuity. And stamina.

There's something about that children's grape Tylenol flavor. And, I'm speaking from personal experience.

[MayMay1123]

what is it about middle kids? son spent so much time at the e.r. they started to really question us about his accidents...he pushed over a baby gate that somehow landed on top of his hand, squishing it (not broken) he tripped up a step and split his head open (3 stitches which he promptly pulled out when we got home), he inhaled a pistachio nut shell into his lung requiring emergency surgery and an over night stay at chop, and those are just the ones i can think of off the top of my head... ah, fun memories! he is now married and trying for one of his own, somehow they usually do survive

[MakeItSo]

apparently I was one of those baby escape artists figuring out how to open pretty much anything labelled "baby proof" as a kid. Out of all my siblings I was supposedly the most adventurous and curious. What can I say?  

I remember my friends' houses when I got older had foam covering the corners of tables etc so they went all out for their little siblings...we just had baby gates, and those cabinet safety things but they were nothing for little kid me apparently  oh we had outlet covers, too.

[imokit]

7 hours ago, nausicaa said:

My curiosity is trumping my fear of another mommy war: what are the reasons people have for being anti-baby proofing? I mean, is this like an organized ideology? 

Hate to mention it, but in a Duggar thread it needs stating.  There are fundies who don't believe in baby proofing.  It also a Pearl thing. They believe, you don't baby proof a house, you house proof a baby.  As soon as a baby can move, you start spanking it, if it goes after things.

Libby Ann mentions it here: http://www.patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2011/07/giving-the-child-the-rod.html

We don't know formally what the Duggars did, but we know that Michelle used to recommend TTAC, its possible that the Duggars didn't baby proof and Jill either doesn't know about baby proofing or knows about but doesn't believe in it 

[ClaraOswin]

I kind of wonder if Jill taking videos showing Izzy taking stuff off shelves, cruising on furniture, playing with the fan, etc. is her way of saying - "Look, we don't blanket train!"  Whether or not they do or don't, I have no idea. But I feel like the videos are there so show that they let Izzy explore.

[Bad Wolf]

There was talk a long time ago that M encouraged blanket training, and recommended a flexible ruler for hitting the child. When they became famous, she removed it from her blog or Facebook or wherever she had posted it.

[quiverofdoubt]

Just now, ClaraOswin said:

I kind of wonder if Jill taking videos showing Izzy taking stuff off shelves, cruising on furniture, playing with the fan, etc. is her way of saying - "Look, we don't blanket train!"  Whether or not they do or don't, I have no idea. But I feel like the videos are there so show that they let Izzy explore.

The thing is, that's terrible proof. blanket training isn't meant to be used all day- just for short periods (at least according to how michelle described it in her book).  Short periods throughout the day.  So she could easily be letting him explore, then saying "ok izzy, time for blanket time! you need to show self control" and plopping him on a blanket.  We just get pictures of the non blanket part of his day.

[socalrules]

We have seen the Duggar kids walking on counters, using equipment without proper safety equipment, sliding down banisters, etc. I am not sure Jill defines safety the same way we do. She likely doesn't know about baby proofing a house because she has always lived in a house with babies and there was never a big deal being made about making the house safe for them. The house would have to have been baby proofed the minute they moved in because there are always babies there. Jim Bob and Michelle were going to spend money baby proofing the TTH when they could just have the older kids make sure the younger ones don't accidentally kill themselves. 

[tcach]

Electrical outlets and foreign objects: not just for kids. I was in 4th grade and we were doing something with microscopes in the science area. There was a long counter with outlets along it. I was talking to one of my friends who was holding a pair of forceps she looked at me and then stuck them directly into one of the outlets.

[Shadoewolf]

The thing that bothered me with Jill and Izzy pulling stuff off of shelves was her tone.  "Israel, are you supposed to be doing that?" Like I get the image in my head that she's probably already smacked his hand or reprimanded him somehow for doing it before. He's a baby! I'd be more worried about him nomming on the fan then pulling diapers off the shelf.

I'm not huge on baby-proofing but my youngest was really curious so we had outlet covers but that was about it. We learned to keep alcohol out of the house period after my middle one found those fruity alcohol shots in a test tube and drank like 20 of them when she was about 3.   The friend I just had to report to CPS...epic disaster for their 2 year old. Knives left right on the edge of the kitchen counters, step stool right in the kitchen leaned up against the wall (small one so he can easily pop it up and get into things) the plugs don't even have normal covers so the outlets and wires are just hanging out everywhere. Chemicals in easy reach in both the kitchen and the bathroom. Razors left in the bathroom in reach.  (as a matter of fact their 6 year old just cut the hell out of her legs because a razor was left in their reach and she decided she wanted to shave her legs unsupervised).  Yeah there's baby/toddler proofing even without having to go to extremes,  and....not.

[ToriT]

My son took a hand held pencil sharpener and tried to sharpen his finger.  Who knows how they come up with some of the things they do.  It was the one and only time he tried it.

My son took a hand held pencil sharpener and tried to sharpen his finger.  Who knows how they come up with some of the things they do.  It was the one and only time he tried it.

[quiverofdoubt]

4 minutes ago, Shadoewolf said:

The thing that bothered me with Jill and Izzy pulling stuff off of shelves was her tone.  "Israel, are you supposed to be doing that?" Like I get the image in my head that she's probably already smacked his hand or reprimanded him somehow for doing it before. He's a baby! I'd be more worried about him nomming on the fan then pulling diapers off the shelf.

I'm not huge on baby-proofing but my youngest was really curious so we had outlet covers but that was about it. We learned to keep alcohol out of the house period after my middle one found those fruity alcohol shots in a test tube and drank like 20 of them when she was about 3.   The friend I just had to report to CPS...epic disaster for their 2 year old. Knives left right on the edge of the kitchen counters, step stool right in the kitchen leaned up against the wall (small one so he can easily pop it up and get into things) the plugs don't even have normal covers so the outlets and wires are just hanging out everywhere. Chemicals in easy reach in both the kitchen and the bathroom. Razors left in the bathroom in reach.  (as a matter of fact their 6 year old just cut the hell out of her legs because a razor was left in their reach and she decided she wanted to shave her legs unsupervised).  Yeah there's baby/toddler proofing even without having to go to extremes,  and....not.

Israel is too young to understand that  Or be reprimanded for it. He *may* catch the tone, especially if he's been punished after that tone of voice before. But he doesn't understand the words, the concept, or why it's wrong to pull out diapers. And of all things he could be doing pulling out diapers isn't so bad.  Just redirect him and move on. 

My toddler managedto get a razor once. i forgot it was still in the bath with us, and it only took a second for her to grab it from behind my back.  She was ok though.  Now I doubt she'd attempt to shave anything, as she probably has no idea what the razor is for.  Mommy doesn't get a lot long showers.  

 

I'd be surprised if jill doesn't know about baby proofing. It's pretty well known in the country at large. And if you are part of any social media and a parent you've been e-mailed/seen fb links, references, etc to baby proofing.  At least lots of ads about buying babyproofing gear.  In duggar world though you world proof children and house proof babies and not the other way around.

[ksgranola1]

Didn't Miss Cathy bring them plug covers when she came to visit when Izzy started to crawl?

[Denim Jumper]

My youngest had a thing with putting stuff in his nose. The first time it was a dried bean (he must have swiped one while I was getting ready to soak them); he was only 18 months old, so not much vocabulary yet, but he walked up to me saying "Uh oh" pointing at his nose with a panicked look. It was really wedged back there, and I had no idea what to do, but we got it out. It just got to be a habit to check his nose every so often, mining for things like pencil erasers, Matchbox wheels, game pieces, little bits of food.

One time he put something up there when he was with the babysitter; she called up freaking out, asking which hospital she should bring him to. I was was so used to it that I just walked her through the "extraction" over the phone like it was no big deal "Have him sit up, and press down on the sinus cavity. It should pop right out. Might want to check the other side, too."

At 5 years old now, I thought we were long past that, but yesterday he stuck an apple seed in there. Meh, at least now he's old enough to understand to to blow it out of his nose, instead of sniffing it further in.

[Chickenbutt]

When my boys became mobile....I removed all the "nice, family heirlooms etc" from the low shelves and replaced them with Dollar Store stuff. Every time either of them ventured toward it, we would redirect. Eventually they both learned to stay away from the shelves and we put the "good" stuff back in place. The only thing we really had a problem with, was the buttons on the VCR (this was the 80's). Those little colored lights were a beacon saying "Touch me, push me"

[PennySycamore]

2 hours ago, Denim Jumper said:

My youngest had a thing with putting stuff in his nose. The first time it was a dried bean (he must have swiped one while I was getting ready to soak them); he was only 18 months old, so not much vocabulary yet, but he walked up to me saying "Uh oh" pointing at his nose with a panicked look. It was really wedged back there, and I had no idea what to do, but we got it out. It just got to be a habit to check his nose every so often, mining for things like pencil erasers, Matchbox wheels, game pieces, little bits of food.

One time he put something up there when he was with the babysitter; she called up freaking out, asking which hospital she should bring him to. I was was so used to it that I just walked her through the "extraction" over the phone like it was no big deal "Have him sit up, and press down on the sinus cavity. It should pop right out. Might want to check the other side, too."

At 5 years old now, I thought we were long past that, but yesterday he stuck an apple seed in there. Meh, at least now he's old enough to understand to to blow it out of his nose, instead of sniffing it further in.

Dr Lendon Smith used to say that if a kid put a bean up his nose to blow into his mouth and the air pressure would force the bean out.  I don't know if that's true or not though.  Dr Smith also said that allergic kids were more likely to put things up their noses in an effort to scratch the nose.

[typo brahe]

Kids are weird. My older sister, also a middle child, was apparently very... rough and troublesome? She'd always end up breaking things around the house and getting herself hurt. My mom said she had to take her to the ER so many times for things like a dislocated shoulder that the staff thought she was being abused.

Apparently I was a really sweet, easy kid until I reached school age, around 4. I was really antisocial and stubborn, and then I developed horrible seperation anxiety. When I think back on it, the emotions I felt as a little kid were just as powerful as the ones I feel today. My childhood was a really sad one, in terms of how I thought of myself. I didn't mean to get personal or off-topic and I'm not trying to sound preachy or anything, but I think it's important to respect kids' emotions, even if they're stupid or don't make sense.

Circling back to fundies, it makes me incredibly sad to know that there are kids like me involved in this culture that will probably never receive the support and tenderness that they need, even into their adult lives.