Jill, Derick and Israel part 14

[EmCatlyn]

8 hours ago, JillyO said:

I agree. Digging wells is better than just preaching at people (probably in English), but I still don't understand why they need Americans to come do it for them. Doing a fundrsaiser and using the money to hire locals to do the work would acually serve the dual purpose of making sure the village receives a well AND creating jobs. If they honestly can't find a local engineer, by all means, bring one in. But I fail to see what a bunch of high schoolers could accomplish that locals couldn't. It reeks of white savior complex to me.

I don't know anything about this specific project, but I believe in most cases like this locals are hired to do the heavy/dangerous/skilled work and the Americans help with carting debris, bringing clean water, lemonade, whatever to workers.  The presence of the Americans usually brings money to the economy, it is educational for the kids to be in a different country helping others.  As opposed to the kind of tourism that treats the locals as part of the entertainment, this sort of trip, where you work alongside the locals, is a good way to get to know the people of another country as partners.

Yeah, some people may see themselves as "rescuing those poor natives" but the real goal is to have the American volunteers connect with and recognize that these are real people like them.  

 

[Handmaiden of Dog]

EmCatlyn you wrote exactly what I was thinking.  To be sure we talk a lot about those Missioncations where people like the Duggars stay in resort-like areas, pass out tracts and candy to children and pat themselves on the back for "witnessing" and "spreading God's love" to the locals while simultaneously belittling the religion and lifestyles of the locals.  What Catholic and NOT 'ebil' describes is a far cry from that.  It sounds like a great project and a good learning experience for the American kids.  I think it would be great if more American children got out into the world and learned about other cultures and other ways of living.  It wouldn't hurt some of them to turn in their X-Boxes for a spade and wheelbarrow for a couple of weeks and it might help with their empathy skills.

[Four is Enough]

Well, Catholic and not ebil, I , too, am Catholic, and I responded to Mercer's remarks in what was probably a similar vein to her thinking... my thought was about those "mission cations" and not people actually trying to help. My mind slid right to Duggars and their ilk, and right past the thought of people who are actually trying to help people improve their environment in the spirit of giving and helping and no more.

My intent was never to insult or demean your child's church or their efforts. I apologize.

[2manyKidzzz]

I think it is a good experience for the students going to build the well, because, as mentioned above, it gives them the experience of seeing real people in circumstances which are more difficult than their own. Could literally be life altering. Good all around. 

[Grimalkin]

2 hours ago, EmCatlyn said:

I don't know anything about this specific project, but I believe in most cases like this locals are hired to do the heavy/dangerous/skilled work and the Americans help with carting debris, bringing clean water, lemonade, whatever to workers.  The presence of the Americans usually brings money to the economy, it is educational for the kids to be in a different country helping others.  As opposed to the kind of tourism that treats the locals as part of the entertainment, this sort of trip, where you work alongside the locals, is a good way to get to know the people of another country as partners.

Yeah, some people may see themselves as "rescuing those poor natives" but the real goal is to have the American volunteers connect with and recognize that these are real people like them.  

 

         Our church (Catholic) had a mission of sorts in Haiti. The only people who went to Haiti were our priest and one or two others who were in charge of the project. It was really about raising money for bricks to build homes. They didn't want volunteers because it took jobs away from the locals.

[PennySycamore]

8 hours ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

I wonder what the statistics are on how many people are chewed up by a cougar in that particular "dangerous" place. I think I have run the cougar theme into the ground, but I have enjoyed doing so. Bad me. 

Do they even have cougars (the animals, not the older women) in Central America?  Isn't the big cat in Central America the Jaguar?

[Buzzard]

Jill and Derick:

Watching for Cougars

Sounds like a pretty typical plotline for the show. 

[Mercer]

10 minutes ago, PennySycamore said:

Do they even have cougars (the animals, not the older women) in Central America?  Isn't the big cat in Central America the Jaguar?

Seemingly they do.

The More You Know.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cougar#Distribution_and_habitat

[2manyKidzzz]

But the danger of gangs and violence is also what they talk about., I have no idea the scope of this danger, I know it is dangerous danger, but do not have a handle on any true description of exactly what the extent of the dangerous danger is. Danger.

[Bad Wolf]

1 minute ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

But the danger of gangs and violence is also what they talk about., I have no idea the scope of this danger, I know it is dangerous danger, but do not have a handle on any true description of exactly what the extent of the dangerous danger is. Danger.

Well, as long as you're aware that it's dangerous, I think you'll be alright.

[2manyKidzzz]

The reality is there are gangs, right, but to what extent I have no idea. And I don't understand why they are there if it is really that bad, with their young son. A mystery to me. 

[PennySycamore]

@Mercer, thank you for that information.  I did not know that cougars were found (or could be found) throughout the New World.

My husband saw what he is pretty sure were cougar tracks a few years ago downstate SC near the Georgia line in a wilderness area and a neighbor swears she saw a cougar run through her backyard when she lived near Black Mountain in western NC some years before that.  Cougars/pumas/mountain lions/panthers/catamounts/whatever are back!

 

[Mercer]

1 hour ago, 2manyKidzzz said:

But the danger of gangs and violence is also what they talk about., I have no idea the scope of this danger, I know it is dangerous danger, but do not have a handle on any true description of exactly what the extent of the dangerous danger is. Danger.

Gang violence is indeed an extremely significant problem in some parts of Central America. But based on my understanding, it's not really people like the Dillards who are in major ongoing danger as a result.

Those who are most affected are people in poverty, those who lack the ability to relocate away from gang-controlled areas, those who do not have an effective authority to appeal to if they are threatened, and children without adult supervision.

Based on the footage of their apartment, the Dillards almost certainly live in a nice neighborhood, very likely in an area with armed guards. They rarely seem to leave their social bubble except to visit tourist sites and/or in groups. If they should feel they are in danger at any point, they have the ability to get money for plane tickets, passports that will get them back into the United States whenever they choose, and the ability to access a consulate that will advocate for their needs.

That's not to say nothing could possibly happen to them. Tourists and aid workers are occasionally robbed, kidnapped, or even killed. They are assuming some level of risk by living where they have chosen to live.

I just think the Duggars acting like the Dillards are in constant extreme danger is incredibly overblown. They have the resources to mitigate a lot of the danger that falls on people who don't have an escape route. The main risk is to the people the Dillards are allegedly ministering to, not to the Dillards themselves, and I find it pretty disrespectful that they seem to want to co-opt that to make their adventure seem more exciting.

[Grimalkin]

47 minutes ago, Mercer said:

Gang violence is indeed an extremely significant problem in some parts of Central America. But based on my understanding, it's not really people like the Dillards who are in major ongoing danger as a result.

Those who are most affected are people in poverty, those who lack the ability to relocate away from gang-controlled areas, those who do not have an effective authority to appeal to if they are threatened, and children without adult supervision.

Based on the footage of their apartment, the Dillards almost certainly live in a nice neighborhood, very likely in an area with armed guards. They rarely seem to leave their social bubble except to visit tourist sites and/or in groups. If they should feel they are in danger at any point, they have the ability to get money for plane tickets, passports that will get them back into the United States whenever they choose, and the ability to access a consulate that will advocate for their needs.

That's not to say nothing could possibly happen to them. Tourists and aid workers are occasionally robbed, kidnapped, or even killed. They are assuming some level of risk by living where they have chosen to live.

I just think the Duggars acting like the Dillards are in constant extreme danger is incredibly overblown. They have the resources to mitigate a lot of the danger that falls on people who don't have an escape route. The main risk is to the people the Dillards are allegedly ministering to, not to the Dillards themselves, and I find it pretty disrespectful that they seem to want to co-opt that to make their adventure seem more exciting.

Also kidnapping and held for ransom is a real danger. Combined with a very corrupt law enforcement and government it can get ugly fast.

      And I have never been to El Salvador but when I was a kid and we went to Mexico we never stayed in touristy areas. We rented houses and did lots of different things. I have vivid memories of being terrified whenever we drove anywhere. My dad would fly down narrow shitty mountain roads without guard rails. Cars would come flying out of nowhere from the opposite direction. I hated every terrifying second. 

[biblelandjunkie]

i am shocked that Jim Bob and Michelle don't shell out some $$$ for a body guard/security for them since it is so dangerous there?

[SportsgalAnnie]

7 minutes ago, biblelandjunkie said:

i am shocked that Jim Bob and Michelle don't shell out some $$$ for a body guard/security for them since it is so dangerous there?

but it could be a gasp ebil pant's wearing female guard 

[LawsonBatesEgo]

8 hours ago, Grimalkin said:

         Our church (Catholic) had a mission of sorts in Haiti. The only people who went to Haiti were our priest and one or two others who were in charge of the project. It was really about raising money for bricks to build homes. They didn't want volunteers because it took jobs away from the locals.

This is why so many of these mission trips just smell like "white saviorism" to me. Instead of giving the local community the resources and training to build their own homes, people like this want to swoop in and do it all for them so they can post pictures on Facebook and everyone can pat them on the back for being such good servants of christ or whatever.

I've always said they would be better off empowering the locals to do these things themselves and their communities. What is it they say.....give a man a fish and feed him for a day, but teach him to fish and you've fed him for a lifetime. Same principle. 

 

[Dandruff]

1 hour ago, biblelandjunkie said:

i am shocked that Jim Bob and Michelle don't shell out some $$$ for a body guard/security for them since it is so dangerous there?

Jesus is their bodyguard.

[Mercer]

2 hours ago, biblelandjunkie said:

i am shocked that Jim Bob and Michelle don't shell out some $$$ for a body guard/security for them since it is so dangerous there?

Oh, I'm sure they have security - if not the Dillards personally, then at least their missionary organization and/or the neighborhood they live in. There is frankly no way that a family of very visible fish-out-of-water Americans who can't help displaying their wealth are living in an apartment that fancy in a developing country without some sort of protection, at least of the area if not the Dillards as individuals. They'd be getting robbed every weekend otherwise. 

I'm sure they'll play that down for the show to dial up the adventure, but I don't believe for a moment that armed protection is very far away for them. Which is not a bad thing, for the sake of their safety.

[MakeItSo]

Just had this discussion with my buddies last year because we all grew up in different parts of North America and so were wondering what we each called the same feline creature that haunts some people's backyards. But I wanted to give a link, too:

"Alternative terms for cougar include puma, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount"

 

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-cheetahs-cougars-jaguars-leopards-mountain-lions-panthers-pumas-lynxes-and-bobcats

 

This whole discussion started because one was talking about how their parents had a jaguar in the neighbourhood recently and then the other one said "oh yeah? we used to have a mountain lion that would roam around" ...and then some of us were like "pretty sure you guys are talking about the same thing."  

[missegeno]

Just had this discussion with my buddies last year because we all grew up in different parts of North America and so were wondering what we each called the same feline creature that haunts some people's backyards. But I wanted to give a link, too:

"Alternative terms for cougar include puma, mountain lion, mountain cat, catamount"

 

https://www.quora.com/Whats-the-difference-between-cheetahs-cougars-jaguars-leopards-mountain-lions-panthers-pumas-lynxes-and-bobcats

 

This whole discussion started because one was talking about how their parents had a jaguar in the neighbourhood recently and then the other one said "oh yeah? we used to have a mountain lion that would roam around" ...and then some of us were like "pretty sure you guys are talking about the same thing." [emoji4] 

Well, to be fair to that specific story, a jaguar and a mountain lion are very different cats, but mountain lions do have a lot of different names. Jaguars are also terrifying stealth hunters, but they are much larger, and their signature move is eating the brain right out from the top of the skull.

[Grimalkin]

39 minutes ago, missegeno said:

Well, to be fair to that specific story, a jaguar and a mountain lion are very different cats, but mountain lions do have a lot of different names. Jaguars are also terrifying stealth hunters, but they are much larger, and their signature move is eating the brain right out from the top of the skull.

           This. Mountain lions are scary, Jaguars way, way more scary.

       And apparently they are found in the us. (According to Wikipedia)

[lascuba]

The Duggar talk about "oh my god Jill and Derrick are in so much danger" is just the typical mentality of people from Bumblefuck, USA. I grew up in what many people consider "the hood," and telling people what city I'm from gets reactions like, "OMG have you ever been mugged?!" They just can't conceive that day to day life can actually be noneventful even in cities labeled dangerous.  They'd be saying the same nonsense if the Dillards were in the Bronx. To them, economically depressed area + non-white people = OMGSODANGEROUS!

[RabbitKM]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

The Duggar talk about "oh my god Jill and Derrick are in so much danger" is just the typical mentality of people from Bumblefuck, USA. I grew up in what many people consider "the hood," and telling people what city I'm from gets reactions like, "OMG have you ever been mugged?!" They just can't conceive that day to day life can actually be noneventful even in cities labeled dangerous.  They'd be saying the same nonsense if the Dillards were in the Bronx. To them, economically depressed area + non-white people = OMGSODANGEROUS!

OMG I would love for the Dillards to come to the Bronx.  

[Grimalkin]

3 hours ago, lascuba said:

The Duggar talk about "oh my god Jill and Derrick are in so much danger" is just the typical mentality of people from Bumblefuck, USA. I grew up in what many people consider "the hood," and telling people what city I'm from gets reactions like, "OMG have you ever been mugged?!" They just can't conceive that day to day life can actually be noneventful even in cities labeled dangerous.  They'd be saying the same nonsense if the Dillards were in the Bronx. To them, economically depressed area + non-white people = OMGSODANGEROUS!

      El Salvador is considered the most violent country in the northern hemisphere. US citizens don't seem to be targeted but you need to be very aware of your surroundings at all times.  I don't think I would be very comfortable living there without knowing the language. People could literally talk about robbing me right in front of me and I would probably  smile at them.