Apostolic Clerk Disobeys SCOTUS, Denies Gay Marriage License

[JesusPony]

So, she already failed! She can't even fundie right.

[Bethella]

So, she already failed! She can't even fundie right.

She was misled by Satan. :o

[DugFan]

An article in the Detroit Free Press compares her refusal to fulfil all her duties on religious grounds to an Amish man applying to be a bus driver - and then refusing to drive!

http://www.freep.com/story/opinion/cont ... /71505026/

(Link not broken because press)

I liken it more to this woman applying at Nordstroms and then insisting on wearing that jumper and keeping that hairstyle! :lol: :lol:

[spud]

(government document) http://ethics.ky.gov/SiteCollectionDocu ... sGuide.pdf

http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kentucky-cl ... authority/

So she found her god 4 years ago but was only elected to this position last November. I'm surprised to see that she ran as a Democrat, I associate her extreme beliefs with republicans usually.

[TuringMachine]

She was misled by Satan. :o

Oh no, does Satan have a hidden fortress in her heart too?

[spud]

And it gets better. Not only is she committing adultery with her 4th husband, because " wasbands" 1, 2, and 3 are still living, but she gave birth to twins 5 months after divorcing her first husband. The biological father of those children was husband number 3, but husband number 2 adopted them.

Ordinarily I don't approve of slut-shaming but I might be persuaded to make an exception for her.

I have a feeling she's holding out for the big bucks that a gofundme campaign will net her. Give it up, Kim. You have had your 15 minutes of fame.

According to that Daily Mail piece, Husband no4 was married to her before. So if he was Husband no1, she might consider herself no longer an adulteress.

[chaotic life]

Husband #4 was also husband #2, not #1. He's the one she married right after having her twins but not the biological father of the twins.

[dpndetfarm]

No, it does not apply. The county judge cannot issue them when she is available and she's always been available, just unwilling. The judge was asked to by one couple (at least) and when he consulted with the county attorney he was told (correctly per all my friends in government law) that he cannot issue them just because she refuses to.

Also, as I said before, there is no law against her employing her son in Kentucky. I wish there were but there simply is not.

[if it's not obvious yet, I do live in the state. I have also spent my entire career at various levels of government--state, city and county. A close friend is a county clerk in a different county. These are my bona fides on this topic. :D ]

Left to take the baby for a swim and look what I miss. Hmmm. Learn something new every day.

I realize I am wrong, but this makes no sense to me whatsoever. I would continue to argue that she is absolutely unavailable since she will not issue the marriage licenses. In my mind she is unavailable to issue them. Otherwise using Kentucky logic the TC (who in NH sets her own hours, but this may be different in Kentucky) could be open one minute per week. Technically she is still available, but for all practical purposes she is not.

Second, I am not arguing that she should not hire her son. That is irrelevant here. What I am saying is that (and again I am going by NH as I couldn't find how this works in Kentucky) DTCs are not elected officials. They are county employees and thus do not have the same legal stance as the TC, an elected official. Therefore if the TC won't issue marriage licenses the DTC would act in her place or be fired by the county. Here a TC has input on who to hire as DTC, but TC does not actually hire and pay the DTC, the county does.

Finally how big is this county? I must check. 6? DTC? That's a lot in my mind, but counties in NH are almost irrelevant as far as anything the general public interacts with. Unless you are in jail.

One last thing. I am shocked that the TC is a partisan position. That seems ridiculous. I wonder if the tax collector is a partisan position too. Funny, I have often thought my state had some stupid, archaic ideas, but I guess every state has it's own idiocies. :)

[Kylolo]

I realize I am wrong, but this makes no sense to me whatsoever. I would continue to argue that she is absolutely unavailable since she will not issue the marriage licenses. In my mind she is unavailable to issue them. Otherwise using Kentucky logic the TC (who in NH sets her own hours, but this may be different in Kentucky) could be open one minute per week. Technically she is still available, but for all practical purposes she is not.

I agree with you in theory but "unwilling" does not meet the standard of "unavailable" that's required before the county judge can step in.

Second, I am not arguing that she should not hire her son. That is irrelevant here. What I am saying is that (and again I am going by NH as I couldn't find how this works in Kentucky) DTCs are not elected officials. They are county employees and thus do not have the same legal stance as the TC, an elected official. Therefore if the TC won't issue marriage licenses the DTC would act in her place or be fired by the county. Here a TC has input on who to hire as DTC, but TC does not actually hire and pay the DTC, the county does.

The son comment was for another poster. Here the deputies serve at the pleasure of the clerk. They are employees only of the clerk's office and can be fired at the clerk's whim. There is no monolithic county government, just several different offices run by each official (clerk, sheriff, county attorney, etc.).

Finally how big is this county? I must check. 6? DTC? That's a lot in my mind, but counties in NH are almost irrelevant as far as anything the general public interacts with. Unless you are in jail.

I'm guessing 10-12 employees based on the size. The clerk also records deeds, has an elections division and deals with motor vehicle issues including registration, tax, transfers and the like.

One last thing. I am shocked that the TC is a partisan position. That seems ridiculous. I wonder if the tax collector is a partisan position too. Funny, I have often thought my state had some stupid, archaic ideas, but I guess every state has it's own idiocies. :)

Every constitutional office in Kentucky is partisan. I agree it's stupid but that's just how it is. Here the sheriff collects taxes but the property assessor (we have a different term) is a partisan office as well because it's a constitutional office.

[AlwaysExcited]

I watched few videos of her, and I am already annoyed. How people manage to work with her every day?

Her voice, gestures, shit she says... Together feels like cat that scratch blackboard.

[MoonFace]

If her religious conscience interferes with her fulfilling her elected responsibilities, then she needs to resign her position. Isn't there something about the separation of religion and state?

YES!

And who the hell is she to decide who should get married or not? Clearly she, who has been married 4 times - to three different men - cannot figure out marriage and get it right.

By the way - she favors those long dresses/skirts with the chevron patterned bottoms like the Duggar girls. And then there is the long hair.

[Idolatry]

I don't have to Google when I've actually taught ethics training. The guide you linked is for state executive branch employees. County clerks are *not* executive branch employees and are not subject to these rules.

In addition, ethics charges were brought several years ago against many county elected officials for nepotism under KRS 11A.020 (the only state law that could possibly be construed to bar her from hiring her son). The most recent opinion from the state Court of Appeals on that case is 2013-CA-000524-MR which clearly states the direct hiring of family members is permissible because financial gain for family members does not include compensation for work performed.

Please do not assume a Google result is correct because you don't know the structure of government. And please do not assume my state of residency has anything to do with my intelligence.

GO KENTUCKY FAMILY VALUES! That's great keeping the family together in nepotistic paid employment in public office. You should be so proud of your state right now.

[2xx1xy1JD]

Slightly OT, but why is this an elected position? She's basically a clerk, right? Why would an administrative position based on checking paperwork and completing forms be a political thing in the first place?

My first reaction, before I realized that she was an elected official, was to wonder if it was possible to simply transfer her to a different position as a reasonable accommodation of her religious beliefs, given that an aspect of the job duties had changed.

In this case, though, that's not possible.

She ran for this position. She knew what the responsibilities entailed. She knew that she wouldn't have the authority to personally determine who was allowed to get married. She was elected in 2014, when it would have been obvious that same-sex marriage was an active topic and that the US Supreme Court could rule that bans were unconstitutional. She took the position, knowing that it came with duties that couldn't simply be reassigned to someone else. So, no sympathy from me.

[happy atheist]

GO KENTUCKY FAMILY VALUES! That's great keeping the family together in nepotistic paid employment in public office. You should be so proud of your state right now.

What the fuck is wrong with you?

[Cartmann99]

GO KENTUCKY FAMILY VALUES! That's great keeping the family together in nepotistic paid employment in public office. You should be so proud of your state right now.

You insult Kylolo, s/he very politely explains why you are wrong, and then you insult Kylolo again. :doh: Kylolo is showing himself or herself to be an asset to Kentucky. Are your responses doing the same for where you live?

[church_of_dog]

Slightly OT, but why is this an elected position? She's basically a clerk, right? Why would an administrative position based on checking paperwork and completing forms be a political thing in the first place?

County Clerk is actually a fairly high position in the county (speaking generally about typical administration of US counties). It's called a clerk but is not just "a clerk" any more than "Secretary of the Treasury" is "just a secretary".

[doggie]

Well off to jail she goes and I bet she feels all persicured and holy

[ViolaSebastian]

Well off to jail she goes and I bet she feels all persicured and holy

She's in jail until she agrees to issue the marriage licenses, it should be noted.

[Rubyroo]

I hope she's forced to wear pants in jail.

[Idolatry]

Well off to jail she goes and I bet she feels all persicured and holy

LOL, the plaintiffs asked for fines, and the judge was like hell no. LOVE IT!

(NPR) http://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/ ... pt-hearing

How much clearer can your court order be when it's from the Supreme Court? Who'd have thought courts don't like it when you frump around flaunting their orders as a state employee.

[Marissap]

She was just held in contempt and jailed for failing to issue them. This should bring the crazies out of the woodwork....

[2xx1xy1JD]

County Clerk is actually a fairly high position in the county (speaking generally about typical administration of US counties). It's called a clerk but is not just "a clerk" any more than "Secretary of the Treasury" is "just a secretary".

Do they have any decision-making or policy powers? Our system is quite different here - elections are only for politicians.

[ghost]

Well off to jail she goes and I bet she feels all persicured and holy

OMG that i just too funny. It should be a count title…Persecuted and Holy!

I fixed the spelling but I have to admit persicured is funny as hell. :cracking-up:

[Kylolo]

So the deputies had a half hour to decide whether they want to issue licenses or join her in jail.

Wow. Bunning was pissed.

[ViolaSebastian]

OMG that i just too funny. It should be a count title…Persecuted and Holy!

I fixed the spelling but I have to admit persicured is funny as hell. :cracking-up:

JAILED FER JESUS! :D

ETA: What's the over-under on how long she'll be in there? I think she'll last two weeks before conceding.