Still fundie royalty?

[princessmahina]

No way. The Bates boys are MUCH more attractive than ANY of the Duggar boys. I mean, sure, some of them aren't that attractive, but I don't think any of the Duggar boys, post puberty, are at all attractive. And all of them start balding at like 18.

Again, I'll have to disagree. The Duggar boys are average. The Bates boys are godawful looking. Just imo, of course.

[magicmeyers]

If anything the Bates are more fundie (ATI) royalty than the Duggars.

1) They are still on TV

2) They have no (known) skeletons in their closet.

3) Gil is on the ATI board of directors

4) They have married off 3 daughters to influential families within ATI (one to a BOD's son, one to a congressman's son, one to an ATI employee). (The Duggars only married off one kid, a son, within ATI and not into an influential family and that marriage is in shambles).

I agree, I think it's hard to say the Duggars were ever true fundie "royalty" considering the marriages their children made. Even when they had their show and were presumably so successful, Jessa ended up with a no-name teenager with no job prospects or standing in the ATI, and Jill married a random former missionary from a mainstream Christian family (albeit one with a job/degree). Josh married Anna, who was at the time just this mousy girl from a poor family. That's all really weird considering how well Alyssa, Erin, and Michaela did in the world of fundie marriages. (Zach's wife Whitney is pretty nomal/not ATI-affiliated as far as I know, but she's also really cute and generally wonderful.) I suspect Josh's teenage "mistakes" were common knowledge in the fundie world, which is why he had to get a wife from 4 states away. And why the other Duggar kids' options have been limited.

[Sundaymorning]

The Duggars downfall has been very public.

But somehow, I have the feeling that those ATI/IBLP fundie crowds are very forgiving towards crimes like molestations and such. I mean, just look at the Gothard family, Bill and his brothers have done all kinds of crimes, and the fundies still follow their cult.

I think most ATI/IBLP families have skeletons in their closet themselves, and I'm not even talking about crimes like molestation, but in those circles, things like having consensual pre-marital sex seem to be considered even worse than molesting someone.

So while I agree that the Duggar's image and status have suffered, they will be able to make their comeback as fundie royality.

[Sundaymorning]

I agree, I think it's hard to say the Duggars were ever true fundie "royalty" considering the marriages their children made. Even when they had their show and were presumably so successful, Jessa ended up with a no-name teenager with no job prospects or standing in the ATI, and Jill married a random former missionary from a mainstream Christian family (albeit one with a job/degree). Josh married Anna, who was at the time just this mousy girl from a poor family. That's all really weird considering how well Alyssa, Erin, and Michaela did in the world of fundie marriages. (Zach's wife Whitney is pretty nomal/not ATI-affiliated as far as I know, but she's also really cute and generally wonderful.) I suspect Josh's teenage "mistakes" were common knowledge in the fundie world, which is why he had to get a wife from 4 states away. And why the other Duggar kids' options have been limited.

I think that has to do more with Boobs need to control the lives of his adult children than with the fact that the Duggar girls wouldn't have found a fundie royality man if they really would have wanted to.

I mean, marrying a fundie royal would have probably meant to move to another state out of the reach of the Duggars and Boob certainly wouldn't have been able to boss around employ his son-in-law as his own personal lawn boy.

[RosyDaisy]

Speaking of IPLP/ATI royalty, who would you say is fundie royalty in that crowd. My shot list includes

Wallers

Staddons

Paines

Bates

Keilens

[bingbangboom]

Why do you say David Waller is gay?

Is it like a Todd Chrisley thing?

I love Todd and Julie! They seem so fun.

[Sundaymorning]

Speaking of IPLP/ATI royalty, who would you say is fundie royalty in that crowd. My shot list includes

Wallers

Staddons

Paines

Bates

Keilens

I agree with the families you mentioned.

In addition to the families already mentioned, my guess would be that anyone who has made it on the board of directors of IBLP, is IBLP royality too. I don't really know these familes, but according to their website (iblp.org/about-iblp/corporate-information/board-directors) other board members are:

- David York (8 kids),

- Anthony Burrus,

- John Stancil (I found this blog post about him: heresyintheheartland.blogspot.ch/2014/02/john-stancil-scripture-sex-success.html)

- Tim Levendusky (one son).

OT, but does anyone know this blog: heresyintheheartland.blogspot.ch/ ? I don't really have the time right now to inspect it in detail, but it seems quite interesting.

[luv2laugh]

Is there really such a thing as "Fundie royalty" anymore? I I think the fall of the Duggars is the last of the fundie fame... There is the Bates family but they cater to the same audience that the Duggars did and it's outdated now. Now that the Duggars are done, fundie fame is a trend of the past. Doug Phillips and Gothard both fell, there is not much left.

[RosyDaisy]

Thanks, y'all.

[genueny]

OT but wouldn't it be a great outcome if Anna slammed the door on the whole fundie crew and became a gay icon ? I always like a rainbow and unicorn ending.

As for Fundie Royalty I don't think you can beat the Bates family. They don't seem to have the smug vibe . JBoob is on the outside looking in .

[HereticHick]

Is there really such a thing as "Fundie royalty" anymore? I I think the fall of the Duggars is the last of the fundie fame... There is the Bates family but they cater to the same audience that the Duggars did and it's outdated now. Now that the Duggars are done, fundie fame is a trend of the past. Doug Phillips and Gothard both fell, there is not much left.

I agree!!

Since the ATI empire is crumbling (also known as downsizing & moving to rural Texas) I don't know if it means much to be fundy royalty. There isn't much of a empire left to rule over.

I am still convinced that the just announced shuttering of the ATI headquarters in Oak Brook means that someone in the ATI aristocracy--a Keilen, Payne, Staddon or Waller--is going to be jobless in a few weeks or months.

[Sundaymorning]

I agree!!

Since the ATI empire is crumbling (also known as downsizing & moving to rural Texas) I don't know if it means much to be fundy royalty. There isn't much of a empire left to rule over.

I am still convinced that the just announced shuttering of the ATI headquarters in Oak Brook means that someone in the ATI aristocracy--a Keilen, Payne, Staddon or Waller--is going to be jobless in a few weeks or months.

I hope that ATI/IBLP will be history soon. However, I think there will always be some kind of "fundie royality", the question is only, at what scale. Unfortunately, even if ATI/IBLP disappears, some other organisation with its own "royality" will probably take its place. But hopefully, the number of people and families who will take part will get smaller and smaller.

[2manyKidzzz]

I did not read about the closing of ATI in Oakbrook. Anyone know more about this and willing to share?

[HereticHick]

I did not read about the closing of ATI in Oakbrook. Anyone know more about this and willing to share?

There is a thread about it in Quiverfull of Snark.

[2manyKidzzz]

Thank you I will check it out.

[YoshiCat]

If I were going to pick a fundie family to be the poster children of my cult I would pick the Bates over the Duggars. I would think you would want to put the greatest face on the cult possible. With the Bates you have educated parents, individual children, and they are all fairly attractive. With the Duggars you have parents who appear to barely made it out of high school, 19 cookie cutter kids, and hit and miss in the looks department. They just don't seem to have as much going for them as the Bates so how did they reach the royalty status that they appeared to have prior to Joshgate 1, 2, and now 3 or is it 2.5?

I know that being Gothardite/IBLP means everyone is required to put on a happy face, but the Bates family seems more genuinely happy to me. The kids seem more like individuals and Kelly seems more like she knows her own children and their personalities.

And they're definitely more attractive. The Duggar girls are pretty but the boys are not attractive (although I think Josiah is kind of cute in his own way). They lose their hair early and most of them have that weird alien-shaped head. The Bates girls are prettier than the Duggar girls and the Bates boys are pretty cute, especially Lawson. They do a much better job of pulling off the "just a nice Christian family" act. I always thought the Duggars seemed creepy even before I knew about their crazy beliefs.

I cannot stand the sight of Jim Boob and it's even worse when he talks.I just see every loser dork that wouldn't leave me alone in high school. I cannot fathom why Michelle ever went out with him. Every time he opens his mouth, my brain screams "shut up, no one cares what you have to say." For some reason, it infuriates me that people listen when he talks and that he gets to be in charge of anything.

[YoshiCat]

As a fellow lesbian with a decent gaydar, I watched about three seconds of a video of him and came to the same conclusion. I can't place why, but something about him screams gay to me.

I'm a straight woman with almost no gaydar and he pings what little gaydar I have.

I've only seen a couple videos of him and Pris together, but I thought they seemed to genuinely enjoy each other and have actual fun together. If he can muster up enough to impregnate her every so often and use religion as a reason not to have too much sex and she's okay with that, they could actually have a good relationship. I'm sure he does not think he's lying/being deceitful since he has probably managed to convince himself that he's not gay..

[magicmeyers]

I'm a straight woman with almost no gaydar and he pings what little gaydar I have.

I've only seen a couple videos of him and Pris together, but I thought they seemed to genuinely enjoy each other and have actual fun together. If he can muster up enough to impregnate her every so often and use religion as a reason not to have too much sex and she's okay with that, they could actually have a good relationship. I'm sure he does not think he's lying/being deceitful since he has probably managed to convince himself that he's not gay..

I used to think Pris and Pecan seemed really happy, but then I watched their Youtube videos. How many times do they have to mention how "love isn't about emotions, it's a choice that takes effort and prayer"????? They've only been married for about three years, right? Seems like the honeymoon phase is way over (if they ever had one).

[JenniferJuniper]

I've only seen a couple videos of him and Pris together, but I thought they seemed to genuinely enjoy each other and have actual fun together. If he can muster up enough to impregnate her every so often and use religion as a reason not to have too much sex and she's okay with that, they could actually have a good relationship. I'm sure he does not think he's lying/being deceitful since he has probably managed to convince himself that he's not gay..

There are plenty of times that he's come across as very impatient and controlling of her. When the videos focus on the kids, it's less obvious though.

I think he's gay also, but I don't think he knows it.

I've been wondering what PT and Pris have been up to since the Fall of the House of Duggar so I checked in on them just now. "We have been on a 12 week trip encouraging families in their walk with the Lord meeting in houses and churches in what we have called the Family Connection tour.

Maybe more like Davy Looking For a New Position tour.

[Walking Cat Bed]

I know that being Gothardite/IBLP means everyone is required to put on a happy face, but the Bates family seems more genuinely happy to me. The kids seem more like individuals and Kelly seems more like she knows her own children and their personalities.

And they're definitely more attractive. The Duggar girls are pretty but the boys are not attractive (although I think Josiah is kind of cute in his own way). They lose their hair early and most of them have that weird alien-shaped head. The Bates girls are prettier than the Duggar girls and the Bates boys are pretty cute, especially Lawson. They do a much better job of pulling off the "just a nice Christian family" act. I always thought the Duggars seemed creepy even before I knew about their crazy beliefs.

I cannot stand the sight of Jim Boob and it's even worse when he talks.I just see every loser dork that wouldn't leave me alone in high school. I cannot fathom why Michelle ever went out with him. Every time he opens his mouth, my brain screams "shut up, no one cares what you have to say." For some reason, it infuriates me that people listen when he talks and that he gets to be in charge of anything.

I think it's time to re-introduce my pet fake theory -- the reason the Duggar boys start losing hair early is because Jim Bob made (one of many) deals with the devil. This one? He will ALWAYS have "better" (i.e., more) hair than his adult sons.

Please remember to give me credit when you publish that one, tabloids.

[nokidsmom]

I hope that ATI/IBLP will be history soon. However, I think there will always be some kind of "fundie royality", the question is only, at what scale. Unfortunately, even if ATI/IBLP disappears, some other organisation with its own "royality" will probably take its place. But hopefully, the number of people and families who will take part will get smaller and smaller.

We have been seeing the downsizing of fundie royalty for some time now. VF has imploded, the Duggars are completely done and now ATI is downsizing, having officially admitted that business has been declining over the long term. Between scandals, limiting the future generation, and just plain demographics, they are not going to take over and win the country for Jebus. Someone here mentioned that now the Duggars are off the air, it's time for the Bateseses to shine. No, that time is past. They will have their little fandom of course and there will still be many suckers to grift off of, but they will not reach anywhere near the Duggar fame.

Regarding the HQ closure, I don't think that everyone from the fundie big shot families will continue to have jobs. Seeing a move from Oak Brook to a rather remote area of TX suggests to me that ATI is in very bad financial shape.

[Cleopatra7]

I know that being Gothardite/IBLP means everyone is required to put on a happy face, but the Bates family seems more genuinely happy to me. The kids seem more like individuals and Kelly seems more like she knows her own children and their personalities.

And they're definitely more attractive. The Duggar girls are pretty but the boys are not attractive (although I think Josiah is kind of cute in his own way). They lose their hair early and most of them have that weird alien-shaped head. The Bates girls are prettier than the Duggar girls and the Bates boys are pretty cute, especially Lawson. They do a much better job of pulling off the "just a nice Christian family" act. I always thought the Duggars seemed creepy even before I knew about their crazy beliefs.

I cannot stand the sight of Jim Boob and it's even worse when he talks.I just see every loser dork that wouldn't leave me alone in high school. I cannot fathom why Michelle ever went out with him. Every time he opens his mouth, my brain screams "shut up, no one cares what you have to say." For some reason, it infuriates me that people listen when he talks and that he gets to be in charge of anything.

The Duggar kids tend have a distinctive melon shaped head when they're little and grow out of it by the late tweens/early teens. Josie and the Lost Girls still seem to have it, though.

I think what sets apart the Duggars and the Bates is that JB has way more hustle than Gil, who just seems to be content with grifting whatever he can get. I think he'd be perfectly fine still living in the shack he had pre-TLC. JB is essentially a stage father, and that's why the Duggars landed a reality show before the Bateses. Like any good stage parent, JB started locally with his dog and pony show (i.e., the local ATI and homeschool circuit), then went statewide (i.e., using his kids as props to run for public office), and finally went national (i.e., the TLC specials and 19KAC). Gil, on the other hand, seems to think that blessings will just naturally happen to him and his family because of their faith, and doesn't hustle for it.

Based on Gil's lack of motivation, I don't see the Bateses filling the void left by the Duggars. In fact, I'm hoping that the downfall of 19KAC represents the death knell of reality show fundies. I wonder what it must be like for regular fundies, who have seen all of their idols fall in less than two years (e.g., Vision Forum, Gothard, the Duggars). My guess is they're probably doubling down on the sheltering, although Josh's implosion seems to suggest that sheltering from the outside world is useless if the real problem is predatory behavior within your own family.

[halcionne]

I've been wondering what PT and Pris have been up to since the Fall of the House of Duggar so I checked in on them just now. "We have been on a 12 week trip encouraging families in their walk with the Lord meeting in houses and churches in what we have called the Family Connection tour.

Maybe more like Davy Looking For a New Position tour.

Driving across the country on ATI gigs is David's job. The Pecans have been doing it pretty much since they got married. They use Josh's RV. I've toyed with the idea of starting a thread to follow their exploits, but they post erratically and I'm as not inclined to google IBLP shenanigans as I have been in the past. I did find a blog entry a while back from an unknown-to-us ATI family who had hosted them for a few days last year.

*digs* Found it. It's the same family Davey mentioned this week, so maybe the Pecans do an annual circuit? Last year's visit is here: nakatsus.com/ati-family-connection-phoenix/

[YoshiCat]

I used to think Pris and Pecan seemed really happy, but then I watched their Youtube videos. How many times do they have to mention how "love isn't about emotions, it's a choice that takes effort and prayer"????? They've only been married for about three years, right? Seems like the honeymoon phase is way over (if they ever had one).

I can't find the one I was remembering, it was short and they were teasing each other and laughing and it seemed genuine. And I thought the 3rd anniversary in the snow video was cute.

But love isn't about emotions?!?!?!? Ugh, emotion is exactly what love is about. Sustaining a relationship is definitely about more than emotions and takes effort, but you can't force love. I know some of the fundies think you can, or you can force love between any two people that have the proper Christian beliefs but that seems like a recipe for resentment to me.

I sometime think about a guy I dated before I met my husband. If I listed all the things I was looking for in a mate, he had them. We got along great, I enjoyed spending time with him and I have nothing bad to say about him. If one of my friends wanted to date him, I'd encourage it, because he's a great guy. But I just didn't feel that extra oomph that leads to love. By fundie logic, I suppose I should have married him, because somehow that would have made me fall in love.

But I clearly remember a moment, my now-husband and I were on our third date, I looked at him and felt this ****whoosh**** where I went from "I like spending time with this guy" to the emotion of it being more than friendship.

[smittykins]

It's like when they say "Love is an action." Which it is, up to a point. But without the chemistry, the "whoosh" as you put it(good one! :lol: ), it's just platonic IMHO.