Joshley Madison Part 5 - Rehab and women and porn - oh my!

[princessmahina]

Things I have been wondering as this unfolds:

If Josh emerges from reprogramming camp and Anna stays with him (regrettably this is what will happen) , will she have to become his full-time accountability buddies? I remember Jim Boob and GreenBlouse explaining the buddy system on an episode, and something was said about the husband and wife being 'buddies'. Will Anna be expected to follow him everywhere to make sure he doesn't sin again?

How do the other adult Duggar siblings really feel about all this? I'm not saying the other Duggar men would condone cheating, but I wonder if they have any resentment towards Josh because he's gotten away with depravity (I'm not talking about the molestation, I'm referring to porn and secret sex). I could also see there being resentment because of all the extra 'safeguards' that have been put in place as a result of Josh's actions, which leaves the other brothers with even less autonomy and privacy.

As for the single adult Duggar Daughters, I wonder if this has them thinking twice about everything they've been taught about marriage. I also wonder if any of them secretly think that Anna should leave Josh.

On a slightly unrelated note- I think I remember reading something about limited bathroom breaks at Josh's forced labor camp, and there being a rule about no more than 2 showers a day. If we send him diarrhea-enducing gummy bears it could make for a terribly messy situation for Joshy boy. :ew: :ew: :ew:

Except that no one is actually going to be sending Josh jack-squat from this website (right?) As far as I'm concerned, it's an amusing daydream in the vein of "wouldn't it be great if I won the lottery and could rescue cats?" rather than something that will actually be done. To actually do that to him would be really terrible.

[freejingerbeth]

This makes me so angry I have no words.

I just finished reading the article. Every time I think things can't get any crazier, I am proven wrong. :cray-cray: :angry-banghead: I am very concerned for the women who are in this facility. Although, I know men can be sexually abused, too. But, because of the general culture and attitude towards women, I am more concerned for them.

[chelleinchicago]

At first, I thought Daniel might be the "broken" source too, because I remember him writing that on Facebook, but it doesn't make sense because the person who says they hope Josh gets broken in rehab is the first person: the same person who talks about growing up together and spending Christmases together. Which means it has to be one of his siblings or Amy, to me.

I did some machine learning text anaylysis in a class recently where we used emails from two people to teach the algorithm how each one wrote, and you could use that to predict which was the author of an unidentified email with pretty high accuracy. There's a piece of me that wants to do this for all the likely sources and these quotes BUT I'm getting married in a week and two days so I will have to spend my time on other things! :lol:

Edited for riffles

Hey now, JB and J'chelle flew to Rockford last year two days before Jessa's big wedding, and you know how terribly involved they were in the planning and work. :lol:

Congratulations, best wishes and Happy Wedding!!!

[YoshiCat]

Per Libby Anne's blog, looks like Chester the Molester's "rehab" is covering up other child molestations.

patheos.com/blogs/lovejoyfeminism/2015/08/breaking-leadership-of-josh-duggars-treatment-center-allegedly-involved-in-sex-abuse-coverup.html

When the Josh molestation story broke, Michael Pearl said this happens in 50% of families and Jillymuffin said it was two-thirds. The RU website says 50% of Christian men and 30% of Christian women have a porn "addiction." And an awful lot of their leaders seem to have a molestation problem.

I'm seriously thinking that those 50%/two-thirds numbers may be sadly accurate. Denying that unmarried people have sexual feelings doesn't make it true. And trying to force people to not have sexual feelings doesn't work, those feelings squirm out one way or another and not always in a healthy way.

I certainly understand why they think no one, especially men, can control their sex drive and need to be watched at all times. They have so many examples of people, especially men, who weren't able to control it.

But unfortunately they never seen to see that their repression is what leads to inappropriate and harmful behavior.

[TL;DR]

But....but....it comes in pink. :wink-kitty:

*hork*

[laundry]

imgur link of the InTouch Magazine

"Josh Cheated With Me!"

imgur.com/a/0JVxH

Thank you for this. Although it wasn't that much new info in addition to the online articles, it did answer the questions about if Danica knew who Josh was or if he was married (no) or if Josh was the one paying for a hotel room (no).

[SPHASH]

Sad that Anna'sister Rebekah is getting a divorce.

[Punchi]

If he had a lick of sense and a credit card with a balance he'd light out of there and emigrate to another country where he's not known and where people will pay him to teach English to foreigners. He hasn't got any background in teaching English as a Second Language, but he speaks English. For a lot of organizations that teach people on the cheap, that's enough. As far as we know he's never been convicted of a crime, so he might be able to get a work visa and eventually apply for citizenship. The Duggars can explain this as Josh "choosing a life of celibacy to make up for his sins" and "doing God's work in Chile" (or wherever in the world he might go that doesn't have a big Duggar fanbase). Meanwhile he could play around to his heart's content as long as he's making money, though he obviously won't have the equivalent of $1500 to throw around at one prostitute at any given time.

Josh doesn't have much future in America. I suspect that at one point Jim Bob thought "He's married and he's got a wonderful job; I'm proud of him! Problems solved!" Jim Bob doesn't strike me as a man who has much tolerance for his children not being like Daddy and obeying Daddy, and Josh has shown repeatedly that he'll say whatever Jim Bob wants and then go back to doing whatever Josh wants to do. Is it ever possible in the fundie world for a father to say "I've listened to him repent and then he sins again, I've gotten him the best help I possibly could [har har], he lies and has dishonored our family, his wife, his kids, his sisters (not that THAT mattered), and Meeeshell. I wash my hands of him--he's on his own, since he won't bend to my headship. Let him stay in Chile. I don't know where that leaves Anna, but he's not a husband to Anna like I'm a husband to Michelle. He's just let her town too much. He's let me down too much, too."

Not much of a solution for Anna and her children, but arguably a lot better than having to go to bed with a man who has heartlessly cheated on her, wondering what he's thinking and if he's pretending she's somebody else and whether he picked up any STDs and why he wanted to cheat on her and whether she's inadequate and whether she loves him in any sense at all.

Sorry, but i´m in Chile and the Duggar´s show was on Discovery Home and Health. Please, don´t send your garbage to us, dispose it in your own country.

[Themiscyran]

I just finished reading the article. Every time I think things can't get any crazier, I am proven wrong. :cray-cray: :angry-banghead: I am very concerned for the women who are in this facility. Although, I know men can be sexually abused, too. But, because of the general culture and attitude towards women, I am more concerned for them.

It's really horrifying that some people are in this facility because they really, really need help--and probably have no idea about its past with perpetuating sexual abuse.

One of the reasons the bullshit about sexual abuse angers me so much is that it just perpetuates the problem and guarantees there will be MORE VICTIMS. No-one should seek treatment in good faith and then be victimized. And some people who are court ordered may have little or no choice about being there. In any case, they are going to be very vulnerable. Yet the leadership of this program has a history of enabling/turning a blind eye to sexual abusers. That makes this place much worse than being useless, and potentially a site of active harm. :pull-hair: TERRIBLE.

[Sundaymorning]

When the Josh molestation story broke, Michael Pearl said this happens in 50% of families and Jillymuffin said it was two-thirds. The RU website says 50% of Christian men and 30% of Christian women have a porn "addiction." And an awful lot of their leaders seem to have a molestation problem.

I'm seriously thinking that those 50%/two-thirds numbers may be sadly accurate. Denying that unmarried people have sexual feelings doesn't make it true. And trying to force people to not have sexual feelings doesn't work, those feelings squirm out one way or another and not always in a healthy way.

I certainly understand why they think no one, especially men, can control their sex drive and need to be watched at all times. They have so many examples of people, especially men, who weren't able to control it.

But unfortunately they never seen to see that their repression is what leads to inappropriate and harmful behavior.

The things about these statistics, beside that fact that most fundies are excellent at "Duggar truthing" things, is that they have such twisted values and world-views. That makes it really hard to actually know what exactly they mean when they talk about things like "porn addiction".

It would be interesting to know how exactly they define a "porn addiction" in first place, cause I bet it's not the definition a real psychiatrist would use.

Same with their claim that molestation occurs in 2/3s of all families. I'm not saying that fundie families, because of their idiotic cult-dogmas, don't have higher molestation rates than "normal" ones, but still, it would be very interesting how they define the words they use.

[VelociRapture]

Sorry, but i´m in Chile and the Duggar´s show was on Discovery Home and Health. Please, don´t send your garbage to us, dispose it in your own country.

But, but. . . please? We don't want him either! :cry: :lol:

[gemma]

Sorry. I wasn't explicitly clear, but what I'm getting at is that these are not treatment centers. They're religious retreats (for lack of a better word), and should be very clear that no actual "treatment" is being provided, just prayer and forced labor AND that these methods are not recognized or endorsed by the medical or scientific community. Disclaimers aside, the comments from the facility use words phrases like "most effective method in America" which can lead the less discerning to believe that these methods are tested and legit. And, of course, that's obviously the intent, since it's hard to bilk people out of their hard earned money if you're straight up that your facility is 99% bullshit.

Maybe that's fine for addiction. I'm not an expert there, but my understanding is that the empirical data is mixed, to put it mildly. However, my understanding is that there are people at this facility who may be dealing with food disorders, depression and other actual mental illnesses that the people involved don't necessarily understand are medical diseases, not Satan's Fortresses in Their Hearts. Someone else said it better - the diagnosis for these people is "SIN," which anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorpia, depression and a whole host of other problems are not and treating them as such only makes the problem worse. Unlike Josh's so-called sex addiction, those diseases can and do progress into life-threatening stages if not properly treated. It's unconscionable that any non-medical facility could offer "treatment" for them.

I know a bit about eating disorders and the inpatient tx they get. They require a team of medical experts or a pt could die.

[justoneoftwo]

The things about these statistics, beside that fact that most fundies are excellent at "Duggar truthing" things, is that they have such twisted values and world-views. That makes it really hard to actually know what exactly they mean when they talk about things like "porn addiction".

It would be interesting to know how exactly they define a "porn addiction" in first place, cause I bet it's not the definition a real psychiatrist would use.

Same with their claim that molestation occurs in 2/3s of all families. I'm not saying that fundie families, because of their idiotic cult-dogmas, don't have higher molestation rates than "normal" ones, but still, it would be very interesting how they define the words they use.

I wonder if the stats come from including kids who do the I'll show you mine thing. Its not the same, but maybe they don't understand the difference.

[browncoatslytherin]

But....but....it comes in pink. :wink-kitty:

pink cannot save everything!

[Punchi]

But, but. . . please? We don't want him either! :cry: :lol:

Obama still does not close Guantanamo. Could you leave it there? Extra points if his punishment is to see television programs about gay couples living happy contributing to society, listening Village People Music and dancing YMCA.

In Chile we have earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, landslides and pedophiles Catholic priests. Try with a country with less disasters.

[Whoosh]

tl;dr it seems to me there are plenty of red flags about thsi particular program, even leaving aside the question of whether a 12 step programs or another approach can be empirically proven more successful for treating addictions.

Sorry. I wasn't explicitly clear, but what I'm getting at is that these are not treatment centers. They're religious retreats (for lack of a better word), and should be very clear that no actual "treatment" is being provided, just prayer and forced labor AND that these methods are not recognized or endorsed by the medical or scientific community. Disclaimers aside, the comments from the facility use words phrases like "most effective method in America" which can lead the less discerning to believe that these methods are tested and legit. And, of course, that's obviously the intent, since it's hard to bilk people out of their hard earned money if you're straight up that your facility is 99% bullshit.

Maybe that's fine for addiction. I'm not an expert there, but my understanding is that the empirical data is mixed, to put it mildly. However, my understanding is that there are people at this facility who may be dealing with food disorders, depression and other actual mental illnesses that the people involved don't necessarily understand are medical diseases, not Satan's Fortresses in Their Hearts. Someone else said it better - the diagnosis for these people is "SIN," which anorexia, bulimia, body dysmorpia, depression and a whole host of other problems are not and treating them as such only makes the problem worse. Unlike Josh's so-called sex addiction, those diseases can and do progress into life-threatening stages if not properly treated. It's unconscionable that any non-medical facility could offer "treatment" for them.

I am obviously super new here and don't want to leave the wrong impression. I agree whole heartedly with the posters quoted above.

In terms of addiction treatment, some of the problems people are having with RU are fairly common in the rehab/recovery industry (depending of course on the type of program). I personally think that situation needs to be addressed industry wide, but some of the questionable practices such as a lack of "degreed professionals" or having people sign over their food stamps are accepted practice to a large extent. My previous posts were really meant to focus specifically on the signing over of food stamps after program costs have already been covered. That just happens certain types of "recovery" programs and with the way things now stand it does not seem unreasonable to me.

I think the general public would be quite surprised to learn what does and does not take place at many (certainly not all) rehab/recovery type programs. I once sat in on a group session discussing the dangers of codependency where the staff member leading the group informed a young mother that her relationship with her infant son was "codependent" and therefore pathological as their behaviors fit the pattern of behavior described on the worksheet. When this young woman tried to argue that it was not a pathological codependency, but rather the natural, normal and necessary relationship of caregiver and infant in which the infant is dependent and the caregiver makes sacrifices to meet the infant's needs the staff member shut her down and would have none of it. He said that was a dysfunctional thought process and would lead her back to drugs and eventual total destruction :pink-shock:

In terms of the potential damage a program such as RU can do I fully agree that the red flags for RU are huge and completely disconcerting. While I do not know of any empirical evidence, I personally find this type of program to be far more concerning that your typical 12 step model for the treatment of addictions. It seems clear to me that there is great potential for this type of program to cause harm.

To be honest, I can't even let my brain process the fact that this program accepts people with other types of disorders and claims to be the "most effective method in America". Reading the part where they claim to be helping people with "post-rape depression" literally made my brain just stop. :pull-hair: The potential for real harm to come to participants in this program is simply staggering.

ETA - the covering up etc of sexual predators and calling that some type of solution - I can't EVEN.

[chelleinchicago]

pink cannot save everything!

They labelled it: Pink (primrose). Yes, a PRIM ROSE. Sneaky bastards.

[VelociRapture]

Obama still does not close Guantanamo. Could you leave it there? Extra points if his punishment is to see television programs about gay couples living happy contributing to society, listening Village People Music and dancing YMCA.

In Chile we have earthquakes, volcanic eruptions, landslides and pedophiles Catholic priests. Try with a country with less disasters.

I find it highly amusing that you called Josh, "It." :lol:

Fair points about natural disasters and corruption. Maybe we could cut a deal with Canada instead? They take Josh and the Duggars - we'll agree not to call them stupid nicknames (like America Jr.) and to keep Justin Bieber. Any takers posters from the North?

[Dandruff]

Wonder who's paying the $7,500 - Josh or Jim Bob? If Josh really had a choice in things, and money, wouldn't he have chosen a different place? Maybe one that didn't require a 4:30 AM wakeup on weekdays?

[Queen Of Hearts]

Family member #1's statement "Who have we grown up with" screams "Josh's sibling" to me. The second one is probably further removed though. Much more distant and vague statements.

My guess is it being jessa and Ben... likely picking up some extra cash now that their show is cancelled.

[ShepherdontheRock]

My guess is it being jessa and Ben... likely picking up some extra cash now that their show is cancelled.

I mean, maybe they WERE trolling us by airing the complaint about People magazine.

[LouisvilleGirl]

Has anyone ever heard this before?

"Anna's own relationship with her mother was odd from the beginning, the report claims: "Anna and her siblings were limited to one 15-minute session per week to share their feelings with their mom."

It is from Radar Online, not very reliable but this is new to me. 15 minutes with mom per week? That is very strange even for fundies. :wtf:

Please help me with this FJers! Isn't something very similar written in the book the older Duggar girls wrote? About individual time to meet with the parents and talk/confess/pray/etc.? I could be wrong but this sounds very familiar from the Duggar angle as well. Is this normal in the fundie family world?

[LovelyLuna]

I find it highly amusing that you called Josh, "It." :lol:

Fair points about natural disasters and corruption. Maybe we could cut a deal with Canada instead? They take Josh and the Duggars - we'll agree not to call them stupid nicknames (like America Jr.) and to keep Justin Bieber. Any takers posters from the North?

:lol:

Justin Bieber or Josh Dugger who would I chose to keep... that's a tough one guys. it really is.

I vote Russia. in a scary Siberian prison. I love watching prison documentaries and the 40 below spartan prisons of Siberia scare me the most.

[SportsgalAnnie]

I think Jessa is one of the Family members mad about Josh in the Mags

[Idolatry]

I think Jessa is one of the Family members mad about Josh in the Mags

The Blessa family posted on Instagram it's not them. You know, like when teenagers put their hand on their forehead to prove they didn't fart. Can't be them. :shhh: