Joshley Madison Part 5 - Rehab and women and porn - oh my!

[doggie]

whats next chastity belts for all the dugger females? josh is going to come out of that place so horny the pet dog would not be safe if they had one.

[JenniferJuniper]

I very much think this is BJ.

From Kid Farm?

[bBvideo 560,340:39yxowlh]

[/bBvideo]

[Full enough quiver]

My uncle died of aids. I was a teenager at the time, and the way he looked at the end still haunts my nightmares. He died in agony. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Josh is a slimeball, but for the sake of his innocent wife and children, I hope he really does become a changed person. Somehow I doubt it, but on can hope.

[katana]

I stopped in my tracks, and leaned forward and back and sideways until I saw it glint in the light of the streetlight -- in and among all the OTHER things that might glint in the light on a Manhattan sidewalk in 1987! (yukkkk!) But there it was -- I found it! Took it home, washed it in its usual solution (perhaps with soap and water first, I don't recall) and continued wearing it for years to come...

:geek: :geek: :wink-kitty:

I get it. Those things are expensive! I have retrieved them from many a place and I am fine! "Fine" ;)

[violynn]

My uncle died of aids. I was a teenager at the time, and the way he looked at the end still haunts my nightmares. He died in agony. I wouldn't wish it on my worst enemy. Josh is a slimeball, but for the sake of his innocent wife and children, I hope he really does become a changed person. Somehow I doubt it, but on can hope.

:hug:

[SamuraiKatz]

So very many thoughts.... First, Josh's alter ego gets a J'name....why not Steve, Gary, Buck? Joe Smithson, our Joshie is not particularly imaginative.

Secondly, it must be damned humiliating to be a married 27 year old and have your parents march your sorry self off to Jesus Boot Camp part two.

Third, if Josh had an ounce of character or backbone, he would tell his parents to screw off and make his own way in the world. The family tell all book and movie rights would give him money for child support, alimony and living expenses.

This is all so messed up.. :wtf:

[Yoshimi]

Pretty sure Dillon spilled the beans on Amy being person #1...this is what he posted on his Instagram hours ago -

From the ET article:

"Josh’s integrity is gone," the family member continues. "It’s scary. You never know who can have a double life. You really think you know someone. Josh was caught with his hand in the cookie jar and I hope he gets broken in rehab and gets the help he needs. I hope Anna finds the strength to make some changes."

I think the second person is Jill. Statement #2 sounds very PC and includes lots of talk about prayer and love for family that seems to fit Jill more than Jessa IMO. I also can't see it being any of the other Duggar kids because I imagine Jim Bob probably has his whole family on lockdown right now. However, it'd be easier for Jill and/or Derick to get away with it since they're currently out of the country.

[mebeforee]

Apologies. My reference to Hannie and Jackson was tongue and cheek. Michelle supposedly flipped out on her kids the other day when they were caught talking to someone who was on or near the compound.

Haha, I'm glad you said this. Somehow your tone didn't come across in the post (though usually I don't have that problem reading tone even in text), and I was like 'what? How would Jackson or Hannie have unmonitored access to outside sources? Do they even have phones?' I was seriously questioning what you thought Duggar life was like :lol:

[mebeforee]

So very many thoughts.... First, Josh's alter ego gets a J'name....why not Steve, Gary, Buck?

Or Judas? :?

[gemma]

She's not fundie, she's opportunistic. Big difference.

Yeah, still trying to pull of the Nashville thing. She's not terribly talented. I don't think she'll get too far. She had initially impressed me as friendly, open and warm.....but I see her as more of a phony at this point.

[silverspoons]

Or Judas? :?

After Big Brother this summer, please no Judas!

[Chickenbutt]

After Big Brother this summer, please no Judas!

I agree!!!!

[Mama Mia]

The food assistance release doesn't seem legal at all. Like using state funds to support a private/religious institution. I'll bet they don't take insurance; they would need some kind of accreditation to be eligible.

In my experience it's pretty much universally accepted practice to have participants at residential living centers of ANY sort agree to apply for any benefits that they might be eligible for, and to assign those benefits to the facility. That is for any sort of residential addiction treatment - but also for long- term shelters, group homes, half- way houses, etc. it is absolutely legal and appropriate. Meals are provided in a group setting by the facility and the point of the food assistance program is to pay for meals for income eligible individuals. If the participant was collecting food stamps, but receiving all their food from the institution - THAT would be unethical, and probably illegal. The only places I know of where this isn't required is in short term programs , and programs where residents keep and prepare food separately. And some family programs will give the household back a portion to use for snacks etc. but definitelyassigning food assistance to the facility is the rule, not the exception.

The price for the treatment center is incredibly cheap. Average residential treatment costs for substance abuse treatment for 28 days is over $7,000 in my area. And yes, the residents who are in these programs longer term will be assigning their benefits to the facility, if they are eligible.

I have zero experience with sex addiction therapy, but in substance abuse treatment there are some accredited programs who put a huge emphasis on work. Often they are set up with participants having early morning meetings/ group/ counseling -- then working on various projects all day-- followed by more counseling/ AA/ NA / education in the evening. Most that I know of aren't faith based , but the ones that are have a prayer and bible study focus in the various components. The programs that aren't faith based, but focus on work, often seem to have a " tear them down to build them up" type philosophy.

Even the more traditional, accredited, therapy focused residential treatment centers tend to have participants do most of the in- house facility clean- up, cooking,etc. , and put a big emphasis on daily chores being important.

As far as " success" rates - well, let's just say that those tend to be a little...umm.... creatively optimistic :whistle: no matter what the treatment philosophy or structure is. Like the most highly successful substance abuse treatment center lists an 80% success rate - but what is measured is how many participants complete the program, not what happens after. To be fair though, there really is no way to get objective statistics on " success" for an addiction - unless you are limiting your questions to things like repeat arrest - but even then, you are just measuring who got caught.

[blessalessi]

I am also unsurprised about the transfer of assistance/food stamps. And I agree that the upfront fees of this place seem low.

The work aspect though.... meh. 8-10 hours per day x 5, plus some work on Saturday is very high compared to what you will see in a residential in the UK. This place positively boasts that it was built on the back of its inmates. :?

Taking part in daily chores and in the running of a garden that provides food for the community is far more normal from what I have seen over here.

But much of what that place does is quite abhorrent to me. The idea of "discipline" and sanctions for adults, wearing uniform to church, sleep deprivation. It does sound like Hepzibah House for grown-ups to me.

I feel especially sad that they cut off contact with families for so long. Unless a court finds it appropriate, or unless someone is in such a sorry state that it would be disturbing to the child, I don't see why phone calls/visits from children shouldn't be allowed on evenings or weekends.

Except this isn't proper rehab, and there is no free time when normal activities could be fitted in. Because Jesus.

[Kayel]

Pretty sure Dillon spilled the beans on Amy being person #1...this is what he posted on his Instagram hours ago -

"Josh’s integrity is gone," the family member continues. "It’s scary. You never know who can have a double life. You really think you know someone. Josh was caught with his hand in the cookie jar and I hope he gets broken in rehab and gets the help he needs. I hope Anna finds the strength to make some changes."

I think the second person is Jill. Statement #2 sounds very PC and includes lots of talk about prayer and love for family that seems to fit Jill more than Jessa IMO. I also can't see it being any of the other Duggar kids because I imagine Jim Bob probably has his whole family on lockdown right now. However, it'd be easier for Jill and/or Derick to get away with it since they're currently out of the country.

I actually think the other person is Jessa rather than Jill. Jessa was pissed about the article saying she has a "bittersweet" pregnancy. I'm guessing she realized that you cannot influence what is said about you if you don't talk. Also, I had a feeling (like many others if I recall correctly) that she and Ben were pissed at Josh in the weird interview episode of the Duggars (Digging in With the Duggars; where they showed poor, terrified Josie her bloody birth :cray-cray: ). I don't see Jill doing anything that was not JB approved. I don't see a spark in her at all...

[Whoosh]

Just a few thoughts about the food stamp issue. I am not an expert by any means, but I have had some experience in this area. My understanding has always been that the requirement to turn over food stamp benefits very much depends on what type of program it is. Programs where individuals purchase and prepare their own meals do not (to the best of my knowledge) have this requirement for fairly obvious reasons. Half-way houses typically fall into this category.

As far as programs that provide meals go, here is what I have seen.

- Programs that are covered by health insurance do not, to my knowledge, require patients to turn over food stamps as the cost of meals is covered as it would be for any inpatient treatment. Of course, you need to really have a disorder that needs serious treatment to be in any type of recovery treatment that would be covered by insurance. To continue stating the obvious, to the best of my knowledge there would need to actually be licensed professionals providing the treatment. :shifty:

- Higher-end self-pay programs typically roll the cost of meals into the overall pricing structure, as the cost of food is fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things for such a program. It also may be that the percentage of clients in such programs that would actually qualify for food stamps is fairly low. Really not sure on that one.

- Low-end self-pay programs, "holdings"*, etc. that provide meals typically DO require clients to turn over their food stamps. Further, in my experience, these programs will require clients to apply for food stamps if they are eligible but not yet receiving the benefit. This makes sense to me for three reasons. First, food stamps are a government benefit given monthly to ensure the individual has adequate food. Food stamps actually "expire" after a given period (not sure how long) if not used. It makes sense for a benefit meant to fund food for a given individual each month to be spent doing just that - and that is what happens in these types of programs when the food stamp benefits are turned over. Second, the typical individual in a longer-term, low-end recovery program that qualifies for food stamps is usually not used to having large amounts of available cash. I don't think it is any secret that, while illegal, food stamps can be sold for cash if one knows where to go. Unleashing a freshly-recovered addict with what can easily equate to a pocket full of cash isn't an ideal plan if they are used to being cash poor. Third, if the individual is expected to stay long enough that food stamp benefits would start to expire, it makes good sense to use that money to feed the individual before that occurs.

Someone upthread mentioned that programs might require individuals to turn over other types of benefits. I am not sure what types of benefits that would be. To the best of my knowledge, no one is required to turn over many types of benefits including social security benefits. Again, though, my experience is limited.

* "Holdings" are facilities that exist in some areas that are designed to house or contain individuals during the period between inpatient recovery or rehab stays (covered by insurance) and acceptance into a half-way house. These types of facilities may go by different names in different locations. Based on my experience (which is limited) and my limited knowledge of RU, this program sounds an awful lot like a "holding" to me (though it replaces 12 step meetings and education with fundie type activities). :shifty-kitty:

-Edited because it just wasn't long enough and I needed to babble a bit more on one topic :o

[Mama Mia]

- Programs that are covered by health insurance do not, to my knowledge, require patients to turn over food stamps as the cost of meals is covered as it would be for any inpatient treatment. Of course, you need to really have a disorder that needs serious treatment to be in any type of recovery treatment that would be covered by insurance. To continue stating the obvious, to the best of my knowledge there would need to actually be licensed professionals providing the treatment. :shifty:

- Higher-end self-pay programs typically roll the cost of meals into the overall pricing structure, as the cost of food is fairly minimal in the grand scheme of things for such a program. It also may be that the percentage of clients in such programs that would actually qualify for food stamps is fairly low. Really not sure on that one.

- Low-end self-pay programs, "holdings"*, etc. that provide meals typically DO require clients to turn over their food stamps. Further, in my experience, these programs will require clients to apply for food stamps if they are eligible but not yet receiving the benefit. This makes sense to me for three reasons. First, food stamps are a government benefit given monthly to ensure the individual has adequate food. Food stamps actually "expire" after a given period (not sure how long) if not used. It makes sense for a benefit meant to fund food for a given individual each month to be spent doing just that - and that is what happens in these types of programs when the food stamp benefits are turned over. Second, the typical individual in a longer-term, low-end recovery program that qualifies for food stamps is usually not used to having large amounts of available cash. I don't think it is any secret that, while illegal, food stamps can be sold for cash if one knows where to go. Unleashing a freshly-recovered addict with what can easily equate to a pocket full of cash isn't an ideal plan if they are used to being cash poor. Third, if the individual is expected to stay long enough that food stamp benefits would start to expire, it makes good sense to use that money to feed the individual before that occurs.

Someone upthread mentioned that programs might require individuals to turn over other types of benefits. I am not sure what types of benefits that would be. To the best of my knowledge, no one is required to turn over many types of benefits including social security benefits. Again, though, my experience is limited.

o

A couple of thoughts / observations --

--The recovery programs that I've had experience with mostly have a mix of private pay, insurance covered and state subsidized / state mandated beds. To the best of my knowledge they just have one policy to cover all payment types, and it includes signing over benefits ( except, as you noted, when the participant prepares their own food separately ) . Thinking about it further - this seems like a really smart policy . If it's a long term program and the participant continues to collect benefits that they aren't really eligible for - since they aren't buying food - it could cause a legal problem. And the last thing someone needs coming out of rehab needs is to be charged with fraud !

-- " Food Stamps" now come in the form of a debit card. Money that can only be used for food items is loaded monthly. So while possible to trade the card for cash --- it would be much more difficult. I think, but am not sure, that this is nationwide now.

-- the other types of benefits would be General Assistance and TANF ( welfare for individuals or families with children, respectively ) if they are eligible. Again, this policy would be to help cover the room and board portion of the treatment costs - but would have the side benefit of keeping the participant in compliance with regulations. I know some family programs collect the TANF money, but return a large portion on successful program completion. Many give back a portion for personal expenses. I'm sure they are very careful to word everything in a way that fits the requirements of the benefits program and the organization. It can be ridiculously complicated to get the exact right phrasing / policy so that no one steps over anyone's toes, or ends up screwing up the client with other programs . I'm not sure, but I think that social security operates similarly with many board and care homes. But I could be wrong. Im sure this is all much harder to manage now that everything is done by electronic deposit to debit cards. I wonder if some programs have changed their regulations because of this?

-- as to a previous post about the number of work hours seeming excessive -- I kind of have mixed feelings about this. For a sex or eating disorder it seems to not make much sense ( and possibly dangerous with an eating disorder ) but I can see the reasoning for substance abuse addictions . Especially with some target populations. If your program is aimed at people who have little to no work history because they have a) always manipulated other people into paying the bills / coasted or scammed their way through life or b) have always had the easy money of drug dealing -- then having to work a full day, every day, makes a lot of sense. And can be a really, really hard habit for people to adjust to. Even for people with a sex addiction, it may be useful for them to see that no, you can't just charm your way out of everything. And too much free time, or, as mentioned, access to money, can both be very dangerous for someone fresh to recovery. If they spend six months with a normal work schedule, that's pretty entrenched, and presumably makes it easier to carry on in the outside world.

I do have some issues with the all " volunteer" nature of the work - unless it is really used as a community service that helps people.

Reading their general overview on their website, it really didn't sound that different than some other longer term facilities. The buzz words seemed different, but meaning the same things - if that makes sense.

But, I agree, it sounds more like an intermediate stage than an initial first step in most treatment programs. But without the chemical components of substance addiction, or the dangerous health issues of an eating disorder - it might be appropriate to go without that initial phase. I don't know. Just some random thoughts.

[from the bible belt]

Gonorrhea. Apparently one of the previous users had an active infection and body fluids got on the pole. Pole was not cleaned between users and my friend got infected. Workers compensation actually paid her a settlement.

Thank you for explaining. I am surprised by this. If you can catch gonorrhea from a pole, I can imagine you'd stand risk of catching it even with a condom. There is so much female bodily fluid that gets excreted during sexual activity that can touch areas the condom doesn't cover. Very sobering.

Gonorrhea can not live outside the body

mysmoga.com/gynecology-gonorrhea.php

[JillyO]

But if people are required to apply for food stamps and then turn those over to the facility without getting a discount of the respective amount on the program cost, then the food stamps are NOT used to pay for the patients' food. It would be 100% profit for the facility.

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/who/late ... tion-past/

WHY ANNA DUGGAR MARRIED JOSH DESPITE HIS MOLESTATION PAST

Anna Duggar's parents gave their blessing for her to marry Josh despite his dark secret

Aparently one of the siblings spoke to Mr Keller and he said king David had affairs.

Worst dad of the year award...

[Milly-Molly-Mandy]

https://au.lifestyle.yahoo.com/who/phot ... 9352516/#1

8 BIGGEST BOMBSHELLS FROM THE JOSH DUGGAR SCANDAL

Mentions 'Alice' & the rumour being around for years.

[Whoosh]

A couple of thoughts / observations --

--The recovery programs that I've had experience with mostly have a mix of private pay, insurance covered and state subsidized / state mandated beds. To the best of my knowledge they just have one policy to cover all payment types, and it includes signing over benefits ( except, as you noted, when the participant prepares their own food separately ) . Thinking about it further - this seems like a really smart policy . If it's a long term program and the participant continues to collect benefits that they aren't really eligible for - since they aren't buying food - it could cause a legal problem. And the last thing someone needs coming out of rehab needs is to be charged with fraud !

First, I agree that a given program would have just one policy. I apologize if something I said seems to contradict that, that was not my intention.

I am not sure that fraud would ever be an issue. As I said, "food stamp" benefits (at least in my region as of about two years ago) are only valid for a certain period of time. Unless that has changed or varies regionally, money that goes onto an EBT card for food is only good for a certain number of months. If you don't spend it within that timeframe, it goes back into the system or whatever. I don't see as it would matter why you were not spending the money - you could be eating at shelters, eating at your parents or eating in a treatment program.

-- " Food Stamps" now come in the form of a debit card. Money that can only be used for food items is loaded monthly. So while possible to trade the card for cash --- it would be much more difficult. I think, but am not sure, that this is nationwide now.

I do realize that benefits now come in the form of a debit card and that "food stamp" benefits are only supposed to be used to purchase food. I also know that in all three states that I have lived in it is fairly easy (and distressingly common) for those benefits to be used either to purchase non-food items (stores that do this charge a premium) or to obtain cash. Last I heard, you could typically get about 50 cents on the dollar when trading "food stamp" benefits for cash. Of course the penalties for a store doing this can be steep, but with a 50% profit margin there always seems to be someone willing to step up to the plate. :cry: In low income areas, many individuals are also willing to make arrangements so that they can give you $100 for $200 in groceries. It is nearly impossible for anyone to prevent that type of situation.

-- the other types of benefits would be General Assistance and TANF ( welfare for individuals or families with children, respectively ) if they are eligible. Again, this policy would be to help cover the room and board portion of the treatment costs - but would have the side benefit of keeping the participant in compliance with regulations. I know some family programs collect the TANF money, but return a large portion on successful program completion. Many give back a portion for personal expenses. I'm not sure, but I think that social security operates similarly with many board and care homes. But I could be wrong. Im sure this is all much harder to manage now that everything is done by electronic deposit to debit cards. I wonder if some programs have changed their regulations because of this?

I wrote out a lengthly response here and deleted it as what I was trying to say basically boils down to this - if Emergency Cash Assistance, Social Security, or any other type of individual benefit were paid to a program it seems it would not be a "signing over" of the benefit as much as a "payment plan" type deal possibly on a sliding scale. What I am saying is that a given patient or client will not pay MORE because they are receiving these types of benefits (though they may indeed hand over these benefits to pay the standard cost or even less than the standard cost if on a sliding scale).

In contrast, "food stamp" benefits do not work that way. A person who has "too much" to qualify for "food stamp" benefits will not pay more than the standard program cost, whereas a person who qualifies for "food stamp" benefits will turn over those benefits in addition to the standard program costs. So, when it comes to "food stamp" benefits, things work considerably differently from what I have experienced. TANF or Temporary Assistance to Needy Families benefits gets into an entirely different type of program (as this is a treatment program for individuals). I can not see a program such as RU ever taking funds that are by definition designated for a needy family (unless maybe they take a percentage? IDK...)

-- as to a previous post about the number of work hours seeming excessive -- I kind of have mixed feelings about this. For a sex or eating disorder it seems to not make much sense ( and possibly dangerous with an eating disorder ) but I can see the reasoning for substance abuse addictions . Especially with some target populations. If your program is aimed at people who have little to no work history because they have a) always manipulated other people into paying the bills / coasted or scammed their way through life or b) have always had the easy money of drug dealing -- then having to work a full day, every day, makes a lot of sense. And can be a really, really hard habit for people to adjust to. Even for people with a sex addiction, it may be useful for them to see that no, you can't just charm your way out of everything. And too much free time, or, as mentioned, access to money, can both be very dangerous for someone fresh to recovery. If they spend six months with a normal work schedule, that's pretty entrenched, and presumably makes it easier to carry on in the outside world.

I do have some issues with the all " volunteer" nature of the work - unless it is really used as a community service that helps people.

Reading their general overview on their website, it really didn't sound that different than some other longer term facilities. The buzz words seemed different, but meaning the same things - if that makes sense.

But, I agree, it sounds more like an intermediate stage than an initial first step in most treatment programs. But without the chemical components of substance addiction, or the dangerous health issues of an eating disorder - it might be appropriate to go without that initial phase. I don't know. Just some random thoughts.

I think a lot of what we are talking about is strongly tied to what type of program is involved. I agree that this sounds like an "intermediate" type program to treat individuals. If so, in my experience there is typically not a system set up where you turn over funds and receive some type of lump sum reimbursement if you complete the program - those types of scenarios typically occur in later stages of recovery such as a sober house or half-way house type of situation. We probably have a very similar understanding of how things actually play out in various situations, but are simply coming at this from different angles.

My main point is that in this type of intermediate type program for individuals, "food stamps", unlike other types of benefits, are typically signed over by anyone who is receiving them and people who are eligible for "food stamps" will be required to apply for them. People who do not qualify for "food stamps" do not have to make up the difference in any way. Although many posters are feeling this sounds odd, when it comes to "food stamp" benefits it does make sense in my opinion.

[WorkingOnIt]

Secondly, it must be damned humiliating to be a married 27 year old and have your parents march your sorry self off to Jesus Boot Camp part two.

Not just marching you off to Jesus Boot Camp, but speaking for you as if you don't have an independent life of your own. He's 27 years old! Reading a lot of these comments by "sources close to the family" as well as the parents, they often sound like they're still talking about a wayward teenager who can't speak for himself.

[Hi. Long time lurker &c.]

[nastyhobbitses]

Pure speculation, but I wouldn't be surprised at all if Jessa was, despite supporting him publicly, privately very pissed at Josh. He has really fucked up her life several times and caused her great harm.

Yeah, I think that she's going with the "stand by your brother" because she thinks it will look good, but now that the tides have turned, I can see her deciding to get some revenge on Josh. He molested her as a little girl, she was forced to just smile and blame herself for it, then it comes out that he did that, she has to relive it on live television, her gravy train show gets canceled before she can launch her spinoff, THEN her brother has a ANOTHER scandal that further ruins her family's reputation and sends her further into obscurity when she really needs the money because her dad pimped her out to an unemployed wannabe frat boy and she has a kid on the way...yeah, this is going to be House of Cards-level revenge.

Side note that now I want a version of the Bad Blood video where Kendrick Lamar trains the older girls in combat and turns them into a badass spy squad who blow up everything and finally get vengeance on Joshlena Gomez.

[paganhomeschooler]

What, HIV is worse than being dead? Because that's what happens if one is run over by a train. We have light rail here, and just saw a train accident today on my way to the gym. It was pretty bad.

Really, I just want Josh to have some sort of daily reminder of his wrongdoing. Preferably an ironic one.

I think the big thing is, how are you being any better than him? There are people I don't like. There are people who I know for a fact would probably like to see me suffer a great deal. There are people in my own family who kind of hate me right now. I don't wish them death or long-term, communicable diseases that would make them a social pariah. Joshley has done a good enough job of that on his own. He's scum. His beliefs are lower than scum. He would probably refuse to shake my heathen hand. I still wish no physical harm to him. That is just bad juju and a pretty douchey move in general. It is being no less cruel and hate-spewing than he is to wish those things. I am a bigger person than him, and I hope you are, too.