Free Anna Duggar and the M Kids - Part 2 - Merge

[purple_summer]

She may not be willing to leave yet, but if the right "dirt" comes out in trial she may come to her senses.

[jqlgoblue]

I'm not sure... I'm not sure if she had to endure similar treatment in her marriage she would leave. If she gets to heaven, what does this life matter? I guess the same is true for her kids, but that is harder for me to swallow.

I do sincerely hope that her fundie lite siblings and Amy can convince her that a *slightly* less strict version of Christianity, where she doesn't need to stay with Josh, can get her into heaven by the time he gets itchy in the marriage again.

[Marissap]

It won't ever happen. There are far less religious people that don't leave their spouses for this type of crap. Granted not on this large of scale/publicly. But given her background she would need her parents or someone equally important to tell her it's ok to do. And even then it would be hard as hell. 

[CorruptionInc.]

With Anna, she would see this lawsuit and the whole situation as her fault. She was not readily available for her husband; even though her husband is a disgusting pig. Poor Anna. [emoji853]

[Amanda7980]

She probably also doesn't have the confidence to think that she can make it on her own.  Her whole entire life has prepared her to be a wife and mother.  I doubt she can contemplate anything else.

[NotAnIncubator]

Poor kids. Anna brought this onto herself and her children by not leaving him when the molestation scandle broke out. Or the Ashley Madison scandal broke. Or when Danica first came out with the story. She has had plenty of opportunities and offers of help from her family. If she ends up pennyless its her own fault and she has failed her family by being stupid and pigheaded. Your husband is famous making him a liability. Not to mention he's a molester and adulterer. She made her bed. Maybe she's just lying in it at this point.

[NotAFertileMyrtle]

Poor kids. Anna brought this onto herself and her children by not leaving him when the molestation scandle broke out. Or the Ashley Madison scandal broke. Or when Danica first came out with the story. She has had plenty of opportunities and offers of help from her family. If she ends up pennyless its her own fault and she has failed her family by being stupid and pigheaded. Your husband is famous making him a liability. Not to mention he's a molester and adulterer. She made her bed. Maybe she's just lying in it at this point.

I can't judge her, as tempting as it is. When you are raised as a fundie, generally speaking you have been broken. I really hope she leaves, for everyone's sake... But the way women are treated I honestly don't think she will. If she does it might be years from now.

[BarbaraMary]

Poor kids. Anna brought this onto herself and her children by not leaving him when the molestation scandle broke out. Or the Ashley Madison scandal broke. Or when Danica first came out with the story. She has had plenty of opportunities and offers of help from her family. If she ends up pennyless its her own fault and she has failed her family by being stupid and pigheaded. Your husband is famous making him a liability. Not to mention he's a molester and adulterer. She made her bed. Maybe she's just lying in it at this point.

no. She did not bring this on herself in the slightest. 

[Lewy]

Poor kids. Anna brought this onto herself and her children by not leaving him when the molestation scandle broke out. Or the Ashley Madison scandal broke. Or when Danica first came out with the story. She has had plenty of opportunities and offers of help from her family. If she ends up pennyless its her own fault and she has failed her family by being stupid and pigheaded. Your husband is famous making him a liability. Not to mention he's a molester and adulterer. She made her bed. Maybe she's just lying in it at this point.

Victim Blaming much?

Anna has been brainwashed since birth to believe that her role in life is to be a submissive wife and any cheating by her husband in the marriage is her fault for not 'satisfying him' enough. She has also been taught that God 'forgives' anyone who asks for it. Anna's parents also purposely kept her undereducated and have not empowered her in any way to stand up for herself and have normalised women being treated like dirty. 

It's easy for me to sit here and say how stupid it is for a woman in this day and age to 'tolerate' this, but I have the benefit of not being raised in the ATI cult. 

[EmCatlyn]

Back to Anna doing daycare. (I tried to quote someone up thread for 2 days on my PC but it keeps circling on this thread, hopefully posting from my phone will break the problem on my PC)

She can't do daycare. All women stay home in their circle and if they do work it is a cottage industry. Secondly, she would have to take in kids that belong to worldy, "ungodly" women like many of us here on FJ and we would be bad influences on her spirtuality. Plus she is a woman, she can't possibly run a household and earn money to support the family herself! (I need the smellin' salts, I declare us delicate woman can't do all that!)

*note, that is what the Duggars and kellers, et al, would say. I would tell her to accept her brothers help. 

I think that when most of say that she could do daycare we are thinking of jobs she could do if she left Josh.  And if she is ever able to leave Josh, maybe she will have moved away from her family's teaching enough that maybe she would find working at some Christian day care not too horrible.

And I agree that she should accept Daniel's offer of help, but I think that even after the latest events she is not going to leave.

[NotAnIncubator]

Victim Blaming much?

Anna has been brainwashed since birth to believe that her role in life is to be a submissive wife and any cheating by her husband in the marriage is her fault for not 'satisfying him' enough. She has also been taught that God 'forgives' anyone who asks for it. Anna's parents also purposely kept her undereducated and have not empowered her in any way to stand up for herself and have normalised women being treated like dirty. 

It's easy for me to sit here and say how stupid it is for a woman in this day and age to 'tolerate' this, but I have the benefit of not being raised in the ATI cult. 

People want to act like she was in this bubble on the moon with no contact with the outside world. She has had plenty of time and opportunity to educate herself. She's lived both under the thumb of JB and away in DC where she was *gasp* exposed to the real world a little more. They know what people say about them and fhey just shrug it off. They know people have serious issues with how theyre being raised, gothard, homebirthing dangers, quiverful etc but still chose to play the victim. Youre not a victim after the third incident. Youre part of the problem. 

So if josh molested one of his daughters would Anna still be a victim since she's known of his past bad acts and chose to 'turn the other cheek' and have children with him? Would it just be 'how she was raised'? I think not. She is a knowing participant in her own downfall.

[Lewy]

I think you're over-estimating just how much exposure Anna has been given to the 'outside world'. She has also had Kool-Aid forced down her throat about how educating herself is

Look, I'm not defending what Josh did, but Anna's own PARENTS think she should remain married to this monster. Anna is from a culture where your Dad is basically Jesus' mouthpiece. I know others have got out. But I just can't sit here and point my finger at a woman raised in a cult and being publicly humiliated and blame her for what is happening. 

I do truly hope she gets out. But I appreciate why that is hard for her.

[bashfulpixie]

Yes, they lived in DC.  But how much exposure would she have really had? My guess is she spent most of her days at home with the three little ones, and Josh's crowd was the FRC. Not exactly the most open minded group.

She'd have to be pretty strong to go against both sides of her family to leave him. And while she may have some support from a couple of her siblings, let's be honest, almost everyone in her world believes she needs to stay with him.  That's a hard thing to go against, especially with four young kids.

If I were her, I would have said peace out a long time ago. But I wasn't raised in a cult.

[19 cats and counting]

Isn't Thanksgiving traditionally the time where the Kellers all get together?   If Anna takes the kids (with or without sleazeball) to her parents then (as they normally do), hopefully she sees Daniel, Rebekah, or Suze and they will talk some sense into her.  

She deserves better.  Yes she is full on fundie, but no woman regardless of her beliefs deserves a cheating husband who also molested his sisters.

[nastyhobbitses]

She may not be willing to leave yet, but if the right "dirt" comes out in trial she may come to her senses.

What would be the right dirt? He's already got at least three backhoes full of dirt that we know about: incestuous child molestation for which he feels no remorse, spending almost a thousand dollars for the express purpose of cheating on his wife for which he also feels no remorse, having incredibly rough sex with a porn star, making fake OKCupid and Facebook profiles for the express purpose of finding more women to cheat on his wife with...what the hell could he do to convince Anna to leave if she's still willing to stay after all of that?

[DuggarWatch]

What would be the right dirt? He's already got at least three backhoes full of dirt that we know about: incestuous child molestation for which he feels no remorse, spending almost a thousand dollars for the express purpose of cheating on his wife for which he also feels no remorse, having incredibly rough sex with a porn star, making fake OKCupid and Facebook profiles for the express purpose of finding more women to cheat on his wife with...what the hell could he do to convince Anna to leave if she's still willing to stay after all of that?

You forgot to mention that Josh had UNPROTECTED sex with a porno star/prostitute/stripper while Anna was pregnant.  He endangered the lives of his wife and his unborn child.  How bad does it have to get?

[NotAnIncubator]

Yes, they lived in DC.  But how much exposure would she have really had? My guess is she spent most of her days at home with the three little ones, and Josh's crowd was the FRC. Not exactly the most open minded group.

She'd have to be pretty strong to go against both sides of her family to leave him. And while she may have some support from a couple of her siblings, let's be honest, almost everyone in her world believes she needs to stay with him.  That's a hard thing to go against, especially with four young kids.

If I were her, I would have said peace out a long time ago. But I wasn't raised in a cult.

considering she's had 3 siblings leave the cult, I'd think they do eventually get fed up and she clearly knows you can leave. I know she thinks its expected of her but its not like divorce is unheard of in their circle or within their covenant marriage. Which it totally is in cases exactly like this (molestation and infidelity). He literally did the one thing that gives her the easiest route to divorce.

And in DC there's no telling how much exposure she did or didnt get but considering she was in mommy groups and had a husband that is a politician/political it'd be really hard for her to be completely oblivious to the outside world. I'm sure they've discussed political topics and its not all Jesus jesus Jesus.

Y'all act as if josh was such a super devout gotherdite. I'm sure there was some small bit of devotionals but he's no Jesus freak like his mama. They were going more fundielite in their living despite Josh's job with the FRC. Anna was left to build the playhouse by herself which is typically a "mans job". She shopped and lived her life while Josh was at work. So is it so hard to believe she may have picked up a book, or read the news and kept in touch with the real world while josh worked and went to strip clubs and had affairs?

[JesSky03]

Isn't Thanksgiving traditionally the time where the Kellers all get together?   If Anna takes the kids (with or without sleazeball) to her parents then (as they normally do), hopefully she sees Daniel, Rebekah, or Suze and they will talk some sense into her.  

She deserves better.  Yes she is full on fundie, but no woman regardless of her beliefs deserves a cheating husband who also molested his sisters.

I wonder how that is going to go. Her brother sounded very angry at their parents and doesn't seem like he can keep a level head about Josh. Oh to be a fly on the wall at that dinner. 

[MyMilkshake]

I imagine there's pressure on Anna to stay with Josh from the Duggars and also from Anna's parents. That pressure is no small thing- I've seen people make huge compromises with their own happiness to avoid rejection within their families. It's very sad, but that's the hold some extremely religious families have over their kids, even grown ones. But there's a tiny amount of hope that Anna will eventually leave imo, because she does have the example of siblings that chose a different path and have managed to do fine and still be a part of the family. 

[cheshire cat]

What would be the right dirt? He's already got at least three backhoes full of dirt that we know about: incestuous child molestation for which he feels no remorse, spending almost a thousand dollars for the express purpose of cheating on his wife for which he also feels no remorse, having incredibly rough sex with a porn star, making fake OKCupid and Facebook profiles for the express purpose of finding more women to cheat on his wife with...what the hell could he do to convince Anna to leave if she's still willing to stay after all of that?

Illegitimate love child? Or proof of an aborted illegitimate child that he paid for? That might get his entire family to disavow him. 

[MyMilkshake]

Illegitimate love child? Or proof of an aborted illegitimate child that he paid for? That might get his entire family to disavow him. 

Given how pro-life Anna seems to be, I can imagine her head popping off if it ever came out that he paid for someone's abortion.
But then again, he's shown himself to be a hypocrite in so many other important ways and she's still married to him, so who knows?

[purple_summer]

I also think a love child would probably do it. Anna was practically begging for a baby before she got pregnant with Meredith so to find out he had one with someone else might pull just the right strings.

[Cleopatra7]

I agree that the media will be all over Josh and company when he resurfaces.  The scenario you describe for the Return of Smug is what we'd expect the Duggars to script as a story line.  I wonder how smart that would be, because it's more Smuggar full of himself the Lord and making claims that could ultimately bring more shame on him, his family and their cult of purity.  It would take a show of humility on Josh's part to convince skeptics that he's experienced any real change.  It's hard to even imagine what humility would look like in Smugs.  Admitting he doesn't have all the answers might be a starting point.

What the Duggars don't understand is that things can't go back to what they were pre-Joshgate. The image of the wholesome Christian homeschool family is ruined, and it can never come back. They may have some true believers in ATI and elsewhere who will support them because they're part of the white fundegelicalism tribe, but their mainstream support is gone. I can't see a Jill/Jessa spin-off working because neither of them are really independent from their parents, and I don't see much demand for audiences wanting to see JB and Michelle, now that we know they threw their daughters under the bus in favor of Josh. Then there's also the fact that the Dullards and Benessa are not very interesting people, but that's for another post. Even a positive event (i.e., Spurgeon's birth) has been canceled out by Danica's lawsuit. I don't claim to know what went down between the two of them, but it's more bad publicity for the Duggars regardless of what happens in the end. Like other people, I think the Duggars have far more skeletons in their closet than just Joshgate 1.0 and 2.0, and more is likely to come out soon.

[singsingsing]

I'm trying to figure out what could cause her to think divorce is justified. Part of his excuse for molesting his sisters was that he hadn't been saved yet (even though on his website he claimed he was saved at some ludicrously young age, like 8). Then Jesus saved him and washed him clean. It was apparently a huge part of his testimony. That's a big effing deal for an evangelical Christian. This guy lied about his testimony. He is a hypocrite of the worst kind. He sinned in some of the worst ways possible. He shamed their family, and brought ridicule and doubt on their Christian mission. In their eyes he was essentially acting as an agent of Satan.

But if he already repented for his sins long ago and was saved, what's left? Did it not 'take' the first time? Was he lying about his salvation this whole time? He can't be saved and baptized again. I really think that's the main sticking point here, as crazy as it sounds - molestation, adultery, porn, lies, deceit, it's all bad, but the fact that his testimony was a lie and he lied about what Jesus had done in his life, I mean... can he recover from that? I don't know how Calvinistic the Duggars other than Jessa and Ben are, but if I were them I'd be having serious doubts. I'd start to think, "Maybe Josh was damned all along. Maybe his salvation was always a lie." Whether that's because he's not one of 'the elect' or because he's choosing damnation out of his own free will, is Anna obligated to stay with him, if he's actively rejecting God?

[nokidsmom]

I imagine there's pressure on Anna to stay with Josh from the Duggars and also from Anna's parents. That pressure is no small thing- I've seen people make huge compromises with their own happiness to avoid rejection within their families. It's very sad, but that's the hold some extremely religious families have over their kids, even grown ones. But there's a tiny amount of hope that Anna will eventually leave imo, because she does have the example of siblings that chose a different path and have managed to do fine and still be a part of the family. 

I am sure there is pressure from the in-laws and parents even if Anna wants to stay with Josh.  She's bound to ask questions of why or how, cry and express all the normal emotions regardless of what she wants to do.  And the responses are going be along the line that she should stay with him because that's the only action that is acceptable in their cult and they will take no chances on there being any other outcome.

Pressure like this is not to be underestimated.  I have also personally watched grown adults stay in a place that is not good for them because it's what their family expected.