Arkansas Midwife Loses License - Mother Speaks Out Merged

[August]

On 9 April 2016 at 6:17 PM, Arete said:

I don't think homebirth can be done safely in the United States.  Nurse midwives will not attend them.  The CPMs that will do not have legitimate or ongoing medical training.

That's not true, my CNM did homebirths, and she would also assist at the c-section if you had one. I had hospital births, mostly with just her, but once she called in an OB to help, then stepped back in with OB observing (once OB is called in they have to stay).

5 hours ago, littlemommy said:

I can well imagine, and that's my nightmare. My mom is a nurse and I had heard her complain about obnoxious patients. The first surgery I ever had was a sinus surgery, and I was trying so hard not to ask for pain medicine. When the nurse questioned me for not asking for what was obviously needed, I said "I'm trying to be a good patient!" I didn't want to be the subject of someone's venting when they got home. 

I ask for lots of drugs, I just do it very sweetly and apologetically. Ever since I heard how nurses bully each other I've made sure to try and endear myself as much as possible so they don't accidentally kill me to get back at another nurse.

[countressrascal]

August I don't know what state you live in and went was the last time that you used her. However as of 2015 there were only two state malpractice insurance companies who would cover a CNM for home births. Also if the CNM transfers care to an OB/GYN during active labor the CNM always stays with the patient and will assist the OB/GYN with C-section. However the person we are talking about is a person with limited or no medical training.

[Snarkylark]

2 hours ago, August said:

 

I ask for lots of drugs, I just do it very sweetly and apologetically. Ever since I heard how nurses bully each other I've made sure to try and endear myself as much as possible so they don't accidentally kill me to get back at another nurse.

What nurses are you talking to?? That is definitely not how professional nurses work. Patient safety is the number one priority. There is no bullying on my unit. I've heard plenty about it but never witnessed it in the few years I've been a nurse. Bitchy at each other occasionally, sure. Patients who aren't in pain are much easier to care for than ones who are. Don't be afraid to ask for meds. There's no prize for suffering;)

[Arete]

When I had surgery, I asked for pain meds early and often.  Because martyrdom is not my deal.  Nor did I have to keep sweet and apologize for asking.  I had not a fuck to give if my requests were inconvenient to the nursing staff. YMMV.

[allthegoodnamesrgone]

On 4/9/2016 at 5:11 PM, ClaraOswin said:

I have a friend who has had home births and they were good experiences. It's not my cup of tea, that's for sure. But I think it CAN be done right. One pretty important thing is proper prenatal care....which should include the very important 20-week anatomy scan. During this scan, many problems can be seen. Some of these problems that could show up would tell a person if they are not a good candidate for a home birth. Would that have helped Jessa or Jill? No. But it could help others.

And obviously the GBS test is important. As is receiving antibiotics during labor.

I also think a person should live VERY near a hospital or birthing center. I'm not sure how close the Duggars are to one.

And one would also need a smart birthing team. Someone that will know when transfer is needed. Clearly Jill's "team" didn't. She got lucky, IMO.

While I never would have wanted a home birth, even before my 1st child was born, at 36 weeks via c/section after 22 hours of labor 4 hours of pushing, and after my water broke.  Not my thing, I worked with a gal who had 2 of her 3 kids at home, mostly because she had such easy labors, I think she labored for a total of 4 hours between her 3 kids the midwife didn't even make it in time for the last kid.   If my 1st hadn't ended in a c/section I might have tried to have #2 at a birthing center here in town. I love that atmosphere, it isn't home but much more relaxed and home like than a sterile lay in bed hospital birth. 

[bingbangboom]

My hospital L&D nurse encouraged lots of walking, using a birthing ball, taking showers, until I choose the drugs. 

Then, I was still allowed to move in my bed, but she wanted me somewhere I wouldn't fall. At that point I took a nap, and loved the drugs.

had no idea the epi had a button though, so just one starter dose for me. 

Drugs were worth being in my bed resting before forceps pulled my guy into the world. No pain, and was walking around pretty soon after.

do some hospitals really force women in beds?

[countressrascal]

19 minutes ago, bingbangboom said:

My hospital L&D nurse encouraged lots of walking, using a birthing ball, taking showers, until I choose the drugs. 

Then, I was still allowed to move in my bed, but she wanted me somewhere I wouldn't fall. At that point I took a nap, and loved the drugs.

had no idea the epi had a button though, so just one starter dose for me. 

Drugs were worth being in my bed resting before forceps pulled my guy into the world. No pain, and was walking around pretty soon after.

do some hospitals really force women in beds?

Not in this day and age-like you they just don't want someone to fall or wander off and get lost. Normal births for hospitals are a lost leader or break even service, because under federal law they can't turn away a mother in active labor. A number of these mother's don't give correct information and they can not collect from them, plus they can't require payment upon discharge. 

The only ones that required to be in bed are prisoners, brought by law enforcement or drug users. I had a mother that was high on heroin when she showed up and during labor she tried to meet her dealer and shot up, in that case she was under constant surveillance. But the best one-we had an active labor mom who decided that she wanted a frozen yogurt so she got on the elevator went to dinning room but the machine was closed so she tried to walk across the street to Circle K to see if they had a machine here is a women ready to deliver laying on the grass in front of the hospital crowning. All she could say was I want frozen yogurt, her husband is the one that told us that she left. He was in the bathroom during the escape. It was one of stories for the week. 

[ClaraOswin]

1 hour ago, bingbangboom said:

My hospital L&D nurse encouraged lots of walking, using a birthing ball, taking showers, until I choose the drugs. 

Then, I was still allowed to move in my bed, but she wanted me somewhere I wouldn't fall. At that point I took a nap, and loved the drugs.

had no idea the epi had a button though, so just one starter dose for me. 

Drugs were worth being in my bed resting before forceps pulled my guy into the world. No pain, and was walking around pretty soon after.

do some hospitals really force women in beds?

At our hospital, once you get an epidural you have to stay in bed (since you're basically numb and can't walk.) Before that, however, you can walk, take a shower, take a bath (if your room has one), use a birthing ball, etc.

[Shadoewolf]

When I was in labor with my son they kept me in bed after they started pitocin, a few hours after my water broke and I'd shown no signs of labor starting. I wanted the birth ball and the shower but they wouldn't let me. I wanted to walk, told nope. I didn't have the epidural until my water had been broken for 9 hours.   But then 17 babies were born in a 4 hour period that same day. We figured it just meant they were too busy to monitor me properly if I was mobile. Made for a very long, rough, day and night.

[Denim Jumper]

I got one those "walking epidurals", so I was able to move as far as the cord reached. It wasn't much (maybe a 4 or 5 foot radius), but I just couldn't stand to just lay around, so it was a nice little morale booster.

[Marissap]

On April 14, 2016 at 0:12 AM, countressrascal said:

Not in this day and age-like you they just don't want someone to fall or wander off and get lost. Normal births for hospitals are a lost leader or break even service, because under federal law they can't turn away a mother in active labor. A number of these mother's don't give correct information and they can not collect from them, plus they can't require payment upon discharge. 

The only ones that required to be in bed are prisoners, brought by law enforcement or drug users. I had a mother that was high on heroin when she showed up and during labor she tried to meet her dealer and shot up, in that case she was under constant surveillance. But the best one-we had an active labor mom who decided that she wanted a frozen yogurt so she got on the elevator went to dinning room but the machine was closed so she tried to walk across the street to Circle K to see if they had a machine here is a women ready to deliver laying on the grass in front of the hospital crowning. All she could say was I want frozen yogurt, her husband is the one that told us that she left. He was in the bathroom during the escape. It was one of stories for the week. 

Omg the frozen yogurt story is hilarious. Having given birth twice honestly I can't even imagine a cravin for some thing so bad I would do that. She must have really really needed that yogurt!

[Feberin]

I had to be in bed for the first hour I think after arriving at the hospital so they could monitor and I think after so much time I had to return to the bed for more monitoring.  I had quick labors with my second and third so that only happened with my first.  Personally the biggest attraction of a home birth to me would be avoiding being in a car during labor.  It's so uncomfortable especially with my last when I was in the transition phase.  

[CTRLZero]

On ‎4‎/‎14‎/‎2016 at 11:12 PM, countressrascal said:

we had an active labor mom who decided that she wanted a frozen yogurt

Oh, this brought back a memory.  My neighbor started labor with her second child, and her husband (a truck driver) wouldn't be back in town for several hours, so she asked me to drive her to the hospital.  I was so nervous that I made a beeline to the hospital, but she spotted a coffee shop and begged me to stop and get a latte!  We almost had a fight because I refused to detour to get a coffee.  Luckily I was firm in my resolve to get her to the hospital, because she ended up getting an emergency C-section when the baby's leg popped out first (gah, I am so happy it didn't happen in my car in the drive-through line at the coffee shop).   Her husband made it in time for the delivery, and all's well that ends well. 

[iweartanktops]

On 4/8/2016 at 0:06 PM, NeverAFundie said:

I pulled up Tiffany's (the mother's) FB page, which shows a high school graduation date of 2005 and a cover photo with six different children.  Her profile photo is what I assume is a photo of her with her husband.  The husband's FB page displays marriage dates in 2006, and in 2010, both to Tiffany, although I think the 2010 date is the correct one.  The husband APPEARS to be older, and it is unclear of all six children are her biological children, although none of them looks markedly older than 10.  She has posts about change.org petitions relating to medical marijuana.  It appears they had another baby recently.  So, mom has six kids in 8-10 years.  But also supports medical mary jane...interesting.

I'm late reading this thread, but I want to comment on the part I bolded. I didn't actually see her posts, but I don't see the problem with her being pregnant and supporting medical Marijuana. I know plenty of people who support it and do not smoke or use. 

[NeverAFundie]

6 minutes ago, iweartanktops said:

I'm late reading this thread, but I want to comment on the part I bolded. I didn't actually see her posts, but I don't see the problem with her being pregnant and supporting medical Marijuana. I know plenty of people who support it and do not smoke or use. 

I don't see anything wrong or inconsistent about it, either.  I was (rather clumsily) trying to offer that up as possible evidence that Tiffany's family do not appear to be hyper conservative fundies (which I would have expected, given Venessa's background), because I have never encountered a fundie who supports medical marijuana.  (Full disclosure: someone I care very much about has a long history of growing medical marijuana.  Legalization of medical marijuana is not typically a political or social position taken by extremely conservative people, although I would LOVE to be proven wrong on a significant scale.)  Many apologies for being inartful in what I said.

[iweartanktops]

Just now, NeverAFundie said:

I don't see anything wrong or inconsistent about it, either.  I was (rather clumsily) trying to offer that up as possible evidence that Tiffany's family do not appear to be hyper conservative fundies (which I would have expected, given Venessa's background), because I have never encountered a fundie who supports medical marijuana.  (Full disclosure: someone I care very much about has a long history of growing medical marijuana.  Legalization of medical marijuana is not typically a political or social position taken by extremely conservative people, although I would LOVE to be proven wrong on a significant scale.)  Many apologies for being inartful in what I said.

Ah, this makes sense! I should have known what you meant. My apologies for being dense. Thanks for clarifying.

[Kleine Vampirin]

In Touch have picked up the story and comments from Tiffany Nance:

http://www.intouchweekly.com/posts/jill-duggar-midwife-complications-99467

[FakePigtails]

I wanted to bring this thread back up since we now have Jessa and Jill facing special circumstances with their next births and this thread has discussions of what was legal and who was legal when it came to their home birth options before.

From what I remember of recent discussions (someone please correct me if I'm wrong), it seems like Jessa isn't getting much prenatal care at all (no Dopplar until the 2nd trimester?) and we don't know what Jill's done yet but if she stays in AR she's supposed to give birth in a hospital. I think from the earlier discussions in this thread Jessa may be able to have a home birth in AR but she's supposed to at least consult with an OB at some point because of the hemorrhage she had before.

[RosyDaisy]

So, JD was the EMT who responded to the 911 call. I wonder what, if any, emergency treatment he administered to that baby. An EMT with a SOTDRT education. This was a perfect setup for disaster. That poor baby.

[nastyhobbitses]

Re home births: They sound awesome for people who qualify for it, but if I ever have kids, like hell I'm pooping and bleeding all over my own linens and upholstery, and I'm too scared to do something so risky away from a hospital. Drug me up and yank/scoop my hypothetical rugrat out.

[HarleyQuinn]

I'll be surprised if Jessa or Jill do ANY consulting with real doctors. The only factor is TLC. TLC could put their foot down and say "look, we won't shoot this (ie: pay you) unless you go to doctor" due to the laws, which they HAVE to be aware of . 

[grandmadugger]

17 hours ago, RosyDaisy said:

So, JD was the EMT who responded to the 911 call. I wonder what, if any, emergency treatment he administered to that baby. An EMT with a SOTDRT education. This was a perfect setup for disaster. That poor baby.

JD passed the EMT classes so his SOTDRT education wouldn't come into play. You are required to have a GED to sit for the class but it is a college class no matter where the class is held. The test isn't easy to pass and it is fairly common not to pass the first time out.  I get he had a sucky education growing up but that obviously didn't hinder him as much as it could have. He is no less capable than any other EMT. 

5 hours ago, HarleyQuinn said:

I'll be surprised if Jessa or Jill do ANY consulting with real doctors. The only factor is TLC. TLC could put their foot down and say "look, we won't shoot this (ie: pay you) unless you go to doctor" due to the laws, which they HAVE to be aware of . 

I think that's why we got cell phone video of the previous two births. 

[FakePigtails]

10 minutes ago, grandmadugger said:

I think that's why we got cell phone video of the previous two births. 

Still, at some point TLC's going to be at risk of losing the show if people get too pissed off at these decisions. Didn't it edge close to that with Jubilee? I think if Jill does a VBAC at home and it goes fine a decent number of people will be upset, and if she does a VBAC at home and there are complications people are going to be pissed at her, especially since in that case the lack of a real midwife would be much more publicized.

For Jessa, if I'm remember the law correctly it's not 100% a no on a home birth but it'll still look bad if she gets taken away in an ambulance for two births in a row. It's just not *as* appalling as what happened (and could happen) with Jill.

[Jana814]

I hope Jill gives birth in the hospital. As for Jessa I hope if she does give birth at home she dose not have any complications. 

[grandmadugger]

17 minutes ago, FakePigtails said:

Still, at some point TLC's going to be at risk of losing the show if people get too pissed off at these decisions. Didn't it edge close to that with Jubilee? I think if Jill does a VBAC at home and it goes fine a decent number of people will be upset, and if she does a VBAC at home and there are complications people are going to be pissed at her, especially since in that case the lack of a real midwife would be much more publicized.

For Jessa, if I'm remember the law correctly it's not 100% a no on a home birth but it'll still look bad if she gets taken away in an ambulance for two births in a row. It's just not *as* appalling as what happened (and could happen) with Jill.

Oh yeah I think at some point the public backlash is going to hit. I just think TLC has already had the conversation about safety but for whatever reason opted to use the cell phone video. I would like to see them put their foot down a little more. Like "Follow the law, see a doctor or there will be no birth special". The downside is I don't know if that is enough to wake them out.