Bringing Up Bates & Bates Family Doings: Part 2

[clueliss]

I'll take the loud, snarky, opinionated Bates girls over what JB and Michelle have done to Jana, Jinger, Joy and Hannie.

Jinger used to pull faces - no more.

Joy was a tomboy who played with her brothers - no more

Hannie who used to hang from things on their smaller bus is turning docile

and a few times I seem to remember Michelle comparing Hannie to Jana when she was little. Meaning once upon a time Jana was not the quiet, sweet, smiliing drone her parents have turned her into.

[HereticHick]

I am surprised to read that comment from Kelly's that Tori has 3 years of college to go. I thought that Tori had started taking Crown College classes at about age 16 and was on track to graduate next year! Kelly did say a while ago that she had changed her major (to education), though, so maybe that put her back a bit & she is still just going part time. Anyway, more power to her. Especially if that means she intends to delay marriage.

Good for Kelly for answering the courtship questions directly.

[ElegantMajesticPearls]

I was just looking at the instagram accounts of Alyssa and Erin. Both have pictures of themselves and various family members and one has a group shot that includes family + Erin + Alyssa (so they were obviously in the same place at the same time) but no pictures of the two of them showing their pregnant bellies. Jill (nee Dugger) had a photo of her and her brother's pregnant wife (whose name has slipped my mind) and lots of fundies with multiple pregnant siblings often have group shots of all the pregnant women so it seems like an odd omission to me. I don't follow this family closely so I might be missing something. Are these two not so close? Is there some drama or is this just that with 20 kids some just prefer other siblings?

I've noticed this also. Lots of pics of the girls with the younger siblings but none with each other. I don't recall them interacting on the tv show either. Its easy to make assumptions just based on social media and short tv clips though. It could mean nothing at all

[Kira]

Oh yeah, I forgot the rule....ALL fundies must be hated with a bloody blue passion. Not a single one of them have ANY redeeming value whatsoever...

sorry about that

That's not my rule. Read my comment history :shrug:

[nelliebelle1197]

I don't think the Bates have brainwashed FJ....I see it more like this.

You are working in an office and you happen to have some fundie coworkers, happy, happy, joy, joy....or you are a member of the town quilting bee, since yes I realize the cult would not be happy with woman folk working in an office

Would you rather have Kelly be sitting in the cube next to you (or stitching next to you) or Michelle? Would you rather work with Gil or Jim Bob?

Personally I would choose Kelly because when I worked in an office I liked going to lunch at Houlihans (I love their salads) and I think Kelly would probably go with me (especially if I offered to treat) and be capable of coworker chit chat...Michelle on the other hand would probably need to rehighlight her bible during lunch break or call Jana to make sure the kids were being as robotic as possible.

Go back a couple years and read some old posts. There are plenty of former members who never would have tolerated all the Bates love. I don't think that was so great, but I can see where some people are surprised at the lovefest

[nelliebelle1197]

This!

I guess some people here do not have any friends, family, or coworkers whose religious, political, or moral views vary from theirs in the slightest.

:worship: :wtf:

The Bates are not my friends, family or co workers. I am not obliged to be tolerant of anything about them. What the fuck right back at ya.

[HereticHick]

The Bates are not my friends, family or co workers. I am not obliged to be tolerant of anything about them. What the fuck right back at ya.

Nor is anyone on FJ obliged to lecture others about whether or not their perceived attitudes/opinions/musings meets some arbitrary threshold of intolerance.

[nelliebelle1197]

Nor is anyone on FJ obliged to lecture others about whether or not their perceived attitudes/opinions/musings meets some arbitrary threshold of intolerance.

Nope. Cuts both ways. No one is doing more than presenting a differing outlook, which is part and parcel of this board.That is not lecturing. The most recent lecturing I see comes from the poster above in the quote. THAT is a prime example of lecturing.

Bates Derangement Syndrome, however, does not tolerate differing views on the Bates. You must love the Bates and ignore the fact that they are likely more entrenched and awful as the Duggars, or you are intolerant. I like you a lot, HH, but I will never agree with your view on this (well, maybe, if new evidence presents itself. Should never say never!). Everyone should know by now I want to adopt the youngest boy and think Lawson is super cute in a redneck boy way that screams to my southern blood and makes me lose reason. It's not an either-or with most people who are more cautious about the Bates. It's just that the Bates love gets to be a little too much sometimes since it is rarely balanced with objectivity. Maybe it reminds me of the people who voted for Bush because they wanted to have a beer with him a little too much...

[tulip]

There could be a million legitimate reasons. Maybe she didn't want to be on camera. Maybe John's family had a conflicting event. Maybe she was feeling too ill to travel, etc.

That said, I get the impression that she doesn't really like her family. Don't get me wrong, I'm sure she loves them, but I increasingly think she wants nothing to do with that circus, and is making it clear that any contact will be on her terms.

Agree. Which is so strange... remember the TLC special "The Bates Family.. And Baby Makes 19"? Alyssa was heavily featured-- her 18th birthday, she got to be the only one to find out Jeb's sex, etc. To me, she seemed like the most involved and happy to be in the family. Here's the link to Part 1: youtube.com/watch?v=Ou-4cYQ-ma4

She did a complete 180. And IIRC, John proposed to her right around her 19th birthday, so there's only a year between when this was filmed and her engagement.

ETA: Oops.. He asked her to start courting right around her 19th birthday; it wasn't the proposal. Not much of a difference anyway, they were married 6 months later.

[JillyO]

Agree. Which is so strange... remember the TLC special "The Bates Family.. And Baby Makes 19"? Alyssa was heavily featured-- her 18th birthday, she got to be the only one to find out Jeb's sex, etc. To me, she seemed like the most involved and happy to be in the family. Here's the link to Part 1: youtube.com/watch?v=Ou-4cYQ-ma4

She did a complete 180. And IIRC, John proposed to her right around her 19th birthday, so there's only a year between when this was filmed and her engagement.

ETA: Oops.. He asked her to start courting right around her 19th birthday; it wasn't the proposal. Not much of a difference anyway, they were married 6 months later.

It was her 17th birthday in the episode. I still agree with your point though, she seems to have changed quite a bit within a pretty short time span.

[nokidsmom]

It was her 17th birthday in the episode. I still agree with your point though, she seems to have changed quite a bit within a pretty short time span.

She does seem to have changed in a short time. I am not sure what it is. Maybe she immediately saw what life could be like outside the family confines when she married but I suspect that it might have happened before that. Maybe she's always been a bit more independent minded but didn't display it.

[Georgiana]

Re: Alyssa

When she was in the family, she was very sheltered from the world. This means that she probably didn't realize all the things she missed out on. Yes, she worked in a flower shop so she knew some, but she probably didn't realize the extent of all the sacrifices that SHE was forced to make for HER PARENTS' lifestyle choice.

So there is a chance that she is dealing with things now that she wasn't dealing with before she left home. Maybe she's angry. Maybe she's not angry, exactly, but deeply hurt, confused, and upset at her parents/family. Maybe she's not any of those things, but just needs a little space from her family to figure things out on her own right now. ALL of those would be normal. And none of those mean that she doesn't love her family or wouldn't want to be more involved with her family later on. When I first went away to college, I contacted my family very rarely for the first year. By junior year when I was in China, I wrote them all the time. Some people need space at first. However, there have been comments made about Alyssa liking order that make me think that she never truly enjoyed the chaos of large family life or that it stressed her out. Some time away might help her tolerate it better.

Re: Tori, Carlin, Josie

I find them grating as well. However, I have a sister their age, and she does the exact same thing with the outspoken/rude/inappropriate comments. I probably did it at their age a few times. Finding where the tactful line is is DEFINITELY a learning process for some people.

However, doesn't mean they shouldn't be chewed out/criticized for it. I certainly give my sister a piece of my mind when she crosses the line. Because that is part of learning.

There IS a happy medium between the Duggar girls and the Bates girls where you can be outspoken, have sass/personality, and not be rude/inappropriate/tactless. It's not an either-or situation. You can criticize both.

[Coconut Flan]

Alyssa may not have known what she was missing until she visited with John's family or she may have seen something there that she wanted. She seems to get along well with his sisters. They're all ATI/IBLP but some of the families adopt less of the rules or put their own spin on things.

Then again, maybe she got into her own house with just the two of them and was surprisingly ecstatically happy at the quiet.

[nelliebelle1197]

Alyssa may not have known what she was missing until she visited with John's family or she may have seen something there that she wanted. She seems to get along well with his sisters. They're all ATI/IBLP but some of the families adopt less of the rules or put their own spin on things.

Then again, maybe she got into her own house with just the two of them and was surprisingly ecstatically happy at the quiet.

I also wonder if she realizes how much her mother took advantage of her. She was cooking for 20 people from who knows how young an age and seems to have been in charge of much around the house, rather like Michael who was the one who potty trained most of the younger kids.

[silverspoons]

Alyssa must remember the "Nabisco Days" ? before the poverty and tree trimming business? I have always wondered if any of the older kids wanted the more middle class more mainstream fundie-lite life the Bates first had?

[anjulibai]

Alyssa must remember the "Nabisco Days" ? before the poverty and tree trimming business? I have always wondered if any of the older kids wanted the more middle class more mainstream fundie-lite life the Bates first had?

Or that they observed their cousins' have. Both Gil's and Kelly's families of origin are conservative Christian to fundie-lite.

[19 cats and counting]

Re Alyssa

People change. In the last year I've had a major epiphany about something that's changed the direction of my life, career, etc. It affects the assignments I take and where I take them. It took food poisoning and illness to make me realize it but after that a lightbulb went off.

Perhaps John caused her to have one?

[nokidsmom]

Agree that Alyssa looks like she needs / wants space from her family right now. Whether she will be closer in the future remains to be seen. I can all the above reasons, remembering the days when Gil worked for Nabisco with a more middle class life, to see how other people's lives were (cousins, in laws), liking peace and quiet, perhaps realizing all she had to do for her parents (the cooking, help supporting the family) or a some other lightbulb went off. But whatever she decides how to interact with her family in the future, I suspect it's going to be on her own terms. I know Kelly talks about accepting her grown children's choices, but it would be interesting to see down the line how she really is about it. I don't think that parents that were that controlling are going to accept their grown children doing something different (note: not radical, just different) with just a "oh whatever". There's been to be some hand wringing, at least in private.

[HereticHick]

I think D-list celebrity status is going to Lawson's head. Every time I look at his Instagram, he's preening & looking manly for the fundy ladies. I think he's enjoying all the "oooh, you are so handsome, marry me" comments from the leghumpers.

In video clips his family has already basically said he's the vainest of the bunch.

Don't turn into an asshole, Lawson.

[quiversR4hunting]

Alyssa may not have known what she was missing until she visited with John's family or she may have seen something there that she wanted. She seems to get along well with his sisters. They're all ATI/IBLP but some of the families adopt less of the rules or put their own spin on things.

Then again, maybe she got into her own house with just the two of them and was surprisingly ecstatically happy at the quiet.

One of the episodes showed her on the couch with John at the mountain family home and she looked overwhelmed. I bet she is liking the quite at home. I know I enjoy the quite when everyone is out of the house and it's just me. I also enjoy when the entire family gets together (6 kids under age 12 and 7 adults) and then when everyone leaves - it is so nice just to be down to the 5 of us again.

I can't image the overstimulation that happens at the duggar and Bates homes (or any other family with double digit kids). I bet that is why some of the younger ones seem feral. They have been overstimulated since birth. I remember when my kids were babies when they were overstimulated it was horrible trying to get them to bed, these kids seem to have very little down time. I am not including Bible/worship, etc because that isn't their own downtime, I'm talking about alone* time to play legos or read a fiction book or just be quite and hear the sounds of nature- ability to shut off their brain and recharge or to think and process**.

*I know this isn't allowed because of accountability partners, blah blah blah.

**Thinking and processing probably isn't allowed because all must be cyborgs for gothard.

[formergothardite]

In the Bates' how(and maybe in the Duggar's) even if the kids do find a quiet spot to sit and relax, Gil and Kelly have cameras mounted all through their house so they can monitor all their children. Maybe they got used to it, but I know I would have a hard time relaxing if I knew that there could be somebody watching me.

[HereticHick]

Both the Duggars & Bates talk about how they are all nightowls, and the Duggars are famous for their inability to get out of bed at a decent hour. Are they all really so dim that they can't understand that this is due to the kids being constantly overstimulated?

[quiversR4hunting]

In the Bates' how(and maybe in the Duggar's) even if the kids do find a quiet spot to sit and relax, Gil and Kelly have cameras mounted all through their house so they can monitor all their children. Maybe they got used to it, but I know I would have a hard time relaxing if I knew that there could be somebody watching me.

WAIT. WHAT? :pink-shock: Are you serious? And it isn't for the TV show?

If it isn't for the TV show, that is wrong, very, very wrong. I think chaperones was a lack of trust but cameras in the house- these people have no, zilch, zippo, zero trust in their kids!

Both the Duggars & Bates talk about how they are all nightowls, and the Duggars are famous for their inability to get out of bed at a decent hour. Are they all really so dim that they can't understand that this is due to the kids being constantly overstimulated?

Yes, I think they are that dim. I don't think they know the first thing about child development.

[formergothardite]

When asked if they have any privacy, one girl responded, "Well, we do have privacy if we want it, but for the most part, it's like our way of life so we don't mind all of the loud noise."

The house is equipped with an intercom and camera system to keep track of where everyone is

abcnews.go.com/US/evangelical-bates-family-20-children/story?id=12648595&page=2

Kelly claims it is to keep track of if a kid is sneaking cookies. :roll:

[quiversR4hunting]

abcnews.go.com/US/evangelical-bates-family-20-children/story?id=12648595&page=2

Kelly claims it is to keep track of if a kid is sneaking cookies. :roll:

:angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

I can get behind the need for a driveway cam. I have friends that have this because you can't see the end of their driveway from the house. With these people being d list celebrities you may want to see who is watching your house but the other cameras?! :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead: :angry-banghead:

as for the part about the girls crying (in the above article) "don't make us have our own rooms" how many believe that was the kids projecting that is what their parents want for them?